**Official 2018-19 NFL Contract Controversy Week 5 Thread**

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PJFrylar

Senior member
Apr 17, 2016
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I lost by less than 2 with Goff on my bench last week versus Brees. I'm up by 55 with Brees against Thomas. I'll officially quit everything if I manage to lose this week.....
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,177
5,641
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I called it on the Chiefs-Jags game. Jags were sloppy on offense (although Chiefs D deserves some credit for that - and hopefully it gives Bortles flashbacks if they play them again in the playoffs). But I think it also highlights something - the Chiefs offense, even when it isn't playing to its potential, wears the hell out of defenses. And they have enough playmakers - and even the 2nd, 3rd and 4th receivers are good enough with Mahomes at QB - that you pretty much can't defend it and they're going to move the ball on you. Chiefs biggest problem is themselves. Lack of discipline (had I think 5 unsportsmanlike/unnecessary roughness calls, two of their best players got ejected; Hunt will probably get fined again). Receivers still occasionally drop passes. Mahomes was too loose with his throws (2 INTs, but this and the Denver game he hasn't been consistently hitting guys in stride although he did have his usual several plays where you just laugh and shake your head at what he's capable of - he flicked his wrist and threw a gorgeous pass perfectly positioned for like 20 yards and a first down; I also don't like how many hits he takes although it doesn't seem to rattle him too much but there was one that looked similar to the play that Jimmy Garoppolo got injured on where he was fighting to stay in bounds instead of just sliding or going out). But even the Jags won't make excuses and said the Chiefs offense just dragged them all over the field. Ramsey mostly got the better of Tyreek but Romo was pointing out that he clearly was getting winded towards the end of the game (and it was around that time that Mahomes hit Tyreek for a 30 something yard pass on Ramsey, that could've been a TD but it was a little too close to the sideline for him to be able to keep his balance and stay in). This game was close to being a big blowout, and Chiefs can't be giving the other team opportunities to stay in and come back in the playoffs. At least the defense was tackling this game (still had too many wide open catches and big runs, but much less missed tackles - although they let Bortles run a TD in which some of that was probably not wanting to get a penalty). But they held them twice (on downs) inside the Red Zone. Chiefs had some injuries that won't help (right guard broke his leg, Justin Houston left before half time). Berry is doing more (still hasn't practiced yet) and his injury sounds like its going to perpetually bother him (grew a bone spur on his heel, supposedly he can get surgery to shave the bone to try and help with discomfort/pain, but I think it'll grow back again).

Chiefs could still possibly trade for Earl Thomas since he could come back this season. But I highly doubt it. Sounds like the Seahawks will probably franchise him and make a team give up a 1st round pick to get him, so they have no reason to accept less during the season (and the Chiefs would be more desperate to get his help hoping to make a Super Bowl run this season, so the Seahawks would have leverage, oh and they play each other in the 2nd to last week I think, so that game could have playoff implications). Some Chiefs fans now trying to make a fuss about they should trade for Landon Collins of the Giants.

I don't care what Cousin's stats are. The dude put up stats the past 3 years as the Redskins starter and in the end he didn't do shit and he really can't be trusted when the game is on the line. I'd actually say he's at his best when his team has the lead. He's good at helping keep a lead but while he does have some game winning drives, i would not trust him with the game on the line more times than not.

He's nothing more than a guy who can move the ball between the redzone then he has issues. He had that issue on the Skins and has it in Minnesota. He will put up huge numbers but in the end he won't help the team do much.

I saw this stat like 5 minutes ago:



You know what his record is over the past 4 games? 1-2-1. And it SHOULD be 1-3 if the worst RFP call in the history of the NFL wasn't made in the GB game.

I want to laugh as every post where you talk about Cousins, you perfectly describe Alex Smith. Granted, I haven't seen you defend Smith, so maybe you realize that. I'm still baffled that they could've had Cousins locked up (so none of that offseason drama for the 3 years there), cheaper for those two years (plus probably cheaper than Alex Smith is for them now), not have had to give up Fuller (who was really liked on the team) and the other pick, and Cousins is younger (which when they're roughly equal, you go for the younger guy most of the time). Plus if he kept playing like he was, and they were able to find their QBotF, they could've traded Cousins instead of see him walk after balking over his contract wants but paying him what $45 million for 2 seasons? Granted, at the point they let Cousins walk and made the Alex Smith trade, they couldn't undue their incredibly poor handling of Cousins, but it just amazes me how badly the Redskins front office and management/ownership can screw up like every situation. But then maybe the Redskins being stuck with Smith now is why you're mad at Cousins? Like a reverse of the 49ers fans that loved Smith because they got stuck with Kaepernick, even though Smith wasn't going to win them jack shit, especially after Harbaugh was gone.

Its possible, though not likely, Brady is juicing. Its is interesting as this guy is slowing no sign of slowing down, which is why people expect an sharp and steep decline when it happens.

But I think rapid decline can be a sign of a player no longer roiding as well.

I don't really expect a steep decline, because I think Brady will retire before that really shows and I think Belichick wouldn't put him out there. And I think he's doing something to make sure that happens on his terms. That we haven't seen much consistent sign of his physical skills declining, and in fact, it seems like every time people start to question it, he gets a "second wind" and plays like him from a decade earlier. That is not natural.

Eh Brady is clearly showing signs of slowing down, it's just that with the play calling and stuff it's hard to see. He gets rid of the ball so damn quick that he rarely has to move out of the pocket. That is just a sign of the amazing coaching in the organization. But I remember seeing a play on TNF where he scrambled (it may have been a week or two ago in all honesty I don't remember exaclty which game) where he looked like he was moving in slow motion. When he runs he looks like a 40 year old running. Also, he's not throwing deep balls very often anymore either, which again, is probably by design at this point. The one bomb he threw to Josh Gordon the other night was not a spectacular throw by any means, it was a 50/50 ball that Gordon came down with.

Yes, and people have said that before only for him to go on a tear and make people eat crow. He's always been slow and awkward when running. Which that's also part of my argument. You guys seem to think juicing is only about stuff like that. Its not. That's like the people that kept arguing that certain baseball players weren't using PEDs because they didn't put on mass like Bonds and some of the others did. There's more to it than that. And I think you guys are ignoring how much it helped Manning. Go back and look at what was being said about his throwing in those private sessions before he actually signed with the Broncos. He was fucking done, until he started on HGH and who knows what all. His neck was good enough to play due to the stem cell treatments, but the rest of his body was not so he had to do that stuff just to play. And it helped him play possibly better than he had ever before.

He's not throwing deep balls because who is he going to throw them too? Gronk is almost perpetually injured, they haven't had a deep threat this year til Gordon (who just started playing, which that he's already out there is telling how desperate they are to get a legitimate deep threat because they're not prone to pushing guys out before they learn the offense pretty well - which I doubt Gordon has had time to yet) since they let the others ones that could've offered that either walk or traded them. And it'll take time for them to get their offense clicking.

I remember people saying he was showing clear signs of decline 4 years ago when the Chiefs kicked the shit out of the Patriots (the one where they put Jimmy in for like the last like 10 minutes and marched them down and scored a TD). People started wondering about them going with him over Brady, and it clearly bothered Brady because he got ownership to make Belichick - yes Bill Belichick, after 5 Super Bowl wins and 7 appearances and nearly perpetual AFC Championship appearances - trade Jimmy. Brady played so bad that people asked if he was done, right then and there, like it happened all of a sudden, almost overnight even. And he's been as good if not better (considering the talent he's had around him) in the years since then. That isn't normal. Only two players I can think of that were anything like that are Manning (who I guarantee juiced) and maybe Favre (although Favre had gotten really inconsistent as his career went on, two of his final 4 years were some of his better ones).

Minnesota is 2-2-1 and they have had defensive lapses this year that were unexpected. Maybe Cousins isn't all he's cracked up to be, but I don't think he coughed up 31 points to the Buffalo offense a few weeks ago.

Its hard for me to accept people putting the Vikings' record on Cousins. He's played quite well (pretty much up to expectations). Their defense has not played the same and I think their running game has declined (although I don't know that it was spectacular last season, it sounded like it was worse this year). Considering they played the Rams when the Rams were hitting on all cylinders and actually hung with them some, even though the defense wasn't playing like it used to. Even the great ones take time to acclimate to a new team, but Cousins has played well enough. It too is entirely possible that he'll hit his ceiling and not be much better or that he'll bounce off his ceiling already and get worse. If the defense was playing like it was last year, it wouldn't be a problem, but it isn't. Maybe they played above themselves (nothing drastically mind you, but they made the NFC Championship on a miracle play), and so they were naturally going to taper off a bit. It happens. But that's not on Cousins. And the Vikings didn't really have much chance at a better option or even taking a risk in the hope they get one like drafting one of the 4 QBs that went in the 1st round, so they made the right move, especially after seeing Keenum in Denver (better than earlier in his career but not as good as last year).

Correct, so any talk of "juicing" is nonsense. Who would risk that with the $$ he's worth and a reputation he spent the last 18 years making.

People said the same thing about Lance Armstrong and a lot of other athletes that eventually got nailed on it. You would be ignoring that without that stuff, Brady might never be the player with that reputation, so he risked it to get it. That's why they do it, because it makes them demigods and if they don't get caught people will gladly not even think about it (or even be very aggressive in defending them against it, remember how people used to defend Lance Armstrong; they did the same thing when the Manning stuff came out and I bet you they'd do the same thing for Brady). If they get caught they can trot out any number of excuses or, just apologize and be graceful about it (which will win people over). I think its prevalent in all high level sports (and a lot of lower level ones too - its not uncommon in high school football), and I think when someone is that popular and important to a billion dollar team and league, that they'll be more than happy to look the other way. I don't think he's juicing in the traditional sense either (so he could easily pass the testing), which is why I think a lot of people will say no way. He's not looking for strength and he's not going to suddenly show up jacked and playing like Cam Newton or Tebow, he's looking for recovery and stamina (which is why I mentioned stuff like the blood doping that the cyclists were doing).

Plus, uh, he was willing to put that in jeopardy over the inflate-gate stuff (I'm pointing to his actions when the NFL was investigating). Like with the spygate stuff, they weren't the only ones doing it, and its kinda just one of those unspoken things, and so the NFL isn't super keen on being really transparent or thorough and having it revealed as it'll hurt them. Steroids used to be that way in the NFL, so its hardly unprecedented. Its also in the NFL's interest for players to do this type of stuff so that they don't end up broken husks of themselves when they're 50-60, like so many of the old players did.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,676
43,926
136


Back when he signed his contract he said they'd give it to Lynch at the 1 yard line instead of throwing, yesterday he threw one of the weakest interceptions from the 1 yard line i've seen in a while



 
Reactions: purbeast0

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
Really hope the Redskins can pull it out tonight. As much better than the Redskins as the Saints have been historically over the past decade or so, the Redskins are actually 4-2 the past 6 meetings, and SHOULD have been 5-1 if they didn't have a monumental collapse and lose the game with a 15 point lead and 5 minutes left in the game.

But historically too, the Redskins suck in primetime. They also historically suck coming off of a bye week. So there is that working against them too. With the trifecta happening yesterday and all other NFCE teams losing, this could be a pretty big win for them if they get it. Win or lose though, they will be in #1 spot in NFCE after tonight, which isn't really saying much 5 weeks in.
 
Jun 18, 2000
11,140
722
126
Prescott and Watson are both mediocre quarterbacks. The media is quick to crown these guys when they have a fast start to their career.

I saw this somewhere thought it was odd. Through 5 games, the Browns have covered all possible game outcomes -- 1 tie, 1 OT loss, 1 OT win, 1 reg time loss, 1 reg time win.
 

Bubblehappy

Senior member
Aug 14, 2010
521
29
91
Prescott and Watson are both mediocre quarterbacks. The media is quick to crown these guys when they have a fast start to their career.

I saw this somewhere thought it was odd. Through 5 games, the Browns have covered all possible game outcomes -- 1 tie, 1 OT loss, 1 OT win, 1 reg time loss, 1 reg time win.

The Texan's offense did a good job of making the Cowboy's defense look like stars last night. Elliott is dinged up more than it was led to believe, our O-Line is no where as good as the media would have you think, and Dak is looking pedestrian at best. I'm so disgusted with Jerry and Jason right now that I'm seriously considering becoming a non-fan after 40+ years. Freaking #1 franchise in the league in terms of revenue, yet you can't manage or coach a team to a Superbowl appearance in over 20 years now.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,354
11,725
136
I don't like either team, but last night's Dallas/Houston game was perhaps the best game I’ve seen this season. A real knife fight right to the end of OT.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
I don't like either team, but last night's Dallas/Houston game was perhaps the best game I’ve seen this season. A real knife fight right to the end of OT.
I'm guessing you have only watched 1 game this season then, because that game was pretty damn crappy and sloppy all around, from the coaching to the performances.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,612
3,458
136
Hawks kept it a lot closer than I thought. Good to see Wilson scrambling more and the D improving. Glad to see their blocking/running improving too, Carson was en fuego.

If they stick with the same game plan the rest of the season they'll start racking up wins.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
The Panthers have a significant audience in South America, after all Rivera is the only Latino HC in the league so these guys do the South American game broadcast. Here is their reaction to the winning 63yrd FG,
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,032
752
136
It's week 5 and the Bills beat the Titans by 1 point and the Browns beat the Ravens with an OT field goal.

The last time the Bills and Browns won on the same day was 3 years ago...when it was week 5, and the Bills beat the Titans by 1 point and the Browns beat the Ravens with an OT field goal.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
I called it on the Chiefs-Jags game. Jags were sloppy on offense (although Chiefs D deserves some credit for that - and hopefully it gives Bortles flashbacks if they play them again in the playoffs). But I think it also highlights something - the Chiefs offense, even when it isn't playing to its potential, wears the hell out of defenses. And they have enough playmakers - and even the 2nd, 3rd and 4th receivers are good enough with Mahomes at QB - that you pretty much can't defend it and they're going to move the ball on you. Chiefs biggest problem is themselves. Lack of discipline (had I think 5 unsportsmanlike/unnecessary roughness calls, two of their best players got ejected; Hunt will probably get fined again). Receivers still occasionally drop passes. Mahomes was too loose with his throws (2 INTs, but this and the Denver game he hasn't been consistently hitting guys in stride although he did have his usual several plays where you just laugh and shake your head at what he's capable of - he flicked his wrist and threw a gorgeous pass perfectly positioned for like 20 yards and a first down; I also don't like how many hits he takes although it doesn't seem to rattle him too much but there was one that looked similar to the play that Jimmy Garoppolo got injured on where he was fighting to stay in bounds instead of just sliding or going out). But even the Jags won't make excuses and said the Chiefs offense just dragged them all over the field. Ramsey mostly got the better of Tyreek but Romo was pointing out that he clearly was getting winded towards the end of the game (and it was around that time that Mahomes hit Tyreek for a 30 something yard pass on Ramsey, that could've been a TD but it was a little too close to the sideline for him to be able to keep his balance and stay in). This game was close to being a big blowout, and Chiefs can't be giving the other team opportunities to stay in and come back in the playoffs. At least the defense was tackling this game (still had too many wide open catches and big runs, but much less missed tackles - although they let Bortles run a TD in which some of that was probably not wanting to get a penalty). But they held them twice (on downs) inside the Red Zone. Chiefs had some injuries that won't help (right guard broke his leg, Justin Houston left before half time). Berry is doing more (still hasn't practiced yet) and his injury sounds like its going to perpetually bother him (grew a bone spur on his heel, supposedly he can get surgery to shave the bone to try and help with discomfort/pain, but I think it'll grow back again).

Chiefs could still possibly trade for Earl Thomas since he could come back this season. But I highly doubt it. Sounds like the Seahawks will probably franchise him and make a team give up a 1st round pick to get him, so they have no reason to accept less during the season (and the Chiefs would be more desperate to get his help hoping to make a Super Bowl run this season, so the Seahawks would have leverage, oh and they play each other in the 2nd to last week I think, so that game could have playoff implications). Some Chiefs fans now trying to make a fuss about they should trade for Landon Collins of the Giants.



I want to laugh as every post where you talk about Cousins, you perfectly describe Alex Smith. Granted, I haven't seen you defend Smith, so maybe you realize that. I'm still baffled that they could've had Cousins locked up (so none of that offseason drama for the 3 years there), cheaper for those two years (plus probably cheaper than Alex Smith is for them now), not have had to give up Fuller (who was really liked on the team) and the other pick, and Cousins is younger (which when they're roughly equal, you go for the younger guy most of the time). Plus if he kept playing like he was, and they were able to find their QBotF, they could've traded Cousins instead of see him walk after balking over his contract wants but paying him what $45 million for 2 seasons? Granted, at the point they let Cousins walk and made the Alex Smith trade, they couldn't undue their incredibly poor handling of Cousins, but it just amazes me how badly the Redskins front office and management/ownership can screw up like every situation. But then maybe the Redskins being stuck with Smith now is why you're mad at Cousins? Like a reverse of the 49ers fans that loved Smith because they got stuck with Kaepernick, even though Smith wasn't going to win them jack shit, especially after Harbaugh was gone.



I don't really expect a steep decline, because I think Brady will retire before that really shows and I think Belichick wouldn't put him out there. And I think he's doing something to make sure that happens on his terms. That we haven't seen much consistent sign of his physical skills declining, and in fact, it seems like every time people start to question it, he gets a "second wind" and plays like him from a decade earlier. That is not natural.



Yes, and people have said that before only for him to go on a tear and make people eat crow. He's always been slow and awkward when running. Which that's also part of my argument. You guys seem to think juicing is only about stuff like that. Its not. That's like the people that kept arguing that certain baseball players weren't using PEDs because they didn't put on mass like Bonds and some of the others did. There's more to it than that. And I think you guys are ignoring how much it helped Manning. Go back and look at what was being said about his throwing in those private sessions before he actually signed with the Broncos. He was fucking done, until he started on HGH and who knows what all. His neck was good enough to play due to the stem cell treatments, but the rest of his body was not so he had to do that stuff just to play. And it helped him play possibly better than he had ever before.

He's not throwing deep balls because who is he going to throw them too? Gronk is almost perpetually injured, they haven't had a deep threat this year til Gordon (who just started playing, which that he's already out there is telling how desperate they are to get a legitimate deep threat because they're not prone to pushing guys out before they learn the offense pretty well - which I doubt Gordon has had time to yet) since they let the others ones that could've offered that either walk or traded them. And it'll take time for them to get their offense clicking.

I remember people saying he was showing clear signs of decline 4 years ago when the Chiefs kicked the shit out of the Patriots (the one where they put Jimmy in for like the last like 10 minutes and marched them down and scored a TD). People started wondering about them going with him over Brady, and it clearly bothered Brady because he got ownership to make Belichick - yes Bill Belichick, after 5 Super Bowl wins and 7 appearances and nearly perpetual AFC Championship appearances - trade Jimmy. Brady played so bad that people asked if he was done, right then and there, like it happened all of a sudden, almost overnight even. And he's been as good if not better (considering the talent he's had around him) in the years since then. That isn't normal. Only two players I can think of that were anything like that are Manning (who I guarantee juiced) and maybe Favre (although Favre had gotten really inconsistent as his career went on, two of his final 4 years were some of his better ones).



Its hard for me to accept people putting the Vikings' record on Cousins. He's played quite well (pretty much up to expectations). Their defense has not played the same and I think their running game has declined (although I don't know that it was spectacular last season, it sounded like it was worse this year). Considering they played the Rams when the Rams were hitting on all cylinders and actually hung with them some, even though the defense wasn't playing like it used to. Even the great ones take time to acclimate to a new team, but Cousins has played well enough. It too is entirely possible that he'll hit his ceiling and not be much better or that he'll bounce off his ceiling already and get worse. If the defense was playing like it was last year, it wouldn't be a problem, but it isn't. Maybe they played above themselves (nothing drastically mind you, but they made the NFC Championship on a miracle play), and so they were naturally going to taper off a bit. It happens. But that's not on Cousins. And the Vikings didn't really have much chance at a better option or even taking a risk in the hope they get one like drafting one of the 4 QBs that went in the 1st round, so they made the right move, especially after seeing Keenum in Denver (better than earlier in his career but not as good as last year).



People said the same thing about Lance Armstrong and a lot of other athletes that eventually got nailed on it. You would be ignoring that without that stuff, Brady might never be the player with that reputation, so he risked it to get it. That's why they do it, because it makes them demigods and if they don't get caught people will gladly not even think about it (or even be very aggressive in defending them against it, remember how people used to defend Lance Armstrong; they did the same thing when the Manning stuff came out and I bet you they'd do the same thing for Brady). If they get caught they can trot out any number of excuses or, just apologize and be graceful about it (which will win people over). I think its prevalent in all high level sports (and a lot of lower level ones too - its not uncommon in high school football), and I think when someone is that popular and important to a billion dollar team and league, that they'll be more than happy to look the other way. I don't think he's juicing in the traditional sense either (so he could easily pass the testing), which is why I think a lot of people will say no way. He's not looking for strength and he's not going to suddenly show up jacked and playing like Cam Newton or Tebow, he's looking for recovery and stamina (which is why I mentioned stuff like the blood doping that the cyclists were doing).

Plus, uh, he was willing to put that in jeopardy over the inflate-gate stuff (I'm pointing to his actions when the NFL was investigating). Like with the spygate stuff, they weren't the only ones doing it, and its kinda just one of those unspoken things, and so the NFL isn't super keen on being really transparent or thorough and having it revealed as it'll hurt them. Steroids used to be that way in the NFL, so its hardly unprecedented. Its also in the NFL's interest for players to do this type of stuff so that they don't end up broken husks of themselves when they're 50-60, like so many of the old players did.

Sorry, you can't compare possible tweaking of 1/2PSI out of a ball to ingesting steroids, one is considered gamesmanship at worst, the other flat out cheating. Unlike LA, Brady is not involved in an endurance sport trying to remain king over 22yr old's, all he has to do is accurately dissect a defense and deliver the ball. He never could run worth a damm so it was never expected he'd be running for many 1st downs anyway. And Manning's neck injury was serious so it's possible he did use HGH to get it healed faster and come back stronger, Brady has faced one serious injury, a torn ACL in 2008, your thinking he's "juicing" is speculation and nothing more. Unless evidence comes out to suggest otherwise I'd give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Ajayi torn ACL and out for the season.
Wow, this will have a huge negative effect on an already sputtering Philly offense. They have yet to top 23 points in any game yet and the O-line is not performing at last years level either, Wentz has taken quite a beating already.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
It's week 5 and the Bills beat the Titans by 1 point and the Browns beat the Ravens with an OT field goal.

The last time the Bills and Browns won on the same day was 3 years ago...when it was week 5, and the Bills beat the Titans by 1 point and the Browns beat the Ravens with an OT field goal.
Bills are tough to figure out this year, they swing from gritty + tough to crappy week to week.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,429
3,533
126
Gj Redskins D. Get some stops but screw yourselves over with dumbass penalties
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Man, NFC East got bodied this week, and the Redskins are absolutely getting curb stomped by Brees. Hell of a QB.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
Good stuff. Not a fan of the way the Saints D looks though. It's not over until the players are back home
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Lol I can't look away from this game.

Stop, stop, he's already dead.gif
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
Yeesh, Washington is not having a good night. I like Cousins, I hope he picks up a ring at some point.
 
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