***Official*** 2018 Stock Market Thread

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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,309
2,100
126
Interest rates are still very, very low on a historical basis. I've heard some speculation that lower interest rates might be the norm for today's economy, and judging by historical rates isn't appropriate, but that's unproven.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS

This is what makes a market, differences of opinion. We are already 10% off the highs. Another 10% over the next 10 months and viola - bear market.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,585
2,949
136
Mmmm, not exactly. New unemployment claims do not need to drop to indicate a strong labor market. In fact, anything under 300,000 is traditionally considered strong, 224.5 is insanely strong.

But that's the traditional wisdom, and I often wonder how much it applies now that we have so many contract workers that are not eligible for unemployment. Compounding that is the fact that most firms will let those workers go first, so not only do that not show up in new unemployment claims, but they actively mask what's going on in the labor market. I don't think the report moves the market too much, there's just too much volatility in it, although I think it's fair to say that if that number starts to spike, that's probably the first indication that our 10 year economic expansion is in some trouble.
Historically, employment is a lagging indicator. So much so that it's almost counter-cyclical. But that's a very good point about the so-called 'gig' economy. The next recession when it hits is going to hit hard and fast but we're not there yet.

There's still plenty of liquidity. It's just that the fed, for whatever reason, decided to spook the market by selling $20B in assets essentially at one time at the end of January rather than spreading it out like they normally do. That was just stupid and I think it probably caused some short term aberrations. I wish I understood this stuff better to know what the exact mechanics were, but I'd bet anything that the recent bloodbath had more to do with a liquidity squeeze than any actual concern about interest rates spiking.

Besides, having the 30 year go up a few basis points isn't a spike. The shorter maturies have gone up significantly over the past year and commercial lending has plateaued, but the consumer sector is still quite lively. Mortgage lending is also still on a 45 degree trajectory. So things are slowing down and that's fine but it isn't like anyone is slamming on the brakes.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
weird that i agree with felix for once - we are headed for a bear market. I've closed my long positions and am now going 70% cash with the other 30% being about 50/50 short calls and long calls
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
No one is getting into big pharma?

Diabities and depression. are going to be two HUGE issues in the near future. Bad for the nation but good for stockholders. Hey, it's the truth. In 10 years many people are going to have type 2 diabities. 1/4 Americans. Especially young people. Many are going to be on diabities meds for life. And, as many more countries adopt the Western diet, many are going to come down with type 2.

Depression is going to increase as well. Especially with automation and the loss of jobs. A person on depression meds could be on them for many decades. Worldwide as well.

I'm just currently looking at trends. I don't like the fact that many people are going to suffer from diabities and depression. But, from a stockholders perspective my guess is this is what they want. Am I correct?

Do you guys have the same thoughts?

Diabities stocks: https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/11/27/3-top-diabetes-stocks-to-buy-now.aspx

I look at this like the big housing crash from 10 years ago.

The people with the money made out and bought the homes from the people who got evicted. That's just the way it works. It seems that the people with the money prey on the masses.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
No one is getting into big pharma?

Diabities and depression. are going to be two HUGE issues in the near future. Bad for the nation but good for stockholders. Hey, it's the truth. In 10 years many people are going to have type 2 diabities. 1/4 Americans. Especially young people. Many are going to be on diabities meds for life. And, as many more countries adopt the Western diet, many are going to come down with type 2.

Depression is going to increase as well. Especially with automation and the loss of jobs. A person on depression meds could be on them for many decades. Worldwide as well.

I'm just currently looking at trends. I don't like the fact that many people are going to suffer from diabities and depression. But, from a stockholders perspective my guess is this is what they want. Am I correct?

Do you guys have the same thoughts?

Diabities stocks: https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/11/27/3-top-diabetes-stocks-to-buy-now.aspx

I look at this like the big housing crash from 10 years ago.

The people with the money made out and bought the homes from the people who got evicted. That's just the way it works. It seems that the people with the money prey on the masses.

I've been looking into ABT lately. I'm currently pretty heavy into BMY which has been lackluster overall but it has a nice dividend. However keep in mind that Trump has been bashing big pharma lately and keeping the stock prices down. It's really tough to say if any actual policies will go in place or not, and then there is Amazon who's making waves lately about pharma. Granted I haven't dug into diabetes specific info so I don't know if that impacts the others or not.
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,543
488
96
I've been tracking SUPN. Seems very undervalued.

I'm drowning in Micron and can't make any moves right now but that should resolve itself soon.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
Avoid big pharma in 2018 because:

Cant believe this but Trump is trying to save $ by reducing drug costs on Medicare.
maybe hell wont freeze over before Trump over turns rule that Medicare cant competitive pricing on drugs.

Amazon and Warren Buffet is trying to come out with a sensible way to reduce/reform health costs
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,077
136
Avoid big pharma in 2018 because:

Cant believe this but Trump is trying to save $ by reducing drug costs on Medicare.
maybe hell wont freeze over before Trump over turns rule that Medicare cant competitive pricing on drugs.

Amazon and Warren Buffet is trying to come out with a sensible way to reduce/reform health costs
I think it's somewhat laughable that there's this hero worship of Bezos and Buffet and somehow they're just a particular brand of genius that can fix Healthcare. As if no one with brains has been trying. I would be thrilled to eat my words, thrilled, but I don't see it happening. This is just Healthcare outsiders thinking "Amazon is awesome! Amazon Healthcare? Awesomer!"
 

turtile

Senior member
Aug 19, 2014
618
296
136
I think it's somewhat laughable that there's this hero worship of Bezos and Buffet and somehow they're just a particular brand of genius that can fix Healthcare. As if no one with brains has been trying. I would be thrilled to eat my words, thrilled, but I don't see it happening. This is just Healthcare outsiders thinking "Amazon is awesome! Amazon Healthcare? Awesomer!"

It looks like they are just saving costs for their own companies...
 
Reactions: DietDrThunder

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,631
126
As if no one with brains has been trying. I would be thrilled to eat my words, thrilled, but I don't see it happening.
Could you please elaborate on this point? Who, with power not just brains, has actually been trying to reduce costs in the health care system?

Americans don't visit the doctor often enough, turning minor issues into major expensive problems. For example, in Japan the average person visits the doctor 13.1 times per year vs 4.1 visits/year in the US. This is a structural issue since people on hourly work often can't afford to take time off of work and those on salaries find it hard to get the time off. But also, a cost issue. Many Americans can't afford to pay the deductibles and/or copays. And finally it is a trust issue: with doctors spending maybe 5 minutes max with many patients, the patients just don't feel that their concerns and needs are being addressed.

All of those problems could be solved by having more medical schools. More doctors would mean more time with each patient (building trust), less cost per doctor visit (less barrier to see a doctor), and more flexible hours to see a doctor (so you don't have to go during work hours). Who, with brains and power is actually proposing new medical schools? And equally importantly, removing the useless but very expensive requirement for a bachelor's degree to get into medical schools.

Also, the same exact work in the US is far more expensive than the rest of the world. A bypass surgery in the US costs $73k but only $14k in the United Kingdom. Results are the same, but one costs 5x more. We need more doctors and more hospitals to drive down the costs. Who is proposing this? We have similar issues with drug costs that are sky high compared to the rest of the world. Who is honestly changing the patent system, pharmaceutical company profit incentives, and negotiation powers to allow profitable development of new drugs that don't cost $100k/year or more?

All I see is people actually discussing are distractions. Distractions such as of insurance changes or minor cross-border agreements or items with minimal costs compared to the grand scale of the healthcare system (such as tort reform).
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,077
136
Could you please elaborate on this point? Who, with power not just brains, has actually been trying to reduce costs in the health care system?

Americans don't visit the doctor often enough, turning minor issues into major expensive problems. For example, in Japan the average person visits the doctor 13.1 times per year vs 4.1 visits/year in the US. This is a structural issue since people on hourly work often can't afford to take time off of work and those on salaries find it hard to get the time off. But also, a cost issue. Many Americans can't afford to pay the deductibles and/or copays. And finally it is a trust issue: with doctors spending maybe 5 minutes max with many patients, the patients just don't feel that their concerns and needs are being addressed.

All of those problems could be solved by having more medical schools. More doctors would mean more time with each patient (building trust), less cost per doctor visit (less barrier to see a doctor), and more flexible hours to see a doctor (so you don't have to go during work hours). Who, with brains and power is actually proposing new medical schools? And equally importantly, removing the useless but very expensive requirement for a bachelor's degree to get into medical schools.

Also, the same exact work in the US is far more expensive than the rest of the world. A bypass surgery in the US costs $73k but only $14k in the United Kingdom. Results are the same, but one costs 5x more. We need more doctors and more hospitals to drive down the costs. Who is proposing this? We have similar issues with drug costs that are sky high compared to the rest of the world. Who is honestly changing the patent system, pharmaceutical company profit incentives, and negotiation powers to allow profitable development of new drugs that don't cost $100k/year or more?

All I see is people actually discussing are distractions. Distractions such as of insurance changes or minor cross-border agreements or items with minimal costs compared to the grand scale of the healthcare system (such as tort reform).

I suppose you make a good point with regard to power when it comes to policy. Power, in this country, comes in the form of money and the money is with the businessmen at the heads of Pharma, Insurance, Medical Supply, etc. and they certainly don't want to shed the excess costs in healthcare as they reap the benefits. What I should have said is that there are people who are trying, tirelessly, to make positive change and they have the most power they can get below the real movers and shakers who are business executives - and until that hierarchy changes, it won't happen. Like many other areas of much needed reform, I don't see REAL healthcare reform coming until there is either a fundamental change in societal norms, voting patterns, or campaign finance reform. Bezos may be great, but he isn't going to singlehandedly muscle the entire health insurance industry. Sure, he can make things within his own business better.

We don't actually need more medical schools. There are plenty of medical students. What we need more is funded graduate medical education (comes from CMS and is limited, although ACA did make some improvements) spots. The bottleneck isn't medical schools as much as it is GME. Also, calling a bachelor's degree "useless" as a barrier to entry for medical school is a bit hyperbolic, no? Sure, there could be a more focused undergraduate educational course (perhaps a 3 year plan rather than 4), but there is also a lot to undergraduate education that is a very positive thing before medical school.

In the current climate, increasing the number of doctors has no correlation with increased time with the patient. An additional provider just means another "worker bee" to see patients to administration. I have never seen additional providers mean more time with patients either on the inpatient or outpatient side - it simply means another opportunity to expand volume. No physician wants to spend 5-15 minutes with a patient, but that's what the administrators dictate, so there it is.

I absolutely agree with massive pharmaceutical and medical device reform - what sense does it make to have private industry making massive profits on the backs of the American taxpayers?

I would love to see a fundamental change to the way we deliver healthcare, but it involves a complete change in perspective - not more medical schools or less bachelor's degrees. For profit/free market just won't get it done. In this country we have a habit or privatizing profits and socializing losses; no where is this more evident than in healthcare. It's a complete disaster ... but Bezos and Buffet, unfortunately (as much as I love them), aren't the white knights who are going to save the day.
 

DietDrThunder

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,262
326
126
Very happy today so far.

Between Friday and today I've gained back just about half of pre-correction.
Same here but I expect the market to yo-yo for some time to come. Right now I'm playing the Nvidia buy/sell game. When it is up I sell, when it falls again I buy. I made $6K in the past 8 trading days just on Nvidia. I sold on Friday so at some point today I will buy again. Of course I'm doing this in my 401K so I don't have to pay short term capital gains.
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,543
488
96
As of now Micron is about break even for me. I could sell and be happy with the option profits but I think its going higher.

I'm holding. Both the stock and my breath.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,309
2,100
126
Tomorrow will be an important report on inflation. If the numbers come in too high get ready for another big drop.....maybe. If they are in line or lower, then all is well....maybe.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,585
2,949
136
I hope they come in high. If the market doesn't react then the pull back was probably a liquidity issue due to the fed a) doubling their asset buys to $20B per month and b) back loading the purchases to the end of January rather than spreading them out. If it does, then all of the pundits claiming it was over inflation fears are probably right.
 

woodman1999

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2003
1,697
106
106
CPI came in higher than anticipated.

Evidently, that's coupled with a fall in retail sales... should make for an eventful day...
 
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DietDrThunder

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,262
326
126
CPI came in higher than anticipated.

Evidently, that's coupled with a fall in retail sales... should make for an eventful day...

Now if it would lower the market enough to get me to my buy points on several stocks. I just didn't quite get there the last big drop.
 

woodman1999

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2003
1,697
106
106
Neither did I. There are some positions I currently hold that I'd like to add to as well as initiate a couple new ones. another 2k points please....
 
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