Discussion ***Official*** 2020 Stock Market Thread

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dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,543
488
96
Its not just TSLA, a lot of late model EV co's are having quality issues lately. Audi, KIA and Porsche all were cited for all sorts of problems with their electric vehicles.

Thats why I stick to good ol' fossil fuels.

I'm no fool. At least I don't think I am. I know fossil fuels have to go eventually.

I actually owned a Volt. 2012 premium, damn fine car. The stereo was phenomenal. You could put in a DVD and it sounded like a movie theater. 18 surround speakers. But eventually I decided I wanted something comfortable and traded it in for an LS 460.

I'm just a little skeptical that EV adoption is going to move as fast as people seem to think it is There are a LOT of bugs to work out.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,299
2,097
126
GM today announced it wants to transform into an EV co sooner rather than later. I know Ponyo will criticize GM for not being Tesla, and GM/F are so far behind, etc., however if GM executes it might double ... at least.

They are even profitable with a very low P/E:



One of the biggest things that keeps me away from GM and F is their stupid unions. Unions are a bane (sorry to anyone who is reading this and is in one)

Anytime these giants make more money the stupid unions want more money and big increases in benefits. If they were smart they would get stock options as bonuses so their collective wealth would grow.

Oh well.
 
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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
GM can say whatever they want about their EV program but until they do it, it's all talk. GM management have no credibility. Nokia thought they had a shot at catching Apple too.

Product superiority wins out over any bullshit management talk. Spend 30 minutes and go test drive Model 3. It's the most basic research and yet none of you have done it. I don't even know why I even bother trying to educate the ignorant.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,299
2,097
126
Most all stocks trade on hype and momentum. While I am not a fan of GM because of their union, this chart doesn't lie:



 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
I thought about it, and if there's a "tech" company the S&P should be adding (as opposed to Tesla), it's TSMC. Of course they are not US based.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
Has NIO actually manufactured a vehicle for sale yet? I think Xpeng has 2 models currently available
Nio has several models.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIO_(car_company)
They operate in the Chinese luxury EV market. Xpeng operate in the mid-range market.

But Nio does not own their own factory or produce their own cars. Nio cars are made by Jianghuai Automobile Group (JAG). So basically, NIO has to share margin with JAG. So unlike Tesla and Xpeng, NIO is using subcontractor. The sub is not going to work for free and wants their profit too. So NIO will never be as profitable as Tesla and Xpeng since they have to share margin with JAG. This is one of the reason why I'm more Xpeng fan than Nio fan.

It's the same with self-driving technology. Tesla and Xpeng are developing FSD in-house. Nio is relying on MobileEye for the FSD tech. Again, MobileEye wants their margin and cut. Nio is not vertically integrated like Tesla and Xpeng. I strongly believe in order to compete with Tesla, you have to be vertically integrated. Tesla is ruthless at cutting cost while driving innovation. If you're relying on subs and other companies for your production and technologies, you don't control your own destiny. Nio will fall behind. But China is a huge market so Nio will probably still do well. But I believe the eventual winners in the Chinese market will be Tesla and Xpeng.
 

echo4747

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2005
1,978
156
106
Xpeng unveiled their P7 Wing today. $56,000 and $62,000 after subsidies.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...nts-P7-Wing-Limited-Edition-at-Auto-Guangzhou





Tacky as hell but Chinese will probably love it since it has Lambo doors.
does look a bit tacky.. would much rather a model S than P7 ( then again the P7 substantially less $$) Was just about to pull the trigger on a model Y performance but I see Tesla removed the option for the 19" wheels ( The roads where I live will probably destroy the 21" uber-turbines) Probably will wait to spring 2021 to buy something now .. I think the model Y is rumored to be adding the air adaptive suspension which would be nice
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,543
488
96
I'd like to do something. I don't have that much room to play with, maybe $10,000. My Pfizer bet has kind of squeezed me.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,282
3,904
75
I'm just a little skeptical that EV adoption is going to move as fast as people seem to think it is There are a LOT of bugs to work out.
That's why government needs to push them to get it done, by squeezing out fossil fuels.

I mean, squeeze fossil fuels out of the market, not out of the ground.

England's doing it, but it's still not soon enough!

Product superiority wins out over any bullshit management talk. Spend 30 minutes and go test drive Model 3. It's the most basic research and yet none of you have done it. I don't even know why I even bother trying to educate the ignorant.

I still can't live without manual controls for essential components. Like air handling - and wipers! When I'm driving into a snow squall and my windshield fogs up, I don't want to be fiddling with a touch screen.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
That's why government needs to push them to get it done, by squeezing out fossil fuels.

I mean, squeeze fossil fuels out of the market, not out of the ground.

England's doing it, but it's still not soon enough!



I still can't live without manual controls for essential components. Like air handling - and wipers! When I'm driving into a snow squall and my windshield fogs up, I don't want to be fiddling with a touch screen.


To be honest.... If you really want to proceed FAST with electric cars - more specifically automated cars - theres only one way: Somehow restrict or hinder lawsuits. Like when dipshits put on auto-drive and go take a nap, get in a wreck and then attempt to sue Tesla.

This is the same reason why we don't have mass transit in this country - is simply all the legal challenges that will hold it up - from both an industry perspective, and a land ownership perspective.
 

dasherHampton

Platinum Member
Jan 19, 2018
2,543
488
96
I'm going to watch VEON for a while, just to see how it moves.

It's a Netherlands based telecom that operates mostly in Eastern Europe and Asia. Buck fifty a share with a 20% dividend. Highest price target is around $5. It has ratings from big banks.

It doesn't look like a scam at first glance but I really have no idea.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
I bought back the PLTR Nov 20 $15 calls on Friday for about $2,500 loss. I could've let my PLTR shares get called away and made $5,200 or about $2,700 after taxes. Another option was rolling the $15 calls into further out date calls but then I would've been subject to wash rule and prevented from applying the $2,500 loss to this year. Since I'm still bullish on PLTR, I felt the best option was to buy back the calls for loss and then wait 31 days and sell covered calls then. It looks like that was the right decision since I already made back about $1,900 of the loss and didn't add any further tax liability for this year.

XPEV is just a beast and it reached $60 before Nio. And TSLA is being TSLA and kicking butt as usual. I want to sell covered calls on both TSLA and XPEV but I'm going to wait for higher prices. I can sell June 18, 2021, TSLA $800 calls right now for about $45 but I think if I wait closer to S&P add date next month, I might be able to get $60 or $70 for the same calls or even hundreds. Really, no one knows how high TSLA will go next month. $700-$800 isn't out of the question. When funds have to buy like 30% of the float, crazy things can happen. It took Apple like 9 years to buyback around 30% of their float through hundreds of billions in buyback. 30% of TSLA float have to be bought in matter of days. That can only cause tremendous upside pressure. Likes we have never seen before in history.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,505
27,801
136
Stopping stupid lawsuits and litigation BS would fix so many problems in this world.
No, it would ensure that problems linger as long as the people making the money aren't the people getting hurt. I suppose "litigation reform" is a topic for another thread though.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,299
2,097
126
Looks like a MASSIVE short covering rally in the EV space. Just when you think they are overvalued....they get even more overvalued. Just like my momma told me back in the year 1999....you NEVER short big momentum. If you think something is overvalued you either buy and hope some sucker pays more than you did, or just avoid it altogether. But NEVER think you can call the top and start to short.
 
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