Discussion ***Official*** 2022 Stock Market Thread

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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,281
2,093
126
Oh snap. This Bullard guy is doing the dirty work for Powell... suggesting that they might even go as high as 7%. I think he's exaggerating but he's definitely giving the impression that they aren't cutting any time soon. Needless to say stocks are down.

Plus unemployment numbers were good.

They have to jawbone.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,281
2,093
126
Gold and silver are also monopoly money - they have value for the same reason that fiat currencies have value: people believe they can trade the currency for goods and services. Without that universal belief, gold and silver would be relatively worthless shiny rocks.

Those two are the only natural elements from the periodic table that have been acknowledged for thousands of years as viable currency...unlike worthless bitcoin which Buffet correctly characterized as rat poison.

Governments may fall but gold and silver will endure long after we are both dead.
 
Reactions: Artorias
Dec 10, 2005
24,304
7,165
136
Those two are the only natural elements from the periodic table that have been acknowledged for thousands of years as viable currency...unlike worthless bitcoin which Buffet correctly characterized as rat poison.

Governments may fall but gold and silver will endure long after we are both dead.
And? Again, people only believe it has value because they believe they can trade gold and silver for goods and services. It doesn't have massive value because of some intrinsic property.
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
Gold and silver are also monopoly money - they have value for the same reason that fiat currencies have value: people believe they can trade the currency for goods and services. Without that universal belief, gold and silver would be relatively worthless shiny rocks.
but interestingly enough, gold's worth is universal even in medieval times with cultures that have never met before.
ie: incas (south america) and the spanish conquistadors (europe) both valued gold (1500s) even though they were continents apart
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,853
12,337
126
www.anyf.ca
Precious metals also need to be mined, and require real work, so it can't just be printed out of thin air. They also have some uses to make things. That's probably why the pricing is more or less stable and it actually goes up in value instead of down. They used to use precious metals to make coins but due to inflation the precious metal is worth more than the coin's face value. Regular money is constantly declining in value. I used to be of the belief that you should save up to buy big ticket items but with inflation you're actually better off using credit because if you wait until you save up that thing you were going to buy will now cost more.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,387
4,936
136
Precious metals also need to be mined, and require real work, so it can't just be printed out of thin air. They also have some uses to make things. That's probably why the pricing is more or less stable and it actually goes up in value instead of down. They used to use precious metals to make coins but due to inflation the precious metal is worth more than the coin's face value. Regular money is constantly declining in value. I used to be of the belief that you should save up to buy big ticket items but with inflation you're actually better off using credit because if you wait until you save up that thing you were going to buy will now cost more.
This is the reason why they want a stable inflation around 2%. People are willing to spend money at a regular rate, but it is not high enough to create instability.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,304
2,910
126
Some retail earnings reported after hours. Gap and Ross. Beat estimates. Didn't follow Target's bad results. Could be a good day tomorrow.
 

Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
2,131
1,410
136
And? Again, people only believe it has value because they believe they can trade gold and silver for goods and services. It doesn't have massive value because of some intrinsic property.

Gold and silver is a vital metal involved in a lot of modern day technology and also going back a thousand years for it's durability/malleability. This isn't something that was just used for currency but also a key part in the development of technology.
 
Reactions: FelixDeCat
Dec 10, 2005
24,304
7,165
136
Gold and silver is a vital metal involved in a lot of modern day technology and also going back a thousand years for it's durability/malleability. This isn't something that was just used for currency but also a key part in the development of technology.
Yes, it has some intrinsic value for select applications. It's total value however is driven by an underlying belief that you could use it as a currency or a wealth storage medium.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,281
2,093
126
Gold and silver is a vital metal involved in a lot of modern day technology and also going back a thousand years for it's durability/malleability. This isn't something that was just used for currency but also a key part in the development of technology.

Taken to the extreme, gold and silver are the only two metals (elements) that would survive virtually any disaster. All humans and the Earth itself will be destroyed when the sun goes supernova. But gold and silver will still survive and perhaps once again be used as currency somewhere.


Also, to those who think these elements have no value, I will be happy to pay for shipping and you can send me all your worthless gold and silver items.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,517
2,894
136
The issue isn't value - even of the intrinsic kind. It's the fact that both have been, and always will be, wildly unsuited to being a medium of exchange. It's like getting out the bikes when you tell the fam you're going to Tokyo. There's probably some contorted and conceptually ugly algorithm that has some small chance of working. The question is, how much shit are you willing to put up with to go down that road?
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,823
5,440
136
Some retail earnings reported after hours. Gap and Ross. Beat estimates. Didn't follow Target's bad results. Could be a good day tomorrow.

Yesterday's selloff was more because of Bullard's comments than Target. Today could go either way though because it's Options day.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,184
3,608
126
Since there isn't enough gold to go back to the gold standard, should we make gold illegal to possess again? Gold possession in the US was illegal from 1933 to 1974 due to not enough gold for a proper gold standard. That is, should we all ship our gold to the government so we can go partly back onto this gold standard? Or should we go back to the government setting the price of gold? Just set it to $35/ounce and stick with that price forever (you can buy it for more but can only sell it for $35/ounce)? Or both?

I'm not seriously proposing that. I just want people here to know what they are asking for. Because both happened in the past as the only way to even remotely stay on the gold standard. If you thought the government meddling in prices was too much now, wait until you force the government back into the gold market.
 
Last edited:

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,853
12,337
126
www.anyf.ca
I could see the government eventually make silver illegal too. There is lot of movement and they are not able to keep up with people buying it. Lot of people also buy paper silver which is basically like shares in silver without the physical to back it. If all those people decide they want to claim the real silver, there is currently not enough in the comex vaults.

I lost all my silver in a boating accident so the government is going to have to go try to find it.
 
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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,304
2,910
126
The holiday effect in full swing today. VIX is trending down. I'm hopeful it will get below 20 before the end of the month.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,281
2,093
126
^hmmm..it's possible 23 could be another bad year. Assuming we can tame inflation, things might return to the normal 10% a year gains.

You have to realize that we went up nearly 400% in most markets (look at QQQ chart) from 2016 to 2021.

A big bear was long overdue.🐻
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,304
2,910
126
Bought 50 shares of good ol' VTI @ $199.9. Might get a few more shares, but that's about it for the year.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,301
10,800
136
People have been spending heavily despite inflation. Even putting more of their purchases on credit.

From what I've been reading the largest growth area has been in "lease/rent to own" companies like Affirm which IMO edge uncomfortably close to "payday-loan" territory.

Not good news if accurate.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,304
2,910
126
From what I've been reading the largest growth area has been in "lease/rent to own" companies like Affirm which IMO edge uncomfortably close to "payday-loan" territory.

Not good news if accurate.
It's okay if there isn't any interest and people pay on time. Similar to 0% credit card purchases.
 
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