Discussion ***Official*** 2023 Stock Market Thread 💰

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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
I bet they get the corpse of SVB for $1. Not per share, $1.
JPMC will be absorbing quite a bit from this mess. We'll see if more banks fail. JPMC will no doubt be taking on new depositors and taking over existing deposits.
 

PlanetJosh

Golden Member
May 6, 2013
1,815
143
106
Ok yes normal people don't have to fret much about the $250K guarantee limit. But there may be a few people here who have say 10%-20% or whatever over that amount in just a few banks? First of all we (or they) don't really want to admit that we (they) have that much money even in one bank due to security reasons. Like the whole forum and the net could read it and know what you have.

And second of all I (or they) can just open up a few more accounts at a few more different banks to lower the total cash in each bank to the $250K.

And for the record I don't have enough cash to make the CDARS method or similar methods practical. That's for several multi Smillions or at least a few multi Smillions. They spread out the cash into dozens or hundreds of different banks so you get the $250K FDIC guarantee for all of them. And they can shift the cash from one bank to another on a daily or whenever basis if there's any doubt about the stability of any of the banks. For movie star and CEO types.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,401
386
126
What kind of idiot would buy bank stocks when interest rates are rising? This happens over and over again throughout history. Banks fail during rising interest rates. Not only do they have fewer customers for their products, but their assets decline in value since investors would rather buy the new higher yielding bonds and mortgages than the low yield ones that the banks still have on their books. You want to buy bank stocks during the times of falling interest rates. In times of falling rates, banks have a boom of customers with refinances and new mortgages. Think of all the bank fees which are pure profit on each refinance. Plus, all the high interest rate loans they still have skyrocket in value as investors want them over new low interest rate loans.

I know KB was trying to argue here that banks would do well, with the assumption that they will give banking customers low interest rates on savings and then lend out at high interest rates. But that just isn't how most banks work. Most banks can't keep on to the higher interest rate loans. They sell them off to Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae. That is even if they do have any loans to sell as there are so few customers wanting the higher rate loans.

Yeah many of the banks have poorly managed their money. SVB got into so much trouble because they bought lots of long-term low-yielding t-bills which got pummeled when rates rose. Bad on them. I think other banks like JPM will do better and may gain from SVBs demise.

One thing I didn't expect was the big drop in the savings rate, down to a all-time low of 2%. This meant that banks had to increase the rates they paid out to attract money and the net interest margin wasn't as high as I had expected.
 
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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,403
4,966
136
Ok yes normal people don't have to fret much about the $250K guarantee limit. But there may be a few people here who have say 10%-20% or whatever over that amount in just a few banks? First of all we (or they) don't really want to admit that we (they) have that much money even in one bank due to security reasons. Like the whole forum and the net could read it and know what you have.

And second of all I (or they) can just open up a few more accounts at a few more different banks to lower the total cash in each bank to the $250K.

And for the record I don't have enough cash to make the CDARS method or similar methods practical. That's for several multi Smillions or at least a few multi Smillions. They spread out the cash into dozens or hundreds of different banks so you get the $250K FDIC guarantee for all of them. And they can shift the cash from one bank to another on a daily or whenever basis if there's any doubt about the stability of any of the banks.
Usually you would store large amounts of money in bonds or stocks.
 

PlanetJosh

Golden Member
May 6, 2013
1,815
143
106
^ They probably have enough cash for a third or even half in cash and half in bonds and stocks. The cash being for I guess two main reasons, fear of a bond and stock collapse in a stock and economic 1929 style crash. And to have ready cash for expensive houses, gifts, to own a business, give to charity, etc.

I realize a crash that big could endanger bank CDs and savings accounts. So it's possible we could all be in some sort of bread line. But that's just theory, we don't know yet if cash will or won't survive a crash of that magnitude.
 
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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,318
2,924
126
Usually you would store large amounts of money in bonds or stocks.
That would be the norm. Except SVB had low liquidity and was forced to sell bonds at a loss to cover it. Word got out, chaos ensued, and a bank run was a result.

All banks should have enough to cover deposits without having to sell assets at a loss. That's how SVB failed.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,403
4,966
136
That would be the norm. Except SVB had low liquidity and was forced to sell bonds at a loss to cover it. Word got out, chaos ensued, and a bank run was a result.

All banks should have enough to cover deposits without having to sell assets at a loss. That's how SVB failed.
I meant as a private person with more than $250k in cash
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,841
5,456
136
Apparently the FDIC did try to seriously sell SVB's corpse... but only got one offer and they rejected it.

Also the rate odds have gone back to favoring a Single Hike. Guess there's expectation that the CPI numbers will continue to be very high.
 
Reactions: FelixDeCat

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,841
5,456
136
CPI numbers were in line I think with the estimate (0.4 and 0.5 for Core CPI)... which is still a pretty big month on month increase. But Wall Street doesn't seem to mind.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,307
2,099
126
Bought 35 FRC @ 30

Sold too soon yesterday at $38 😶

Edit..but it was too risky to wake up to zero dollars. Not to say it will happen given the JPM and Fed bailout of FRC, but seriously the regulators can shut down any bank at any time.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,307
2,099
126
CPI numbers were in line I think with the estimate (0.4 and 0.5 for Core CPI)... which is still a pretty big month on month increase. But Wall Street doesn't seem to mind.

The Fed needs to hike .25 to maintain credibility.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,307
2,099
126
In light of continued banking jitters and a pullback in consumer spending my guess is no rate increase next meeting.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,841
5,456
136
BTW I definitely think this was a stunt to get the pivot sooner. I am unconvinced they will get what they want.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,907
12,375
126
www.anyf.ca
Speaking of rate increases I just realized my mortgage renewal is in September. That's probably going to hurt. On the flip side, my TFSA is yielding me $2/mo in interest now! Probably going to use that money on a new water heater though, I really need to bite the bullet and replace my old gas one that's costing me a lot to run and is on it's last legs. Will probably get a heat pump one so they are going for like 3 grand. I see that as an investment as it will save me a lot in utility bills.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,307
2,099
126
Speaking of rate increases I just realized my mortgage renewal is in September. That's probably going to hurt. On the flip side, my TFSA is yielding me $2/mo in interest now! Probably going to use that money on a new water heater though, I really need to bite the bullet and replace my old gas one that's costing me a lot to run and is on it's last legs. Will probably get a heat pump one so they are going for like 3 grand. I see that as an investment as it will save me a lot in utility bills.

My parents had a gas water heater (American Standard) installed in 1994 for $400. It failed in 2022. They had to go electric because of changing regulations, which meant the installation of a dedicated appliance wire in the basement for $1000 and the install of the water heater itself by the same company. Total cost was $3000.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,307
2,099
126
FRC continues to crash and burn.

Bailout/buyout in the works? Crazy volatility. Bought 1 share at 32 yesterday and sold this morning at 21 at a loss. Then I noticed it was running monstrously back up, bought some here and there, 53 shares average price $25.82.
 
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