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Dec 10, 2005
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7,335
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Because we need prices to go back to 2019 levels. And I want more interest paid on my money. 😀
Prices never go all the way back down. That's not how it has ever worked anywhere. And for the most part, prices are down.

Anyway, don't give a crap about your interest money. Maybe you should get a job.
 
Reactions: repoman0

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
Do you want more people to be unemployed, so that people are more desperate and willing to work for less and put up with more crap?

If by" more crap" you mean RTO... then yes I still think the pivot isn't happening until WFH is over.

Number of people drawing unemployment is going back down.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,420
7,335
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If by" more crap" you mean RTO... then yes I still think the pivot isn't happening until WFH is over.

Number of people drawing unemployment is going back down.
By forcing employees to deal with more crap, I mean forced RTO (often because it is even more inflexible than pre-COVID times, from some of the ones I've seen), having to do more work for less, or just simply having to put up with generally bad work environments because finding a new job is difficult when unemployment is up.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,315
2,922
126
If by" more crap" you mean RTO... then yes I still think the pivot isn't happening until WFH is over.

Number of people drawing unemployment is going back down.
You and this work from home thing.

Where are your statistics to back all this up?

I continue to read success stories from companies stating that it does indeed work. Productivity-wise.
 
Reactions: FelixDeCat

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,211
3,622
126
Because we need prices to go back to 2019 levels. And I want more interest paid on my money. 😀
We had extraordinarily low inflation from ~2010 to 2021. And that followed low inflation from 1991 to 2010. That was an anomaly. 2019 prices were way lower than they should have been. All of the 2010s had way lower prices than they should have been. Yes, we'd all like to go back to low prices, but that is not likely to happen. And if it did happen, falling prices often come with major depressions (just look up "deflationary spiral" and then look at decades of terrible economy Japan has had when their prices fell). That situation is not good for your money.

I think you ultimately confused "should" with "want". You want lower prices and you want more interest payments. But that doesn't mean we "should" create the probably horrific conditions necessary to get those wants. Heck, you've already complained about high credit card interest rates that come along with higher interest rates. And that is only one small tidbit of the pain you are asking for with 10% interest rates.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
You and this work from home thing.

Where are your statistics to back all this up?

I continue to read success stories from companies stating that it does indeed work. Productivity-wise.

Mentioned this back in the Covid thread a long time ago. WFH is terrible for collaboration and communication. You can work around it, provided you aren't doing anything innovative but it's not ideal. But really... the main problem is that it's terrible for noobz (New Grads, etc). They need to be micromanaged. People also slack off a lot more than they would have in the office and that's killing productivity.

It was pretty obvious even back in 2020 that people were going to ignore the above because they love WFH so much. This as someone who had worked mostly WFH in 2017-2019.
 
Reactions: FelixDeCat

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,211
3,622
126
Mentioned this back in the Covid thread a long time ago. WFH is terrible for collaboration and communication. You can work around it, provided you aren't doing anything innovative but it's not ideal. But really... the main problem is that it's terrible for noobz (New Grads, etc). They need to be micromanaged. People also slack off a lot more than they would have in the office and that's killing productivity.

It was pretty obvious even back in 2020 that people were going to ignore the above because they love WFH so much. This as someone who had worked mostly WFH in 2017-2019.
I agree with you except for the part in red which is the exact opposite of reality. In reality, people in offices chat about their day in the morning, then get coffee, then take long walks around the office, then tea break, then see a coworker that they haven't caught up with in a long time, then have birthday cake, then a retirement gathering, then leave early for drinks on Friday, etc. Ever hear of the phrase "water cooler discussion"? You know, where you talk sports or TV shows for 30 minutes with other coworkers around the water cooler. Yep, only happens in offices. Productivity often soars with work from home as people can just work. Productivity also soars since managers can only judge them on output--not whether or not they decorate their office space with the manager's preferred sports team flags or chat for hours about their shared interests.
 
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AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,315
2,922
126
Mentioned this back in the Covid thread a long time ago. WFH is terrible for collaboration and communication. You can work around it, provided you aren't doing anything innovative but it's not ideal. But really... the main problem is that it's terrible for noobz (New Grads, etc). They need to be micromanaged. People also slack off a lot more than they would have in the office and that's killing productivity.

It was pretty obvious even back in 2020 that people were going to ignore the above because they love WFH so much. This as someone who had worked mostly WFH in 2017-2019.
Sounds like a toxic manager problem rather than a work from home problem.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,898
12,365
126
www.anyf.ca
Interest rates should be 10%

Would hurt those that are about to renew their mortgage but if we could get inflation down it would more than make up for it as right now the costs of living and prices of everything is insane. Something's got to happen.

Just renewed my mortgage and my interest rate doubled, but that's still a pretty small number dollar wise compared to the cost of utility bills, groceries, etc.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
Sounds like a toxic manager problem rather than a work from home problem.

You have to do it to get productivity out of noobz. Not to mention the learning aspect - remote learning in general (including schools) has been a disaster.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,315
2,922
126
You have to do it to get productivity out of noobz. Not to mention the learning aspect - remote learning in general (including schools) has been a disaster.
One size does not fit all.

To blanket say we need a return to office/classroom isn't advantageous to all people and all institutions.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,398
4,963
136
Would hurt those that are about to renew their mortgage but if we could get inflation down it would more than make up for it as right now the costs of living and prices of everything is insane. Something's got to happen.

Just renewed my mortgage and my interest rate doubled, but that's still a pretty small number dollar wise compared to the cost of utility bills, groceries, etc.
Unless the increased mortgage prices are actually driving the inflation. People demanding higher wages so they can pay their interests and tenants increasing their rents, so they can pay their increased interest rates. If housing is what is keeping the inflation high, what does it help to keep increasing rates?

Also the fed need to remember both of their dual mandate:
As a result, the goals of maximum employment and stable prices are often referred to as the Fed’s “dual mandate.”

 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,898
12,365
126
www.anyf.ca
IMO for office work I can see in-person training and working in office for like 6 months or so, but once the person is more or less up to par nothing wrong with remote. In an ideal world companies would be like 95% WFH with only a small office for new employees.

Although it's not out of the realm of possibility to train remotely, with the right software and procedures.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,898
12,365
126
www.anyf.ca
Unless the increased mortgage prices are actually driving the inflation. People demanding higher wages so they can pay their interests and tenants increasing their rents, so they can pay their increased interest rates. If housing is what is keeping the inflation high, what does it help to keep increasing rates?

Also the fed need to remember both of their dual mandate:
As a result, the goals of maximum employment and stable prices are often referred to as the Fed’s “dual mandate.”


The interest just gets absorbed into the payment so on it's own it doesn't make COL going up, just means it takes longer to pay off the house, the real issue is the cost of everything else going up then having to demand higher wages to compensate for that. Most companies will not just give you a higher wage and if they do it's very small like 1-2% when inflation is like over 10%. (the government numbers tend to be very conservative, it's in reality way higher). We got lucky at our last contract renewal and actually got 2% for 4 years but I'm pretty sure that means next contract we get nothing. That 2% barely even makes up for the natural gas hike let alone all the other bills.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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The housing problem is comfort greed, not interest rates. Most everybody I knew grew up (and still live ) in 1,000-1,500 square foot homes, some with 5 or 6 kids. A couple of bedrooms, a kitchen, a living room, maybe a dining room and a basement for a rec area.

Interest rates were 10% or more. I remember when I was happy to refi to the amazingly low rate of 9%.

Now everybody wants a 4,000 square foot mini mansion for 1 or 2 people that may never have kids. Great rooms, entry halls, add-on and bonus rooms, 3 bathrooms and a kitchen bigger than some of the houses we grew up in.

I've never paid more than $40K for a house. The one I'm sitting in now, I bought outright for under $30K. Now you can't hardly get a garage built for that.
 
Reactions: FelixDeCat
Dec 10, 2005
24,420
7,335
136
The housing problem is comfort greed, not interest rates. Most everybody I knew grew up (and still live ) in 1,000-1,500 square foot homes, some with 5 or 6 kids. A couple of bedrooms, a kitchen, a living room, maybe a dining room and a basement for a rec area.

Interest rates were 10% or more. I remember when I was happy to refi to the amazingly low rate of 9%.

Now everybody wants a 4,000 square foot mini mansion for 1 or 2 people that may never have kids. Great rooms, entry halls, add-on and bonus rooms, 3 bathrooms and a kitchen bigger than some of the houses we grew up in.

I've never paid more than $40K for a house. The one I'm sitting in now, I bought outright for under $30K. Now you can't hardly get a garage built for that.
You couldn't really be more wrong if you tried. The fundamental problem for housing is lack of supply in the places people want to live and work, exacerbated by laws and rules that basically lead to only large, luxury SFHs being built.

That's why you can still buy a cheap home in a rotted out rust belt town, where homes are aplenty, but in most major metro areas, you need to shell out a ton, even for a modest condo or some small post-war home (and vacancy rates can be <1%).

As long as we allow municipalities to continue choking the housing supply, prices will remain high.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,299
2,097
126
Would hurt those that are about to renew their mortgage but if we could get inflation down it would more than make up for it as right now the costs of living and prices of everything is insane. Something's got to happen.

Just renewed my mortgage and my interest rate doubled, but that's still a pretty small number dollar wise compared to the cost of utility bills, groceries, etc.
Exactly. Prices are insane and wages have not kept up. The Fatcats and demagogues decry deflation but it's a great wealth creator.
 
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Reactions: Red Squirrel

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,299
2,097
126
Also, I won another $2,000 at the casino, making $3,000 in two weeks. Put that in your inflation pipe and smoke it! 😉
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,505
27,801
136
Exactly. Prices are insane and wages have not kept up. The Fatcats and demagogues decry deflation but it's a great wealth creator.

When you are up to your neck in personal and commercial real estate debt and spent millions on things like artwork, expensive furniture and other nonsense of course you favor inflation.

But the average person benefits from deflation, government austerity and a poverty of excess which is the mother's milk of hyper inflation.
Nope. Deflation is the fastest route to massive unemployment and depression there is. Deflation stops demand dead.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,539
3,461
136
Mentioned this back in the Covid thread a long time ago. WFH is terrible for collaboration and communication. You can work around it, provided you aren't doing anything innovative but it's not ideal. But really... the main problem is that it's terrible for noobz (New Grads, etc). They need to be micromanaged. People also slack off a lot more than they would have in the office and that's killing productivity.
My college friends and I always get a good laugh about the ineffective boomer middle managers who believe any of the stuff you wrote here. Seriously think the 20-30 somethings who grew up writing IMs from age 5 can’t communicate or collaborate remotely?

My wife and I are early 30s. She fully remotely manages 80 20-30 something software engineers at a $XX billion company that’s managed to introduce constant new features and has grown >30% YoY for a decade. I am a fully remote lead engineer for a smaller team of 20-30 something’s that builds cool autonomous robotic toys for the US Military. None of us have any problem getting our work done and we certainly don’t micromanage (lol). Don’t give me any late 40-60 year olds though.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,835
5,452
136
One size does not fit all.

To blanket say we need a return to office/classroom isn't advantageous to all people and all institutions.

Basically the whole point is that companies that want cheap grads/employees as their focus need to be in office. Which is pretty much all of them.

As it relates to the stock market, conviently when people stop complaining about RTO is when inflation will finally settle down.
 
Reactions: repoman0
Dec 10, 2005
24,420
7,335
136
Basically the whole point is that companies that want cheap grads/employees as their focus need to be in office. Which is pretty much all of them.

As it relates to the stock market, conviently when people stop complaining about RTO is when inflation will finally settle down.
If you look at the inflation numbers, they have already largely settled down.
 
Reactions: repoman0

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,398
4,963
136
The interest just gets absorbed into the payment so on it's own it doesn't make COL going up, just means it takes longer to pay off the house, the real issue is the cost of everything else going up then having to demand higher wages to compensate for that. Most companies will not just give you a higher wage and if they do it's very small like 1-2% when inflation is like over 10%. (the government numbers tend to be very conservative, it's in reality way higher). We got lucky at our last contract renewal and actually got 2% for 4 years but I'm pretty sure that means next contract we get nothing. That 2% barely even makes up for the natural gas hike let alone all the other bills.
Then your loans work different than ours. Our loan has a fixed term, and if the interest goes up, so does the monthly payments.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,898
12,365
126
www.anyf.ca
Then your loans work different than ours. Our loan has a fixed term, and if the interest goes up, so does the monthly payments.
Ideally you want to increase the payment to make up for it so you're not extending the loan life but you don't have to. All that stuff can be negotiated when it comes up to renewal time. Recently renewed mine and the base payment was kept at $400 biweekly but I asked to pay $200 more since I paid off the credit line with the mortgage while it was open. I can bring it down any time I can. There might be rules about not exceeding the total original loan time though but unless you made minimum payment for the entire life of the loan you'll always have wiggle room anyway. It's very good to make bigger payments in the beginning because most of the payment is interest otherwise.
 
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