Discussion ***Official*** 2023 Stock Market Thread 💰

Page 11 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,309
2,099
126
Let's say your brokerage cash money market account which is covered by SIPC is in SVB. Does SIPC coverage mean you're in the insured or non insured category? And how good is SIPC coverage anyway in this case for brokered money market accts?

I have a large sum in a brokered money market acct in my brokerage cash at Chase JPM. Should I think about moving it to the Chase Bank side in a FDIC insured CD? Keep in mind by doing that I won't be able to make a large profit in a day trade or overnight trade in stocks anymore. Edit: Unless there's an instant or same day clearance of a transfer from a bank savings acct to brokerage cash to buy stocks. I guess I could do it that way.

I highly doubt that JPM brokerage would be using SVB... considering they are a bank themselves. You can always call and ask them how your cash is insured and if they have any SVB exposure.

Also JPM survived everything since the stone age. They are not going anywhere.
 
Last edited:

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,300
5,730
136
a lot of silicon valley tech startups have their money in SVB

software dev forums have quite a few people worried if they're even going to get paid

there's people who say their company has 10s of millions in SVB... that 250$k FDIC insurance isn't going to help much
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,309
2,099
126
a lot of silicon valley tech startups have their money in SVB

software dev forums have quite a few people worried if they're even going to get paid

there's people who say their company has 10s of millions in SVB... that 250$k FDIC insurance isn't going to help much

I heard on CNBC that the first $250k is covered. Anything beyond that will be paid from any assets sales as they are first in line to get paid from whatever value the FDIC can recover from the corpse of SVB.

If people are waiting on a paycheck it may be several months before they see a dime.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,309
2,099
126
You know, I'm wondering... would shorts even be able to cover?

From what I recall, you can either cover when it goes to the pink sheets at a cent or two a share or wait a year or more when the brokerage just removes the symbol from the account when the shares are officially canceled in bankruptcy. In which case you NEVER have to cover.

In other news, anyone who bought cheap puts on SVB yesterday won the lottery. Although I'm not sure how you can exercise them or sell them.
 

PlanetJosh

Golden Member
May 6, 2013
1,815
143
106
^ My brokerage JPM rose 2% today. Not actually a brokerage but you can trade stocks in their "Wealth Management" investment platform.

Oh the 2% rise thing. That could be because startups that were with SVB may be seeking Chase JPM among other banks for help.
 

Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
2,134
1,411
136
Enjoy the bank stock discounts. Just go with a big reputable bank and earn a nice dividend.

At least here in Canada we got stricter rules and higher stress tests.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
126
I highly doubt that JPM brokerage would be using SVB... considering they are a bank themselves. You can always call and ask them how your cash is insured and if they have any SVB exposure.

Also JPM survived everything since the stone age. They are not going anywhere.

They survived because they are too big to fail, not because of anything amazing being done on their end. They were one of the 3 major US banks that received a bailout to the tune $4.5 trillion during the 2019 Repo crisis. Without the Fed backstopping the Systemically Important Banks, they would fall just like smaller banks would. I won't be surprised if JP Morgan Chase will need a helping hand from the Fed again sometime before the end of this rate hiking cycle.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,309
2,099
126
They survived because they are too big to fail, not because of anything amazing being done on their end. They were one of the 3 major US banks that received a bailout to the tune $4.5 trillion during the 2019 Repo crisis. Without the Fed backstopping the Systemically Important Banks, they would fall just like smaller banks would. I won't be surprised if JP Morgan Chase will need a helping hand from the Fed again sometime before the end of this rate hiking cycle.

Surprisingly this is the first Ive heard of this. After reading about it, this disruption seemed to really impact all banks that needed access to the repo market based on a series of ill timed events and was quickly resolved with an EMERGENCY injection of $75 billion from NY federal reserve bank:

 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,631
126
The stock fell from $700 to zero.

Can you imagine all the people who bought yesterday's 60% dip thinking it was a "bargain" at $100 a share not knowing that 24 hours later the stock would be ZERO dollars a share?
What kind of idiot would buy bank stocks when interest rates are rising? This happens over and over again throughout history. Banks fail during rising interest rates. Not only do they have fewer customers for their products, but their assets decline in value since investors would rather buy the new higher yielding bonds and mortgages than the low yield ones that the banks still have on their books. You want to buy bank stocks during the times of falling interest rates. In times of falling rates, banks have a boom of customers with refinances and new mortgages. Think of all the bank fees which are pure profit on each refinance. Plus, all the high interest rate loans they still have skyrocket in value as investors want them over new low interest rate loans.

I know KB was trying to argue here that banks would do well, with the assumption that they will give banking customers low interest rates on savings and then lend out at high interest rates. But that just isn't how most banks work. Most banks can't keep on to the higher interest rate loans. They sell them off to Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae. That is even if they do have any loans to sell as there are so few customers wanting the higher rate loans.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,309
2,099
126
I've heard that they are looking for a buyer for SVB. I remember when JPM bought Bear Stearns for almost nothing and only if the government guaranteed the sub prime holdings that came with it.

If SVB can find a buyer over the weekend, I wonder if it will be for $1 per share. That would help stabilize fears.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,309
2,099
126
What kind of idiot would buy bank stocks when interest rates are rising? This happens over and over again throughout history. Banks fail during rising interest rates. Not only do they have fewer customers for their products, but their assets decline in value since investors would rather buy the new higher yielding bonds and mortgages than the low yield ones that the banks still have on their books. You want to buy bank stocks during the times of falling interest rates. In times of falling rates, banks have a boom of customers with refinances and new mortgages. Think of all the bank fees which are pure profit on each refinance. Plus, all the high interest rate loans they still have skyrocket in value as investors want them over new low interest rate loans.

I know KB was trying to argue here that banks would do well, with the assumption that they will give banking customers low interest rates on savings and then lend out at high interest rates. But that just isn't how most banks work. Most banks can't keep on to the higher interest rate loans. They sell them off to Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae. That is even if they do have any loans to sell as there are so few customers wanting the higher rate loans.

I've spent 33 years in consumer and commercial banking. You are supposed to manage rate risk with short term duration bonds (90 day), hedges, etc. This is money you have to have ready on demand for withdrawal requests.

If you watch the video posted by Biostud above, it provides one reason why SVB failed (besides a concentrated customer base of tech startups vs mom and pop depositors):

They mentioned two types of holdings to invest customer deposits -

1)Bonds held for sale which are marked to market quarterly (they were forced to liquidate at a loss because the mix held longer term bonds which lost too much value)

2)Bonds held for investment which are longer term and kept on the books at face value until paid back in full.

The bank liquidated all the bonds held for sale and effectively lost over $1 billion in customer money. They had to raise capital to cover the loss. Unfortunately nobody came forth to buy the securities.

Overnight, people with millions of dollars at the bank realized they needed to get all their money out before everyone else causing a bank run. Now the bank was really screwed because they would have to liquidate all their bond holdings at a big loss.

The regulators knew that with no new capital and not enough money to cover all deposits (thank fractional reserve banking), THE BANK WAS TOAST. So they shut it down during working hours which is unheard of. They usually get shut down over a weekend.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
126
Surprisingly this is the first Ive heard of this. After reading about it, this disruption seemed to really impact all banks that needed access to the repo market based on a series of ill timed events and was quickly resolved with an EMERGENCY injection of $75 billion from NY federal reserve bank:


Yeah, slight clarification needed...$75 billion of liquidity...per day. Which ended up being around $4.5 trillion net once the the entire operation wound down.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,915
12,379
126
www.anyf.ca
This whole fiasco is an important exercise in why you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Good to have cash on hand and even silver/gold for long term and also a separate bank account elsewhere. While FDIC is suppose to protect from this sort of thing, the protection is not instant, and in some cases it is non existent. For example a year ago when they were freezing bank accounts of protesters I don't think this protection would have been there for you. Once your mortgage or property tax payment starts bouncing you're basically losing your house. Or in the case of startups, being kicked out of rental office space.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |