Discussion ***Official*** 2024 Stock Market Thread 💰

[AdamK47]

I do want to look into index funds just have not spend much time researching them. No idea how to buy them, or which ones to buy etc. I might just go through the bank and have them manage it. I already have my RRSPs through bank so the same company that manages that might do index funds too. I have a bunch of money in there now and it's a managed investment for when I retire. It's no where near enough to pay bills though if I was to stay in this house and even if I move off grid there will still be some costs involved so I'll still want a source of income. Took me like 10 years to get that account to around 40k, 40k is a bit over 1 year worth of bills. Money doesn't go far now days.

The increase in cost of living does make it harder to invest more, as there's not much money left over once the bills come out. I think I will be in a slightly better position next year now that I got a new water heater and furnace, and wood stove is mostly done so will actually use it next year. Should be able to knock like $100 off the gas bill. That's only one bill though, but every little bit helps I guess. Going to add more solar panels as well this summer so might save a bit on hydro, at least in summer. Property taxes is the big one though, that takes out a big chunk of the pay cheque and nothing I can do to lower that other than move off grid, which is my long term goal but still have a lot of work to do before I can do that. I can invest all I want but still need that continuous income (savings is not income) to cover all the bills, which only go up each year.

Also still need to be able to enjoy life a little and buy nice things once in a while. I have not done that in a long time.

As for groceries, in the grand scheme of things I don't find the costs affects me as bad, I find it's mostly junk food that has gone way up in price. Grocery store prices on junk food are basically the same as convenience stores now. So I've greatly cut back on buying any of that. Been cutting back on takeout too, it's crazy how much they charge for delivery now, but they have to, because of the cost of gas. Some places charging like $7-$10 now. Then add tip and HST and you're up to like $40 for a poutine. So yeah, not ordering much anymore.

I believe the last time you asked about index funds was right before or at the start the current rally.

Just imagine where you'd be if you followed through on your initial investigation.

It's not hard getting into ETFs. Kids are doing it with Robinhood.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I don't have much money to put into it, so wouldn't be all that far. Need money to invest money. I just looked up Robinhood, it looks like it's US based but that they are coming to Canada. So maybe that could be worth waiting for.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I talked with a financial advisor who provided a recommended asset allocation which includes significantly increasing my stake in short and intermediate term bonds. The funds would come out of a government bond fund. Given how much the corporate bond market has sucked for many years, I'm waffling on taking the advice. On one hand, one is supposed to invest when things are cheap and bleak. On the other hand, government bonds have been out performing corporate bonds for ten years running.

Ive been in MM earning 5.5% since last year. I feel like we are in a bubble and am afraid to touch the S&P.

 

[IEC]

I had some CDs at 5.5%+. They're all getting full called early by the bank. Oh well, was good while it lasted. I'll have to decide what to do with the dry powder.

Ive been in MM earning 5.5% since last year. I feel like we are in a bubble and am afraid to touch the S&P.

From experience, timing a market correction is nearly impossible. The markets will remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Best just to have a reasonably diverse portfolio and contribute every paycheck as long as your timeframe for retirement is at least a decade out. Few downturns wipe value out that long. We're not Japan in the lost decades. With the default these days being to pour money into S&P 500 indexes I doubt it will tank all that much even in the event of a correction as more retail money will pour in to buy "cheap" stocks.

The only way you get destroyed is if we hit Great Depression levels of economic hardship, but then equities will be the least of your concerns...

 

[Brainonska511]

I don't have much money to put into it, so wouldn't be all that far. Need money to invest money. I just looked up Robinhood, it looks like it's US based but that they are coming to Canada. So maybe that could be worth waiting for.

It's not rocket science, and Canada is not some developing country where there are fewer protections and more work to identify a reputable company. I'm sure a 5 minute Google search could identify a Canadian equivalent to Fidelity (or even Fidelity) to get you started. Then you just pick a few low cost, broad index funds.

But also, stop buying your company's stock via its ESPP - from what you've told us previously, it's a garbage and a total waste of money.

 

[AdamK47]

I don't have much money to put into it, so wouldn't be all that far. Need money to invest money. I just looked up Robinhood, it looks like it's US based but that they are coming to Canada. So maybe that could be worth waiting for.

The big boy services are easy to use.

Mutual Fund and ETF Investing | Fidelity Investments Canada

Fidelity Investments Canada offers Mutual Fund and ETFs investing to help you reach your financial goals.

www.fidelity.ca

 

[Red Squirrel]

It's not rocket science, and Canada is not some developing country where there are fewer protections and more work to identify a reputable company. I'm sure a 5 minute Google search could identify a Canadian equivalent to Fidelity (or even Fidelity) to get you started. Then you just pick a few low cost, broad index funds.

But also, stop buying your company's stock via its ESPP - from what you've told us previously, it's a garbage and a total waste of money.

My ESPP has been the biggest return I've had from any investment, it's how I bought my off grid property cash. The company matches 1% for ever 2% I put in so it's a no brainer to go into it and it's super easy because it's just a simple option on the corporate intranet site. They recently increased the dividends as well. Once I get an index fund account set up and know what I'm doing I will reduce the ESP contribution a bit so I can put some in that too. It doesn't seem my current broker has index funds, but they have mutual funds, bonds, GICs and stocks. Are mutual funds not equally as good? When I look at my RRSP which is managed by my bank, they used mutual funds. But guess Index funds is what everyone is saying to get into so will try to find a broker that can do those. Just not finding much when I search or they start talking about Mutual fund and ETFs instead.

 

[Brainonska511]

My ESPP has been the biggest return I've had from any investment, it's how I bought my off grid property cash. The company matches 1% for ever 2% I put in so it's a no brainer to go into it and it's super easy because it's just a simple option on the corporate intranet site. They recently increased the dividends as well. Once I get an index fund account set up and know what I'm doing I will reduce the ESP contribution a bit so I can put some in that too. It doesn't seem my current broker has index funds, but they have mutual funds, bonds, GICs and stocks. Are mutual funds not equally as good? When I look at my RRSP which is managed by my bank, they used mutual funds. But guess Index funds is what everyone is saying to get into so will try to find a broker that can do those. Just not finding much when I search or they start talking about Mutual fund and ETFs instead.

Putting too much in an ESPP is bad because it lacks diversity: you're investing your savings in the same place you get your paycheck. Think of the people that worked for Enron.

As for mutual fund vs "index fund" - they are often used interchangeably. If you have a list of what is available, the collective we can probably help you identify a few to work off of.

 

[Red Squirrel]

This is basically the options I have, so if mutual fund is the same thing, then looks like I do have ability to buy them.

If I start typing the name of a bank or something I get options. Ex:

 

[Dr. Detroit]

USFR is a solid option if you have a high state income tax as it shields ~97% of interest/dividend income from state taxes.

Ive been in MM earning 5.5% since last year. I feel like we are in a bubble and am afraid to touch the S&P.

 

[Brainonska511]

This is basically the options I have, so if mutual fund is the same thing, then looks like I do have ability to buy them.

If I start typing the name of a bank or something I get options. Ex:

View attachment 95793

Shame they don't have a full list of what is available, unless you can just buy anything in the Canadian market.

Canadian versions of lazy portfolios - Bogleheads

www.bogleheads.org

You could try to see if you can buy any funds or ETFs (which can kind of act like a self-diversified mutual fund) mentioned in the bogleheads link above. It's about building a lazy portfolio that hits on low cost and diversity of holdings without having to do too much work. If you had to pick a separate fund set, the main thing is to find funds that are a) from legitimate companies, b) hold a diversity of stocks or bonds, and c) have low costs (so some advisor isn't just sucking all the profit out of the fund into their own pocket).

 

[Red Squirrel]

This is also a TFSA if it matters. There's no taxes. There is a limit to how much I can contribute per year, but that limit his much higher than what I could ever afford so I'm not too worried. Whatever is left over from the previous year carries over. I think the limit is 5k per year but I'm in the 10's of thousands last I checked.

So this is the way to go then? I was just confused at the terminology, since I don't see the option for index fund, but if mutual fund is basically the same thing, then I will research those further, at least I know I can buy them through my existing broker now.

 

[Brainonska511]

A mutual fund is basically a fund that is invested in some group of assets. An index fund is a specific type of mutual fund that tries to track some reference index. For example, an S&P500 index fund will hold stocks for companies on the S&P500 and try to hold them in the same proportion such that the growth of the fund mirrors the growth of the index (in this case, the S&P500). But those reference indices can be whatever - maybe you want to invest in something that tracks the total market, or international stocks, or stuff in emerging markets, or large cap domestic stock...

 

[Red Squirrel]

I can't find anything related to SP500 but I found TSX60 which I think is the Canadian equivalent. Though I wonder if info is limited because we're not in trading period so maybe tomorrow during the day I can play around with it more.

There's no info such as the cost per unit or anything like that either when I click on it, maybe it only shows up in the day.

 

[iCyborg]

For mutual funds cost per unit doesn't mean much as you can buy fractional units, I only care about $ amount.

TSX is not the same as S&P500, if you prefer BMO, this would be the closest: https://www.bmogam.com/ca-en/products/exchange-traded-fund/bmo-sp-500-index-etf-zsp/
It's an ETF though, I haven't seen a corresponding mutual fund at BMO, but I haven't looked hard. I use TD e-series, they have MER ~0.30%, not as low as ETFs, but it's less hassle. Though I'm starting to get to a level where hassle may be worthwhile.

FWIW, I have both S&P500 and TSX index funds (and some others), S&P500 has been much better in the last 10-15 years, but I like to have some Canadian equity in the mix, especially since my S&P500 is non-currency hedged, and us Canadians are also subject to CDN/US$ fluctuations.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Don't care too much about what bank it's from, those just happen to show up when I searched for tsx60. I found some SP500 but they don't seem to show up in my broker's site when I search.

There's also oil and gas and other ones wonder if it's worth getting into those. ZSP is one I searched for but doesn't show up.

Good to know you can buy fractional, so that makes it easier.

 

[biostud]

You are speaking about society as a whole and he is relating personal experience. I can tell you that my wages have not kept up with inflation either.

My car insurance is up 40% over the last 3 years and my wages have not kept up.

Food prices are up 80% in 4 years and my wages have not kept up.

That is because you have a toothless trade and competition legislation and you don't want to unionize. The less control there is in a market, the more likely the big fish will eat the small ones. And you my friend is not a big fish.

 

[cytg111]

I am contemplating putting down a dime on Intel and TSMC for a long run. They seem to be the future producers of AI transistors for the coming decade and they're likely not able to keep up with demand.
Especially Intel with the new chips act... it's going to be producing AI chips non stop.

Thoughts?

 

[FelixDeCat]

That is because you have a toothless trade and competition legislation and you don't want to unionize. The less control there is in a market, the more likely the big fish will eat the small ones. And you my friend is not a big fish.

Holy Mackerel! You are correct. Had I been part of a union we could have bargained for big wage increases to beat inflation.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Holy Mackerel! You are correct. Had I been part of a union we could have bargained for big wage increases to beat inflation.

I'm in a union, reality is if the company really wanted to they could just shut down our entire business unit if we can't come to an agreement. We are lucky to get a 2% increase. We got that last union agreement and it was the biggest increase we ever had. Even the 2% raise doesn't really make much of a difference. I think it's like, maybe 10 bucks by the time all the deductions come out? Companies are not charities they won't just give you extra money for doing the same job you've always done. Especially in this market where people are desperate for any job at any pay. I often get food delivery drivers asking if we're hiring.

 

[dullard]

I'm in a union, reality is if the company really wanted to they could just shut down our entire business unit if we can't come to an agreement. We are lucky to get a 2% increase. We got that last union agreement and it was the biggest increase we ever had.

Time for a new career? This union in Timmins just got 20% to 26% raises: https://www.northernontariobusiness...new-contract-with-goldcorp-in-timmins-7764929
Looks like you'd even get a signing bonus.

 

[biostud]

Holy Mackerel! You are correct. Had I been part of a union we could have bargained for big wage increases to beat inflation.

Well, I'm in the public sector and getting 8,8% over two years. The unionized industry sector got a little bit more. As long as it isn't the salary driving the inflation, the sectors who are, are earning boatloads of cash.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Time for a new career? This union in Timmins just got 20% to 26% raises: https://www.northernontariobusiness...new-contract-with-goldcorp-in-timmins-7764929
Looks like you'd even get a signing bonus.

That's an exception, not the rule. Mining is indeed a very lucrative career, but you pay for it in many ways due to damage it does to your body over time. Not something I'd want to do as a life long term career. If I lost my current job I'd consider getting my common core and getting into it as there's not much in tech here, but not something I'd jump ship to voluntarily. You CAN make like 6 figures working in the mines though... that means more money left over to invest.

The REAL issue though is the fact that inflation exists in first place. Constantly running the hamster wheel to try to get a higher salary is only a bandaid solution to the problem. Eventually, you want to be able to retire. Can't do that when the costs of living require so much cash flow coming in.

 

[dullard]

That's an exception, not the rule.

It actually has been pretty close to the rule in many jobs in the last couple of years. Since your job isn't doing that, then you should strongly consider changing to a career that does.

The REAL issue though is the fact that inflation exists in first place. Constantly running the hamster wheel to try to get a higher salary is only a bandaid solution to the problem. Eventually, you want to be able to retire. Can't do that when the costs of living require so much cash flow coming in.

You need to save ~15% a year through any combination of ways to save. That is all you need to do to retire. It isn't as dire as you point out.

High inflation is terrible. But inflation itself is absolutely necessary for society to function. There are so many good reasons to have low inflation.

 

[cytg111]

That's an exception, not the rule. Mining is indeed a very lucrative career, but you pay for it in many ways due to damage it does to your body over time. Not something I'd want to do as a life long term career. If I lost my current job I'd consider getting my common core and getting into it as there's not much in tech here, but not something I'd jump ship to voluntarily. You CAN make like 6 figures working in the mines though... that means more money left over to invest.

The REAL issue though is the fact that inflation exists in first place. Constantly running the hamster wheel to try to get a higher salary is only a bandaid solution to the problem. Eventually, you want to be able to retire. Can't do that when the costs of living require so much cash flow coming in.

reduce your cost of living… Sounds like you got uuuge bills