Discussion ***Official*** 2024 Stock Market Thread 💰

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Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
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Panic at the Disco, great time to do some investments at discounts.
Almost. Don't try to catch a falling knife.

Apparently another reason for the pullback is people buying on margin. (When isn't that a problem?) But this time they got their credit from Japan because interest rates on the Yen were low. Apparently this is known as a "carry trade".

 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,603
5,300
136
Almost. Don't try to catch a falling knife.

Apparently another reason for the pullback is people buying on margin. (When isn't that a problem?) But this time they got their credit from Japan because interest rates on the Yen were low. Apparently this is known as a "carry trade".

Now is a better time than a week ago, and time in the market beats timing the market, so now will be just as good as ever if you want to invest.

If you want to daytrade, gamble away on your own merits.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,950
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I guess the expected half point cut next month is already priced in. I think everybody finally got all of their pent up buying out of their system and now they're looking at their credit cards and home equity lines of credit and going ruh rho. So pivot and run in the opposite direction. The oscillations will eventually balance out though and the markets are still up year over year. It could be worse. You could be living in Japan.
 
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nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,993
1,998
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I inherited an IRA and intended to take some out and invest the rest how I see fit. Unfortunately you can't take money for 7-10 business days and it's already dropped $14xxx and I can't do anything about it until I have control of the money. Stoopid stock market. I don't even look at my 401k or Roth because I'm in it for the long haul with those, this was extra fun money.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,471
3,965
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Just remember how fast it can go from 10% up rest of the year, to worst crash. The opposite can also happen.

For long time investers it will just be a bump on the road.
Best prediction post of the year? Nikkei up strong today so far. Futures all strongly positive.
 
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Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
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Probably a dead cat bounce. Haha, kidding. There was no good reason for such a massive selloff. There must have been a massive amount of borrowed yen in the market and those folks got butt-raped. That and market liquidity must be pretty shallow.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,542
2,216
126
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the biggest problem was overconfidence all year long. We are all too stuck on traditional beliefs:

1) Election years are always up years (always doesnt mean always)
2) The Fed has our back (until they dont)
3) The economy is still strong (but weakening)
4) Inflation is down (but accumulated price increases have far outpaced wage hikes)

As a result, stocks did not have enough pullbacks this year and so we a mini one based on a black swan event from the land of the rising sun.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,542
2,216
126
People mentioned they were buying overpriced zero day index call options for tomorrow hoping to sell into a bounce.

When I read that I was thinking....

 
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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,603
5,300
136
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the biggest problem was overconfidence all year long. We are all too stuck on traditional beliefs:

1) Election years are always up years (always doesnt mean always)
2) The Fed has our back (until they dont)
3) The economy is still strong (but weakening)
4) Inflation is down (but accumulated price increases have far outpaced wage hikes)

As a result, stocks did not have enough pullbacks this year and so we a mini one based on a black swan event from the land of the rising sun.
Well, I remember some analysts saying in late 2023 that in 2024 stocks would be further down up to 15-20%, so my confidence in analysts is quite slim. For most investors they should simply stick to their strategy no matter what, and if you can't handle ups and downs and keep switching strategies, then maybe investing isn't really for you. So do not listen to media and financial youtube gurus because the flip-flop all the time, and if you panic, you'll probably end up losing more than you earn.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Sucks if you're doing only short-term trades, but thems the breaks when you gamble., For long term people, year to date, the market is still up ~10%.
 
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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,603
5,300
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Sucks if you're doing only short-term trades, but thems the breaks when you gamble., For long term people, year to date, the market is still up ~10%.
Exactly and with the end of '23 where everyone predicted '24 to be another tough year, it is really not that bad....
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,471
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4) Inflation is down (but accumulated price increases have far outpaced wage hikes)
I just don't think you are looking at the data when you post things like that. I really truly think you are going off of either (a) feelings or (b) a limited data set from a bubble around you. Maybe both. Lets look at the last 5 years (before and after pandemic). Urban US prices, CPI-U, are up 22.7%. Or if you look at CPI-W, prices are up 23.3% in the last 5 years. But US wages are up even more, 25.2%. That does not translate into "price increases have far outpaced wage hikes".

Heck, if you zoom in closer, in the last year CPI-U is up 3.0% and wages are up 3.6%. Over the last two years, CPI-U is up 6.0%, but wages are up 8.5%.

Sure, I could come up with ways to cherry pick the data to look like price increases are slightly more than wage hikes. Here is a hint: look at Feb 2021 to now, which is the period where Biden was in office. In that subset, inflation was slightly more than wage increases. But even then the difference is slight. Never far outpacing.


https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/consumerpriceindexhistorical_us_table.htm


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003
 
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Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,950
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The thing with wage increases is that they're not evenly distributed. They're averages calculated over all workers. So while you have some people backing up dump trucks of cash, you have others still working for minimum wage.

Fortunately we have a lot of states increasing their minimum in the face of the federal govt keeping it at 7.25. For example, here in NJ, it's just over 15 bucks. But right next door in PA, it's the fed minimum.

The point here though isn't to dispute the data but rather to show how you can have wildly different "vibes" about the economy.

Not to get into P&N territory, but that's one of the reasons the Ds have a huge advantage over the Rs. You know that the best we can hope for with Trump is maintenance of the status quo ante. But with moderately progressive Ds in charge, you can expect changes that will help what are often called 'the working poor.'

edit - and that's important not just on moral grounds but economic. The low end of the wage spectrum pretty much end up spending most or all of their disposable income. For an economy that's about 2/3's based on consumer spending, that ends up making things better for everyone.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,603
5,300
136
edit - and that's important not just on moral grounds but economic. The low end of the wage spectrum pretty much end up spending most or all of their disposable income. For an economy that's about 2/3's based on consumer spending, that ends up making things better for everyone.
But trickle down...
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,952
8,158
136
The thing with wage increases is that they're not evenly distributed. They're averages calculated over all workers. So while you have some people backing up dump trucks of cash, you have others still working for minimum wage.

Fortunately we have a lot of states increasing their minimum in the face of the federal govt keeping it at 7.25. For example, here in NJ, it's just over 15 bucks. But right next door in PA, it's the fed minimum.

The point here though isn't to dispute the data but rather to show how you can have wildly different "vibes" about the economy.

Not to get into P&N territory, but that's one of the reasons the Ds have a huge advantage over the Rs. You know that the best we can hope for with Trump is maintenance of the status quo ante. But with moderately progressive Ds in charge, you can expect changes that will help what are often called 'the working poor.'

edit - and that's important not just on moral grounds but economic. The low end of the wage spectrum pretty much end up spending most or all of their disposable income. For an economy that's about 2/3's based on consumer spending, that ends up making things better for everyone.
But we have data by percentiles too. The data on that is clear that the largest increases (by percent) went to the lowest earners.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,471
3,965
126
The thing with wage increases is that they're not evenly distributed. They're averages calculated over all workers. So while you have some people backing up dump trucks of cash, you have others still working for minimum wage.
You are correct. Wage changes are individual. So too with inflation; it is also highly individual. If you owned a house, then the housing price inflation had little to no effect on you. If you are healthy then medical inflation had little effect, etc. So, the net will certainly be wildly different from person to person.

But, looping back to the topic (yesterday's stock market crash), the stock market is a macroeconomic measure. Individual differences in the microeconomic scale have almost nothing to do with stock market (individual differences will impact politics far more than the economy). Averages are what really matter with stock markets.
 
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