Official AMD Ryzen Benchmarks, Reviews, Prices, and Discussion

[krumme]

What is this "server platform" nonsense anyway? Its the same cpu and platform tech.
Ryzen is a soc using infinity fabric. Mem and pci lanes scales 100% as i understand it right?. With 32c there is plenty eg pci lanes for even the smallest of niches on the "hedt"/"whatever you label it" market. I am sure amd will let you buy it no matter the name on the box.

 

[Markfw]

I think you're all trolling Mathias. His message is simple - Intel HEDT is not dead. I suggest if anyone wants to drag this on they should counter that argument, instead of making this a mainstream computing debate where saving $500 to invest in your graphics or faster storage is a no brainer.

This discussion has actually made me realize something. Where does Ryzen occupy in the CPU hierarchy? I think the speed with which AMD is rumoured to be bringing X399 online should be testament to what Mathias is saying. Ryzen is not there yet as an HEDT CPU. You can't use it in any serious, mission critical stuff just yet. It's a cpu for those enthusiast long thirsty for Intel's many-core computing party, and who have been locked out because they either can't or are unwilling to pay to play. Oh, Ryzen is also the second coming of Christ for most die hard AMD fans. It's a high end mainstream cpu that is also a throughput monster and so can do well in certain areas of HEDT computing but lacks in other areas as well. Mathias has already touched on some of these so no need to go there.

I also laugh at people who talk about drop-in upgrades on the AM4 platform - well, if you're moving from 4/8 to 8/16, fine. You're high if you think you can drop a 16c/32t chip in your $120 motherboard. Well, you could, but you'd have to put the fire department on alert. Intel's HEDT boards are expensive, as they should. A 16c/32t chip should be well built and cost significantly more than your $80 board. That's the only way you'd know you're getting top of the line, quality parts. I don't even know how people can buy a cpu for $500 and put it in an $80 board and go to sleep without keeping their noses, ears, and eyes wide open.

Did you read my post a few up from here ? I Own Intel Xeons, and AMD Opterons, and Ryzens. I would bet that if a 16c/32t server chip was AM4, my $185 Taichi would run it fine. And the platforms of Intel 2011-v3 and Ryzen are also very similar. I got one of the 2011 boards for $130, and the other 3 were $170. And they all run my E5-2683 14 core chips. If I wasn;t able to get these chips for $350 used from Japan, they would be $1500 or more. And my Ryzens are close in performance and power usage.

Oh, and my $500 1800x ran up to 3950 ghz overclock at 100% CPU usage for weeks on my $90 motherboard. Your post borders on trolling.

 

[lobz]

Its relevant in multi-GPU setups only.

I assume you meant "it's even less relevant in multi GPU setups".

 

[lobz]

Did you read my post a few up from here ? I Own Intel Xeons, and AMD Opterons, and Ryzens. I would bet that if a 16c/32t server chip was AM4, my $185 Taichi would run it fine. And the platforms of Intel 2011-v3 and Ryzen are also very similar. I got one of the 2011 boards for $130, and the other 3 were $170. And they all run my E5-2683 14 core chips. If I wasn;t able to get these chips for $350 used from Japan, they would be $1500 or more. And my Ryzens are close in performance and power usage.

most of the intel users already have a decided """opinion""" about Ryzen, no matter what, and you can almost always trace it back to ego.

 

[Markfw]

most of the intel users already have a decided """opinion""" about Ryzen, no matter what, and you can almost always trace it back to ego.

The odd thing is that I have 16 Intel rigs(6 of which are Xeons), one Opteron rig, and 2 Ryzen rigs. You would think that people would listen to someone who owns them ALL.

 

[krumme]

I don't even know how people can buy a cpu for $500 and put it in an $80 board and go to sleep without keeping their noses, ears, and eyes wide open.

Because it dont matter the slightest for stability or safety for a normal desktop machine. Its about functionality differences.

Do you think the money you pay for a 270 Intel mb goes to bom? Sorry but most goes to the shareholders. Its just segmentation.

From b350 to x370 mb there is strict demands for quality. No crap here. Not that it matters much for price because you get plenty mb for aprox 90 usd these days if you dont have those artificial markups in a monopolistic market.

 

[coercitiv]

Or to put it differently; If someone can't afford a $1,500 CPU, or even a $500 CPU, but has HEDT needs, an 1800x would work well - but if AMD then comes out 6 months later and says "Oh, btw, here's a $799 12 core part that rivals Intel's $1,500 part" then that's going to be sour grapes if the line was drawn around $800.

Someone who can't afford $1500 for a "true" high performance CPU and buys a $330-$500 CPU will say thank you and start working while still being able to afford rent, nice meals, a weekend vacation. And 6 - 9 months later when that new 12c-16c AMD comes in still under $1500 will take a minute to appreciate the return of healthy competition and then throw money at AMD (or competing Intel offer) while thinking how to better re-purpose the old system (backup, extra machine, or just sell to get extra cash towards new build). It's such a win-win only a sucker would fixate on hindsight losses.

As for this nonsense on whether Intel's HEDT is dead or not, keep me out of it, I did not say anything on the subject. In fact, with the risk of enduring immediate retaliation, my forecast for this year is (overclocked) SKL-X 6c/12t will be considered the best enthusiast gaming CPU. Which will be fun to watch too, since it will require acknowledging some of the weak spots of 7700K for gaming.

 

[mattiasnyc]

No, I am saying I (& everyone else) are aware of AMD's enterprise chips & technology, based on Zen architecture. And that AMD already possesses, what you claim to not know, or understand, or able to connect the dots on.

If Intel can release a High End Desk Top based on server boards & chips, then AMD can too. The inference is there, but odd how you don't know a single thing about it? Or the possibility?

*laugh*

Reading rumors is one thing. Knowing for sure what it is is another. Go have a google-session on Microsoft's Surface Phone if you want. It's been known to been in the design phase and been known to be released really really soon... for at least a couple of years.... Rumors. All I'm saying is that from a buyer's perspective it's all very interesting, but it doesn't mean much until something is officially announced.

But yeah, everyone said everyone said Iraq had WMDs as well, so it must have been true.

And again, since I'm sure it's going to not be understood: Saying one doesn't know if something exists is not the same as saying one knows it doesn't exist. It's not a trivial difference.

You made the argument that X99 has more PCIe lanes. Why make that argument if you are not implying that those lanes make a difference to anyone's real world performance?

The issue wasn't x8/x8, it was what happens if you need more that two x8. With x370 you're at best looking at x4, or possibly x1. From what I can tell it'd be x1 for me since I need two x1 slots for other things.

 

[Rifter]

The odd thing is that I have 16 Intel rigs(6 of which are Xeons), one Opteron rig, and 2 Ryzen rigs. You would think that people would listen to someone who owns them ALL.

Fanboys/trolls are lacking in objectivity.

 

[krumme]

since it will require acknowledging some of the weak spots of 7700K for gaming.

And perhaps require a AMD Vega gfx....

 

[mattiasnyc]

Someone who can't afford $1500 for a "true" high performance CPU and buys a $330-$500 CPU will say thank you and start working while still being able to afford rent, nice meals, a weekend vacation. And 6 - 9 months later when that new 12c-16c AMD comes in still under $1500 will take a minute to appreciate the return of healthy competition and then throw money at AMD (or competing Intel offer) while thinking how to better re-purpose the old system (backup, extra machine, or just sell to get extra cash towards new build). It's such a win-win only a sucker would fixate on hindsight losses.

As for this nonsense on whether Intel's HEDT is dead or not, keep me out of it, I did not say anything on the subject.

Well if you're going to respond to my post then it makes sense to put it into the context you seem to want to ignore.

Anyway, since you addressed me, the point I made earlier was simply that for someone who can't afford $1,500 for that CPU and instead spends $500, it might possibly be a bit annoying to essentially "bet" that this x399 shows up. I'd love to see such a CPU, and I've seen the rumors, but I so far haven't seen a single thing from AMD. So it is in effect "betting" on that it indeed appears. If it doesn't, then the user is looking at switching anyway, at which point people could make the "hindsight" argument that a lower-end x99 CPU would have saved the user the nuisance of having to swap platforms and instead just upgrade the CPU, should that be the only concern (and it isn't).

 

[w3rd]

Zucker,
I think we are being cordial. I outright asked why would anyone spend that kind of money for a dead & obsolete HEDT platform. When the X299 is only 4 months away..?

And then, suggested a better alternative and how the AM4 offers more future proofing, than Intel's current HEDT platform, that is now /eol (obsolete). And then subsequently IF... you are going to even mention Intel's next up-and-coming HEDT platform(x299), then you also have to include AMD's next HEDT (x390/399?), as well.

His excuse and rebuttal was he is unaware of AMD Enterprise/Server technology, or had suggested not knowing how Enterprise technology can be used in Consumer level boards. All because AMD never told him directly that it can be done in a press release. But somehow he knows & understands Intel operates that way.

So at this point, my arms are up in the air as to his logic & reasoning.

 

[Topweasel]

This discussion has actually made me realize something. Where does Ryzen occupy in the CPU hierarchy? I think the speed with which AMD is rumoured to be bringing X399 online should be testament to what Mathias is saying. Ryzen is not there yet as an HEDT CPU. You can't use it in any serious, mission critical stuff just yet. It's a cpu for those enthusiast long thirsty for Intel's many-core computing party, and who have been locked out because they either can't or are unwilling to pay to play. Oh, Ryzen is also the second coming of Christ for most die hard AMD fans. It's a high end mainstream cpu that is also a throughput monster and so can do well in certain areas of HEDT computing but lacks in other areas as well. Mathias has already touched on some of these so no need to go there.

I also laugh at people who talk about drop-in upgrades on the AM4 platform - well, if you're moving from 4/8 to 8/16, fine. You're high if you think you can drop a 16c/32t chip in your $120 motherboard. Well, you could, but you'd have to put the fire department on alert. Intel's HEDT boards are expensive, as they should. A 16c/32t chip should be well built and cost significantly more than your $80 board. That's the only way you'd know you're getting top of the line, quality parts. I don't even know how people can buy a cpu for $500 and put it in an $80 board and go to sleep without keeping their noses, ears, and eyes wide open.

The problem is Intel HEDT is a middle ground enthusiast solution using a professional solution shoehorned into a consumer product. Where are the 6c i7's? HEDT. Where are the 8 core i7's Products? HEDT. One of the major and pretty much sole reason to invest in HEDT was for more cores, that were overclockable, with consumer level features. The Plus side was in the SLI and Crossfire hey days, it offered more PCI-e for 3 way and like 1 4 way implementation.

What Ryzen does is unlock the major selling point of Intel's HEDT platform from a HDET platform. Want 6 cores, well available today is a 6 core highly competitive solution divorced of an HEDT platform. Want an 8 core system? Available to day is a competitive 8 core solution divorced of a HEDT platform. So what does Intel have left for HEDT is a 10 core solution at almost 2k dollars.

What is being debated is an actual Professional use case. Not an enthusiast or prosumer and even with the Prosumer. HEDT was never a proper solution. The proper solution is a Server/Workstation option that actually on a lot of fronts is actually cheaper to implement. Someone needs 10 cores they could get a V4 for as low as $700 with the option to get 2 of them and a board for the price of a 6950x. $1200 for a 12 core and so on. These systems have all the PCI-e lanes you want.

That's why I think people say that Intel HEDT is dead. In a non-biased view of uses for the platform. There is little reason outside using the CPU price for bragging to get an in Intel HEDT setup. It's to pricy not just for the CPU but as a platform as whole compared to it's targeted audience. Where anyone not sucked into the branding portion would know that on a professional level a Xeon workstation is where the money is best spent outside the general consumer market. It was never a great choice in the first place and SB-E was really the last time it was an understandable choice. Ryzen R5 and R7 especially just erases the grey area buffer where you could talk yourself into the platform assuming no bias. Still it's not dead. People will still buy it. Just the general non-bias enthusiast should understand that it is now more of a terrible investment then it was in the past.

Any talk of X390 or X399 or whatever I think is a little premature we don't know the actual target of that. My personal guess is that this is where the Ryzen Pro nomenclature comes from. So basically a rebrand of the Opteron server chips as Workstation specific chips with a more dedicated to Workstation chipset. It will probably make a suitable HEDT solution since AMD is less likely to do the things that Intel would do to prevent co-mingling in their product stack. But I doubt its actually going to be the HEDT targeted platform people assume it is going to be. If pricing is within reason though it continues the whole Intel HEDT is dead as the last bastion of desire among the HEDT crowd outside the CPU's actually being Intel will again one upped.

 

[imported_jjj]

The HEDT platform has always been consumer all that way, only they pay insane prices for high clocks ST and low efficiency.

Ryzen 5 launches and the thread gets hijack but a pseudo-professional that has never heard about Xeon or reason.

 

[Zucker2k]

Did you read my post a few up from here ? I Own Intel Xeons, and AMD Opterons, and Ryzens. I would bet that if a 16c/32t server chip was AM4, my $185 Taichi would run it fine. And the platforms of Intel 2011-v3 and Ryzen are also very similar. I got one of the 2011 boards for $130, and the other 3 were $170. And they all run my E5-2683 14 core chips. If I wasn;t able to get these chips for $350 used from Japan, they would be $1500 or more. And my Ryzens are close in performance and power usage.

Oh, and my $500 1800x ran up to 3950 ghz overclock at 100% CPU usage for weeks on my $90 motherboard. Your post borders on trolling.

I did read your post. You said Intel's HEDT chips are "overpriced." I paid no heed to it because it was in no way addressing Mathias' original post. The question was whether Intel's HEDT is "dead." While price is the first thing against Intel's HEDT chips, Mathias was making an argument for the continued relevance of these chips based on platform features and overall performance - strengths that a segment of the HEDT market are willing to pay a premium for. Ferrari vs BMW. On motherboards, it's all up in the air, isn't it? I know you're active in the Ryzen Builders Thread so you're more familiar with all the headaches of this current flagship platform than I am. Let's hope double the core count doesn't translate into double the troubles. Cheers!

 

[CatMerc]

I think you're all trolling Mathias. His message is simple - Intel HEDT is not dead. I suggest if anyone wants to drag this on they should counter that argument, instead of making this a mainstream computing debate where saving $500 to invest in your graphics or faster storage is a no brainer.

This discussion has actually made me realize something. Where does Ryzen occupy in the CPU hierarchy? I think the speed with which AMD is rumoured to be bringing X399 online should be testament to what Mathias is saying. Ryzen is not there yet as an HEDT CPU. You can't use it in any serious, mission critical stuff just yet. It's a cpu for those enthusiast long thirsty for Intel's many-core computing party, and who have been locked out because they either can't or are unwilling to pay to play. Oh, Ryzen is also the second coming of Christ for most die hard AMD fans. It's a high end mainstream cpu that is also a throughput monster and so can do well in certain areas of HEDT computing but lacks in other areas as well. Mathias has already touched on some of these so no need to go there.

I also laugh at people who talk about drop-in upgrades on the AM4 platform - well, if you're moving from 4/8 to 8/16, fine. You're high if you think you can drop a 16c/32t chip in your $120 motherboard. Well, you could, but you'd have to put the fire department on alert. Intel's HEDT boards are expensive, as they should. A 16c/32t chip should be well built and cost significantly more than your $80 board. That's the only way you'd know you're getting top of the line, quality parts. I don't even know how people can buy a cpu for $500 and put it in an $80 board and go to sleep without keeping their noses, ears, and eyes wide open.

When people talk about drop in upgrades, they mean future generations, not whatever is available now or within the year.

Where as Intel drops platforms like it's hot, AMD promised AM4 will stick around until DDR5 and PCI-E 4.0. That means Pinnacle Ridge next year, and whatever comes the year after that, and probably the year after that, after which the platform will probably be deprecated.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Zucker,
I think we are being cordial.

Not sure who "we" are, but when reading comprehension is questioned it's really just a poorly covered insult. Not that I care all that much about it, but there it is nevertheless.

His excuse and rebuttal was he is unaware of AMD Enterprise/Server technology,

If you're talking about me then that's absolutely not true. I am unaware of AMD officially saying it exists. Anyone making any purchase of value will have to operate based on known entities. You're not going to see a facility specializing on color correction or video editing or whatnot spend money on a platform that they saw someone on a forum say they heard there was a link to a blog post that reference an article that said a forum poster had said it existed.

I'm aware of what people say exists. I make zero purchases based on what people say exists but I see no official evidence of.

or had suggested not knowing how Enterprise technology can be used in Consumer level boards. All because AMD never told him directly that it can be done in a press release. But somehow he knows & understands Intel operates that way.

Again, mind your words please. I never suggested that enterprise tech couldn't be used on consumer level boards. If that's what you thought I said then feel free to point out where I said that. The ONLY thing I've said regarding the x399 platform by AMD is that it looks very interesting and that I would love to see it come to market, but that as long as we don't actually know for a fact that it exists, i.e. before AMD publicly says it does, it make little sense to gamble on it.

 

[inf64]

Some people have to finally wake up and realize one very important thing. AMD has a Bulldozer no more. AMD has Ryzen. Ryzen is a truly remarkable chip, a very high IPC design built on a solid manufacturing process. It is competing better than any previous AMD core in the last 10 or so years. Platform is rock solid apart from few quirks with high DDR4 clocking sticks and this will be resolved sooner or later. AMD is going to update this core on yearly basis and will bring 16C/32T parts to HEDT for the same or even lower price than what intel charges NOW for BDW-E (which will be basically crushed by Threadripper).

All of this means end users win since they can finally have 1K$ worth of CPU performance for FAR less money. Rejoice and get rid of the bias please.

 

[Malogeek]

Why hasn't this long Intel HEDT is dead discussion been moved into it's own thread yet?

 

[coercitiv]

Anyway, since you addressed me, the point I made earlier was simply that for someone who can't afford $1,500 for that CPU and instead spends $500, it might possibly be a bit annoying to essentially "bet" that this x399 shows up. I'd love to see such a CPU, and I've seen the rumors, but I so far haven't seen a single thing from AMD.

I'm not betting anything. You argued an early X399 would upset current R7 buyers. I proved you wrong, since a "cheap" 12c-16c CPU would only lower the price threshold for high throughput computing, and this is the only criteria a professional making money on such hardware would care about. There is no loss in such a scenario, whether the X399 shows up or not. You get what you pay for, which is a lot more than what you did months ago.

If it doesn't, then the user is looking at switching anyway, at which point people could make the "hindsight" argument that a lower-end x99 CPU would have saved the user the nuisance of having to swap platforms and instead just upgrade the CPU, should that be the only concern (and it isn't).

Is this a joke?! SKL-X will run on a new platform, didn't you read the press release?

Here's a suggestion for you: drop the CPU argument, just go ham on Optane.

 

[sushukka]

As an IT buyer for a Global Corporation, i have to totally agree, if i am asked to purchase alot of equipment i need to provide alternatives and atleast 3 quotes for each for comparison, and 99% if there performance difference is within 10% but the price comparison is say 20% or something, we go with the cheaper but slightly lower performing product.

Never has anyone said to me "It must be Intel" or "Must be Nvidia" i am told "It must be on Autocad's approved list" or "Must be able to run xxx".

The company i work for is a Dell Premiere customer, all our Laptops are Dell, im fairly certain soon once AMD get Zen into Laptops, that going forward all our Laptops will be AMD based, as they will be cheaper, that will be the driving force.

The only time ive been told what we can and cant buy is Mobile Phones, we only use Samsung Android or Apple Iphone, thats it, ive tried to argue against this but someone further up the chain obviously likes those devices

Also been there, but you wrote it better.
So much we would like believe otherwise, sadly we consumer PC builders are only a tiny player in this chessboard. The thing is that where the big crucial masses comes from are big contracts with IT providers, resellers, OEM manufacturers etc. In here the methodology of choosing the "units" is pretty pragmatic. Having only the current Ryzen 5/7 wouldn't probably be enough to really break through, but luckily it seems that AMD has made their homework comprehensively and they have very good cards (Naples, R3, Ryzen APUs with Vega, low power profile...) to shake the Intel's monopoly. When Dell, HP, Lenovo choose AMD to even some of their products it will immediately create the mass economy uplift to AMD it urgently now needs. Also with smaller cases there can be some personal biases towards eg. mobile phone brands, but I think this would also act for AMD's favor as it's seen the welcomed underdog player bringing the required competition back to the table.

 

[guachi]

Last week it was the AVX2 guy, this week the HEDT guy and the thread gets hijacked for 3-4 pages just because 1 guy can't let it go and 10 others are feeding him.

With my Ryzen processor, I have enough threads to feed a hijacking *and* game. At the same time.

Win!

 

[CatMerc]

With my Ryzen processor, I have enough threads to feed a hijacking *and* game. At the same time.

Win!

Meanwhile my 6600K is struggling to write this while there's a game on my other screen. It feels like my dual core 2.5GHz laptop on 5400RPM ruster right now.

 

[Topweasel]

I did read your post. You said Intel's HEDT chips are "overpriced." I paid no heed to it because it was in no way addressing Mathias' original post. The question was whether Intel's HEDT is "dead." While price is the first thing against Intel's HEDT chips, Mathias was making an argument for the continued relevance of these chips based on platform features and overall performance - strengths that a segment of the HEDT market are willing to pay a premium for. Ferrari vs BMW. On motherboards, it's all up in the air, isn't it? I know you're active in the Ryzen Builders Thread so you're more familiar with all the headaches of this current flagship platform than I am. Let's hope double the core count doesn't translate into double the troubles. Cheers!

But this isn't Ferrari versus BMW. The problem with Mathias's "continued relevance" doesn't really exist. These are carry-overs from using a rebranded Professional solution. Whether its Xeon's targeted for Workstation or server use. The amount of people blowing 5k/money's no object costs on system to use in professional setting where the system needs every precious PCIe lane as Mathias pointed out, they don't get HEDT systems. Not saying that no has ever gone all out on an X99 or something for a work system. But it doesn't happen. Why? Because their is a better platform that offers an amazing level of support and flexibility outside mad clocks. One with outstanding warranty support. If my developers ask for system for development with a large core count and memory and need amazing PCIe throughput for whatever cards they need. I am not getting a Falcon Northwest HDET system. I am not building an HDET rig. I am ordering a 7xxx series Dell Precision that comes with as much of the stuff they need that can be ordered with it and will fill the rest out when I get it and get 5 years of next day coverage on it. If someone says they want one of the systems for use at home. I am not going to build them a HDET system like that. I'll pair down to their cost willingness the specs of the same system, because that kind of use case needs top end support that I and I am sure most of us are unable or unwilling to provide.

Damn if my Ryzen setup which I got for doing light work related work at home was something that was an actual production system that would impact my ability to fund myself in the future. I'll be damned if it's a system I am building. It'll be the same, a big name box, with workstation components, with next day service.

 

[Markfw]

But this isn't Ferrari versus BMW. The problem with Mathias's "continued relevance" doesn't really exist. These are carry-overs from using a rebranded Professional solution. Whether its Xeon's targeted for Workstation or server use. The amount of people blowing 5k/money's no object costs on system to use in professional setting where the system needs every precious PCIe lane as Mathias pointed out, they don't get HEDT systems. Not saying that no has ever gone all out on an X99 or something for a work system. But it doesn't happen. Why? Because their is a better platform that offers an amazing level of support and flexibility outside mad clocks. One with outstanding warranty support. If my developers ask for system for development with a large core count and memory and need amazing PCIe throughput for whatever cards they need. I am not getting a Falcon Northwest HDET system. I am not building an HDET rig. I am ordering a 7xxx series Dell Precision that comes with as much of the stuff they need that can be ordered with it and will fill the rest out when I get it and get 5 years of next day coverage on it. If someone says they want one of the systems for use at home. I am not going to build them a HDET system like that. I'll pair down to their cost willingness the specs of the same system, because that kind of use case needs top end support that I and I am sure most of us are unable or unwilling to provide.

Damn if my Ryzen setup which I got for doing light work related work at home was something that was an actual production system that would impact my ability to fund myself in the future. I'll be damned if it's a system I am building. It'll be the same, a big name box, with workstation components, with next day service.

First, I am not sure I understand where you are going with this, but let me add my 2 cents if its relevant.

So I worked for a large corporation, that had OVER 5 square miles of data center floor space(could have been 10, but I know of at least 5). But did they make smart decisions ? in my opinion, no. They had a great warranty, but the products had cheap parts. Without revealing all of the details, they had servers that had the power regulators going out daily. The least dependable systems we had were the newest ones. And the workstations ? Just as bad, and expensive. Right now, I have a 15 year old system with consumer parts, that has been up 24/7/365 for those 15 years with NO failures (socket 775), Its simply about quality parts, the big companies like HP and Dell, only mean you get someone to FIX it fast, not that its good equipment. My personal equipment was what I used everyday, as the hardware provided me was so bad, it went down all the time. Being down in the first place is way worse than getting quick support fixing a downed server.