The problem is Intel HEDT is a middle ground enthusiast solution using a professional solution shoehorned into a consumer product. Where are the 6c i7's? HEDT. Where are the 8 core i7's Products? HEDT. One of the major and pretty much sole reason to invest in HEDT was for more cores, that were overclockable, with consumer level features. The Plus side was in the SLI and Crossfire hey days, it offered more PCI-e for 3 way and like 1 4 way implementation.
What Ryzen does is unlock the major selling point of Intel's HEDT platform from a HDET platform. Want 6 cores, well available today is a 6 core highly competitive solution divorced of an HEDT platform. Want an 8 core system? Available to day is a competitive 8 core solution divorced of a HEDT platform. So what does Intel have left for HEDT is a 10 core solution at almost 2k dollars.
What is being debated is an actual Professional use case. Not an enthusiast or prosumer and even with the Prosumer. HEDT was never a proper solution. The proper solution is a Server/Workstation option that actually on a lot of fronts is actually cheaper to implement. Someone needs 10 cores they could get a V4 for as low as $700 with the option to get 2 of them and a board for the price of a 6950x. $1200 for a 12 core and so on. These systems have all the PCI-e lanes you want.
That's why I think people say that Intel HEDT is dead. In a non-biased view of uses for the platform. There is little reason outside using the CPU price for bragging to get an in Intel HEDT setup. It's to pricy not just for the CPU but as a platform as whole compared to it's targeted audience. Where anyone not sucked into the branding portion would know that on a professional level a Xeon workstation is where the money is best spent outside the general consumer market. It was never a great choice in the first place and SB-E was really the last time it was an understandable choice. Ryzen R5 and R7 especially just erases the grey area buffer where you could talk yourself into the platform assuming no bias. Still it's not dead. People will still buy it. Just the general non-bias enthusiast should understand that it is now more of a terrible investment then it was in the past.
Any talk of X390 or X399 or whatever I think is a little premature we don't know the actual target of that. My personal guess is that this is where the Ryzen Pro nomenclature comes from. So basically a rebrand of the Opteron server chips as Workstation specific chips with a more dedicated to Workstation chipset. It will probably make a suitable HEDT solution since AMD is less likely to do the things that Intel would do to prevent co-mingling in their product stack. But I doubt its actually going to be the HEDT targeted platform people assume it is going to be. If pricing is within reason though it continues the whole Intel HEDT is dead as the last bastion of desire among the HEDT crowd outside the CPU's actually being Intel will again one upped.
Should i remind you how many benchmarks it took you to be convinced nV was at fault for Ryzen performance in gaming benches?One benchmark suite isn't sufficient.
1800X is closer to junkyard than to server market, though. Compared to 1700 or 1700x, that is.the ryzen 1800x is directed toward the server market.....its probably very formiable there
The Lord of the rigs!The odd thing is that I have 16 Intel rigs(6 of which are Xeons), one Opteron rig, and 2 Ryzen rigs. You would think that people would listen to someone who owns them ALL.
My conclusion is far from false. I did not, anywhere, say that the higher core count CPUs are able to win across the board, I said that their extra cores are starting to give them an edge over mainstream processors (as opposed to nothing like was the case a few years ago), which based on the evidence provided is true.Your conclusion was false.
One benchmark suite isn't sufficient.
"depending on the game suite, you can show 8 core CPUs ahead of the 7700k today, but that doesn't mean that there aren't a ton of games out there that don't properly utilize 8 cores,"
You can find dozens that shows the 7700k win.
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Did you watch his review and follow up slanderous video? He was clearly emotionally distraught during the filming.
i can remember those days when amd and intel where not that far from each other, but dell refused to put amd in consumer products...that is why i started to loose faith in dell, and soon they started making it so you could not configure ur own rig, and that about closed the door on me for dell comptuers.. i read somewhere that intel was paying dell not to put amd cpu,s in their units, not sure if that went on or not...makes me wonder thoughFirst, I am not sure I understand where you are going with this, but let me add my 2 cents if its relevant.
So I worked for a large corporation, that had OVER 5 square miles of data center floor space(could have been 10, but I know of at least 5). But did they make smart decisions ? in my opinion, no. They had a great warranty, but the products had cheap parts. Without revealing all of the details, they had servers that had the power regulators going out daily. The least dependable systems we had were the newest ones. And the workstations ? Just as bad, and expensive. Right now, I have a 15 year old system with consumer parts, that has been up 24/7/365 for those 15 years with NO failures (socket 775), Its simply about quality parts, the big companies like HP and Dell, only mean you get someone to FIX it fast, not that its good equipment. My personal equipment was what I used everyday, as the hardware provided me was so bad, it went down all the time. Being down in the first place is way worse than getting quick support fixing a downed server.
Give it up Matti. The mob has spoken. What you actually said or meant doesn't really matter.
i read somewhere that intel was paying dell not to put amd cpu,s in their units, not sure if that went on or not...makes me wonder though
Atari2600: Intels 6900k would be a much better balance in that regard relative to the R7-1800X.
It would depend on the workload. For example if rendering with cinema renderer Intels 6900k wouldn't be a better balance in that regard relative to the R7-1800X, would it ?
Also, when per thread licensing costs are very high
In fact, with the risk of enduring immediate retaliation, my forecast for this year is (overclocked) SKL-X 6c/12t will be considered the best enthusiast gaming CPU. Which will be fun to watch too, since it will require acknowledging some of the weak spots of 7700K for gaming.
I just linked you the review showing the 6900K beating the 7700K on average, read: an advantage (by 7% no less), so no, what I said is not patently false. Notably, in the same suite, the 7700K beats the 1800X by 4%. Clearly Ryzen's game performance is not where it should be.
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I wouldn't even buy such a product that has such licenses. WTF. Does that exists? Note: Yes there are per core licenses but that is something different.
Yeah I've really been scratching my head at that one.Am trying to understand why anyone would choose locked i5 vs r5 1600? Locked 4c/4t vs unlocked 6c/12t.
Ok the locked i5 is a bit cheaper at $190 vs $220 for r5 1600 but extra 30 gets you so much more.
Am trying to understand why anyone would choose locked i5 vs r5 1600? Locked 4c/4t vs unlocked 6c/12t.
Ok the locked i5 is a bit cheaper at $190 vs $220 for r5 1600 but extra 30 gets you so much more.
Am trying to understand why anyone would choose locked i5 vs r5 1600? Locked 4c/4t vs unlocked 6c/12t.
Ok the locked i5 is a bit cheaper at $190 vs $220 for r5 1600 but extra 30 gets you so much more.
Yep. Welcome to the world of commercial engineering software.
No - don't bother suggesting alternatives. I know of most of them. When the client specifies what you must use and refuses to countenance alternatives, you've no choice. Only thing you can do is make the best of a bad situation.
It's human nature to be emotionally attached to purchases and defend it against superior products. Even people who are buying Ryzen today, will most likely suffer from the same syndrome. Now, some are capable of maintaining a logical and objective mindset when evaluating pros and cons but that's rare and it shows here... Ryzen is a perfect example of tech prejudice.Am trying to understand why anyone would choose locked i5 vs r5 1600? Locked 4c/4t vs unlocked 6c/12t.
Ok the locked i5 is a bit cheaper at $190 vs $220 for r5 1600 but extra 30 gets you so much more.
It is 100% false. You did exactly that by pointing to one suite of games, and saying 8 cores have basically peaked already. It's utter nonsense... This was a CPU benchmark, so they picked the best games that scaled with the additional CPU threads! That's why the 6900k won the suite! These were hand picked games.My conclusion is far from false. I did not, anywhere, say that the higher core count CPUs are able to win across the board, I said that their extra cores are starting to give them an edge over mainstream processors (as opposed to nothing like was the case a few years ago), which based on the evidence provided is true.
"Slanderous", "emotionally distraught". Do you realize how silly that sounds? Of course I watched them, and I didn't see any of this alleged slander, or whatever red herrings you want to use to explain something as simple as a differing opinion. Do you have to be either incompetent or biased to not give glowing reviews to Ryzen? Based on the results, I don't see any issue with his interpretation. There are others, but how you came to conclusion that this came from a place of emotional weakness or fanboyism is beyond me.
The fact that I read posts that are completely bashing Ryzen 7, based on minds of certain individuals has made me stop posting and reading this thread.
Was curious to see what happened when Ryzen 5 got out. Still the same situation.
People when they make up their mind, about something, are not going to change it. Even if what they think/believe it completely contradicting reality. I guess I have to accept that...
Per thread based licensing is definitely from the harsh side of the pool. You could also have fixed, socket, core, user, named user, memory, connections etc. based license metrics. Thread and core licensing favor Intel's slightly faster IPC but even in those cases we need to see first how well the Naple's single core performance scales with Infinity Fabric as the performance curve is not linear when adding cores. In other license metrics there is little reason to select more expensive product especially when the server workload is so heavily multithreaded nowadays.Ryzen isn't the answer for all. But this example isn't right.
When your software license is per thread (example: Ansys Fluent) and the annual cost is far in excess of the hardware cost - then you have to strike the balance between acceptable job speed (i.e. greater threading) versus overall cost (more threads = more cost).
Intels 6900k would be a much better balance in that regard relative to the R7-1800X.
But then - those work loads would be going onto Xeons and Opterons. But thats still Zen vs. BWE.