*** Official ASUS P4P800/Deluxe (865PE) Thread ***

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

dwb122

Member
May 30, 2003
76
0
0
Umm......no it doesn't!

*ahem*....so does that mean it will not work with a US version of the board, or what?

-edit-
Oh, I assume he's just talking about the websites. Nevermind.

Anyways, anybody have an answer to my last question? What's with the reliablity of some boards over others in terms of stability because of the way they're manufactured? Can this be a serious threat to overclocking abilities?
 

ChefJoe

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2002
2,506
0
0
Dwb, every board is different. Some overclock better than others. Some don't even have the ability to adjust things in bios to make it overclock. Some don't include the ability to adjust semi-important overclocking things (voltages, dividers).

Well, dwb: I'm certain there are minor differences in each motherboard, but I have yet to hear of people describing their specific board as a "dud" the same way they talk about processors. I think these boards are too new for any judgements like that. I really wouldn't expect there to be a large difference from board to board, but there are revisions and minor tweaks throughout production.
 

dwb122

Member
May 30, 2003
76
0
0
By "different boards" I meant different individual P4P800's. I'm referring to the end of the Tom's Hardware article.
 

solofly

Banned
May 25, 2003
1,421
0
0
I noticed there was some talk about Corsair PC3200... Well all I?m gonna say is that I have no issues with TwinX PC3200. Now the only thing that is holding me back is the CPU itself. I have to recheck to contact between the core and the heatsink and see if I can push it any further. P4P800 is great mobo to use and to tweak with...
 

shinobi

Junior Member
May 27, 2003
14
0
0
I realise now that 1.5V does indeed refer to the connector only, should've known... duh. Thanks to those that replied.

I ordered my P4P800 Delux, 2x256 Kingston KHX3500, P4 2.8C, WD Raptor, and all that other stuff. Probably I'll have it all by Friday.

Any advice on what operating system is best? I personally like Win2k Pro, but it doesn't properly support Hyper Threading. However, I know it does support two physical processors. Anyone here know if it is stable with Win2k Pro while Hyper Threading is enabled? Or is it really better to migrate to XP?
 

xxsk8er101xx

Senior member
Aug 13, 2000
298
0
0
thats why i asked because there are people that do that!

you can still use the VIA/Highpoint - RAID - that has RAID 0, 1, 0+1, and JBOD. Unless you really need Serial ATA.
 

monadian

Junior Member
Jun 3, 2003
7
0
0
Originally posted by: monadian

Regarding the differences between the P4P800 versus the Deluxe version...


How about MAM on the non-delux version? That's really my main concern, because I don't much care about raid and already have firewire. And since I'm on the topic, what is the difference between enabling MAM (which I assume is enabling the PAT technology) and Turbo mode? Isn't Turbo mode just aggressive memory timings?

Downloaded both the P4P800 and P4P800 Deluxe manuals to try and find answers to my earlier questions, and wanted to relay my discoveries. The standard P4P800 board does indeed have a Turbo setting (p. 4-15) which can be enabled via the Performance Mode setting of the Advanced menu.

The standard P4P800 board ALSO has a Performance Acceleration Mode setting in the Advanced > Chipset menu (p. 4-17). This is also called out as Memory Acceleration Mode in the description for this setting (p. 4-18), so they are in fact one in the same. Note that there are definitely two distinctly different manuals for both the standard and Deluxe versions, and that I am pulling this info from the standard manual (the P4P800 isn't really referred to as a "standard" version, I'm just calling it that to differentiate.

Long story short: for those trying to decide if there will be a performance gain from purchasing the Deluxe version over the vanilla version, I see absolutely no reason to think that there will be.

I'm ordering mine today!
 

donfm

Senior member
Mar 9, 2003
677
0
71
Originally posted by: ChefJoe
Dwb, every board is different. Some overclock better than others. Some don't even have the ability to adjust things in bios to make it overclock. Some don't include the ability to adjust semi-important overclocking things (voltages, dividers).

Well, dwb: I'm certain there are minor differences in each motherboard, but I have yet to hear of people describing their specific board as a "dud" the same way they talk about processors. I think these boards are too new for any judgements like that. I really wouldn't expect there to be a large difference from board to board, but there are revisions and minor tweaks throughout production.

I think you hit the nail square on ther head. The companies are constantly tweaking the boards. This board is so new that I'm sure there will be differences between the original configuration and those down the road after problems are discovered. Companies can test the boards but there is "nothing" like putting a new board in the hands of a few hundred thousand overclockers to find problems. Do you really think ASUS is going to save a few pennies by removing components if it will cause operational problems. They may be money grubbers but they are not stupid money grubbers! This is true with every board and every company. All you people should not worry too much about a cap or two, this is a fine board as it is. It is fast, relatively inexpensive, and has a ton of features (deluxe edition).

My big question is, it seems the better faster memory has a problem running with this board while the cheaper slower memory doesn't. That goes against everything I think I know about memory. Somebody previously here advised me to get Corsair XMS memory instead of TWINX512-PC3200LLPT. Well for your knowledge TWINX "is" XMS matched tested pair memory according to Corsair.
 

Revolutionary

Senior member
May 23, 2003
397
0
0
Well, I have a problem and would appreciate anybody taking the time to help. My setup:

P4 2.4C
P4P800 non-DX
2x256MB Geil PC3500 Platinum Dual Channel Kit
VisionTek Radeon 9500 Pro
Windows 98 Second Edition

That's really all that's important now. I've never turned on Performance Mode Turbo, or Memory Acceleration Mode.

I'm really having a hard time with stability. I get frequent BSOD OE errors right at boot up, but not every time. When it boots alright, it will work for a while, then bam, OE error. This obviously sounds like a memory problem to me. So I've adjusted all the timings. I've tried running FSB at standard, in Standard performance mode, with SPD timings. No improvement. I've tried FSB 400 and mem SPD, no luck. I've tried memory timings: 2,3,3,7; 2,3,4,7; 2,4,4,7; 2.5,4,4,7, 2.5,4,4,8. Reassuringly, set it at anything any higher than that and it won't even post. I've tried vDIMM at everything from 2.55, 2.65, and 2.75 (Geil typically requires more voltage than other RAM brands). I'm getting kinda frustrated that maybe this RAM isn't going to work. The weird thing is that I've run Memtest at 128MB overnight without any errors, as long as there was nothing loaded into memory (ie, nothing in the task bar other than Windows icons). It also boots pretty well with nothing activated at startup via MSCONFIG. But it does eventually seize if I start running programs (other than memtest). And it doesn't matter what program: IE, Sandra, media player, zonealarm, spybot.

One recurring error, though, is the page fault in Kernel32 error. Could it be Win98? Should I try to install WinXP and see if that is more stable (I'm told it handles memory more efficiently)? Should I just cut my losses, sell the Geil (too late to return it) and buy some Kingston PC3500 (I want the headroom to run to FSB 1000 and up for when I move to Prescott, eventually). Any other suggestions?

One last thing: Could the AGP card cause these faults? I've never heard of such a thing, but I'm a little suspicious of this second-hand 9500 Pro I'm using. It passes all the DirectX tests just fine... are there any diagnostic programs I could use to find out where the errors are occuring and what is causing them?

Thanks to anyone who decides to help!


 

dwb122

Member
May 30, 2003
76
0
0
Since that important Tomshardware article was taken down, I'll post the parts that were cached on my computer:
Metamorphosis from Springdale to Canterwood

Chronology of Events

Tuesday, May 27, 2003


Due to our suspicions about the Asus P4P800, which we decribed in the previous section, we bought a motherboard of the same name (Rev. 1.02) in Germany's most well-known street for computer retailers. While making an initial visual comparison of the two boards, the first clear differences were discovered: many components that are on the press sample are missing on the retail variant, although the same model name as well as board revision are indicated. On both of the boards, the latest BIOS (1006 Beta 010) was installed and tested with identical settings. The result we got was that the retail variant of the P4P800 is up to 11% slower than the press sample in the memory tests. The THG crew was shocked.

Wednesday, May 28, 2003

Early in the morning, we contacted Asus in Taiwan and asked them to make a statement regarding the differences of the two supposedly identical boards. In response, we got a short explanation that did not contain any real information. The editors were quite concerned that Asus did not view this case as being a priority. Unexpectedly, on that evening, Asus Taiwan posted a press release (which could originally be viewed here)

>>Taipei, Taiwan; May 28, 2003 - ASUSTeK Computer Inc. (ASUS), the worldwide leader of motherboards, today announced its P4P800 series motherboards, based on Intel's latest 865PE chipset, are able to active Intel's Performance Acceleration Technology (PAT) for robust computing. Currently, ASUS' 865PE motherboards are the only solutions in the market that provide this advanced feature.
PAT is a trigger for extreme performance, boosting system performance by 3-5%. Combined with the 865PE chipset enabling an 800MHz system bus, it is designed for extreme performance. According to Intel, PAT is an exclusive technology for the 875P chipset, but with ASUS' strong engineering capability, the P4P800 series comes equipped with this feature as well.
To activate PAT, simply go into BIOS setup utility. Here are the simple steps:

1) Enter BIOS setup utility
2) Select "Advanced" menu
3) Select "Chipset" configuration
4) Enabled Memory Acceleration Mode
5) Your system is now PAT ready

...

Before deciding to include this performance enhancement feature, ASUS' research and development team conducted thorough and stringent tests on system stability to achieve an ideal balance between performance and reliability.<<


At the same time, we contacted Intel USA and asked them for a statement on this. In the end, the question was whether the PAT technology of the 875 chipset (Canterwood) could also be activated with the 865PE chipset (Springdale). In the meantime, the statement from Asus was making its way around the globe, and the THG crew felt as if it had been overlooked, because actually, the results from the THG lab was what brought this situation to light in the first place. We concluded that Asus's press release was in stark opposition to what was specified in Intel's whitepapers on the 865 and 875 chipsets.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
last page of article:

After the last few days, in which there has been much discussion about factory overclocking and tuning, and MSI made headlines with its 865 Neo 2, we now have Asus in the picture with its own issues to add. The manufacturer sent us a P4P800 to test, which turns out to be quite different from the version that's available in stores. After contacting Asus in Taiwan, we confirmed some of our suspicions: the manufacturer had succeeded in activating the PAT optimization with the Intel 865PE chipset. However, after Intel intervened, Asus is no longer allowed to call it "PAT". And so the excellent benchmark results, which are at the level of the expensive Intel 875P, are cleared up with this simple explanation. Here we'd like to revise our statement in our last test comparison that PAT technology doesn't affect much. It is certain that Intel partially puts the brakes on the 865PE chipset (Springdale) in order to justify the price difference with the Intel 875P (Canterwood). Intel thought that it was correct in saying that PAT could not be activated with the 865PE because of details in the hardware. But this proved to be incorrect - as we have shown, it is still possible through a clever trick. Inadvertently, Intel had left a back door open, which remains unfathomable to THG because in the past, lots of effort was spent on putting a lock on the multiplier.

The facts revealed in this article will probably cause some headach for Intel. In any case, the price difference of the two chipsets is $16 (per 1000 units) and increases to up to $55 for the board. Intel loses out on at least $16, as long as the customer goes for the Asus board, since other manufacturers have not mastered this technology (yet). Are the profits for the potentially lucrative 875P/Canterwood chipset in any danger? From a strategical point of view, it's more important for Intel to fulfil the demands of the market for chipsets of all types. Therefore, Intel wanted to castrate the 875P in such a way that it could also be sold as the 865P. The lower price is not as relevant, because in the end, a wider range of products keeps the competition at bay.

Now, Asus only one more problem left to solve: there are 865PE chips that don't pass the internal Intel PAT qualification tests through speed binning, and there are others that are artificially degraded in order to fulfil market demands. Only the latter type are suitable for stable operation after "reactivating" PAT. Asus wants to ensure this by using strict quality control, and the customers have to put their trust this.
 

cjsketchy

Senior member
Jan 23, 2002
401
0
71
My experience with the board (non deluxe) --

It's stable & fast at stock and for light overclocking but it's not really an overclocking beast. I have a 2.4C that gives me prime errors @ 260 fsb... I'm pretty sure the chip can do more since I've seen people with the same codes getting past 285. But, I didn't know if it was the board or the cpu, so I borrowed a 2.4b SL6RZ from a friend. This chip can do 190fsb all day long but in my p4p800 it crapped out at 170. Wouldn't even post. I upped the voltages, backed down the ram timings, tried single channel, turned off every performance enhancing tweak and still didn't get past 170. (All of this using the 1007 final bios btw)

But, if you can find a stable fsb and turn performance to turbo and turn on MAM... it does fly. With my 2.4C @ 3.12, my ti4200(300/600) got up to 14880 points in 3DMark2k1. Overall a nice board but won't OC like the top dogs. It could just be my board though. Who knows.
 

ChefJoe

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2002
2,506
0
0
yay for cache! the important part: there's tons of other parts about the capacitors and their locations, with pictures a motherboard maker might be able to use to figure out the real differences and their effects.
First intersting thing I've read at toms in a while.
I checked my cache in IE and saved the pages I had (0-9, 18, 20(last)) as complete html (2.2 megs uncompressed). PM me and I can e-mail those... up to a point. All credit (c) goes to our friendly authors at toms.

http://www17.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030603/865_PAT-05.html
Discrepancy: Marketing, Yield, Artificial Castration
From the beginning, Intel made safety precautions that would ensure that the board manufacturers couldn't easily activate the fast memory access (PAT) with the less expensive 865 chipset. The price difference with the chipset alone is at least $16, which results in a difference of up to $55 per board for the end user. Note that with the 875P chipset (Canterwood), PAT is only activated with a CPU with FSB 800 is detected by the Northbridge of the chipset. This involves the signal BSEL [1:0]. The following states are shown in the table below:
BSEL1 BSEL0 CPU Freq
0 0 FSB400
0 1 FSB533
1 0 FSB800
1 1 Reserved
With the 875P chipset, PAT is only switched on when the signals are BSEL1=1 and BSEL0=0 ("FSB800"). However, this function is deactivated with the 865 chipset (Springdale). Asus found a sort of "back door" for this. Although the state [1:0] is blocked on the 865 chipset (Springdale), Asus has still found out that the fast memory access PAT is kept open for the states [0:0] and [1:0], or FSB 400 and FSB 533 respectively.

Because the BSEL signals are normally used for controlling the clock generator as well, Asus came up with a trick: with the help of the Super I/O unit, which is integrated on all boards of the P4P800 series, the BSEL signals are intercepted and manipulated. This allows the clock generator to be programmed with the correct FSB clock frequency of the CPU as before, while the chipset is led to believe that a CPU with FSB 533 is involved.

This strategy is described by the diagram above. Furthermore, it has to be made sure that the memory clock works synchronously with the FSB clock (1:1 translation for the clock divider). In this case, the System Memory Frequency Select (SMFREQ) has to be adjusted accordingly. In addition, there are a few modifications in some BIOS registers that we won't get into at this point. The fact is that BIOS in the version 1007.001 already has modifications so that PAT is activated in any case. What's confusing is the older BIOS beta 1006.010, which is activates PAT only with press samples. The version for end users can only profit from PAT starting with BIOS 1007, for which the software has been available since June 2, 2003.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Apparently the Tom's Hardware article is back up, with an interesting addition at the end..

"..initial tests show that Abit has made the same leap in performance and is now at the same level as Asus."

Thought you Asus people would want to know. :evil:

article
 

Yourself

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2000
2,542
0
71
Originally posted by: cjsketchy
My experience with the board (non deluxe) --

It's stable & fast at stock and for light overclocking but it's not really an overclocking beast. I have a 2.4C that gives me prime errors @ 260 fsb... I'm pretty sure the chip can do more since I've seen people with the same codes getting past 285. But, I didn't know if it was the board or the cpu, so I borrowed a 2.4b SL6RZ from a friend. This chip can do 190fsb all day long but in my p4p800 it crapped out at 170. Wouldn't even post. I upped the voltages, backed down the ram timings, tried single channel, turned off every performance enhancing tweak and still didn't get past 170. (All of this using the 1007 final bios btw)

But, if you can find a stable fsb and turn performance to turbo and turn on MAM... it does fly. With my 2.4C @ 3.12, my ti4200(300/600) got up to 14880 points in 3DMark2k1. Overall a nice board but won't OC like the top dogs. It could just be my board though. Who knows.

Exactly my experience with my 2.4b. Normally runs 185-190 FSB, but in this board nothing over 160 is stable.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Apparently the Tom's Hardware article is back up, with an interesting addition at the end..

"..initial tests show that Abit has made the same leap in performance and is now at the same level as Asus."

Thought you Asus people would want to know. :evil:

article

yeah...I'll just be happy to have a working 865PE as my IS7 shorted a resistor
 

donfm

Senior member
Mar 9, 2003
677
0
71
Can somebody compile a list of memory that reliably works with this board. It seems ridiculous you have to use more expensive PC3500 memory to get a board that is rated for PC3200 memory to even work!!! I've seen the Asus recommended memory and it looks like Samsung or Apacer is the only memory that works in all 3 configurations ...ie... single channel, dual channel 2 slots, and dual channel all 4 slots utilized.
 

donfm

Senior member
Mar 9, 2003
677
0
71
That memory is very fast and is rated to work at something like 2-2-2-5. Don't you think it's a crime to slow it down to those settings just to make it work?? Thanks for the info though.
 

Slammy1

Platinum Member
Apr 8, 2003
2,112
0
76
Turn off hyper-threading? It's not supported in Win98, and only somewhat supported in Win2k. Take off HT and turn on turbo, maybe MAM, youll be happy I think.

EDIT: I think Geil 3500 is supposed to work well on this board, but I can't remember where I read that. Maybe AsusForums.
EDIT2: It's not that HyperX is THE memory, it's just the only one I have experience with on this board. And just to make sure (I'm sure it's a typo), you run 200MHz FSB and 400Mz memory frequency, correct? Good luck!

Originally posted by: Revolutionary
Well, I have a problem and would appreciate anybody taking the time to help. My setup:

P4 2.4C
P4P800 non-DX
2x256MB Geil PC3500 Platinum Dual Channel Kit
VisionTek Radeon 9500 Pro
Windows 98 Second Edition

That's really all that's important now. I've never turned on Performance Mode Turbo, or Memory Acceleration Mode.

I'm really having a hard time with stability. I get frequent BSOD OE errors right at boot up, but not every time. When it boots alright, it will work for a while, then bam, OE error. This obviously sounds like a memory problem to me. So I've adjusted all the timings. I've tried running FSB at standard, in Standard performance mode, with SPD timings. No improvement. I've tried FSB 400 and mem SPD, no luck. I've tried memory timings: 2,3,3,7; 2,3,4,7; 2,4,4,7; 2.5,4,4,7, 2.5,4,4,8. Reassuringly, set it at anything any higher than that and it won't even post. I've tried vDIMM at everything from 2.55, 2.65, and 2.75 (Geil typically requires more voltage than other RAM brands). I'm getting kinda frustrated that maybe this RAM isn't going to work. The weird thing is that I've run Memtest at 128MB overnight without any errors, as long as there was nothing loaded into memory (ie, nothing in the task bar other than Windows icons). It also boots pretty well with nothing activated at startup via MSCONFIG. But it does eventually seize if I start running programs (other than memtest). And it doesn't matter what program: IE, Sandra, media player, zonealarm, spybot.

One recurring error, though, is the page fault in Kernel32 error. Could it be Win98? Should I try to install WinXP and see if that is more stable (I'm told it handles memory more efficiently)? Should I just cut my losses, sell the Geil (too late to return it) and buy some Kingston PC3500 (I want the headroom to run to FSB 1000 and up for when I move to Prescott, eventually). Any other suggestions?

One last thing: Could the AGP card cause these faults? I've never heard of such a thing, but I'm a little suspicious of this second-hand 9500 Pro I'm using. It passes all the DirectX tests just fine... are there any diagnostic programs I could use to find out where the errors are occuring and what is causing them?

Thanks to anyone who decides to help!

 

donfm

Senior member
Mar 9, 2003
677
0
71
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
well, it's the chipset not the memory

If you're sitting there with a computer that's crashing it's sort of irrelevent whether it's the chipset or the memory isn't it? You still are out of business. Nobody ever said Corsair was BAD memory. On the contrary it's some of the best. I sort of liken this memory situation to buying a Lamborghini and only driving it in first gear. What a waste of capability and money!!
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
well, it won't crash if you follow the recommendations!

plus how would you know a difference if you didn't look at the numbers in the BIOS? I'm willing to bet that if 2 identical systems were side by side and one was 2-2-2-5 and another was 2.5-3-3-6 you wouldn't know the difference while playing games opening programs etc
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |