**OFFICIAL** AT Battlefield 3 FAQ and News Thread

Page 191 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
Yah i'm done with this game till major patch. Just to much bull shit in it. I esp like how a heli had 72-1 on freakin caspian of all the easiest places to down a heli, he had unlimited flares it seemd. The one was because he ran into a building.

Enjoy the crossing map when top 4 players are mortar users. Or the guy killing team by throwing C4 on buildings and letting them fall on them in a chokehold even though team killing was off, apparently not for buildings.

The best one of all is how my jeep i drove just randomly blew up when i got in it at spawn. The when i spawn back the jeep never comes back in game. lol

Thats not including all the minor graphics problems/physics problem in game. Love not being able to fire bullets through shrubs, but sure as hell can fire through trash compactors in game. oh, the server problems lets not forget.

Rubber banding was not fixed in last server update to.

The game is fun when it works, but that is to few times. I find myself playing 15min, getting disconnected, doing other stuff for a few hours, try again and just like screw it.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,803
581
126
Yah i'm done with this game till major patch. Just to much bull shit in it. I esp like how a heli had 72-1 on freakin caspian of all the easiest places to down a heli, he had unlimited flares it seemd. The one was because he ran into a building.

Co-pilot flares can make helis extremely difficult to shoot down, but it's pretty sad if you're team can't make a coordinated effort of jets + LAV-AA to knock him out.
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
71
Not exactly sure but are the graphic settings adjustable?

Using a gtx560 non ti and it seems i can go low/medium/high but each setting is grayed out?

Am i missing something?
 

Destiny

Platinum Member
Jul 6, 2010
2,309
1
0
Anyone else died to "bad luck"? What does that mean? Did my guy have a heart attack or what... what killed me?!

Also how does teamkill happen? I killed one of my own team yesterday when i was in a tank, i was surrounded by smoke and 10 seconds away from death i have no idea how i killed the guy on my own team lol... Im pretty sure team damage was off.

This happens a few ways:

1. You disable an enemy vehicle and they bailed out - then your team mate runs up to repair it before he jumps in, but you fired one more shot and blew up the vehicle and the explosion kills your team mate.

2. Your team mate is inside or near a building wall and you shoot at the building. Your team mate gets killed by the collapsing building or gets hit from debris/concrete falling from above him caused by destruction/explosions.

Yep - I got killed by my own team mates by these events already...:'(
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
Not exactly sure but are the graphic settings adjustable?

Using a gtx560 non ti and it seems i can go low/medium/high but each setting is grayed out?

Am i missing something?

Yup - keep flipping the options until you get to manual. The low/medium/high/ultra are presets that you can't configure. There's also an "auto" setting that should do a pretty good job of making things playable, but you probably started on that.
 

dyndragon

Member
Jan 9, 2006
124
0
0
Yah i'm done with this game till major patch. Just to much bull shit in it. I esp like how a heli had 72-1 on freakin caspian of all the easiest places to down a heli, he had unlimited flares it seemd. The one was because he ran into a building.

Play with friends on voice chat. It makes any game (and ESPECIALLY in any BF game) 10000x more fun.
 

GullyFoyle

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2000
4,362
11
81
(Console related, sorry.)

New Battlefield Blog Post: Your Quick Guide to the Battlefield 3 Server Browser

Wednesday, 02 November 2011 02:20

We know that some of you are having high-pings when connecting to Battlefield 3 servers and we want to help optimize your server settings! Having a server browser is not commonplace in console games, but it is a very useful feature on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 to get you in the right game with the right people. For example, if you're a US-based player located in California, then you'll want to make sure you're connecting to "West US" servers so that you get the best ping. The following server browser tutorial will help you connect with the best settings. Try it out and then join us in Battlelog if this improved your experience.

1) Start the server browser

Okay, first things first. Go to the MULTIPLAYER option, then move one step down from QUICK MATCH to highlight the SERVER BROWSER option and hit A or X (on Xbox 360/PS3, respectively).

2) Browse available servers

When you enter the server browser, you will se a list of all available servers based on your filter settings. If this is your first time in the server browser, most of your filter settings will be set to ANY, so you will se a wide range iof game modes and maps available to join at your leisure. The two most right hand side columns show whether the server is ranked or not (basically if the server is running default settings, allowing your match be taken up into the official Battlefield 3 stats for your soldier), and what type of server response time you can expect (the more full the ping meter, the better response time and better online performance).

3) Personalize your filter settings

The filter settings is where the server browser really shows its flexibility. Hit R3 (press the right analogue stick down) to enter the filter settings screen. Here, you can set your preferences by hitting A/X in the following criteria (from left to right):
Number of players on the server.
Select a low number if you want to find servers with lots of available slots for you and your squad.

Mode. This is where you select Conquest, Rush, Team Death Match, Sqaud Death Match, Squad Rush, or a combination of them.

Map. Where do you want to play today?

Preset. Hit NORMAL to only see servers running the game in the normal, default mode. This is a good place to start. If you want an added challenge, check HARDCORE to see hardcore servers. On hardcore mode, bullets do more damage, and you have less HUD elements to guide you on the battlefield. It’s a cool twist to the battlefield experience, and you can read more about it here. Finally, check INFANTRY to see servers where all combat vehicles have been removed. This is a good way to start playing Battlefield without the added layer of vehicle combat.

Ranked. Pick YES or NO or leave unmarked to show both. A ranked server has not changed any of the official rules. A match on a ranked server will be officially registered with your Battlefield 3 soldier stats.

Region. If you don’t set a region here, the server browser will show you servers in all regions of the world. IMPORTANT: To minimize the risk of unnecessary lag and/or rubberbanding when playing online, please make sure to manually select the region closest to you. If you are based in the US, please make sure you have not set the region on this screen to Europe, Asia, or Australia.

Once you are happy with your choices, hit B/SQUARE to return to the main server browser screen, where your new filter selections will have taken effect immediately.

4) Go into detail on interesting servers

If you find a server that whets your appetite, just hit A/X to enter the SERVER INFORMATION screen. Here, you will see even more details about the current game on that server. Navigating this screen with the D-PAD or left stick lets you view information such as what maps will be in this server’s rotation, what players are on right now, what game settings the server is running, and more. From here, you can join the game by pressing A/X or back out to the main server browser screen by hitting B/SQUARE.

If you find a server you like, you can FAVORITE it by pressing X/SQUARE. That way, it will always be quickly available for you to rejoin at a later date via the FAVORITES tab. You will typically find that a server that gives you good ping and lagless play will keep doing so when you come back. Also, some players tend to stick to speciifc servers, so chances are you'll also start to recognize your fellow soldiers if you become a regular.

5) Go go go!

Once you are happy with all of your settings and the chosen server, just hit Y/TRIANGLE from the server browser main screen to join and start playing.

TIP: Don’t forget to squad up!
The easiest way to bring your friends in your squad to the game is to create a squad before you join a server. To do so, just follow this guide we created earlier.

Happy gaming!
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
71
Yup - keep flipping the options until you get to manual. The low/medium/high/ultra are presets that you can't configure. There's also an "auto" setting that should do a pretty good job of making things playable, but you probably started on that.

lol thank you so much i don't know why but i had a brain fart and just figured it out...so used to the style of BC2 is why :biggrin:
 

realjetavenger

Senior member
Dec 8, 2008
244
0
76
I hate how I cannot modify my mouse sensitivity on the fly with my MX 518 mouse...I don't want to have to try to go into properties every time I am wanting to adjust it...

My mouse up and down sensitivity buttons have no effect...

What mice does everyone else use that has a high DPI that is adjustable on the fly?

I've been using the g400. Logitech markets it as the update to the mx518 but it really does feel that way. It is also optical but the dpi is higher. I haven't tried modifying the various buttons yet but the dpi adjust on the fly is working in game.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
New HardOCP single-player performance numbers: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/11/02/battlefield_3_single_player_performance_iq_review/7

I posted this in the "performance" thread, but here I'm linking to a page providing an in-depth discussion of quality, specifically AA and HBAO. I think that will be of at least equal interest to people in this thread (you can of course look at all the single-player performance graphs on the other pages, but we've seen that stuff already).

To sum it up, HardOCP's opinion is that MSAA may not be worth the penalty over FXAA, but HBAO is worth the penalty. Both have pretty substantial penalties, by the way.
 
Last edited:

Destiny

Platinum Member
Jul 6, 2010
2,309
1
0
I TOTALLY agree here...

I was off for about 3-4 days from the game with other stuff...

I am not sure what super ability people have unlocked but I about SHAT myself last night when I was on a air vehicle map and I am an engineer...

I pull out the heat seeker dig into a nice hiding spot and start to target a chopper...who as far as I can tell would have NEVER known where I was...

I start to lock on (beep-beep-beep)...in an instant...the front gun swings over to my position and I get blown to hell...

I sat there dead thinking 'HOW IN THE HELL' did they know where I was...I had a good hiding spot...the guy was looking the other direction at the time.

I can only think that he had some unlock for the chopper that alerted of the source of the targeting

It was at about that time I felt like this guy...



Same goes for guys that were sniping with some pretty wicked looking rifles...all at level 25 and above...




As far as I can tell the bipod and the hand grip help a ton with these...the Bipod while kind of a PITA for moving and setting up is awesome IMO once deployed...

I hate how I cannot modify my mouse sensitivity on the fly with my MX 518 mouse...I don't want to have to try to go into properties every time I am wanting to adjust it...

My mouse up and down sensitivity buttons have no effect...

What mice does everyone else use that has a high DPI that is adjustable on the fly?

I think it's IR scope. I don't have it, but I was getting owned by people yesterday within seconds of spawning, and from incredibly long range. From the moment I saw that was an option in the BF3 trailers, I was worried. While BF2 Special Forces had something similar (night vision), everyone was equipped with it, and the "batteries" would run out, so you couldn't just use it all the time.

I just upgraded to a G9x and DPI works, but my G5's on-the-fly DPI adjustment buttons had been working fine as well (the back button, on the other hand, would not register). Is this the only game the MX518 doesn't work in? Do you have the latest drivers?

Air Vehicles can unlock proximity scan to detect nearby enemies without the need or help from spotting (I almost unlocked it)...

Air Vehicles also can unlock radar once they are near maxed out for their Air Vehicles - Radar feature when equiped expands their mini-map and they can automatically see and spot EVERYONE friend or foe even if they are well hidden! :ninja:

The stealth unlock when equiped - prevents you and anyone from spotting the air vehicle for awhile, just to let everyone know in case they think that spotting is broken in the game... it also prevents stingers and infra-red locking for awhile too...
 
Last edited:

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
"Bad luck" is usually a hilarious vehicle mishap.

I had one where I dropped a APC off a raised highway while trying a 3 point turn. It landed on its side and I bailed out but it flipped right on top of me and sat upright.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
What are those flying things? What do they do? Who has them?

Same questions about that little ground robot thing.

Are these things even dangerous? They havent shot at me the rare times i see them :|
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,832
38
91
center what you want to spot in the empty center hexagon.. release..

3D spotted


quick is just a quick press of Q but does not give full 3D spot.

well see i already tried that, i believe thats what i did in BF2. However when i do it now, it doesnt work. it does nothing.

i'll try to do it under the scope, though that sounds more tedious and i'd rather just shoot while i have the chance.

What are those flying things? What do they do? Who has them?

Same questions about that little ground robot thing.

Are these things even dangerous? They havent shot at me the rare times i see them :|

that might be the robot that can disarm bombs, an unlockable for engineers. i dunno about the flying things. havnt seen anything else unusual.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
Try jumping into the river from the bridge in Seine Crossing, you just die. LOL.

Same here. I also spawned in a 'Out of Bounds' area after the MCOMs had been blown up but before you could 'move up'. Made it back to safety with 1 second to spare...

One thing that really annoys me are the teammates that can't stop shining the tactical light in your face.

Teammates who shine the light in my face make me wish friendly fire was on
 

ss284

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,534
0
0
Well I've come to the conclusion that once you are behind the rank/unlock curve in this game you are really doomed..

I don't think this is really that true, with the exception of vehicle unlocks. BC2 had 25% damage increases and 25% more health perks that made a huge difference between a rank 1 player and a rank 25+ player.

BF3 has some better scopes, and more variety of weapons. I feel that there are no real unlocks for infantry that give you that much of an edge. The base weapons I find are pretty decent, and still take roughly the same number of shots to kill, with a few exceptions (like the SCAR-H being amazing, and the m4 being horrible).

Granted, this might just be because I'm at or above the rank curve: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/ssun84/stats/236558203/
 

Destiny

Platinum Member
Jul 6, 2010
2,309
1
0
What are those flying things? What do they do? Who has them?

Same questions about that little ground robot thing.

Are these things even dangerous? They havent shot at me the rare times i see them :|

The Recon Class uses the Flying Robot... the Engineering Class uses the Ground Robot

YES THOSE GROUND ROBOT THINGS ARE DANGEROUS!! Don't believe me look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6VBG22ZBz4

After watching this video I kill them first and ask questions later! D:
I have them unlocked for my engineer class and I tried a few times to kill people by probing them - but people turn around and kill my robot before I had a chance...
 

M0oG0oGaiPan

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2000
7,858
2
0
digitalgamedeals.com
What are those flying things? What do they do? Who has them?

Same questions about that little ground robot thing.

Are these things even dangerous? They havent shot at me the rare times i see them :|

MAV. Lets you spot everyone while you hide behind a tree. Nets you tons of points. My friend was using his one map and I thought he was afk the whole game.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
The Recon Class uses the Flying Robot... the Engineering Class uses the Ground Robot

YES THOSE GROUND ROBOT THINGS ARE DANGEROUS!! Don't believe me look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6VBG22ZBz4

After watching this video I kill them first and ask questions later! D:
I have them unlocked for my engineer class and I tried a few times to kill people by probing them - but people turn around and kill my robot before I had a chance...

Lmao robot wars :awe: Hes playing that thing like its GTA, hit n run!
 

GullyFoyle

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2000
4,362
11
81
Patrick Bach: Back to Karkand’s map Wake Island “has had quite a lot of changes”

By Alex Johnson

So then, Battlefield 3 finally made it out and it's only gone and shipped 5 million. So it's probably a good thing that they've decided to release a follow up expansion pack entitled 'Back to Karkand'.

The expansion pack contains 4 maps, which are all re-imagined Battlefield favourites, a handful of new weapons and even a sweet topping air-combat action.

SO. When we asked Patrick Bach about the upcoming expansion pack for Battlefield 3 we asked about the classic map Wake Island (which is included), he told us how it's changed.

XG247 (Sam Clay): Let’s talk about the map “Wake Island”, personally one of my favourites. Have you made it look a lot better, or added additional areas to the map?

Patrick Bach:What we’re doing with all the maps is, we’re taking them from where they were in time and taking them into the future so there’s been changes in the environments based on the modern setting. “Wake Island” has had quite a lot of changes to its environment since the days of 1942.

XG247 (Sam Clay): What’s happened there?

Patrick Bach: It doesn’t look exactly the same as it did back then, it’s actually quite interesting to see the changes that it’s been going through - we didn’t want to just make a copy of the map, it’s the same with “Strike at Karkand”, we didn’t want to copy, we wanted to add something new to it. It’s not the same foggy environment, it’s like a clear sky and it’s more detailed in general and that’s the same as all maps.

It's always dangerous when you change a classic map, lots of die hards are going to be up in arms so DICE really have to tread carefully here, but when you look at the standard of Battlefield 3 as a whole, it's safe to think it'll be changed for the better.

Patrick Soderlund Talks Battlefield 3

EA's executive VP talks to us about Battlefield 3's success, competition and future.
November 1, 2011

by Andrew Goldfarb

Following huge pre-order numbers, Battlefield 3 launched last week to positive reviews. Yesterday, we learned that the game sold five million copies worldwide during its first week in stores, and that early online problems are being addressed. In the wake of the game's launch, Electronic Arts executive vice president Patrick Soderlund spoke to us about what comes next for Battlefield 3, including its competition against Call of Duty later this month.

"We have had a fantastic first week where we sold five million units around the world. That means that this is the fastest selling game in the history of EA. I find that to be pretty impressive," Soderlund told us. "Having been a part of building that feels pretty good. This is obviously driven by our fans and the good reception that the game has gotten over the world. It's just almost gone bigger than we anticipated. It's great, obviously, but it's been a daunting week."

One of the most impressive aspects of the game's launch is its international appeal. The game has spread to several continents and according to Soderlund, that's one of the achievements the team is the most proud of.

"Clearly it's really cool how widespread the user volume is. It's all over the world. It's people from Tokyo to LA to Sydney to Stockholm to London to everywhere," he said. "People are playing this thing, and just to see pictures and photos of game stores' humungous lines waiting and lining up to buy the game, that just feels great, to be honest. And so we're very humbled by that, clearly, and appreciative of the support that we've gotten from our fans all over the world, and that's great."

Beyond worldwide appeal, Soderlund is also happy to see a different audience coming to Battlefield. While longtime fans of the franchise are certainly still interested, the game has also spread to a more mainstream audience, which was one of DICE's goals.

"The fact that we're seeing a lot of new Battlefield players come into the franchise means a lot to me," Soderlund said. "That's been something that I've been trying to push on for a long time, that we wanted to go wider, become a broader, established IP, and it seems like that's really working for us, so that's cool."

More interest also means more players, and the volume has been more than EA or DICE could have predicted. This meant the game's online modes were plagued with trouble early on, though Soderlund says the worst is over.

"Given the unprecedented user volume that we've seen, we have obviously had some hiccups during the week, and we've been working very actively on solving those, and most of the issues are behind us," he told us. "The game is performing a lot better. Most people had a very smooth weekend, and we continue to improve the service as we go, basically."

The game's launch has been unquestionably successful, but Soderlund admitted that he still would have preferred a longer development cycle.

"When you're in games development, there's one thing that you wish that you had, and that's more time. It doesn't matter if you spend a year or ten years building a game; you always want more time," he said.

In the weeks after the game's launch, more content will be coming for Battlefield 3, including the much-anticipated Back to Karkand map pack. The way Soderlund sees it, Battlefield 3's launch is only the beginning, and content will continue to be provided regularly to keep players interested.

"The Battlefield 3 launch was the starting point," Soderlund told us. "We look at this as a long-term service, where we want the consumers to continually get updates and new content and hopefully improvements to the product as we go. So the launch was the start, and we're not letting the foot off the gas. We're going to continue to push and obviously improve the experience, give more content as we go and hopefully make people want to stay inside our universe."

Soderlund believes that EA and DICE's plan to provide content will be enough to keep gamers loyal, even in the face of upcoming holiday season competition from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 and other big titles.

"The holiday season is clearly very competitive, as we know. We all respect what Call of Duty brings and what they're going to come with, and I think that we have an industry-leading multiplayer game that will make people want to stay with us, frankly. If you look at all the reviews that we've gotten, not a single one that I've seen has been negative towards the multiplayer. In fact, many state that the multiplayer is the multiplayer experience to have, the best in the world. And if I can continue to harness that and work on improving that and give the consumers more of that, then hopefully they're going to feel loyal to us and stay."

"My focus has got to be on our product, and not necessarily on the others. And right now we're out in the market, and that's all I know. When they come out, they come out, and I wish them the best of luck. They're partners in this industry, and I play all their games and I look forward to many of them, and all I can do is try and make sure that people stay interested and want to have more Battlefield."

EA will also continue to look toward the future. A potential Battlefield release for Wii U was hinted at during E3 2011, and Sony's upcoming PlayStation Vita also offers an opportunity for a franchise like Battlefield to take a foothold in the portable marketplace. We asked Soderlund about both platforms.

"First of all, I think both of those platforms are innovative and interesting for our industry, and I look forward to both of them," he said. "Whether we're going to appear with Battlefield 3 on those platforms is still not announced, and frankly nothing I can talk about yet, unfortunately."

In the meantime, Soderlund's focus will continue to be on Back to Karkand, which will be released in December. The pack features Battlefield 2 maps reimagined using the new Frostbite 2 engine, and Soderlund promises that it will be a big pack, with plenty to add for Battlefield 3 gamers.

"There's a lot of destruction in BF3, but the Karkand map pack, when you play it, it's a different level, even more so than in BF3, of destruction in there," he told us. "So I think people are really going to like that, and see it as something fresh. When you play Karkand, it's just crazy the amount of destruction that goes on in there. And that's a deliberate decision by the small team who made the pack, to really dial that up and make it even more prominent than it is in the Battlefield 3 'vanilla' experience."

Planet Battlefield -NVIDIA Battlefield 3 TDR Fix Soon + AMD 11.10 Catalyst Released

Tuesday, 1 November, 2011 at 20:42 PST | ^Scott^ | Print News

NVIDIA has been tracking down TDR (Timeout Detection and Recovery errors) that users have been experiencing on the latest GeForce drivers with Battlefield 3. They have even asked some users to send in their graphics cards for testing, where they have been able to reproduce the same problems. They note this will be a must fix for their upcoming driver release this month (not this week or next). Thanks Blues News.

1) Battlefield 3 bugs - So far we have been able to reproduce the major Battlefield 3 issues and have marked this as must fix for the upcoming driver in November.

Yesterday, AMD released new Catalyst 11.10 drivers, which include performance fixes for Battlefield 3 and an updated CrossFire profile. Grab those here.
New profiles added to this release:
- Battlefield 3 – Provides great CrossFire scaling and resolves stuttering issues when running in CrossFire mode
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |