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VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
So your stance is that the only fair and balanced way to combat choppers and jets is with your teams choppers and jets? What if your team doesn't have anyone who can fly? You are just screwed then?

I'm not looking for 1 shot cheap kills with the stinger, I'm just looking for something when playing as infantry to try and combat getting crushed by a chopper.

So by your logic why aren't the choppers considered cheap and overpowered when pitted against infantry?

Because they are weak against jets. Rock, paper, scissors. Not rock, rock, rock. Buffing stingers would be awful for gameplay, and I almost exclusively play infantry. Very rarely do I have a chopper go 30-0 against any team I play on. Even if it does happen you don't need to make it impossible for skilled pilots to do so.

When I play infantry my spm is over 550 on almost any server, rush, cq at 24 players and up. I often times go like 60-10 playing infantry. Do they need to put a gun in the game that seeks out my head to punish me for being better?

No.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
People who complain about the stinger not doing enough damage to air vehicles must be idiots. It would unbalance the game totally having them do more damage. The stinger is only in the game for infantry to be able to scare the air vehicles away from them. Not to own the skies. The jets are there to protect the infantry from choppers.

This would make sense if everyone had access to choppers or jets, but they dont. Or if the jets and choppers had the same unlocks, but they dont. You have one attack chopper, and 32 players trying to use it. The nature of the chopper means its already overpowered. I have gotten 10 or so kills in 30 sec as a gunner. I dont see why people think these chopppers should stay in the air forever. You already can outrun stingers, use flares, ecm , duck behind environment, whatever, already making it so that they have a hard time even hitting a chopper, but when it does you think it shouldnt do anything? Seriously, wtf?

If you're getting owned by a chopper you don't need a stinger that 1 hit kills a chopper, you need a better player flying your jet. When stingers disabled in one hit the air vehicles were a pointless joke, and had no worth. Battlefield is about teamwork, not about your wish to be able to get cheap kills with an overpowered weapons. As they stand now a group of players with stingers can take out a jet/chopper, just like a group of players can take out a tank.

Well, if you are getting hit with a stinger then you should just be a better pilot. Chopper kills are cheap kills. I have went ~50-5 (or variations of a 10 KDR) many times by just being a gunner with a decent viper pilot. Does that mean I'm a 50-5 player? No. 50-10 maybe, but I digress. :biggrin: It means I had a tremendous advantage over the other players. While this isnt an infantry only game like COD, its not a flight simulator either. Most players are on foot because there simply are not enough vehicles on the maps. If the purpose of infantry is to be fodder for choppers then this game is failing harder than it already is. If your chopper gets blown up, get in line for a new one or get out there and cap some flags.

Better players spend less time staring at the sky, and more time concentrating on what can make themselves useful to their team.

"Oh look all our flags are capped and we're bleeding tickets like crazy."
"Hey, I know. I'll stare at the sky with my no skill heatseeker and maybe I'll pull a .3 k/d ratio."

I would almost guarauntee you that any player with a spm of over 500 has less than 15 stinger kills no matter the amount of hours they have played.

Thats easy to say when choppers and jets aren't crapping on you. You dont take out the choppers, they can prevent you from capping at least half of the flags. Then you have to deal with the other 30 players. Then most of the colonels either switch sides or leave, so you're really f'd. And by the way, thats probably how people maintain their stats, by switching sides or quitting. I dont care how good you think you are, you are not going to cap and hold flags with a decent, not great, but decent chopper pilot and gunner flying around. I have stopped teams that were streamrolling dead in their tracks by getting in the gunner seat.

I'm not saying that the original stinger damage model is the answer, but neither is the way it is now. Maybe make it so that they are not that easy to evade by increasing the range and reducing the lock on time or something.
 
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Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
When I play infantry my spm is over 550 on almost any server, rush, cq at 24 players and up. I often times go like 60-10 playing infantry. Do they need to put a gun in the game that seeks out my head to punish me for being better?

No.

A better analogy is like juggernaut in COD. Thats the kind of advantage a chopper has, except its faster and has better guns.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
Thats easy to say when choppers and jets aren't crapping on you. You dont take out the choppers, they can prevent you from capping at least half of the flags. Then you have to deal with the other 30 players. Then most of the colonels either switch sides or leave, so you're really f'd. And by the way, thats probably how people maintain their stats, by switching sides or quitting. I dont care how good you think you are, you are not going to cap and hold flags with a decent, not great, but decent chopper pilot and gunner flying around. I have stopped teams that were streamrolling dead in their tracks by getting in the gunner seat.

I'm not saying that the original stinger damage was the answer, but neither is the way it is now.

So if I understand correctly the way to solve the problem of one team being better than the other is to remove vehicles from the game?

I will say it again. If you're getting owned by jet/choppers the solution isn't to make infantry overpowered against them. The solution is for your team to have better pilots. I'm sure you've had those rounds where you see your two jets circling the skies and you never even see any enemy chopper or jet. Do you even contemplate pulling out a stinger during rounds like that?

The reason is because you have good pilots and the other team's vehicles have no chance. Balancing choppers should not be about making stingers a 1 hit kill on them. It's about someone on your team being able to help the team out by providing air superiority in a jet. Teamwork is key in battelfield, and if your team doesn't have good pilots of course the opposing team is going to dominate you from the air.

There are also times where a team will have amazing pilots and awful infantry. The team with better infantry still wins. Often times people get put on an all around bad team and are unable to do anything so their rage makes them feel like the game is broken. I'm sorry, but at no point in time should a single infantry soldier be able to dominate the skies. As it stands now a coordinated squad can still take out any air vehicle in short order with stingers or javelins, and that's the way battlefield is supposed to be.
 
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imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
Man i was having a blast on a server i finally found. The some hacker ruined it.

I never saw that type of aimbot before to, he was just parked in jet firing straight ahead without even moving and killing people over behind him. Normally they have to at least face the direction of enemy. lol
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
There are also times where a team will have amazing pilots and awful infantry. The team with better infantry still wins.

Just got done with a couple Caspian rounds just like this. Their pilots had quick turning skill and had reached the air radar level and were just knocking most of our jets out of the sky before we could manage anything.

In the meantime... we just took all control points because they're tank drivers were pretty weak. Things were over pretty quick.


Side note: from what I can determine (still another test to do), my BSODs might be tied to my crossfinity setup and the fact that I was playing the game only on one screen, which seemed to make the computer crap its pants when it had to process that other monitors existed, but weren't being used... or something. So now I'm playing at full 6048X1200 (bezel comp) and it's slower FPS for sure (though I could probably turn down a bunch of effects) but doesn't crash out between maps.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
So if I understand correctly the way to solve the problem of one team being better than the other is to remove vehicles from the game?

Its to have a reasonable ability for the players to remove the vehicles from the game. You can claim soflam/javelin is the answer, but all the jet or chopper has to do is cover the other half of the map until the soflam is spotted and taken out. And you say team, you mean one or two guys having such and advantage that dominates the other team. Theres no teamwork really required to keep it in the air.

I will say it again. If you're getting owned by jet/choppers the solution isn't to make infantry overpowered against them. The solution is for your team to have better pilots. I'm sure you've had those rounds where you see your two jets circling the skies and you never even see any enemy chopper or jet. Do you even contemplate pulling out a stinger during rounds like that?

I could make the same argument for getting shot down...just get better pilots, so then 1 shot stingers shouldnt be a problem.

The reason is because you have good pilots and the other team's vehicles have no chance. Balancing choppers should not be about making stingers a 1 hit kill on them. It's about someone on your team being able to help the team out by providing air superiority in a jet. Teamwork is key in battelfield, and if your team doesn't have good pilots of course the opposing team is going to dominate you from the air.

Are we playing the same game? :biggrin: This is where we will probably continue to disagree. I dont think BF should be about air superiority. It should be about all three phases with checks and balances. The balance from air to tanks and infantry is one sided. You get shot with a stinger, it should do real damage. You get shot down, get in a line an wait for another one, or go out and cap flags. Its not like the choppers dont respawn, and it gives other people a shot at flying. Then we can get more of those better pilots that you think are a dime a dozen.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
I'm a big tanker, but I think the solution is really to make vehicles more limited than they are. I can't tell you how often I see some enemy pilot use a jet or a heli to ram something, and jump out on purpose just to do something ridiculous like steal the enemy chopper or whatever.

Limited spawns for all vehicles would really bring the game a lot more meaning, as I said before, perhaps 2 spawns for ground vehicles, and a single spawn for air vehicles, with limited player spawns. Not to make the entire game and all servers like this, but offer it to serious players.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Oh, and 'instant vehicles' and 'fast respawn' should DIAF. It totally removes all meaning from the game. Dying or losing a vehicle should be more than a 5 second inconvenience.
 

Destiny

Platinum Member
Jul 6, 2010
2,309
1
0
People may know this but you don't need to stay with the actual SOFLAM unit. Deploy the SOFLAM wherever you want, hit "e" to back out, run somewhere safe, behind a wall, hidden somewhere, pull up your soflam display again, and click left mouse I think to access it. You can deploy the SOFLAM anywhere and then re-enter it from anywhere as long as it hasn't been deystroyed. I usually try to set it up in a prime spot with a good view, drop a spawn beacon nearby, and hide. Then I can spawn on my beacon and set another one up again. Good luck.

Thanks! I found this out a few days ago... but sometimes I still get a tank shell in my face - when my team is under fire from a tank and I need to set up the SOFLAM quick...
 

Destiny

Platinum Member
Jul 6, 2010
2,309
1
0
So who'd I see last night on that metro server?

Here is the ATOT = Origin list:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32712732&postcount=746

It might have been me (ROADKILL_626) - I was trying to get assignments points with the PP19 and I was one of the few constant rushers and keep getting killed... I saw an ATOT member that I didn't recognize... I jumped on another Metro Server and saw QuantumPion just pwning the other team... I think he racked up 80+ to 6 to K/D ratio then the server booted me for unknown reason...
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
If air is over powered (probably is a touch), simply increase the time on flares. This puts air vehicles out of the game for a little bit as a good pilot will flare once, possibly eat one stinger and bug out, OR start having to LoS missiles meaning they aren't as active killing people.

Voilla.

Singers don't 1 shot air, and air fears stingers since they will get hit after they pop flares or run.
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
71
Man i was having a blast on a server i finally found. The some hacker ruined it.

I never saw that type of aimbot before to, he was just parked in jet firing straight ahead without even moving and killing people over behind him. Normally they have to at least face the direction of enemy. lol

Pretty lame hack if you ask me the guy is only hitting the space bar and the bullets fly in the direction of enemies...

Why buy the phucking game then buy the hack so you quickly finish the game the lazy way?

Would be like me buying a super fast car but decides everyone else but me can drive it.....what is the point?
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
If air is over powered (probably is a touch), simply increase the time on flares. This puts air vehicles out of the game for a little bit as a good pilot will flare once, possibly eat one stinger and bug out, OR start having to LoS missiles meaning they aren't as active killing people.

Voilla.

Singers don't 1 shot air, and air fears stingers since they will get hit after they pop flares or run.

Exactly stingers cause the air vehicles to run away. That's the point.

Personally I wish they would bring back the at4 from BC2 in place of javelin and stingers for infantry. A skilled player could down any chopper in BC2 with one rocket. That actually took skill to do. I'm sick of developer removing skill from their games to provide mass appeal.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
I think if they had stationary anti-air on the ground (not the one in base), like the have anti-tank it would go a long way in helping.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
I think if they had stationary anti-air on the ground (not the one in base), like the have anti-tank it would go a long way in helping.

I dont get this either. They place stationary AA in such a way that it cant do anything except prevent spawn rape. To steal from TFC/2, this should be something an engineer, or group of engineers could construct. Support could resupply it. There are a million ways to address this without 1 hit stinger kills, and promote teamwork (har har), but something should be done.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
I dont get this either. They place stationary AA in such a way that it cant do anything except prevent spawn rape. To steal from TFC/2, this should be something an engineer, or group of engineers could construct. Support could resupply it. There are a million ways to address this without 1 hit stinger kills, and promote teamwork (har har), but something should be done.

Yeah that's weird. Even if it were located without the typical crappy location, it still doesn't have all that effective of a range, so I don't see why they don't put it at the front of the best instead of in the rear at least. It's especially bad on Caspian, they're both in completely illogical locations.
 

Mandres

Senior member
Jun 8, 2011
944
58
91
There's no need to change anything with the stingers, helicopters should splat infantry against the wall if they're dumb enough to stick their heads out.

If anything, I feel like infantry are too strong against tanks in this game. It's far too easy for a single engineer to cat-and-mouse around the rubble and land 3 rpgs on an enemy tank. How many rpgs does an engineer start with by default? 4? Then it should take 6 to disable a tank.

A lone infantry should have -0- chance of winning an encounter against a tank or chopper. Mines and c4 from a single guy should disable, not destroy.

Tanks should be rolling death machines that infantry cower and run from. Right now they're far too fragile. When a tank rolls in to cap a flag the enemy soldiers should be blowing up team chat in a panic calling for help from their team's armor/helis, not whipping out rpgs and rolling right along. Tank vs. tank fights should decide matches, because whoever wins should hold a major advantage until respawn.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
There's no need to change anything with the stingers, helicopters should splat infantry against the wall if they're dumb enough to stick their heads out.

If anything, I feel like infantry are too strong against tanks in this game. It's far too easy for a single engineer to cat-and-mouse around the rubble and land 3 rpgs on an enemy tank. How many rpgs does an engineer start with by default? 4? Then it should take 6 to disable a tank.

A lone infantry should have -0- chance of winning an encounter against a tank or chopper. Mines and c4 from a single guy should disable, not destroy.

Tanks should be rolling death machines that infantry cower and run from. Right now they're far too fragile. When a tank rolls in to cap a flag the enemy soldiers should be blowing up team chat in a panic calling for help from their team's armor/helis, not whipping out rpgs and rolling right along. Tank vs. tank fights should decide matches, because whoever wins should hold a major advantage until respawn.

Disagree %100. Its not easy at all for a engineer to cat and mouse vs a tank. Tanks guns can destroy walls and kill person behind it, no cat and mouse. Esp on open maps.

C4 imo should disable tanks with 1, killed with 2. Right now you need 2 on back of tank to kill it or 2 on side one on back. This is SO HARD, tanks spot to easy with a gunner to even get close. The only off chance you can do this is if they have smoke up..which is rare.

Its hard enough finding eng on maps, let alone ones with c4 instead of repair tool.
 

basslover1

Golden Member
Aug 4, 2004
1,921
0
76
I C4 tanks all the time. I've gone as far as getting quadruple kills because a squad was stupid enough to load up in an LAV on Seinie, the biggest cluster-f of all maps. That was actually really easy used the parked cars for cover.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
I C4 tanks all the time. I've gone as far as getting quadruple kills because a squad was stupid enough to load up in an LAV on Seinie, the biggest cluster-f of all maps. That was actually really easy used the parked cars for cover.

Certain maps its easier than others certainly,but its pretty damn hard.
Man the M98B is the best gun, its the first sniper rifle that feels right, i can't believe how pathetic the others are until you get it.
 
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