**OFFICIAL** AT Battlefield 3 FAQ and News Thread

[GullyFoyle]

New Battlefield Blog Post - Welcome Inside DICE!

(SWE)xokory | 03.03.12

We are happy to present the brand new “Inside DICE” series! This is where all of our fans will get candid and personal reflections directly from the people working with Battlefield 3™ and our expansion packs and updates. First out is DICE General Manager Karl Magnus Troedsson, revealing his thoughts on community transparency and on returning to GDC one year after the big Battlefield 3 presentation.


I’m very excited to open up our new “Inside DICE” section. Engaging in direct dialogue with our fans has been on my agenda for a while, and we will do that partly via the new blog series that you are now reading.

When it comes to upcoming game updates, tweaks, fixes, and new features, this is where the producers, programmers, and designers personally will tell you what they are doing, why they are doing it, and when you can expect to see their changes in the game. More than just information on dates and a change list, you will also get to meet the people behind the keyboards actually making it happen, how they go about designing these changes, what obstacles they stumble across, and how many semlor they had for fika. Besides keeping you better informed on upcoming updates, we hope this blog series will give you an insight into game development and post-launch game support itself, as well as into Swedish culture working at DICE, and working as a community manager.

Going Back to San Fran
So what’s on my mind right now? Well, I’m super psyched about putting the final pieces together for an exciting presentation we’re taking to GDC in San Francisco. For any fan, GDC will bring some very exciting news about the future of Battlefield 3.

Presenting Battlefield 3 at E3 2011, seconds before Patrick Bach plays the "Thunder Run" mission. Fond memories.

I love doing live presentations, but it’s also somewhat nerve-wracking at times. I’m up there on stage, representing the team at DICE and all their hard work. They spend blood, sweat and tears making our games, and that’s why I always strive for rock solid presentations. But sometimes I stumble on the language. English is my second language, and this can make for some interesting hiccups on stage. Like at E3 last year when I apparently coined a new meme. In Sweden we don’t say “fingers crossed” but rather we “hold our thumbs” to express the same wish. What came out on stage became the now famous “thumbs crossed”, which my colleagues at DICE refuse to let me forget. Anyway, I hope to see some of you in San Francisco, and you will definitely be able to read about the latest announcements after GDC.

I’ve also been swamped with other exciting work lately, which is the reason I’ve been pretty quiet on the Twitter front. I’ve worked hard with the DICE management team to plan the long term goals of DICE as a studio and our upcoming games, and I feel very good about where we are and where we are headed. We have so many great ideas for where to take DICE and Battlefield™ in the future! But that’s for another blog post another time.

The fast moving industry
Part of what I love about the games industry is that it moves so fast. We’re not making snap decisions at DICE or EA, but decisions can still change overnight. At one point in time, we were planning to announce our next expansion pack in February. Turned out it wasn’t feasible, but not before word got out that it was in the plans. That happens. And it will happen again. It’s just part of the big and elaborate puzzle where sometimes plans change at an amazing speed. As I’m writing this, we are still deciding on the final pieces of this puzzle, but consider GDC as the next info drop from us at DICE.

The ever changing nature of what we do is one of the reasons we will always be careful what we say and when we say it. Why? Because if we say “Next week we’ll announce a new expansion pack” and then change our minds (for whatever reason), the normal reaction is disappointment. Being unclear about future content could also raise more questions than answers. We’re doing X on format Y? What about format Z and W? If we don’t have those answers, we want to be able to say why. Going forward, we will work hard on being clearer and more regular in our communication, and explain the rationale behind some of our decisions.

Then again, some huge events just have to premiere on GDC. Why? Because, and this is maybe explaining the obvious, we want as many eyes as possible on what we do. It’s how we get attention, it’s how we grow, and it’s how we make sure we can keep delivering blockbuster games out of a studio that started as a small group of friends creating pinball games for the Amiga.

The next Battlefield 3 update: What is it? When is it?
So, in the interest of openness: The next client update for Battlefield 3 on all platforms is a big one. It’s been in the works for quite some time now, and the reason it’s taking its time is we want to make it a really great update. That and the fact that each client update on console is in part governed by first party and for technical reasons have some lead time. There is a reason that we can’t update the game every time we fix one small thing. Rather, we need to pile stuff up until we have a decent sized update that makes sense to push live (in extreme cases, we make exceptions, like when we pushed our VOIP chat fix live in a separate client update on PlayStation® 3).

For a while there, it looked like the next Battlefield 3 update would go live in February. So we messaged that. Guess what? It didn’t happen. We wanted to fill it with even more content, which takes extra time. We are now aiming to get this update out this spring, and will have a clear date closer to release.

This Battlelog News post details some of what is in the planned spring update, although please keep in mind that this update is still subject to change. More detail about what we are adding to the game will be revealed at GDC, and after that, we will start to go in-depth on specific features from the change list. All in all, you will pretty soon know why I think 2012 will be a great Battlefield year.

In our next post in the “Inside DICE” series, we will talk in more detail about some of the changes we are making in our next update, why we are making them, how we are making them, how we are basing them on community feedback, and why we think this makes the game better.

In the widget area to the right, you will also find some basic information about what we have done so far in terms of supporting Battlefield 3 after launch. As we continue this series, you will always be able to get the latest data at a glance about upcoming updates, any current change lists, and more. Looking at that data just now, I can honestly say we are one of the studios that take the greatest care of our game post-launch.

This is just the start of the “Inside DICE” series. Expect a mix of long, in-depth features on weapon balancing mixed with spur of the moment mobile photos of random events at the DICE office. I love coming in to work every day, and I want you to experience part of what makes being at DICE so rewarding.

Me with my first crush, Mine Storm on the Vectrex.

What do you want to read next?
Consider “Inside DICE” officially open. And consider it your chance to let us know what you want to read next. The comments section on our new blog is pretty neat, so just hop in and let us know what you think, or use the poll below to vote on some post ideas we are toying around with. My DICE colleagues will make sure to check in, so this is a chance for you to engage in dialogue with the people behind Battlefield 3.

I’m happy to have cut this ribbon. This is the place where we will delve deep into matters, so if you prefer your Battlefield info a bit more tweet-sized, follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Battlelog forums, Battlelog News section, in-game tickers, standalone forums, or any of our other channels where we regularly communicate with our fans. Looking forward to hearing from you!

Cheers
Karl Magnus Troedsson
General Manager, DICE
Follow Karl Magnus @L_Twin


You've just read the first "Inside DICE" post. Which of the below ideas for future posts sounds the most exciting to you?

• We're Going In: Adapting the Battlefield Gameplay to a New Environment
• Fight for Every Inch: Fine-tuning Map Layout to Create the Perfect TDM Experience
• Walking a Razor's Edge: Upcoming Weapon Balancing Tweaks
• Fixing It: Game Updates 101
• The Sound and the Fury: Creating the Soundscape of All-out Warfare
• Hey, that's My Ride: The Rise and Fall of the MAV Elevator

View Results

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I had a good time on Bazaar with you Vivi thanks

 

[Anubis]

I still only play conquest, like a boss.

same here, ive only played rush to get the unlocks, i prob should play some SQDM to finish them out but i don't really care

 

[SLU Aequitas]

Really enjoying the Bazaar maps with two caveats:

1.) Relatively even teams. With uneven teams this map sadly devolves into a base rape fest, granted many maps do, but I notice it a lot more on this (and Metro)

2.) Lack of MAV elevator exploiting.

 

[Zargon]

i do love dropping the mav on top of a store front and collecting survelleince ribbons on it

 

[Ariae]

Last few times I tried playing SQDM it would never let me spawn on my squad. Only random spawn points. Anyone else experience that?

They should be fixing the retarded spawn points in the next patch.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I know this is a pro-BF3 and apparently pro-casualization, pro-meatgrind forum but nevertheless, here's a video commentary I found about the death of Battlefield:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiLs4yVf0s

 

[SLU Aequitas]

I know this is a pro-BF3 and apparently pro-casualization, pro-meatgrind forum but nevertheless, here's a video commentary I found about the death of Battlefield:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiLs4yVf0s

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed and is being a NegativeNancy...

 

[Ackmed]

Being blinded by a flashlight in day light should be the #1 fix in the next patch. Its the most idiotic thing in the game.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed and is being a NegativeNancy...

I might wake up on the right side of the bed tomorrow, but BF3 will still be casualized and meatgrinderized...

 

[DeadFred]

I know this is a pro-BF3 and apparently pro-casualization, pro-meatgrind forum but nevertheless, here's a video commentary I found about the death of Battlefield:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiLs4yVf0s

Okay, I watched the vid now here are some of my rambling thoughts. :biggrin:

In that vid he kept going on and on about how DICE removed the teamwork, WTF is he talking about? If you have a group of friends and want to play as a squad or team its very easy to do, just create a party in Battlelog or get into a TS3/Mumble type VOIP server. The vehicles are there, the custom classes are there, now squad up, get in there, cap those flags, hold them, and win the damn game!

DICE finally makes a FPS worth playing (meaning you can actually hit and kill who or what you are shooting at) and the old school BF players go ballistic on them.

@ Alpha, I know you want bigger more spread maps and a few of those would be fine with me too. I just dont understand how people can complain about there being no teamwork, I mean its there if you want it.

Communication and teamwork in any team based game will allow for far better results than just going at it as every man for himself. Apparently CoD is not considered a team based game on these forums, but I was in a CoD4 clan that scrimmed in Pro Mod quite a bit, and we had several teams that played both TDM and Search and Destroy with great effect.

Also in that video he kept that stupid game up in the background tweaking away at endless, pointless crap in the UI. If I cared about anything like that Id forget about FPS's and go play a MMORPG. First person shooters, are for SHOOTERS!!!! I dont care what color boots my character is wearing while Im peering through my scope getting ready to take the top of your noggin off.

 

[DeadFred]

Being blinded by a flashlight in day light should be the #1 fix in the next patch. Its the most idiotic thing in the game.

Its far better than it was at release, before it would blind you from across a map!

BTW, have you ever had a 200 lumens Surefire tac light in your face? Even in the daylight it will blind the crap out of you at close range.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

I might wake up on the right side of the bed tomorrow, but BF3 will still be casualized and meatgrinderized...

Sorry you don't like the changes. I'd love for some bigger maps with better flag spacing, but that hardly means BF3 is a "casualized" game, or that it isn't BF3.

As for the video, it's a one-man diatribe up to about 4:30, where I couldn't listen anymore. EA/DICE removed a whole lot of core features, yet he neglects to mention any of these removed features other than game-base squad VOIP, which is an extremely weak ding against teamwork. Honestly, it's really made almost no difference--in my BF2 days, almost every organized group I played on used Vent/TS, and the times I went pubbing, the percentage of players actually using the squad VOIP was laughably low. I'm now in the situation where I go in with my group, just using the Battlelog-side VOIP, which essentially works just as well for me as squad-based VOIP. And if I'm not with a group...well, essentially the same damn thing as BF2 in my experience.

Do I prefer the removal? No, but the argument being made is still pretty damn weak.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Okay, I watched the vid now here are some of my rambling thoughts. :biggrin:

In that vid he kept going on and on about how DICE removed the teamwork, WTF is he talking about? If you have a group of friends and want to play as a squad or team its very easy to do, just create a party in Battlelog or get into a TS3/Mumble type VOIP server. The vehicles are there, the custom classes are there, now squad up, get in there, cap those flags, hold them, and win the damn game!

DICE finally makes a FPS worth playing (meaning you can actually hit and kill who or what you are shooting at) and the old school BF players go ballistic on them.

@ Alpha, I know you want bigger more spread maps and a few of those would be fine with me too. I just dont understand how people can complain about there being no teamwork, I mean its there if you want it.

Communication and teamwork in any team based game will allow for far better results than just going at it as every man for himself. Apparently CoD is not considered a team based game on these forums, but I was in a CoD4 clan that scrimmed in Pro Mod quite a bit, and we had several teams that played both TDM and Search and Destroy with great effect.

Also in that video he kept that stupid game up in the background tweaking away at endless, pointless crap in the UI. If I cared about anything like that Id forget about FPS's and go play a MMORPG. First person shooters, are for SHOOTERS!!!! I dont care what color boots my character is wearing while Im peering through my scope getting ready to take the top of your noggin off.

Firstly, not everyone has regular people they play with that can simply use teamspeak or whatever; we need automatic squad VOIP. Commo rose doesn't work(can't be heard and no text reports), so you can forget about deliberate teamwork with the people who aren't in your squad/teamspeak channel. Secondly, audiospotting, 3D spotting and killcam motivate even the staunchest teamplayer to stop capping flags and start chasing down kills.

And while saying there is NO teamwork is an obvious embellishment, the game has removed any strategic aspects that may have previously existed, for example, cappable airfields/tank bases/helicopter bases, and the game's pace just plain makes it easier for many people to throw tactics out the window and just zerg.

That's the short version of the story, it could be told in a 10,000 word format. You praise the fact that you can "finally hit who you shoot at" but the at least to me the game made the infantry weapon effectiveness at range too much; there was plenty of room between BF2 and BF3 for a middle ground there that would still be described by you as "you can hit people" that wouldn't be described by me as "too deadly at range".

But with all that said...if they were to have huge maps with strategic play(hint: the largest BF3 maps are mid-medium at best), the game might actually be fun just for that one change. Maps big enough that you might have to drive a bit to reach an engagement( and I mean 45-60 seconds, NOT 5 minutes like ArmA). But sadly, DICE wants you to be instantly within firing range of the enemy no matter where you spawn.

Sorry you don't like the changes. I'd love for some bigger maps with better flag spacing, but that hardly means BF3 is a "casualized" game, or that it isn't BF3.

As for the video, it's a one-man diatribe up to about 4:30, where I couldn't listen anymore. EA/DICE removed a whole lot of core features, yet he neglects to mention any of these removed features other than game-base squad VOIP, which is an extremely weak ding against teamwork. Honestly, it's really made almost no difference--in my BF2 days, almost every organized group I played on used Vent/TS, and the times I went pubbing, the percentage of players actually using the squad VOIP was laughably low. I'm now in the situation where I go in with my group, just using the Battlelog-side VOIP, which essentially works just as well for me as squad-based VOIP. And if I'm not with a group...well, essentially the same damn thing as BF2 in my experience.

Do I prefer the removal? No, but the argument being made is still pretty damn weak.

How can you say the game is not casualized when you have 3D spotting, audiospotting, killcam, ALL of which give people undeserved information to help close the skill gap, out of bounds bases, maps that funnel you to into head to head combat, and is teeming with lock-on weapons and there are no skill weapons such as wire-guided AT?

And while I might agree with you that not everyone SPEAKS in BF2 VOIP, 95% of the time they listen and do what the SL says. And if they don't, it's obvious and is a great tool for knowing who to boot from your squad... and that's another BF3 problem. 8 squad slots of 4 each and if some ass hat camper is wasting one and all the rest are full, you have to join him or not have a squad?

And the real problem I have with BF3 is not BF3 itself, but the fact that DICE is running 3 series(BF3, BC, MoH) and ALL of them are designed to combat CoD.
If they ever make 2143 and it's basically BF3's design decisions but with future theme, that will be 4 anti-CoD products. I know BF2 only sold 5 million (for Pc only, I might add) but come on, that's enough to justify hiring another team and giving us a full game too.

 

[Zargon]

And while I might agree with you that not everyone SPEAKS in BF2 VOIP, 95% of the time they listen and do what the SL says. And if they don't, it's obvious and is a great tool for knowing who to boot from your squad... and that's another BF3 problem. 8 squad slots of 4 each and if some ass hat camper is wasting one and all the rest are full, you have to join him or not have a squad?
.

sure they do now, not 5 years ago when it launched

 

[DeadFred]

Firstly, not everyone has regular people they play with that can simply use teamspeak or whatever; we need automatic squad VOIP. Commo rose doesn't work(can't be heard and no text reports), so you can forget about deliberate teamwork with the people who aren't in your squad/teamspeak channel. Secondly, audiospotting, 3D spotting and killcam motivate even the staunchest teamplayer to stop capping flags and start chasing down kills.

And while saying there is NO teamwork is an obvious embellishment, the game has removed any strategic aspects that may have previously existed, for example, cappable airfields/tank bases/helicopter bases, and the game's pace just plain makes it easier for many people to throw tactics out the window and just zerg.

That's the short version of the story, it could be told in a 10,000 word format. You praise the fact that you can "finally hit who you shoot at" but the at least to me the game made the infantry weapon effectiveness at range too much; there was plenty of room between BF2 and BF3 for a middle ground there that would still be described by you as "you can hit people" that wouldn't be described by me as "too deadly at range".

But with all that said...if they were to have huge maps with strategic play(hint: the largest BF3 maps are mid-medium at best), the game might actually be fun just for that one change. Maps big enough that you might have to drive a bit to reach an engagement( and I mean 45-60 seconds, NOT 5 minutes like ArmA). But sadly, DICE wants you to be instantly within firing range of the enemy no matter where you spawn.

Dont like the spotting or killcam? Play hardcore, I prefer HC unless Im gunning from a heli. Im getting old and its hard to see those little dots running around on the ground without an orange triangle over their head. LOL

Not sure how the Commo rose worked in previous games (I never seen or heard it in BC2 either) but as it is in BF3 its just an annoyance, I hate when Im spamming Q to spot and that thing pops up.

Cappable bases sounds horrible too, wouldnt that just turn into a spawn killing clusterf#*&? It can be bad enough now on some maps as it is.

The hit detection in BF3 is spot on for me, not too easy and laserlike in CoD but also not just spraying and praying for enough hits to kill from an entire mag like in BC2 at anything over 50 meters. Out to 300 meters any assualt weapon (not pistol round SMG's of course) is deadly in real life, why shouldnt it be in the game?

Bigger maps we can agree on, I think a few of those could really add some more variety to the game. I wish you could like the game for what it is, it really seems like you want to but just cant.

 

[Anubis]

cappable bases is horrible, getting base capped or base capping someone else is not fun and is just lame as hell

TBH in BF3 i think vehicles should be immune from damage in your base, spawning in a heli or jet only to have it imminently blow up is getting old as well as the other team being able to drop someone into your base so they can steal your air support

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Cappable bases is great.

It FORCES you to play as a team rather than lone wolfing it. If your team sucks and doesn't try and defend a point, than a single squad can run around capping points taking advantage of your incompetence. If you get your base capped, your team sucks and you deserve to lose that game. Unless you nut up, get a squad or two together of leftovers, and go for a point no one is defending. And also, because you can only spawn on squad leaders, everyone moves EXTREMELY carefully, to maximize their time alive. Of course, because of the small maps in BF3, its very very easy to respond to most of those points being capped these days, which is kind of dumb.

Getting vehicles destroyed in your own base is a part of the game. I remember in Bf2, I used to sneak around in enemy bases with C4 with my squad and c4 every helicopter, tank, and jet I came across and rack up kills like crazy because idiots simply would not learn and not send a squad to kill us.

One or two guys would come up to our full squad and get gunned down while we wrecked havok on their bases. And then when we finally feel like it, steal all their assets.

Of course this was before the days of tiny maps and 3D spotting so I doubt team work like this will work very well.
Also, weapons were only inaccurate if you don't crouch and shoot. Standing and shooting was terrible. But the inaccuracy made the game better. Instead of running and shooting like you're playing call of duty. As soon as a firefight happens, everyone gets behind cover, crouches and fires in bursts. None of this no recoil bullcrap. Except for SMG's which have very low recoil, almost every single rifle was burst based, nothing was accurate past the first 4-5 bullets because of recoil. It was great.

So many people seem to want this game to continue down the easy, no risk, always get what I want, route, even moreso than now. The game should force you to play with your team in order to wreck havok on enemy assets. If you remove that, than whats the points of playing if the game is only a long TD game with no reason to ever work together.

I learned in this game, that killing things means absolutly nothing. I spend my time capping points, and usually get top 3 in a game. People are dumb and don't defend points, letting me single single handedly take them. I've gone like 1/14 and still be number 1 in the game because I actually know how to play the game.

I also only play Operation Firestorm these days, it seems like the only map that isn't some ADHD, all routes lead to a single chokepoint and has some sort of intersting design. Caspian border is an extremely unfun map.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Dont like the spotting or killcam? Play hardcore, I prefer HC unless Im gunning from a heli. Im getting old and its hard to see those little dots running around on the ground without an orange triangle over their head. LOL

Not sure how the Commo rose worked in previous games (I never seen or heard it in BC2 either) but as it is in BF3 its just an annoyance, I hate when Im spamming Q to spot and that thing pops up.

Cappable bases sounds horrible too, wouldnt that just turn into a spawn killing clusterf#*&? It can be bad enough now on some maps as it is.

The hit detection in BF3 is spot on for me, not too easy and laserlike in CoD but also not just spraying and praying for enough hits to kill from an entire mag like in BC2 at anything over 50 meters. Out to 300 meters any assualt weapon (not pistol round SMG's of course) is deadly in real life, why shouldnt it be in the game?

Bigger maps we can agree on, I think a few of those could really add some more variety to the game. I wish you could like the game for what it is, it really seems like you want to but just cant.

BF3 is already a spawn killing cluster, I don't understand how having more total flags and cappable main bases would make it worse. If the mains are cappable that's 2 extra flags to fight for, and realistically a good large map should have not just 7, but more like 9.

Also, you would think hardcore is a solution, but there's 2 problems:
1. It makes it harder to populate
2. There are more consequences than the simple removal of casualizations...I like having the aiming sight and full minimap,etc.

Also, balance/gameplay > realism, I don't understand how people can one-sidedly ask for things that make the game easier based on the realism argument, but not the things that make it more difficult. i.e., if real life assault rifles are effective to 300m they want that, but if in real life a single bullet to the leg can bleed you to death, no one wants that.

cappable bases is horrible, getting base capped or base capping someone else is not fun and is just lame as hell

TBH in BF3 i think vehicles should be immune from damage in your base, spawning in a heli or jet only to have it imminently blow up is getting old as well as the other team being able to drop someone into your base so they can steal your air support

Battlefield has always been about the sandbox freedom to steal assets like aircraft. Not anymore it would seem. Having your assets be safe is yet another casualization. And while they may not be totally safe, the out of bounds mechanic destroys 99% of vehicle stealing.

Understand that larger maps in BF1942 and 2 helped make it so that it wasn't a hop, skip and jump to get to the enemy base. Also, there was always a great chance of being killed on your way to attack a base.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Cappable bases is great.

It FORCES you to play as a team rather than lone wolfing it. If your team sucks and doesn't try and defend a point, than a single squad can run around capping points taking advantage of your incompetence. If you get your base capped, your team sucks and you deserve to lose that game. Unless you nut up, get a squad or two together of leftovers, and go for a point no one is defending. Of course, because of the small maps, its very very easy to respond to most of those points being capped these days, which is kind of dumb. And also, because you can only spawn on squad leaders, everyone moves EXTREMELY carefully, to maximize their time alive.

Getting vehicles destroyed in your own base is a part of the game. I remember in Bf2, I used to sneak around in enemy bases with C4 with my squad and c4 every helicopter, tank, and jet I came across and rack up kills like crazy because idiots simply would not learn and not send a squad to kill us.

One or two guys would come up to our full squad and get gunned down while we wrecked havok on their bases. And then when we finally feel like it, steal all their assets.

Of course this was before the days of tiny maps and 3D spotting so I doubt team work like this will work very well.
Also, weapons were only inaccurate if you don't crouch and shoot. Standing and shooting was terrible. But the inaccuracy made the game better. Instead of running and shooting like you're playing call of duty. As soon as a firefight happens, everyone gets behind cover, crouches and fires in bursts. None of this no recoil bullcrap.

So many people seem to want this game to continue down the easy, no risk, always get what I want, route, even moreso than now. The game should force you to play with your team in order to wreck havok on enemy assets. If you remove that, than whats the points of playing if the game is only a long TD game with no reason to ever work together.

I think one thing about BF1942 and 2 was that they were vehicle based games, and infantry was a secondary thing. And that's as it should be, because there are plenty of infantry focused shooters. Now, in BF3, vehicles are no longer king, they are nerfed back to the stone age with disabling and other garbage. Part of the need to attack a base in BF2 was to deny vehicles to the enemy. It was just a different balance...when you attacked a flag or base with your squad, there was no 3D spotting to instantly make everyone within 1km spray at you, there was therefore a certain pause between actual fighting even though you might technically be moving at high speed to your next objective.

Note that when I say infantry should be secondary, that doesn't mean I agree with the extent of inaccuracy BF2 had with infantry weapons. I just want a middle ground between that and BC2/BF3. There is nothing more satisfying than capturing a team's tank/helicopter/jet base after a hard fought, sometimes 10 minute long battle,, then chasing down their tank/chopper/jet to eliminate them as threats, then repulsing the enemy's attempts to retake the base. You feel like what you do matters more than just the amount that each kill matters.

Frankly I think Planetside 2 is going to be the only hope in the near future.

 

[imaheadcase]

Yah i'm really looking forward to planetside 2. I got the PC gamer April issue for the beta code The game looks pretty sweet from the preview they tested. The real time light/dark days looks very cool.

I played it when i was on dialup back then when PS1 came out and could not stomach it because of ping. But with everyone on broadband should be fun

 

[DeadFred]

Also, you would think hardcore is a solution, but there's 2 problems:
1. It makes it harder to populate
2. There are more consequences than the simple removal of casualizations...I like having the aiming sight and full minimap,etc.

Also, balance/gameplay > realism, I don't understand how people can one-sidedly ask for things that make the game easier based on the realism argument, but not the things that make it more difficult. i.e., if real life assault rifles are effective to 300m they want that, but if in real life a single bullet to the leg can bleed you to death, no one wants that.

I can flip that " I don't understand how people can one-sidedly ask for things that make the game easier based on the realism argument, but not the things that make it more difficult" argument right back at ya. So you want to make things harder by removing 3D spotting but dislike not having a "magical" crosshair or mini-map/HUD, thats kinda funny. You could always use a laser sight if you really need an aimpoint. But honestly that may be part of your problem. If you are relying on that crosshair you will end up spraying from the hip and hipfire accuracy is horrible at any range beyond face to face.

I personally wouldnt have a problem with one hit kills to anywhere on the body, from large caliber weapons or even 2 hit kills to non-vitals even from the weakest of small arms. Of course this would be disastrous to the game for most people, I think DICE has a pretty good balance between the two extremes in BF3 now.

Ive played Hardcore so much that I dont even pay attention to the mini-map/HUD anymore even when Im playing on a normal server. I go by what I can see and hear in the game and it has made me a much better all around FPS player. The only thing I miss on Hardcore is the 3rd person camera in vehicles, mainly helis but that is because Im a crappy pilot. Im sure if I learned to fly properly then I wouldnt miss that either.

BTW, I think the idea of (once your health drops below 10%, you should slowly bleed out and die unless healed by a medic) would be a good one.

No game will ever be perfect for anyone but overall I think the game is well balanced between vehicles and infantry. We will soon see how the new patch changes things.

 

[Zargon]

I can flip that " I don't understand how people can one-sidedly ask for things that make the game easier based on the realism argument, but not the things that make it more difficult" argument right back at ya. So you want to make things harder by removing 3D spotting but dislike not having a "magical" crosshair or mini-map/HUD, thats kinda funny. You could always use a laser sight if you really need an aimpoint. But honestly that may be part of your problem. If you are relying on that crosshair you will end up spraying from the hip and hipfire accuracy is horrible at any range beyond face to face.

I personally wouldnt have a problem with one hit kills to anywhere on the body, from large caliber weapons or even 2 hit kills to non-vitals even from the weakest of small arms. Of course this would be disastrous to the game for most people, I think DICE has a pretty good balance between the two extremes in BF3 now.

Ive played Hardcore so much that I dont even pay attention to the mini-map/HUD anymore even when Im playing on a normal server. I go by what I can see and hear in the game and it has made me a much better all around FPS player. The only thing I miss on Hardcore is the 3rd person camera in vehicles, mainly helis but that is because Im a crappy pilot. Im sure if I learned to fly properly then I wouldnt miss that either.

BTW, I think the idea of (once your health drops below 10%, you should slowly bleed out and die unless healed by a medic) would be a good one.

No game will ever be perfect for anyone but overall I think the game is well balanced between vehicles and infantry. We will soon see how the new patch changes things.

great post

I think the new patch is going to really fuck things up.

SLU and I need to go on a viper marathon before then

BF3 is already a spawn killing cluster, I don't understand how having more total flags and cappable main bases would make it worse. If the mains are cappable that's 2 extra flags to fight for, and realistically a good large map should have not just 7, but more like 9.

play a large map with 32 players

it has that EMPTY BF2 feel

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I can flip that " I don't understand how people can one-sidedly ask for things that make the game easier based on the realism argument, but not the things that make it more difficult" argument right back at ya. So you want to make things harder by removing 3D spotting but dislike not having a "magical" crosshair or mini-map/HUD, thats kinda funny. You could always use a laser sight if you really need an aimpoint. But honestly that may be part of your problem. If you are relying on that crosshair you will end up spraying from the hip and hipfire accuracy is horrible at any range beyond face to face.

I personally wouldnt have a problem with one hit kills to anywhere on the body, from large caliber weapons or even 2 hit kills to non-vitals even from the weakest of small arms. Of course this would be disastrous to the game for most people, I think DICE has a pretty good balance between the two extremes in BF3 now.

Ive played Hardcore so much that I dont even pay attention to the mini-map/HUD anymore even when Im playing on a normal server. I go by what I can see and hear in the game and it has made me a much better all around FPS player. The only thing I miss on Hardcore is the 3rd person camera in vehicles, mainly helis but that is because Im a crappy pilot. Im sure if I learned to fly properly then I wouldnt miss that either.

BTW, I think the idea of (once your health drops below 10%, you should slowly bleed out and die unless healed by a medic) would be a good one.

No game will ever be perfect for anyone but overall I think the game is well balanced between vehicles and infantry. We will soon see how the new patch changes things.

You go right ahead and flip it...I'll take 3D spotting that shows EXACTLY where to aim as a much more extreme casualization any day, compared to an aiming sight that hardly gets used anyway due to 90% or more of shots being fired while aiming down sight. Also, I never said I hipfired beyond point blank, I only said I liked having the sight. I personally like hardcore because aiming down sight accomplishes the same thing and that's a VERY small price to pay for getting rid of 3D spotting. But my clan doesn't run hardcore, and that takes care of that.

It's like comparing someone who buys $5 of lottery tickets every week(the aiming sight) to someone who loses $5000 per week at the casino. Sure, they're the same thing, but one is obviously more severe than the other.

Also, you're talking about balance, that's not exactly the problem. 3D spotting in BC2, for example, despite the wallhack, is balanced, after all, EVERYONE can use it. MAV riding is balanced, everyone can select recon and do it, so it's balanced. Dolphin diving in BF2 is balanced, everyone can do it. But not everyone enjoys these things, do they, balanced or not, and that's much the problem with BF3.

Most of us over at Mordor's forums are pretty much into a "middle ground". That means neither extreme casualization nor extreme realism. That, of course, applies on a feature by feature basis, when you look at BF3's big picture, it combines both extremes and rarely is anything done in the middle.

As an example, middle ground would mean you would indeed have a minimap, the presence of which isn't extreme realism(although I must note for you that ArmA 2, as a realism sim, while it doesn't have a minimap, still has a fullscreen map that shows your own position AS you move on it. Some of these things are just plain required because it's a video game regardless of the game's realism level), but the spotting would be only 2D(therefore, not an extreme casualization), and the spots showing up on your minimap would be those which a player actually clicked on to spot(also avoiding extreme the casualization of BF3's audiospotting which causes anyone who fires an unsuppressed weapon to show up). It's probably helpful to know that we look for a middle ground on most issues to understand why we seek the things we seek.

great post

I think the new patch is going to really fuck things up.

SLU and I need to go on a viper marathon before then




play a large map with 32 players

it has that EMPTY BF2 feel

BF2 64 doesn't have an empty feel. BF3 64 maps with 32 players are still deathmatch-in-conquest maps.

 

[Zargon]

BF2 64 doesn't have an empty feel. BF3 64 maps with 32 players are still deathmatch-in-conquest maps.

it can. and no they aren't.

32 players on kharg or firestorm feels rather empty in comparison to 48/64 player. You have less than one 4 person squad per CAP. how is that deathmath in conquest?

with the air power filled up you have 12 men and 5 caps.

you are trolling more as usual, just like the BC2 thread. we get it, you dont like the game. we dont need to rehear your complaints weekly dude