From all of your descriptions it sounds like BF2 was utter garbage, glad I never bothered with it.
No they don't. Every bullet has a slightly different powder loading and bullet size due to manufacturing tolerances. Using regular ammo the maximum accuracy you can achieve is around 2 MOA from a bench rest.
No they don't. Every bullet has a slightly different powder loading and bullet size due to manufacturing tolerances. Using regular ammo the maximum accuracy you can achieve is around 2 MOA from a bench rest.
They don't do that in game either unless you are dumping a mag full auto from the hip. In which case yes they would.
Counter Strike had much more random and less realistic bullet spread model than BF3 does. And it is considered the pinnacle of competitive multiplayer game. I don't understand where all this trolling over BF3's ballistics comes from.
ummm, we are talking about the randomness hit detection and bullet impacts
If the person can aim, I would expect him to kick ass. He shouldn't be penalized for it. Part of the playing the game is overcoming that scenario, not make it so that regardless of aim and skill, someone only has a 60% of hitting you. There are tanks, helicopters, hmmvs, smoke, or heaven forbid, noob tubes to clear a sniper from a ridge. Or simply use your own snipers to take them out.
I don't know how many times I've burst fired at a support guy and got a hit marker or two, then he goes full auto with an lmg, while standing, and one shot headshot's me. Or run around a corner, unload on someone first, he unloads on me, but he gets the kill. So what was it...my aim, the fact that I always use a grip, was it some attachment on his gun, his aim, or just a random number generator BF3 uses to determine the outcome...If you can't rely on the shooting mechanics there is no point in playing.
No they don't. Every bullet has a slightly different powder loading and bullet size due to manufacturing tolerances. Using regular ammo the maximum accuracy you can achieve is around 2 MOA from a bench rest.
They don't do that in game either unless you are dumping a mag full auto from the hip. In which case yes they would.
Counter Strike had much more random and less realistic bullet spread model than BF3 does. And it is considered the pinnacle of competitive multiplayer game. I don't understand where all this trolling over BF3's ballistics comes from.
All of these issues are simply because the game uses client side hit detection. It may seem like on your end you just got insta-laser-beam-head-shotted by a MG 100 yards away but from his perspective he took a good half second to line up a shot and fire several rounds right into you before you fired your bullets at him.
Same with running around corners and such - those situations are HIGHLY dependent on who has the lowest ping and who ran around the corner first. Generally, the person doing the storming is at an advantage because you get a timing advantage of your ping + his ping which is often ~1/4 a second.
Honestly just get better at the game and ditch the foregrip entirely. Just rock heavy barrel. Once you get the feel for controlling recoil you won't miss anything.
I gotta say though, if you can get 20 rounds off at 5m and can't get a kill... you're doing something very wrong.
Not really, crosshairs exist for a damn reason. How about you stop going full auto and play properly
My fault, I thought you were talking about the randomness of the game in an overall way, not what you just said.
But that variation for the most part is insignificant. On a bench rest you're still in the target.
I'm a rusher, and this happens all the time. You go full auto and dump a clip at someone within 5m those bullets should hit the body. Most guns in the game you need a max of 5 hits to kill someone. If you cant get 5 hits within 20 shots at that range its bs.
Maybe we are talking about different games, but CS had a very predictable firing pattern. I could any gun and know to expect in every situation.
But that variation for the most part is insignificant. On a bench rest you're still in the target.
I'm a rusher, and this happens all the time. You go full auto and dump a clip at someone within 5m those bullets should hit the body. Most guns in the game you need a max of 5 hits to kill someone. If you cant get 5 hits within 20 shots at that range its bs.
Maybe we are talking about different games, but CS had a very predictable firing pattern. I could any gun and know to expect in every situation.
So one of the best reviewed/recieved multiplayer FPS's ever, is utter garbage because it required skill, preplanning, teamwork, and didn't let everyone get kills by running around like an idiot.
You don't think that a LMG should have insanely high recoil if you're shooting while standing?
Got it.
There are reasons that there is such a big outcry against BF3 by the hardcore fanbase, the main reason being the massive casualization
Ive shot enough bulk ammo through my assault rifles (2 Colt AR15's and an Arsenal AK47) to know that sub MOA groups are not uncommon from a bench. Even the cheapest of the cheap, steel cased Wolf ammo will do better than 2 MOA from a steady bench.
I agree completely thats why I stick mainly to hardcore. No worries on the misreading, and I hope I didnt sound like a jerk. I sometimes type and hit submit before thinking things through.Getting shot by a Lapua round from 600m away should equal death, not an ouch I'll throw my medi pack down and re-heal in 10 seconds.
Reading again though we're not talking about the same things, and that's my mistake. Sorry for the mis-read and the redirection...
Chuck
For those of you who don't seem to understand why people are pissed about the foregrip change, I'll try to make it clear. Before the patch, the foregrip made any rifle almost laser accurate, and now it doesn't. Every gun is now worse because you can't ever have as little recoil/spread as you did before. It may not be a large change, but it's frustrating for players when they've been playing with strong and very accurate guns for months, and now suddenly the dynamic of the game has changed.
It wouldnt matter how much planning, teamwork, or how skilled you were if you couldnt hit where you were aiming, now would it? I have no interest in playing a game that is pure randomness.
Sounds to me like "the hardcore fanbase" is just pissy because they are getting raped in BF3's fast twitch showdowns. IMO it takes more skill to win those than it does to win a slow drawn out boring FPS/RTS type game you make BF2 out to have been.
Its obvious we have different tastes in gaming so theres no need for us to go through this daily.
No this isn't quite right. The foregrip pre-patch reduced horizontal recoil only. This made it easier to hit people enough times to kill while going full auto. Now the foregrip does not reduce h-recoil as much and it also makes you even less accurate. I bet that the only people that are complaining about the patch are those with < 15% weapon accuracy that previously had to rely on full auto mag dumps to get kills. Now they can't do that because the recoil is worse.
The patch made the guns WAY MORE accurate due to the buff of the heavy barrel. What they nerfed was RECOIL control. These changes punish spray-n-pray noobs while rewarding careful aiming and controlled bursts. Basically, everyone who complains about this aspect of the patch is outing themselves as a noob.
lol that makes their model even worse. So your aiming is gimped, depending on what you happen to be using, then on top of that you're not even seeing what your seeing? I check my killers ping, and if it seems high I chalk it up to that. My ping is generally in line with the rest of the lpbs on the server, but I dont feel I'm getting any benefit from it. If anything, higher pings get an advantage.
Say what you will but Ive shot plenty of 5 shot groups using IMI 855 with all 5 shots touching. NO I cant do this every time and NO its not a 10 shot string. But the main point is that bullets do go where they are aimed.LOL, somebody doesn't know what an MOA is. < 1 MOA groups using bulk ammo? Hahaha. Nice try, troll.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1160791_.html
http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-39710.html
No this isn't quite right. The foregrip pre-patch reduced horizontal recoil only. This made it easier to hit people enough times to kill while going full auto. Now the foregrip does not reduce h-recoil as much and it also makes you even less accurate. I bet that the only people that are complaining about the patch are those with < 15% weapon accuracy that previously had to rely on full auto mag dumps to get kills. Now they can't do that because the recoil is worse.The patch made the guns WAY MORE accurate due to the buff of the heavy barrel. What they nerfed was RECOIL control. These changes punish spray-n-pray noobs while rewarding careful aiming and controlled bursts. Basically, everyone who complains about this aspect of the patch is outing themselves as a noob.
No this isn't quite right. The foregrip pre-patch reduced horizontal recoil only. This made it easier to hit people enough times to kill while going full auto. Now the foregrip does not reduce h-recoil as much and it also makes you even less accurate. I bet that the only people that are complaining about the patch are those with < 15% weapon accuracy that previously had to rely on full auto mag dumps to get kills. Now they can't do that because the recoil is worse.
The patch made the guns WAY MORE accurate due to the buff of the heavy barrel. What they nerfed was RECOIL control. These changes punish spray-n-pray noobs while rewarding careful aiming and controlled bursts. Basically, everyone who complains about this aspect of the patch is outing themselves as a noob.
Hey, dont look at my weapon accuracy to make a point! hahaha My accuracy is misleading, cause I take pot shots at everything. I get cornered by a tank I'll unload on it just so say FU! I use full auto in 5-10m range especially when there is two or more, or the guy is sporting a LMG.
So they fundamentally change the weapon behavior, and complaining about it makes you a noob??? And I dont trust heavy barrel. That was a useless POS pre patch. Maybe I'll try it this weekend. I'm surprised you use heavy barrel...means you had to give up your tact light. :biggrin:
Say what you will but Ive shot plenty of 5 shot groups using IMI 855 with all 5 shots touching. NO I cant do this every time and NO its not a 10 shot string. But the main point is that bullets do go where they are aimed.
I think the thing you guys are all missing is that you are running all over the place, up and down hills, up stairs, over rocks, crouching, crawling etc. and you expect to be able to line up a perfect shot? NOT LIKELY! I don't care how much you think your crosshairs are on target, if you did this much physical work and then tried to shoot, you would definitely have randomization going on.
Regardless of all this, the game is really fun when you have a good crew working together as a team.
Looks like live scoring is in battlelog now!
What? Do you know what client side means? You're completely backwards here. Client side hit detection means you kill what you hit - no phantom hits doing 0 damage because the server disagrees with what you were shooting at. In effect you are seeing precisely what you are seeing. The down side is that someone shooting at you can kills you before you even see the shots coming. This can be frustrating because you get killed out of nowhere with no warning and such.
Higher ping gives you a big disadvantage. If your ping is like 150 then everyone has a 100+ ms window to kill you before you kill them. Having a low ping buts you on an even playing field.
I refuse to use tact light and laser on a matter of principle. Those attachments are the definition of not fun. That and the goddamn sun.
Also, yes it does make you a noob. Weapons take skill to use, not how many bullets you can fire in the enemies general direction. Making it so that the guns prefer burst shooters rather than spray and pray is an amazing change. If Dice made it so that every bullet after the 5th fired went 90 degrees from the barrel, I would not care at all.
When I speak of accuracy, I mean the ability of a player to put rounds on target. Weapon spread, which it's true has been buffed through the heavy barrel, is not as significant as recoil for any sort of fire but single shot mode. Even bursting from long range, recoil matters more for accuracy than spread does.