A tank in BC2 drives at pretty much the same speed as BF2, so what is your basis for this statement?
I said torque and acceleration, not max speed. Once up to max speed, you are correct. But BC2 tanks have less torque, get up to speed slower, have more trouble going uphill, can't power over obstacles as easy, etc.
Fair enough. It might take an additional second or two to get to maximum speed, but I still don't see why it's so crippling. Sure, it might be slightly more difficult to get away from someone trying to plant C4, but that just means the driver and gunner aren't doing a good job anyway if someone manages to sneak up that close and it's not the game mechanic that's at fault.
I agree that VOIP is critical, but it doesn't entirely make up for commo rose, which in BF2 could send messages to the commander (obviously, that role doesn't exist in BF3). We know that the recon class can call in UAVs in BF3...will they only be able to communicate with the 3 other players in their squad to pinpoint areas needing a UAV overflight? Artillery barrages, if they exist in this game, would be another example where you'd want team-wide communications, but not via voice, since the channel would get too crowded.
lol how on earth does VOIP raise complexity vs. commo rose? with on you simply press a button (or use voice activation) and just talk, the other you have to memorize layouts and even develop muscle memory to effectively employ.DICE sure spends a lot of time talking about lowering the complexity, and they even talked about not forcing people to squad up at E3. you would think they would be all about commo rose then, because forcing people to VOIP raises the complexity.
Also, VOIP only works with your squad. Which now, is 4 people not 6.
I never said commo rose was useless, I'm just emphasizing how irrelevant it is relative to VOIP.
The super intricate teamwork you're idealizing just doesn't work in pub games, even with voice coms and proper command map communication. Seriously, most gamers don't want to go out of their way to throw down ammo and med kits let alone coordinate UAV overflights and artillery barrages. With voice coms you can at least try to explain to such players why they might want to play more selflessly.
lol how on earth does VOIP raise complexity vs. commo rose? with on you simply press a button (or use voice activation) and just talk, the other you have to memorize layouts and even develop muscle memory to effectively employ.
I already went over this, VOIP even over just a squad would be orders of magnitude better than commo rose. A team with effective voice coms would kick the shit out of a team with just commo rose.
This isn't to say it wouldn't be nice to have commo rose, but VOIP >>>>>>> commo rose > Q
Text: Bengt Lemne
Published 2011-06-07
Don't mention the war. Or in this case Call of Duty.
Executive producer Patrick Bach, is happy to give journalists the first hands-on with Battlefield 3 at the DICE offices in central Stockholm, but with every interview he grows more tired of answering questions about the opposition. Not that he lets it on much.
"It's not like we can really fight head-to-head. It's not the same as say FIFA versus Pro Evolution Soccer", Bach sighs as he prepares for our GRTV interview. But journalists love to compare games and when EA boss John Riccitello seems eager to make it a duel it's easy to see why Bach is getting as many questions about Modern Warfare 3 as he is about the game he is making.
At the core of Battlefield 3 is Frostbite 2. An engine specifically designed for the game, and an engine that really shines, and not just in the looks department. The improved animations are not just for show as they allow for tons of incremental gameplay improvements that each by themselves may not look like much, but when added up they really make a difference.
One of the differences multiplayer lead designer Lars Gustavsson points out between Battlefield and its competitors is how maps are not really arenas, but rather a set of stages you progress through. DICE confirms three multiplayer modes at this point - Conquest, Team Deathmatch and Rush which we are about to embark on.
Conquest is a staple of the series and a must, but Team Deathmatch is something of a surprise. Lars Gustavsson says it was when he played team deathmatch in other games that he felt that this is something that would be much better if played in Battlefield.
The Rush map, Operation Metro, is set in Paris occupied by Russian forces. We, the attacking side, are US marines and our objective is to take out the Russian command located at the Paris stock exchange. We start out in a park, beautiful spring weather, flowing hills and birches. Our first objectives involve taking out a couple of AA installations located at the end of the park. As we achieve this objective bombers come in and soften up our path towards the stock exchange and this path takes us underground into the metro tunnels of Paris. There are a couple different paths we can take, and on one occasion a squad mate drove an infantry vehicle down the larger tunnel, which caused plenty pandemonium amongst the Russians as they scurried for cover in between train cars.
This infantry vehicle was the only one accessible in the map, but it illustrated some of the changes DICE have made to vehicles. Perhaps the most important change is that vehicles have regenerating health, and when health is down to a certain point you won't be able to drive them anymore. Furthermore, say an engineer scores a direct hit on a tank with five people in it. This used to mean he scored five kills, and in a way it didn't really promote troop transports. In Battlefield 3 he may kill the guy sitting right where the rocket hit and stop the vehicle, but the other four will survive and make their way out of the vehicle. Slight changes that will help promote team play even more. Another cool thing about the infantry vehicle - it had thermal vision which could be switched on, predator style.
The metro tunnels and the subsequent metro station provided us with a very different slice of gameplay compared to the combat we previously saw in the park. Plenty of choke points and intense firefights as we clung to the walls and ran inside train cars. Playing as support in this area was a good choice as when you go prone (yes you can) and zoom in and will plant your bipod (anywhere thanks to the new animation system) you're in an ideal position to supply suppressing fire. In Battlefield 3 suppressing the enemy will not only score you points, but their vision will be affected as well as their hearing, so suppressing becomes a much more important tool in Battlefield 3.
We've mentioned support and engineer and these kits or classes are joined by assault and recon in Battlefield 3. Assault is a frontline fighter combined with a medic, something that DICE wanted in order to have medics closer to the action. What's interesting is that the player will be able to use upgrades and slots to customise his kit. If you want your Assault to be more of a medic you can do so, or the opposite if you want him to be more of a straightforward frontline fighter. The Recon is equally versatile equipped with sniper rifle and C4. Overall, the design philosophy was to make all four kits fun and enjoyable and for players to be able to jump around between different kits and explore the game fully.
Battlefield 3 does feel a lot like Battlefield 2, even with all the small changes it is clear that this is the successor we have been all these long years for. DICE will tell you that destruction is something that really switches up things, but perhaps it wasn't as evident in this map as it will be in others. That said, there was a house you could hide in next to the stock exchange, that was pretty much turned to rubble as we peeked out from a window and laid down suppressing fire, and I catch a glimpse of a fellow marine being buried underneath rubble as the side of a building fell down on him.
What really stands out after an hour of "Operation Metro" is the level of detail and the map design. Whether it is the graffiti on the wall as we make our way out of the metro station, or the little nooks and crannies you can explore and exploit undergrund, it is clear that this is a labour of love and game DICE have been dying to make for years.
One battle was won for Battlefield on this day, as DICE revealed plans for Battlelog, a social platform similar to Halo Waypoint and Call of Duty: Elite, where you can access and extend your Battlefield experience to web browsers and smart phones. Unlike Call of Duty: Elite which was formally announced on the same day as the Battlefield 3 press event in Stockholm, Battlelog, will be completely without additional fees.
Whether it's enough to win the war or not is up for the players to decide, but Battlefield 3 is probably as strong competition as Call of Duty and Modern Warfare is ever going to see.
Jun 8, 2011 by Andrew Dyce
Battlefield 3′ came to play at this years show, with the developers giving a brand new look at the games single player component. Read on for the details.
It takes quite a lot to get shooter fans truly excited about a new military simulation these days, but the official announcement of Battlefield 3 has done just that. Many of you were likely blown away by the impressive visuals seen in the extended gameplay trailer, but as far as multiplayer is concerned, DICE has been keeping relatively quiet.
Thankfully E3 tends to bring out the charitable nature in most developers, and the minds behind Battlefield 3 are no exception. At this years convention, DICE was kind enough to give us a few more multiplayer details, and a chance to play it for ourselves.
The developers have talked about the emphasis placed on the Frostbite 2.0 engine and giving the guns as realistic a feel as possible, but it already seems like the multiplayer will be what truly sets BF3 apart from Modern Warfare 3.
DICE provided a few more bits of information on the unique features Battlefield 3 multiplayer will be showing off, starting with destructible environments. From breaking down enemy cover to taking down entire buildings in Bad Company 2, escalation has been key, and the stakes are even larger with BF3. This time around, players will be able to reshape entire buildings by destroying facades in an increasing dedication to a realistic urban combat situation.
The developers made it clear that theyve been learning plenty of lessons from their community, and that has brought some significant changes to both fighter class and strategy. Multiplayer is often the most fun for those who wish to run headfirst into the action and get killed in the process, which has led to the creation of a Combat Medic class. Using this fighter, you can help out teammates while still posing a threat to enemies.
In addition, the heavy gunners are a formidable opponent when operating in tight quarters, but DICE felt that the bipod stand hanging from the front of the machine gun wasnt being put to proper use. Now heavies can deploy their weapon at the touch of a button, increasing accuracy and allowing a single person to control an entire city street themselves.
New campaign trailers are all well and good, but seeing Battlefield 3′s multiplayer in person is something else entirely. It wont surprise anyone for me to tell you that it looks gorgeous, but its difficult to say enough about the Frostbite 2.0 engine. From environment renderings to character animations, the game runs as smooth as possible with no noticeable tearing or hiccups.
The multiplayer stage provided (via PC) was from the series Rush mode, tasking the team of players with taking out anti-aircraft installments in a park located in the heart of Paris (good hint there of the scale of Battlefield 3s story). With each completed objective more of the map was revealed, with an air strike opening up a crater into Paris subway system, and eventually leading to a massive firefight in the final train station.
The pace was fast and furious, but the moments when the team was working together and performing their own roles were not only the most satisfying, but extremely effective at scattering the opposing forces. Seeing how each class works together was an eye-opener, as DICE has added several new tweaks to the common XP system. If a machine gunner is keeping an enemy pinned down with suppressing fire when he is taken out by a fellow team member, then both the killer and the suppressor receive points.
The Engineer class is now also equipped with a flashlight mounted to his weapon, which comes in handy in the darker parts of the map. But the tool isnt just for navigation, as it can also be used to blind enemies temporarily. This is just another instance of the biggest take-away from the experience: all of the elements of gameplay that shooters have been taking as a given for the past few years has been given a bit more depth and thought with Battlefield 3.
Medics, for instance, can revive a downed opponent as usual, but the fallen player has the choice to accept the help or not. If they choose to turn down medical attention, it seemed that the player can continue to fire with a handgun from a prone position or respawn elsewhere. Having a handful of shots doesnt do much for Call of Duty except offer a chance for revenge, but in Battlefield 3 players were still able to be effective in battle while wounded.
We didnt get a chance to see any buildings taken down or extensive vehicle combat, but the infantry focused map proved the obvious: DICE knows how to make a successful multiplayer experience. Our preview was only a tiny glimpse at the game, but was infinitely more approachable and conducive to teamwork than anything Call of Duty has put out in recent years.
Battlefield 3 may not have the same brand power as CoD, but if what we saw was a good indication of how the final game will approach multiplayer combat, then CoD fans would do well to try Battlefield 3 out for themselves.
Well all be getting a better look at Battlefield 3 when its released for the Xbox 360, PS3 and PC this Fall.
Stay tuned to Game Rant for more news on everything coming out of E3 2011.
Battlefield 3 Multiplayer Hands On
Preview
by Matt Bertz on June 08, 2011 at 05:46 PM
A first-hand account of the first multiplayer map, plus DICE talks about the class changes in store for Battlefield 3.
Before we could jump into combat, DICE general manager Karl-Magnus Troedsson shared some new details about how the game's class system is being restructured. The biggest change is the marriage of the assault and medic classes. After analyzing players' gameplay habits in Bad Company 2 and in listening to community feedback, the team decided that since the assault class is typically the bullet fodder in the frontlines it makes more sense to endow those soldiers with healing abilities like medic packs and defibrillators. These soldiers are armed with your standard array of assault rifles like the M4.
The support class now replenishes ammunition for teammates, and many of the LMGs feature bipods for increased stability when firing. These can be deployed on the ground, on cars, or even on low walls. Support players also benefit from a new suppression mechanic; when you're firing in the general direction of enemies, you don't need to actually hit them with bullets to affect their ability to fight. As bullets whiz over their head, the opposing player will lose some combat awareness thanks to a gradual screen blur that mimics the sensation of being caught under fire.
The two other classes received small but interesting tweaks. Engineers still carry the anti-vehicle weapons and repair tools, but their weapons now support undersling attachments like a flashlight, which can be used to blind approaching enemies in low light conditions. The only major change to the recon class is a new breath-holding mechanic that momentarily increases accuracy. Once your character exhales, however, the weapon will have more sway for a short period of time so timing your shot is critical. This should kill off the quick scoping exploit that plagued earlier versions of Battlefield. Each class gets three specialization slots to customize their experience, but this feature was locked.
Players can also customize their dog tags. Now when you knife an enemy to take his or her tags, you'll receive a unique item that highlights that person's Battlefield triumph of choice. The examples DICE offered included the kills with a specific weapon and total hours served.
With no consoles in sight, DICE was only allowing us to try the 32-player PC version that pits Marines against the Russian Spetsnaz. The map I played, Operation Metro, takes place in the streets of Paris. The four-stage Rush map starts out in an open urban garden, transitions into the cramped and darkened underground subway, and eventually spills into the Parisian financial district directly in front of the Paris stock exchange. The beginning area featured smartly implemented changes in elevation that provide players with natural cover positions as they descend on or defend the crates. Once the battle descended into the subway, the support players gained an advantage in the darkened hallways thanks to the blinding flashlights and the ability to shoot out other light sources. The fighting here featured natural choke points, and overcoming them requires coordinated strikes.
The gameplay doesn't stray too far from the traditional Battlefield experience, which is a good thing in my book. You can still spot characters to highlight them for your teammates, take out cover with heavy weaponry, and generate tons of experience points by helping out teammates. The Frostbite 2 engine is also used to great effect, with varied lighting, realistic soldier animations, and impressive facade damage to buildings amidst all the multiplayer chaos. I wish we could have seen the map with 64 PC players or on a console, but we've got a lot of time to kill between now and the Battlefield release date on October 25. I'm sure EA will provide another opportunity to check out what's shaping up to be one of the company's biggest games in years.
BY: zh1nt0
POSTED : Jun 08, 2011, 04:56PM
Well good day to you folks who are watching all the cool stuff go down at E3 from home.
Yesterday you had a first glimpse of multiplayer footage and from the tweets that have been coming in today, everyone seems very amped about it. So, let´s talk a little bit about the stuff you have actually seen.
Classes:
The Assault Class will be carrying a medic kit and will also be able to revive fallen teammates on the Battlefield with a defib kit.
The Support class can throw out ammunition as well as using an LMG to fight his way through hordes of enemies. The LMG is equipped with a bi-pod that you can fold out when you prone to give you that extra accuracy. Also, if you lay down some of that heavy suppressive fire on an enemy, you could also score some extra points as youll blur the enemies vision.
The engineer class is equipped with a submachine-gun with a flashlight that can actually be used to blind people thanks to the great tech provided by the Frostbite 2 engine. This is especially useful in the Operation Metro map due to the narrow spaces and darker areas of the map. The class also comes with a welding tool to repair friendly vehicles as well as an RPG to destroy enemy vehicles.
The Recon class has a semi-automatic sniper rifle and is also equipped with some powerful C4. Those C4 explosions can cause destruction a Battlefield favorite anytime, anywhere.
Battlelog:
You will never go into battle alone thanks to the powerful new community features of Battlelog. Players can build their platoon, communicate with other gamers, and compare their multiplayer prowess with friends and foes alike. Battlelog is free on all platforms.
Game Modes:
Announced Game Modes so far are Conquest, Rush as well as the brand new addition to the BF Franchise which is the Team Death Match Mode.
Links:
The E3 Photo Album
Our nice Battlefield Youtube page
Battlefieldo
And remember folks! "The Physical warfare pack is a very physical pack!" More updates on where and in what countries this will be available to come soon
Battlefield 3 is available on October 25th. Follow us on Twitter or "like" us on Facebook for complete E3 Battlefield 3 coverage!
does anyone know if you can strafe run like in COD? I hated how in BC2 it felt like you were running on rails.
Any word on the engineer welding tool being able to do damage to vehicles occupied by the enemy (a la bc2)? From the description it sounds like the answer would be no. But it sure would be nice to be able to inflict some damage using the tool if you've run out of rpg's and no one has re-supplied your ammo.
"The engineer class is equipped with ... The class also comes with a welding tool to repair friendly vehicles as well as an RPG to destroy enemy vehicles."
does anyone know if you can strafe run like in COD? I hated how in BC2 it felt like you were running on rails.
Possible player artillery, somewhere around the 3:16 mark:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-battlefield-3/715707
however, a lot of people are thinking he might have meant tank, not artillery, so we don't know for sure and DICE guys probably won't respond to tweets on this.
Check out this custom dogtag picture. One mentions mortar kills.
We know that was an option for recon in BFBC2, not that surprising to see it make a comeback in BF3. Could possibly be a squad leader function, though.
On the other hand, remember the engineer in BF1942? could plant a mortar on the ground. That could be making a return.
VOIP ONLY helps the squad. ONLY. Did I mention it only helps you communicate with your squad? Commo rose allows communication with anyone nearby and perhaps even people across the field, depending on your request. Commo rose is communication with the other 31, VOIP is communication with 3.
And I just told you why it raises the complexity. It forces people to squad up, and DICE has said they are supporting not squadding if you don't want to. It forces people to buy a mic. Not everyone has one.
Also, there will undoubtedly be vehicles, like choppers, that hold more than a squad of players. Without commo rose you have to type WAIT if you need a ride. Or shoot at it, which some servers ban for. And I've NEVER had a vehicle wait for me because I typed a message. And frankly I've never had a vehicle pick me up in BC2 by looking at them and hitting Q, either.
Commo Rose and VOIP are equally essential. Losing either of them would be equally apocalyptic for Battlefield. the only reason I don't speak a lot about VOIP is because I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, but assuming that DICE would not be stupid enough not to have working VOIP this time.
just because there is VOIP doesn't mean it's going to be used, when will you understand this? in all my time playing BF2 and 2142, i'd say not even 1 out of 100 people will even use VOIP. don't pretend just because they give us working VOIP that people outside of clan play will utilize it. i also know of a lot of people who disable VOIP because they can't stand hearing voices of 5 yr olds telling them what to do or crying/whining over it.
and great point about VOIP only helps communicate with squad and doesn't allow you to talk to the rest of the team. that argument alone should settle this VOIP debate.
well now its obvious you guys aren't the greatest of players
give me working VOIP (again again AGAIN, even if its only for the squad) and put me even on your guys' team and I'm sure I could hold your hands and win as long as you at least will listen
I already ninja hop through squads to gain better spawn points, I'd sure as hell do the same - if necessary - to make sure I explain to various players what they could/should be doing to better help the team.
I'm sure you guys have already heard this, but since it's not been posted in this thread yet: Did you hear that apparently Kotick wanted to play BF3 at E3 and got repulsed? Lol.
Is kotick a MW dev or something?