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VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
Playing more once again really leaves me feeling like these maps are just awful. There's no progression to anything. You just drive vehicle a flag. Cap it. See no one, drive away cap a flag. See that someone took back the flag you just got, go back to it. See no one. Cap it back. rinse repeat. There are too many flags too spread out with no important flags to hold onto.

It's just a jumbled mess of map design... Pretty, but the gameplay isn't there at all.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
Playing more once again really leaves me feeling like these maps are just awful. There's no progression to anything. You just drive vehicle a flag. Cap it. See no one, drive away cap a flag. See that someone took back the flag you just got, go back to it. See no one. Cap it back. rinse repeat. There are too many flags too spread out with no important flags to hold onto.

It's just a jumbled mess of map design... Pretty, but the gameplay isn't there at all.

sounds like just what nik wants

what size server? the bigger maps even in vanilla got a bit lonely in 32man
 

GullyFoyle

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2000
4,362
11
81
I think the new maps are pretty, but haven't had any fun at all with them honestly. As someone else noted, each seems to end with one team winning with 90% or so of the tickets. It also doesn't help that the tank destroyers feel ridiculous. It's like driving a plastic go kart, they don't feel even remotely like they should. For example, the Sprut weighs 36,000lbs and only has a 500hp diesel motor. For comparison, that's not as good power/weight as a diesel semi pulling a full tanker of gasoline. 0-60 is well, impossible, because it will never do 60. After a very very long start, it will do about 45 tops. It will not, ever, bounce around like an RC car or turn on a dime. As a matter of fact, the M1 Abrams is faster and more maneuverable by a good bit.

Things like that, which are so blatantly effed, piss me off. It'd be like if the Helis went faster than the Jets.

I hate the new Tank Destroyers. It's hard to dial in the aim because the aiming reticle has lines that are too fat with only one horizontal cross-hatch, and the damn vehicle bounces and slides all over the place.
Plus all the smoke and dust are ridiculous.

Like you say, they are too fast. I watched one guy avoid two Javelins I shot at him by flooring it at the last minute. The Javelin, going for the top down strike, hit the ground behind him.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
Playing more once again really leaves me feeling like these maps are just awful. There's no progression to anything. You just drive vehicle a flag. Cap it. See no one, drive away cap a flag. See that someone took back the flag you just got, go back to it. See no one. Cap it back. rinse repeat. There are too many flags too spread out with no important flags to hold onto.

It's just a jumbled mess of map design... Pretty, but the gameplay isn't there at all.

Heh, and that was what BF1942 was all about. People were nostalgic for the "good old days" but failed to remember what it was really like, they only remembered the good parts. I've been saying all along that BF3 (classic & BTK) were huge improvements over their predecessors. I played the original BF1942 and I remember how lame it was 75% of the time.
 

DeadFred

Platinum Member
Jun 4, 2011
2,740
29
91
sounds like just what nik wants

what size server? the bigger maps even in vanilla got a bit lonely in 32man
Precisely what I was thinking.

Anything less than 64 players on conquest and you will hear crickets.



I finally played in a full server on tank superiority. The first game was in death valley, I came in late and my team was pinned in spawn. I quickly noticed SOFLAMS and spawn beacons on every high point, so switched from engineer to recon and used my MAV to destroy those suckers. Going for the win was pointless so I just spent the game spotting and wiping out enemy recon equipment.

Next I went to a server that was about half full and had a very good game. Seems less is more when playing TS mode. http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/battlereport/show/43426925/1/305137962/
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Heh, and that was what BF1942 was all about. People were nostalgic for the "good old days" but failed to remember what it was really like, they only remembered the good parts. I've been saying all along that BF3 (classic & BTK) were huge improvements over their predecessors. I played the original BF1942 and I remember how lame it was 75% of the time.

And yet BF2 and BF1942 were some of the best reviewed multiplayer shooters ever, got tons of awards, and is still active to this very day. Battlefield is SUPPOSED to be a slower game, not COD on a large map. Stay with your squad, get transportation, and cap points all day, defend points and such. Not run around like a chicken with your head cut off trying to get as many kills as possible.

Bring back destroyable assets, commanders, VOIP and the ability to trek to uncaps and kill jet campers and I may call it even with dice.
 
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QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
And yet BF2 and BF1942 were some of the best reviewed multiplayer shooters ever, got tons of awards, and is still active to this very day. Battlefield is SUPPOSED to be a slower game, not COD on a large map. Stay with your squad, get transportation, and cap points all day, defend points and such. Not run around like a chicken with your head cut off trying to get as many kills as possible.

Bring back destroyable assets, commanders, VOIP and the ability to trek to uncaps and kill jet campers and I may call it even with dice.

The non-inclusion of VOIP in BF3 is a big letdown, I agree with that. Commanders would be a nice, but not really necessary. The rest of your post is just trollshit. You are arguing that BF1942 is better than BF3 because it got better reviews 10 years ago compared to BF3 today? Really? That's like saying Doom is better than Half Life 2 because it got better reviews in 1994 compared to HL2's reviews in 2004.

You have either never played the original BF1942, or merely have a ridiculously skewed nostalgic memory of it.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
And yet BF2 and BF1942 were some of the best reviewed multiplayer shooters ever, got tons of awards, and is still active to this very day. Battlefield is SUPPOSED to be a slower game, not COD on a large map. Stay with your squad, get transportation, and cap points all day, defend points and such. Not run around like a chicken with your head cut off trying to get as many kills as possible.

Bring back destroyable assets, commanders, VOIP and the ability to trek to uncaps and kill jet campers and I may call it even with dice.

Good. Go play them, stop trolling here.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
The non-inclusion of VOIP in BF3 is a big letdown, I agree with that. Commanders would be a nice, but not really necessary. The rest of your post is just trollshit. You are arguing that BF1942 is better than BF3 because it got better reviews 10 years ago compared to BF3 today? Really? That's like saying Doom is better than Half Life 2 because it got better reviews in 1994 compared to HL2's reviews in 2004.

You have either never played the original BF1942, or merely have a ridiculously skewed nostalgic memory of it.

Good. Go play them, stop trolling here.

Having legitimate grievances = trolling. Great.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
how can you have a 'legitimant grievance' against a product for it lacking featuers that it never advertised it actually had(commander, assessts, etc, all this was known before hand)

you cant, you are just complaning that the game isnt what you wanted it to be, which is fine, but its not a 'legitimate grievance', its crying that you didnt get what you wanted

so yeah its kinda trolling when its this long in the tooth
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
Hey guys, dumb question, but how can you tell what sort of rocket launcher each type is, besides equipping it and using it in game? I know most of you memorize the models. I use rockets so rarely, I am unable to do this. Yes, if I look at a pistol I know it's a handgun and not a SMG or LMG. But even among assault rifles, it takes a while to explicitly know that the M16 is a 1 or 3 burst whereas the AK-47 is full auto.

I keep running into the situation where I'll equip a rocket launcher to fight tanks then realize it's made to lock onto jets. Or the reverse situation happens. Is there anywhere in the description or name that gives me a hint?
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
At the bottom right of the screen it tells you what weapon you have equipped when you change. At least I know the M320 does this because I switch between the 320, 320 smoke, and 320 LVG a lot.
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
I meant at the load outscreen when I can choose what rocket to equip. How can I tell before going in game that I have a rocket for planes vs tanks?
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,649
61
101
You kind of just have to know the name, I guess. For US, FIM-92 Stinger is for air vehicles only, and SMAW is the unguided rocket. For RU, SA-18 Igla is for air vehicles only, and RPG-7V2 is the unguided rocket.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
I meant at the load outscreen when I can choose what rocket to equip. How can I tell before going in game that I have a rocket for planes vs tanks?

Oh, well :

RPG or SMAW = Anti-Tank (or personnel/heli if you desire and have the aim for it)

Javelin = Anti-Lots of stuff (but requires lock-on time, which takes a while and is less accurate without someone else painting the target for you)

IGLA/Stinger = Anti-Heli/Jet (These were pretty useless for the longest time, I think they got slightly buffed, and the helis no longer have dual flares, so you can lock on, wait .. if you see them pop their flares before you shoot, wait a few more seconds, and shoot ..)
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
And javs will only lock onto ground
Without help.
Tapatalking on my pos thunderbolt. Sorry for teh typos!
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
The non-inclusion of VOIP in BF3 is a big letdown, I agree with that. Commanders would be a nice, but not really necessary. The rest of your post is just trollshit. You are arguing that BF1942 is better than BF3 because it got better reviews 10 years ago compared to BF3 today? Really? That's like saying Doom is better than Half Life 2 because it got better reviews in 1994 compared to HL2's reviews in 2004.

You have either never played the original BF1942, or merely have a ridiculously skewed nostalgic memory of it.

I dunno, I think there are many valid points of criticism against BF3 that have nothing to do with trolling. I did in fact have a lot more fun in BF2 (non jet maps, the air rape was insane and made ground worthless) and BF1942 because strategy was a major factor in winning.

The most fun I have in BF3 is on Caspian, Firestorm, or Kharg, when you have two good teams and a tight fight to the finish (admittedly rare, usually it's a blowout). The pacing is even pretty good on those maps.

With the AK expansion, which I so eagerly awaited, I'm just baffled. The pacing is all wrong thanks to the hyper cartoon speed of the tank destroyers, so there really is zero strategy other than run around like a tasmanian devil and kill as much as you can. Lost a flag across the map? No problem, at 100mph you can be there in seconds. That is, if your team isn't getting blown out and you can't make it 10 feet without being blown apart by 20-30 spawncamping enemies with a clear view into your spawn. Killed a vehicle? Killed 4 or 5? Doesn't matter, there are a million vehicles, and most moron server operators have instant respawn vehicles and quick life respawn, so whomever you just killed has already respawned, hopped back in that same vehicle, and in 5 seconds will warp across the map to swarm you again.

I think the criticism that they're trying to make this a big Call of Duty game is pretty legit.

Imho it could all be fixed (not even for everyone, but let people customize more server settings) by the following :

(1)- Slow down Tank Destroyers and give them the feeling of their actual 36,000 pounds. To compensate, give them some more powerful 2nd-seat weapons, but still make their armor weak. Putting the AA chain cannon on there as a secondary would be pretty badass, say at 75% of the power of the normal AA tanks. As is, they are far too fast. I saw one outrunning a helicopter on the desert map, which was kind of hilarious, but just retarded in the end.

(2)- Make being killed mean something. Offer server operators the chance to run limited spawn servers. I don't mean as related to tickets. I mean if you get killed X times as set (I would play the one life servers personally), you're out for the rest of the round. Or on servers with 2 or 3 total spawns per players wait a decent amount of time before respawning (I think 45 seconds would be a fair time). How many times have you killed 2 or 3 members of the same squad, and be fighting the last guy, only to have all of the assholes you just killed spawn back yet again and finally kill you. Ludicrous.

(3)- Make losing a vehicle mean something. Similar to above, let server operators set a limited number of each vehicle type. I think a single spawn for each air vehicle, 2 spawns for each major land vehicle (tank, tank destroyer, aa tank, arty), and 3 spawns for minor ground vehicles (jeeps, atvs, etc). And set the respawn times for vehicles to be quite long. As a team you'd have to work much harder to utilize and protect vehicles. They would be quite powerful of course, but also extremely rewarding to destroy and remove from the battlefield. This would be a great change to 'big whoop, instant respawn, instantly jump back into the same vehicle' as it usually is now.

(4)- Return spawn points to including the squad commander only. Being able to spawn on any squadmate is lame and really lessens squad dynamics considerably.

(5)- Scramble teams based on skill rating and KDR whenever a team wins by more than 33% of tickets. I realize that the skill rating metric is kind of poorly implemented, but it's better than nothing. Then lock the teams to prevent statwhores from piling onto one team. This would obviously make getting a bunch of your buddies on the same side more difficult, but the biggest problem in the game currently imho is the constant whoring that occurs with so many players only wanting to play on dominating teams. I've seriously seen more than a few matches where the winning team loses less than TEN tickets. Of course what happens is the losing team has players drop left and right, and the only players you see that stay are low ranking guys who end the match with 1-33 and such. I try to stick with my team, but often in situations like this I'll just sit in the stationary AA and try to stop at least some of the spawn rape from jets/helis. That thing needs a SERIOUS buff by the way, on Firestorm the other day I shot down a heli from the US side right in my spawn, the guy jumped out and was running across the runway to one of our jets. I kept the thing on his head and unloaded a full 4 seconds of rounds into him, and he wasn't fazed in the slightest. He got right in the jet and took off while the gun was cooling off. We're talking a gun that fires thousands of large rounds per minute, it should have ripped him in half easily. But I may as well have been shooting spitwads at him.

Given that my proposals would merely be options, it could give a place for the true hardcore crowd to go to avoid the CoD-style spam that dominates so many servers. As it stands, I have the most fun with 20-24 players total on large maps, where single-handedly killing a squad and a couple vehicles actually means you can move up on a flag or defend one. It's still not perfect of course because they can nearly instantly respawn and be back at the same spot, but it's better than the nearly infinite spam that occurs with the current settings in 64 player servers.
 
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Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Thank you. You put many of my criticisms on a post more in depth than I was willing to put time into.

But it addresses my, I assume, the number 1 issue with BF3. Pacing, Everything is so fast, timers are instant, spawning is extremely easy. There is no flow because NO PART OF THE GAME tries to slow anything down. Its just at 120% speed the entire time, which is why people are complaining about the lack of direction.

BF2 created direction because it was very hard to move around, it took things very slow, firefights evolved quite naturally. Flying around in a BH and capping far away ponts actually meant something because it would take such a long time for the enemy to react and recap it, in which time your commander will have noticed enemy forces, and allowed your team time to reinforce that point. You don't have enemies swarming in from all directions because they spawned across the map and then ran to you at all directions. There is ground between two points, and you fight over it.

None of this slow development exists in BF3. Its spawn, run across the map in 20 seconds, die, notice one guy one the squad is somewhere near where you want to be, spawn and die again. 3 seconds between each death. Blow up a tank defending a point? The guy respawns 3 seconds later, and takes a full health tank that just spawned next to him. And then he kills you in your weakened state. Movement is so damn easy and fast, that OF COURSE there is disorientation. When you can easily get to any point on the map in seconds, you have an entire map opened to you and you feel the anxeity of too much choice without giving the game a chance to naturally form a firefight.

Take that away, then you and your squad has an incentive to stay together, maximize your chances of all surviving to get to a point with a long trek, and actually cap points. Without that, it just becomes a very large COD Domination map.

This is exactly why I stopped playing the game. The action was too frantic, too much running around, shit exploding everywhere, being in a perma state of being suppressed, walls exploding behind me. It makes it into a cinematic game, but not a GOOD battlefield game. I recently relogged into BF2, and I really enjoyed it. Squads still exist, the game takes itself slowly, kills matter, and it was a ton of fun because I wasn't running around all the time getting kills/getting killed. No 3D spotting, so being careful actually MEANT something. Whats the point of smoke grenades, smoke on tanks, or other similar things if you can kill them because you can see them? Literally, if they took BF2 and made the graphics better and tightened up some inconsistencies, they could have GOTY easily.

I've been accused of hacking because I killed people through smoke, through dense underbrush, and behind walls and places I have no business seeing through. They accuse me of hacking, but I just say "3d spotting: legal wallhack" Compare that to BF2, where smoke actually means something. Just stuff like this shows that they want to make this game into COD.
 
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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
...
(3)- Make losing a vehicle mean something. Similar to above, let server operators set a limited number of each vehicle type. I think a single spawn for each air vehicle, 2 spawns for each major land vehicle (tank, tank destroyer, aa tank, arty), and 3 spawns for minor ground vehicles (jeeps, atvs, etc). And set the respawn times for vehicles to be quite long. As a team you'd have to work much harder to utilize and protect vehicles. They would be quite powerful of course, but also extremely rewarding to destroy and remove from the battlefield. This would be a great change to 'big whoop, instant respawn, instantly jump back into the same vehicle' as it usually is now.

...

I think this is already possible. being on plenty of servers that didn't have the AA on most maps that usually have them.

Give the servers time to sort things out. AK has only been out for a few days and people want a chance with all the vehicles. In another week or 2 people will start messing with settings to see how the game plays and we should get better settings for the servers.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,649
61
101
Thank you. You put many of my criticisms on a post more in depth than I was willing to put time into.

You don't do anything but complain in this thread, but I mostly agree with you. I don't want Battlefield to become CoD, removing and/or dumbing down what makes Battlefield, Battlefield. And I agree, insta-spawning makes it pointless to really care about dying or losing your vehicle. I can't stand fuckers using air vehicles for taxis and ditching them, or leaving slightly damaged tanks in the middle of a spawn so they can go "take cover"... but oh well, wait 5 seconds for a new one.

It's still very fun to play in squads with friends though
 
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sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
Oh, well :

RPG or SMAW = Anti-Tank (or personnel/heli if you desire and have the aim for it)

Javelin = Anti-Lots of stuff (but requires lock-on time, which takes a while and is less accurate without someone else painting the target for you)

IGLA/Stinger = Anti-Heli/Jet (These were pretty useless for the longest time, I think they got slightly buffed, and the helis no longer have dual flares, so you can lock on, wait .. if you see them pop their flares before you shoot, wait a few more seconds, and shoot ..)

Thanks for your help. I am literally going to print this out and put it next to my monitor.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81

I have a similar issue with the game, in that capping flags is pointless because they are taken the second you go to cap another one. I don't remember the name, buts its a desert map with like 6-8 points, but there are 3 in the middle, A, B, and C. I spent almost the whole game moving from A, B, and C, and as soon as you ran the 100m to the next point, the flag you just capped was retaken by the other team. Just one long circle jerk.

I will give the AK maps another try on Rush, otherwise, I would rather play Metro or rush on the shipping and B2K maps.
 
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llee

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2009
1,152
0
76
I have a similar issue with the game, in that capping flags is pointless because they are taking the second you go to cap another one. I don't remember the name, buts its a desert map with like 6-8 points, but there are 3 in the middle, A, B, and C. I spent almost the whole game moving from A, B, and C, and as soon as you ran the 100m to the next point, the flag you just capped was retaken by the other team. Just one long circle jerk.

The Gulf of Oman map in the B2K expansion?
 
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