* * * OFFICIAL * * * Bush / Kerry Debate . . .

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chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
That's close enough for P&N on the Truman polls.

I actually agree that we now know those online polls are worse than worthless because of the availability of rampant cheating, so I for one will not be citing them any longer.

However, after Bush got seriously hammered by the prior debate's online polls I think Rove and the Swift Boat Veterans must have led the charge on multiple voting. You always gotta' be thinkin' in this game. One wrong move and CHECKMATE.

-Robert
 

slunk

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2000
1,325
0
0
"I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land."

ROFLMM-FAO!!! That's great. What a douche!
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Bush up 58% to 40% in the cnn poll.


Online poll is heavily Kerry favored.... CNN.com article has 47-45 Kerry over Bush. Which poll are you looking at?

Edit: Weird... two different poles on their website.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Bottom line for me is this....

Bush did a nice job of slowing down the bleeding that his campaign was suffering. Kerry needs to change his tactic in the next debate. He needs to stop saying "I have a plan...." and pimping his JohnKerry.com website. He needs to go into a bit more specifics and needs to put Bush BACK on the defensive like in the first debate. Otherwise, momentum will swing back to the President.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
Yes well I fully expect Kerry to be on his game for the economy debate. We can get off Iraq, and onto domestic issues where Kerry really shines. I thought he did very well against Bush in the domestic/economic part of the debate. Bush looked like a fool when the Canadian drugs question came up, Kerry flat out called his lie that he was working on it.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
There have been a number of times in the first 2 debates that I thought that Kerry could have dropped the hammer on Bush and he didn't. I only hope that he is saving it for the last one so GWB won't be able to go home, figure out how to spin it, and bring it up in another debate. If so, the last debate might have some real zingers in it.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Yes well I fully expect Kerry to be on his game for the economy debate. We can get off Iraq, and onto domestic issues where Kerry really shines. I thought he did very well against Bush in the domestic/economic part of the debate. Bush looked like a fool when the Canadian drugs question came up, Kerry flat out called his lie that he was working on it.

personally, I thought Bush was at his best talking about the domestic issues. I thought he answered the Canadian drug question well, and it was a good point to point out that Clinton didn't allow the Canadian drugs either. It's really not an issue of saftey, it's an issue of authenticity with the drugs, you don't want a bunch of fake drugs making it to American shelves.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Getting all pissy
In a painstaking recap of the second presidential debate, the audience comes out ahead.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/f...04/10/09/blow_by_blow/
9 p.m. Incumbent George W. Bush, Sen. John Kerry enter, exchange greetings. Lip-reading shows Kerry is saying: "Quest-que c'est le bushisme du jour?" Bush fires back: "I'll look taller after PhotoShop, Kerr-bear." Rumors of a bulge exaggerated. Debate reveals there is nothing to presidential package.

Woman asks Kerry if people are right to call him "wishy-washy." No, says Kerry. It's just that Bush's wishful thinking on WMD led to character attacks that don't wash. Addresses poor domestic record, declares Bush first president in 72 years to lose jobs. Bush pounces: Fuzzy math! Everybody knows I am only 58 and a half years old! Makes quippings of mastication. Insists tax cuts were aimed right up the middle class. Pained looks on Missourians, general shifting in seats confirm they took it up the class, all right.

9:15 p.m. Woman asks Bush if unjustified invasion of Iraq could possibly be justified, since justification proved not to be justified. Bush expresses bitter unhappiness that weapons capable of destroying large numbers of people did not exist. He then proves that not all U.S. manufacturing has declined when he gives a Carol Merrill wave at the latest excuse to roll off the White House assembly line -- Saddam Hussein was a rambler and a gambler. Bush struts. Damn system gamer! Oddly, he does not mention others involved in this corruption. So no word yet if, when airstrike will be launched against U.S. oil companies.

Man asks if Kerry would use Bush plan in Iraq. Kerry quotes senior Republicans calling the plan "incompetent," "beyond pitiful," "beyond embarrassing," "in the zone of dangerous." (So is that a yes or a no?) Bush spits out front teeth. Says the crappy plan is working so well he's going to toss an additional $7 billion on it. Kerry suggests going after Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan might have been a good idea. Bush says we're working on it, hard work, working hard, firm resolve, on the hunt, you do the hokeypokey and you turn yourself around, that's what it's all about.

Woman tells Bush, speaking of getting all pissy, my mother and sister caught holy crap during their overseas summer vacation because YOU just had to invade Iraq. Bush jeers, Well, I hate that poncho, so now we're even. Adds: Don't worry, they're just a bunch of dumb foreigners who don't understand my plan. Kerry says there is no plan. Bush says, 'member I was sittin' in the office, the oval one, lookin' at generals? Well, then I went down to the basement, where there was more generals, and I looked at every darn one of 'em. That's what a president does.

9:30 p.m. Woman mentions casually that Iran sponsors terrorism, has long-range missiles, will soon have nuclear weapons -- could this be a problem? Bush looks surprised. Iran? Is that a swing state? Kerry sees Iran, raises one North Korea, and ups the ante with Russia. Makes the case that nuclear weapons buildup plus Bush's inattention does not add up to safer world. Bush yells at audience to simmer down now.

Man asks Bush about the draft. Between convulsions, Bush distracts draft-age demographic by revealing the existence of a second Internet. Kerry says that using stop-loss policies to keep people from getting out of military service amounts to a back-door draft. Bush jumps off stool, barking and grinding his teeth. Moderator tries to pet him, sustains lacerations. Bush snarls: Tell that to the Italian guy and the Brits. Hey, we've got 30 countries helpin' us out. Kerry says: You forgot Poland. Smoke coming out of Bush's ears spells out these words: "Poland can kiss my grand coalition."

Woman says to Kerry, So far so good, we haven't been horrendously attacked again lately. Any thoughts? Kerry claims adequate homeland security could come in handy. Bush says he doubled, tripled the funding. Except that he did neither. It's what you call PATRIOTIC license. Snaps: "I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country." Figures that oughta do it. Sheesh, nosy broad.

9:45 p.m. Man asks Bush why he blocked importation of cheaper drugs from Canada. Bush explodes: You can't handle the drugs! Anyway, I didn't, not yet, and when I do it'll be to keep you safe. Drugs'll kill you, man. Sorry about the Parkinson's. (Wuss.) Kerry says that Bush took $139 billion from Americans and gave it to drug companies. Bush says, Well, you could've done something for Medicare in the Senate if you love sick people so much. Kerry says: We did. Cites 1997 legislation and says, Oh, by the way, we balanced the budget, too.

Woman asks Kerry, So what's with the trial lawyer V.P.? Kerry invites her to download and review voluminous PDF detailing in-depth plan for tort reform. Kerry then gets real. Points out that litigation accounts for less than 1 percent of the total healthcare cost. Notes that premiums in Missouri have gone up 64 percent. Offers affordable premiums instead, and tax cut for 98 percent of Americans. Bush falls off stool, calls Kerry the K-word: Kennedy. Then the L-word. Then the -- demands that Charlie Gibson tell him what letter comes next. Kerry says, M, as in, What do you mean kicking 500,000 kids out of after-school programs, cutting 365,000 kids from healthcare and running up the biggest deficits in American history? Bush stomps feet, says: You're not the boss of me.

Man asks Bush, If you're such a Republican, why haven't you vetoed a single spending bill? After the first sucker punch, Bush explains that when you turn a $5.6 trillion surplus into a $2.6 trillion deficit, the fiscally responsible thing to do is to blame everybody else and keep running up the tab. Furious that no one appreciates the shallowness of his recession.

10 p.m. Guy dares Kerry to look into the camera and tell Americans that in his first term he won't raise tax burdens on families making less than $200,000. Kerry looks into the camera and tells Americans that in his first term he won't raise tax burdens on families making less than $200,000. Highlights the $1,000 child-care credit and $4,000 college credit. Bush asks Gibson: Is my time up yet? Look on some Missourian faces says: "24 days."

Man asks Bush to rate himself as an environmentalist. Over howls of laughter, Bush bellows, "Off-road diesel! Hydrogen autos!" Kerry calls Bush's environmental policy "Orwellian." Bush fumes -- so what if he is oil wellian? Bush retorts: "I guess you'd say I'm a good steward of the land." Nobody says it. Guess not.

Woman asks Kerry how Americans can stay competitive in manufacturing and earn a living? Kerry suggests that not making it lucrative for companies to give all our jobs away might help. Bush is suddenly eager to talk about health insurance. Promises voters a "catastrophic plan" and says that, whatever it is, it's sure different from saying, "OK, let me incent you." Says he met a feller named Grant who's created actual jobs. No, really. He's not making it up.

10:15 p.m. Man comments on expansion of the PATRIOT Act, asks Bush why his rights are being watered down. Bush says they aren't. Not at all. Don't be such a baby. Shut up. We can have you arrested for wearing the wrong T-shirt and you want to get all up in my ass about the PATRIOT Act?

Woman asks Kerry, Why use embryonic stem cells? Kerry says not letting people die could be a viable way to show respect for life. Bush says, I can say the word "ethical" more times than he can say it. And I'm louder.

Speaking of vacancy, a man wants to know how Bush would fill one on the Supreme Court. Bush says he's not tellin', then recounts mangled version of the Dred Scott decision. Kerry fast-forwards from 1850s to 2000, when Bush declared, "What we need are some good conservative judges on the courts." Oh, yeah, that, says Bush.

10:30 p.m. Woman asks Kerry what he would say to a voter who believes abortion is murder. Seems to be, um, asking for a friend. Georg -- Georgia, uh, Bosh. Yeah, that's it. Kerry affirms his faith, then mentions a once popular concept -- the separation of church and state. Bush says he doesn't get it. Chews on Charlie Gibson's leg.

Bush accuses Gibson of putting "a head fake on us." Woman asks Bush for three examples of mistakes he made and how he fixed them. Bush grinds her bones to make his bread, then says, 1) History will look back at me; 2) I am responsible; and 3) I didn't make any mistakes except for some appointments of people who quit and then went on "The Daily Show" with their damn books. Kerry helps Bush recall other mistakes. Bush does not seem grateful.

Kerry, in closing, says that America's best days are ahead of us. Bush yells: "Are not." Hollers that we're safer but not safe. Screams a reminder at everybody watching in Afghanistan: Don't forget to vote tomorrow. For all you Afghan gals, remember to ask your husband for permission. (If you get beaten, find other ways to enjoy being free.) God bless America. And dammit, the next time, someone's in for a world of hurt.


:thumbsup:
 

acebake

Senior member
Nov 13, 2003
936
0
0
What cracks me up is the people that supported the online polls a few days ago stating that Kerry/Edwards won the previous two debates....how they suddenly change their mind and stop supporting them when CNN's poll has Bush ahead by a pretty significant number.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: acebake
What cracks me up is the people that supported the online polls a few days ago stating that Kerry/Edwards won the previous two debates....how they suddenly change their mind and stop supporting them when CNN's poll has Bush ahead by a pretty significant number.

Hunh?

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/
Who do you think won the debate?

George W. Bush 14% 13008 votes

John Kerry 84% 76403 votes

Evenly matched 2% 1369 votes
Total: 90780 votes
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: acebake
What cracks me up is the people that supported the online polls a few days ago stating that Kerry/Edwards won the previous two debates....how they suddenly change their mind and stop supporting them when CNN's poll has Bush ahead by a pretty significant number.

Hunh?

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/
Who do you think won the debate?

George W. Bush 14% 13008 votes

John Kerry 84% 76403 votes

Evenly matched 2% 1369 votes
Total: 90780 votes

There were two places on the CNN.com website that you could vote on who won the debate. One was next to a story that the offline poll stating that it was a tie and the other was at the link you provided, Conjur. It appears that a lot of Kerry supporters went to this place to vote and your vote went into a black hole.

Front Page of Election 2004 Section Scroll Down

Article that stated in offline poll that the debate was a tie.... Scroll down.

So I don't find the CNN.com online voting to be valid and needs to be disregarded.
 

acebake

Senior member
Nov 13, 2003
936
0
0
I agree with you on the tie. 47-45 percent according to CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/...lts/13740.content.html

It's the quickvote on most of the links that you click on.

Kerry has the advantage when it comes to being new on the block. We've heard Bush for four years, so naturally, people tend to have an interest in what Kerry's stance. Over the weeks before election, I believe that people (and hopefully undecided voters, etc.) will begin to see Kerry's ineptness and his inability to successfully lead America.

23 days left--this election is going to be pretty close...it'll be interesting to see what goes on in the weeks leading up to Election Day.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: acebake
I agree with you on the tie. 47-45 percent according to CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/...lts/13740.content.html

It's the quickvote on most of the links that you click on.

Kerry has the advantage when it comes to being new on the block. We've heard Bush for four years, so naturally, people tend to have an interest in what Kerry's stance. Over the weeks before election, I believe that people (and hopefully undecided voters, etc.) will begin to see Kerry's ineptness and his inability to successfully lead America.

23 days left--this election is going to be pretty close...it'll be interesting to see what goes on in the weeks leading up to Election Day.


There are two different quickvotes that show two different results. One of the quickvotes doesn't add you vote at all. That's what I'm talking about.

Just check out the quickvotes on both those pages... you'll see what I mean.
 

acebake

Senior member
Nov 13, 2003
936
0
0
That is kind of strange, I see what you mean...maybe they froze it? Who knows.

I've never liked the polls personally, my comment was simply the one stating that many of the people that supported Kerry would always use the online polls. I've never thought they've been right. The only thing that seems credible to me is the 47--45 number.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: acebake
That is kind of strange, I see what you mean...maybe they froze it? Who knows.

I've never liked the polls personally, my comment was simply the one stating that many of the people that supported Kerry would always use the online polls. I've never thought they've been right. The only thing that seems credible to me is the 47--45 number.

Nah, they're not indicative of much to me either. But that was something I did notice. I don't think either side can use the CNN.com online poll to claim any sort of victory because who knows how many votes fell into the black hole in that one "quickvote" spot.
 

acebake

Senior member
Nov 13, 2003
936
0
0
Very true--the black hole seems to be a problem on all of the quick polls on the news websites.

All I know is it's going to be a close election!
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
acebake:

I think CNN killed that poll after the NUMBER of people logging on went out of sight to like 1.2 million-a figure never before reached to my recollection. What I think happened, inasmuch as the poll reversed in terms of who was winning, was some over ardent Bush supporters simply voted multiple times by using different computers and by deleting the cookies every time they wanted to vote again. Thus, the poll was totally unrepresentative on CNN. You and I both know those numbers are crazy. If they were 51 Bush 49 Kerry they would have some modest credibility.

Forget the online polls. If the pollster doesn't talk to a voter, I don't think the poll has any value anyway. I'm not sure talking to a voter helps very much either.

-Robert
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
conjur:

Congratulations, I guess, on making Master Elite.

But, you don't need a title to convince me.

-Robert
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: chess9
conjur:

Congratulations, I guess, on making Master Elite.

But, you don't need a title to convince me.

-Robert

Whoa! :Q

Never noticed.



 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: chess9
acebake:

I think CNN killed that poll after the NUMBER of people logging on went out of sight to like 1.2 million-a figure never before reached to my recollection. What I think happened, inasmuch as the poll reversed in terms of who was winning, was some over ardent Bush supporters simply voted multiple times by using different computers and by deleting the cookies every time they wanted to vote again. Thus, the poll was totally unrepresentative on CNN. You and I both know those numbers are crazy. If they were 51 Bush 49 Kerry they would have some modest credibility.

Forget the online polls. If the pollster doesn't talk to a voter, I don't think the poll has any value anyway. I'm not sure talking to a voter helps very much either.

-Robert

yeah, bush supporters decided it was important to win the poll on cnn.com so they sat there and voted for him 800,000 times. Gimme a break.
 
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