**OFFICIAL** Diablo 3 Thread

[Kalmah]

There used to be this Arcade game called 'Gauntlet'. I loved that game and put far too many quarters into it back in the day. Then I figured out how to beat the game and forever after, I could put in one quarter and play for HOURS.

Then they came out with Gauntlet 2. Apparently I wasn't the only one who had beaten the game. so they changed the mechanics such that it was no longer possible to beat the game. They didn't make a better game. They just made it ridiculously tougher.

Not saying that D3 is like that, but is that the kind of thing you are saying? I haven't played past Normal yet, so I can't say myself.

What!? Gauntlet was beatable? I remember my uncle had his nes on pause for 3 months every night and concluded it had no ending.

 

[Stuka87]

What!? Gauntlet was beatable? I remember my uncle had his nes on pause for 3 months every night and concluded it had no ending.

Gauntlet 1 (For NES) had an ending, Gauntlet II did not. Also the arcade version of the first Gauntlet had no ending afaik.

 

[Zenoth]

You basically just explained why D2 was better....

In D3 there is NO variation. You don't even have to complete any quests other than Diablo to move to the next difficulty(not sure if there are level requirements). But right now leveling is 100% azmodan. The most profitable mfing is chests. The items and builds are boring as hell.

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make. You counter my statement but then back it up with evidence.

They need some patches pretty badly

I think you need to read my post again.

Do I really have to do it all over again?

º D2 had basically no game-play beyond doing the same runs. You're telling me D3's leveling is "100% Azmodan", yep so what, D2's leveling was 100% Baal. If you want to exaggerate, go ahead. My own D3's leveling wasn't "100% Azmodan", hell I just learned about that "trick" this morning. I completed Normal with my Barb and my Demon Hunter by doing "100% Act I to IV", not by doing "100% Azmodan". It can be "100% Azmodan" if you CHOSE to do it that way. In D2, it could be "100% Baal" if you CHOSE to do it that way. What if you don't chose to do it like that? Well if you don't you suddenly end up playing the game, big deal!

º D2's loot variety was much superior, it still doesn't make its game-play superior (see above?).

º What the hell do you mean by "not having to complete any quests other than Diablo to move to the next difficulty"? Huh, yeah isn't that expected? What about Diablo 2's "only quest" being killing Baal to "move to the next difficulty"? What's your point? In D2, we kill Baal in Normal to move to Nightmare, we kill Baal in Nightmare to move to Hell. In D3 we kill the Prime Evil (or Diablo if you prefer) in Normal to move to Nightmare. That "only quest" IS the only way to move to the next difficulty for BOTH games. Again, what's your point?

º The most profitable MF comes from chests, so what? Go find them? Go PLAY the game? Clear the maps? Enter caves and crypts? Do you even realize that most of those chests you speak of are in Level 2 of such maps and that chests in general in D3 are not innumerable like they were in D2? Exactly because they are much more significant by potential in D3 than they could ever be in D2? I could easily say that D2's most "profitable" MF source was Baal, on paper, it WAS Baal and nothing else. Big difference? Either you prefer doing the same thing all over again in D2's "superior" game-play, or you prefer looking for those big golden chests in D3's Level 2 caves, caverns and crypts.

º Items and builds "boring as hell"? Well, items being boring, I agree, in general. But, builds? Boring? Look, in D2 I had two or three builds I preferred for my Barb. The POSSIBLE number of builds on paper in D2 might have been "higher", but I ALWAYS ended up with dual swords, using Frenzy and Whirlwind. Wow, ok, big deal? Most of the Sorcs I saw went with ice builds. Almost every Paladins in existence went Hammerdin. Almost all Summoners were... well... summoners with their army going on in the Throne room. Almost all Assassins were Trapasins, almost all Druids were Elemental druids, and almost all Amazons were Bowazons. Have you ever seen well known cookie cutter Mace Barb builds? If you went Mace Barb you were limited by very boring Maces or you went Immortal King and couldn't do half the DPS of a "proper" Sword Barb build like the 90% Barbs had out there. In D3 I can switch my builds around depending on how I feel playing my toon like. In D2 I could do that but I had to start all over again (not that it took much time to do that, granted, with a nice leveling rush, from 1 to 85 in what... one single day, even just a few hours?).

º You don't really "understand my point"? I'll try to make it clear then. My point is the following: Diablo 2's ONLY superiority is the loot variety. Poeple really need to analyze how they "played" Diablo 2 closer and in more details and stop being blinded by their nostalgia (and me saying something like that is quite something believe me, usually I'm the one around here saying that nostalgia cannot blind that much). Diablo 3 DOES have issues, the Monk is OP, the loot lacks variation, and the game feels too story-driven... BUT I seriously enjoy it more now than almost any other games I care to play lately. It's a great game and it COULD be better than Diablo 2 if ONLY the loot could be more varied. I STILL enjoy playing Diablo 3 MORE than Diablo 2 due to the game-play, the visuals, the audio, the physics, the maps.

I really don't feel like I have to explain anything else, or a third time. If you don't get my point I don't know how else I can explain it. If you don't get it then I can't do anything about it, the only thing I can do is to let you "not get it".

 

[slayer202]

my god dude, you either say one thing and then contradict yourself a sentence later, or you say something that is completely wrong. And you take god damn forever to do it!

d3 = 100% azmodan. This is the CLEAR best way to level. D2 was different and varied. There were options even if you say baal was best.

beat diablo in normal and go into nm. you are in act 1? no worries, just join someone else's game starting at the diablo quest and you can go straight to hell!

people always try to say that there was no build variety in D2. dead wrong

and your whole "chest" rant. ugh. where were these chests in d2? nowhere to be found. like you said yourself there were lots of good MF spots, LOTS. it wasn't the same thing over and over, no real exploits

 

[thespyder]

What!? Gauntlet was beatable? I remember my uncle had his nes on pause for 3 months every night and concluded it had no ending.

My definition of beatable was that you could reach a point where, no matter what you did, you couldn't die. I don't know if there is an 'Ending' per say...

 

[darkewaffle]

At least in D2, there were many different viable builds and there were some interesting uniques/ runewords. The 'uniques' in D3 are very bland and don't open up some more skill builds like some of the ones in D2. In Inferno, the mobs are dealing so much damage that they are impossible to tank, and the champions you encounter you pretty much just have to avoid and run past. You are forced into kiting skill builds just to get through Inferno, nothing else seems to work as of now.

Sustain whether through items or skills is frigging worthless in Inferno and not very good in Hell. You pretty much can't let the mobs get close to you in Inferno or you are screwed. It should be at least somewhat viable, not nerfed to the ground like it is now.

Runewords were overpowered as hell. Uniques wavered between useless to exceptional depending on the item and character, but I still can't think of any that 'made' new builds possible.

And what's so bland about them now? To my knowledge all the legendary items have their own custom appearances and many of the level 60 ones have a lot of potential; though just like other items in D3 (and to some extent uniques in D2) it's going to depend on their own randomization. With a good damage or mitigation modification, they'll probably still be top-tier gear.

My friends have been in Inferno for like 3 days and have cleared Act 1, they make it a point to seek out champion mobs for the magic find bonus as well as the challenge/loot; skipping them defeats the purpose of going practically because boss loot simply isn't what it used to be. I think a lot of people expect to clear hell and then clear Inferno, but I don't think that's the intent. Inferno is there as kind of an "Everest"; it's just not for everyone and it's not balanced as such.

Kiting is a big part of it now but I wouldn't be surprised to see tactics evolve as Inferno runners eventually accumulate gear. For a long time in D2, you simply made it a point to avoid some champions just like you do in D3. Hell even when everyone had crazy gear you still made it a point to avoid certain ones because some of their random properties were just that dangerous. IM, MSLE, PI, aura enchants, curses could cause trouble for even the most geared out characters.

Sustain has served my Barb very well in Hell at least, revenge has saved my ass more than a few times, and so has my rend heal, regen armor and regen shout.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

Why do people treat Inferno like it's supposed to be just really hard? It seems like it's practically a bonus level beyond hell where shit is just unfathomably impossible.

Exactly. Don't have to beat it to "beat the game." The game ends at level 60 in Hell difficulty. Inferno is just a bonus level for l33t e-peen stroking no lifers lol.

 

[Chiropteran]

End game is pretty much a joke right now.

Resume Game -> get mobbed by Vampiric Vortex Extra Health Plagued Jailers, exit game, try again. Try again. And again. Finally get an area without impossible to kill elites, then get utterly destroyed by Fast Mortar Jailer Waller Minion Immunity elites. Reload again. Die more. Reload more. Finally get a manageable area. Rinse and repeat.

This is what Inferno mode is, and it is 20x worse in co-op. I haven't found a co-op group yet that can kill ANY elite pack. Over 50 games and not one elite pack killed in Inferno co-op (4 player).

Not much fun. Either farm gold for a week or two to buy a +200 dps weapon for 10 million gold, or exploit corners and run through areas to get to the easy boss fights and the next act. I dont' feel like a badass wizard, I feel like Harry Potter's gimped apprentice with the wand made in China.

My experience is completely different from yours. I actually thought the nephalim valor stack dropped when you died, so I was being super careful and got it up to 3 stacks before dying and realizing death didn't hurt.

I also did some grouping with some friends playing a barb and witch doctor, and while it was a bit harder we cleared act 1 through skeleton king fine with no major issues- maybe 2 spawns the whole way that gave us enough trouble that we wiped more than once.

To dispute a few common myths about inferno:

Most mobs in inferno don't 1-shot anyone. Regular white mobs hit my demon hunter for about 10k, given my 40k hp it's not that bad. A few specific mobs do hit hard enough to 1-shot (dark berzerker, charging rhino things), but they are the minority.

Bosses are actually easier than the rare packs, and not a problem at all.

You don't need to kite everything, my barbarian friend is fine for killing most mobs in melee.


The rumors of inferno's impossibles have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[Stuka87]

my god dude, you either say one thing and then contradict yourself a sentence later, or you say something that is completely wrong. And you take god damn forever to do it!

d3 = 100% azmodan. This is the CLEAR best way to level. D2 was different and varied. There were options even if you say baal was best.

beat diablo in normal and go into nm. you are in act 1? no worries, just join someone else's game starting at the diablo quest and you can go straight to hell!

people always try to say that there was no build variety in D2. dead wrong

and your whole "chest" rant. ugh. where were these chests in d2? nowhere to be found. like you said yourself there were lots of good MF spots, LOTS. it wasn't the same thing over and over, no real exploits

1: Diablo 2's leveling was not varied. It was all Baal runs once LoD came out. Sure you could do a Mephisto or Diablo run, but you got a lot less experience. Same goes for D3. You can do other bosses, you just get less experience.

2: Going with a low level character to a much higher difficulty area results in no experience. So just because you can go high, doesn't mean it makes sense. As it would be a waste of time. You get the most experience from mobs that are within a few levels of your character.

3: D2 had lots of build variety sure, but very few of them were worth doing. There was really only a handful of builds that worked well.

4: D2 had chest, just not as many. But I don't see the issue with using chest for gear. The levels are random, so the chest is never in the same place, and you have to clear 2 levels typically to get to them. What is your issue with them?

 

[Zenoth]

my god dude, you either say one thing and then contradict yourself a sentence later, or you say something that is completely wrong. And you take god damn forever to do it!

d3 = 100% azmodan. This is the CLEAR best way to level. D2 was different and varied. There were options even if you say baal was best.

beat diablo in normal and go into nm. you are in act 1? no worries, just join someone else's game starting at the diablo quest and you can go straight to hell!

people always try to say that there was no build variety in D2. dead wrong

and your whole "chest" rant. ugh. where were these chests in d2? nowhere to be found. like you said yourself there were lots of good MF spots, LOTS. it wasn't the same thing over and over, no real exploits

I'll give it a last try (I promise).

1) There is no "clear best way to level" if you don't care about it. I'm not sure how I can explain that differently. That whole "100% Azmodan" thing... I HONESTLY learned about it this morning. I have two toons in Nightmare, I have three in Normal still, I'm currently leveling up my Monk in Normal, at my own pace, as I see fit and as it pleases me. I am not "rushing" anything and I do NOT "plan to" go the "best way" to level up. I just enjoy the game as I play, and my levels come in as I gain experience around NOT by "just doing" the whole indirect Azmodan quests. I do NOT for the life of me understand the point of trying to level up "as fast" as possible by using such methods. To me there's no "clear" best way to level, there is "play the game and gain experience" as you see fit. If you really want to debate about something so subjective you'll have to do it alone from this point.

2) Huh... yeah in D3, you're in Act I Nightmare? No worries, just join someone else's game starting at the quest you happen to be in, in Tristram, and level up questing straight to Hell! What's your point there? In D2, you go "straight to hell" by either playing "regularly" or by "rushing" and getting rushed by someone else, avoiding some quests on your way, only doing the "main" ones, and going back to those missed quests later on (such as Den of Evil, Izual, etc). In D3, you follow the main quests and you can ignore randomly found Events. What a BIG deal huh? Really, if I feel "stuck" in D3's Nightmare or Hell, I WILL join someone else's game that happens to be at the same quest I was in, and I'll level up with that or those other players. The ONLY difference is that there's no "rush" leveling in D3 as it could be done in D2. That's IT... nothing else.

3) People "try" to say there's no build variety in D2 and they're wrong? Yep I agree. Did I say that? No. I said D2's build variety (because there IS variety) is NOT as exploited as it could have been on paper. The number of builds that you can end up with ON PAPER is probably higher than what D3's build system can offer. But, ultimately, MOST players went with well known cookie cutter builds in D2. MOST D2 players used about the same builds with SLIGHT variations (build-wise... NOT gear-wise). The actual GEAR added more variety to the "build" than the build itself. We could have CHARMS that added +1 to specific skills or skill trees, we could have specific +1 (or more) to specific skills coming from Magical bonuses on the items themselves. That kind of variety IS what D3's build system could use to make it "better" than what it is now BUT that is NOT to say that D3's build system is non-existent.

I CAN use a good number of skills combinations as my build for my D3 characters just as much if not more than what I CARED to in D2, not what I "could". Again, I'll repeat myself, D2's build variety DID exist, there WAS variety but most players did NOT exploit it as much as it could have been. The worst case scenario is that D3's build system is about "as worse as" or "as good as" D2's build system in the sense that in both games players will end up using maybe 2 or 3 different builds even if they could end up with dozens of them on paper.

There's a clear distinction to make between the NUMBER of possible build variations on paper, and the number of possible build variations you'll end up using out of them all during actual game-play. What D2's "superiority" might come as is the number of builds on paper that you can create, but THAT'S IT. Each one of D2's classes had three skill trees and from those trees most players used the same skills, can you DENY that? Have you ever played those Baal runs? Have you ever really encountered a great deal of builds variety from D2 players and their favorite classes? I've never seen a seriously built "Throw Barb" out there in my Baal runs, but they exist on paper. In D3 I think I've seen ONE Barb using Whirlwind out of the dozens I've seen so far whom mostly use Hammer of Ancients.

Anyway... builds variations on paper and the ones being used and preferred by the community is two completely different things.

4) Chests "rant"? You don't understand what I meant. The big golden chests in D3's Level 2 maps do have a chance to provide good loot. In D2, there were chests everywhere, but I'm not speaking about "big golden chests", I'm speaking about those little useless chests that often ended up locked. What was better, having hundreds of chests on the fields of D2 maps that sometimes gave you a key after opening one that was locked (lol?), or actually clearing a map in D3, finding a cave, going to Level 2 of that cave and finding a big golden chest that actually do have a chance to give you something good enough, more than just some Gold or a Key like in D2?

Again, technically, both D2's and D3's "Magic Find Locations" could be ANYWHERE you chose to go. The difference is limited by what the player CARES to do, or clear, or which boss to go for. In D2, "magic find" is applied from any mob you kill, but OF COURSE you'll go for a boss rather than just going on the Cold Plains of Act I to clear the mobs there. In D3, you can't really do "boss runs" so you clear the maps instead, if you CARE TO do so. You kill the mobs as you clear the map you're in, and you may or may not find some random Event at the end of which you might get Experience and/or Gold. You may or may not find a "random" cave at the end of which you'll ALWAYS find a golden chest and some elite mobs for potential rewards.

Both D2 and D3 have a great variety of LOCATIONS to "magic find" in, as long as the player CARES about them, but they (locations) exist on paper, they are there, you just need to play the damn thing!

 

[darkewaffle]

my god dude, you either say one thing and then contradict yourself a sentence later, or you say something that is completely wrong. And you take god damn forever to do it!

d3 = 100% azmodan. This is the CLEAR best way to level. D2 was different and varied. There were options even if you say baal was best.

beat diablo in normal and go into nm. you are in act 1? no worries, just join someone else's game starting at the diablo quest and you can go straight to hell!

people always try to say that there was no build variety in D2. dead wrong

and your whole "chest" rant. ugh. where were these chests in d2? nowhere to be found. like you said yourself there were lots of good MF spots, LOTS. it wasn't the same thing over and over, no real exploits

And it was clear that the best way to level in D2 was Baal runs post expansion and Cows or CS pre-expansion. Actually if you had the means, glitch rushing to uber tristram was lightyears ahead of anything else but not everyone could do that.

Build variety in D2 existed in the sense that you -could- build other things, but there weren't many reasons to do so. Personally I was always quite fond of my zealot paladins but there was no denying that they simply couldn't compare to a hammerdin. Sorcs were really the only classes that seemed to switch much up in my time playing, but even then it felt like almost all of them were just variations on the cold tree.

The sample size for MFing is still far too small. I don't believe "we" have any details on chest levels, enemy levels, how levels affect drops or essentially know any of what was known in D2 with respect to drop/mf mechanics nor calculations. Saying "chests are best" is just as much of a guess as anything else is. Chests are probably the easiest application of MF (just like D2), but that doesn't make them the best necessarily.

 

[CU]

Do the plus damage stats on items count toward skills that do x% of weapon damage? Basically when a skill does x% of weapon damage, do I look at the weapon dps or my characters total dps?

 

[Chiropteran]

and your whole "chest" rant. ugh. where were these chests in d2? nowhere to be found. like you said yourself there were lots of good MF spots, LOTS. it wasn't the same thing over and over, no real exploits

Are you joke? D2 was nothing but duping and exploits.

(It's not really an exploit if a chest is "too easy" to reach, but I'll use your term)
I'd much rather have a few easily obtained "exploit" chests in D3 than the situation D2 was in.

 

[EDUSAN]

I completely agree with Zenoth.

D2, as fun as it could be, was the most exploited game i ever played. Why people complain about the campaign being short if everything that everyone seems to want is to be TPed to the final boss and repeat it to reach max level? its skipping the whole game

If you stop thinking like "i need to level up the fastest with the less effort" and actually enjoy the game it will be better

Remember that D3 is not a race to the never-close lvl 99. D2 was like that and then i think that it would be all right to think "man i need to level fast cause im gonna be leveling forever, so i better get the most from every minute of gameplay"
Diablo 3 has a level cap, do you really want to hit the cap just by doing the same thing over and over again?

 

[Soccerman06]

because im at work and cant look it up what was the run dooing before they nerfeed it?

They basically nerfed mantra of healing

patch notes

Below you'll find a list of hotfixes which address various gameplay and service issues affecting Diablo III. Hotfixes are updates we make on our end without requiring you to download a new patch. Some of the hotfixes below will go live the moment they are implemented, while others may require your realm to be restarted to go into effect. Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update. We will continue to update this thread in the days ahead as additional hotfixes are applied.
Spoiler Warning: If you have not yet completed Diablo III on Normal, some hotfixes described in this list may include spoilers.

// May 22 //
General

Players will now receive an error message when attempting to remove a gem from an item with no sockets (rather than disconnecting)
Players will now properly have their casting interrupted when attacked while performing resurrect on a fallen group member
Resolved over 30 game and service crashes affecting players

Classes

Demon Hunter
Active Skills
Smoke Screen
Duration reduced from 2 seconds to 1 second (tooltip will still show 2 seconds)
Skill Rune - Lingering Fog
Now increases the duration of Smoke Screen to 1.5 seconds (tooltip will still show 3 seconds)
Monk
Active Skills
Fists of Thunder
Skill Rune - Quickening
Fixed an issue that was causing spirit regeneration to incorrectly trigger off critical hits from other sources, such as Sweeping Wind
Mantra of Healing
Mantra of Healing will now correctly provide only two times the base healing effect for the first 3 seconds after activation, down from four times the base healing effect (tooltip will still show the old value)
Skill Rune - Boon of Protection
A maximum absorption amount has been set to 1000 Life. This skill will be redesigned in an upcoming patch.

Wizard
Active Skills
Arcane Torrent
Skill Rune - Cascade
Fixed an issue that was causing Arcane Torrent to fire 3 new missiles per kill instead of only 1 new missile per kill
Number of new missiles generated from this rune will now cap at 10 missiles
Energy Armor
Skill Rune - Force Armor
Amount of damage absorbed from a single attack will now cap at 100% of a player’s maximum Life

Items

The rare chest in the Town Cellar in Alcanus will now only spawn 50% of the time, down from 100%
Players can no longer dual-wield two-handed weapons


// May 18 //
Classes

Monk
Active Skills
Serenity
Skill Rune - Tranquility
Duration of immunity granted to nearby allies from crowd control effects reduced from 2 seconds to 1 second

Encounters

Players will no longer remain invulnerable to attacks after defeating Diablo.
Players can no longer become stuck during Diablo’s Shadow Grab ability if a player blinds Diablo while Shadow Grab is being cast.

Items

Equipping a shield on a follower as a demon hunter will no longer disconnect you from the game.

Quests

Act I
Players can now always interact with Karyna during the quest and quest step "Trailing the Coven : Talk to Karyna" when they resume from a save.
Act II
The Enchantress will now always appear during the quest and quest step "Shadows in the Desert : Disrupt the Hidden Conclave."
Act IV
Tyrael will now always be present for the in-game cutscene during the quest and quest step "Prime Evil : Climb to the Pinnacle of Heaven in the Silver Spire."

 

[KaOTiK]

Is the AH down for anyone else?

 

[boozie]

My biggest problem in D2 was inexperience to know how much something is worth. This continues to be an issue for me in D3. I stumbled upon a unique last night: (String of Ears)

While I didn't get a great roll on everything, I did manage to get 100 dex and 11% MF on it for random modifiers. So now how the heck do I try and price it on the AH? Is the damage reduction and resist all what really drives the price or will these modifiers make it worth a ton more?

[e]For reference, out of 100+ of this unique listed on the AH, none of them had MF on them and only one of them had more dex than mine.

 

[Anubis]

Skill Rune - Boon of Protection
A maximum absorption amount has been set to 1000 Life. This skill will be redesigned in an upcoming patch.

what did it do before is what i was asking

 

[CottonRabbit]

Don't really understand the nerfs. Certain intended gameplay mechanics are still broken (crits on DOTs and channels) but instead they spend their time nerfing skills into to oblivion. Those skills were effective, but none of those 3 skills were game breaking. All it does is further reduce the number of viable end game builds.

 

[darkewaffle]

My biggest problem in D2 was inexperience to know how much something is worth. This continues to be an issue for me in D3. I stumbled upon a unique last night: (String of Ears)

While I didn't get a great roll on everything, I did manage to get 100 dex and 11% MF on it for random modifiers. So now how the heck do I try and price it on the AH? Is the damage reduction and resist all what really drives the price or will these modifiers make it worth a ton more?

I would think the reduction/resists alone would make it quite valuable.

But for a price simply look it up, there's a box in the lower left corner of the AH specifically used for uniques and set items, so plug the name in there and see what others are selling it for.

 

[Onita]

Is the AH down for anyone else?

The AH is down for everyone else. There was a note on login about it.

 

[Onita]

what did it do before is what i was asking

Any hit that took more than 35% of your health only took 35% I believe. So sorcs would go 0 vit + regen and never die.

 

[CottonRabbit]

Any hit that took more than 35% of your health only took 35% I believe. So sorcs would go 0 vit + regen and never die.

Except everything worth farming in Inferno either had a DOT or could hit you more than 3 times in a second and would instant kill you. This build was only effective against trash mobs and a few heavy hitting bosses. It was a non-issue that went out of control on the forums.

 

[Aikouka]

what did it do before is what i was asking

If I remember correctly, It was 15% of your max life.

 

[Dominato3r]

AH might be down because of what was happening early this morning around 12:30 - 1

Essentially pages of 700+dps legendaries were disappearing. Forums were in outrage thinking blizzard was stealth nerfing or fixing itemization.