**OFFICIAL** Diablo 3 Thread

[QuantumPion]

We are now utterly confused about the most important stat, eg. for a wizard.

Everyone tells you INT, INT, INT and i had no reason to doubt this. On the forums, there are posts where people say that your spell DPS is derived from your weapon DPS...eg means that "weapon damage" would be the most important stat.

Low and behold, i got crazy results when i look at my wizard damage by testing out different weapons and stats:

* I had a weapon which i assumed "kick ass" with over 105 Intel on it which netted me barely 800 dps damage.
* Replacing the weapon with a cheap RANDOM "test weapon" which i bought from AH for only 900g which has strength (!!!) on it, an utterly worthless stat for a wiz but higher DPS and weapon damage...my damage went up almost 50%!!!
* Then i tweaked my DPS from a measly 800ish DPS to almost 1500 DPS just by selecting a weapon with the most DPS + empty socket - the stats like Intel etc. are totally irrelevant, it's about weapon DPS and putting a red gem in it. (Red gem is the best for weapons since it gives weapon damage which in turn gives more DPS than the other colors)

Uh I don't know where the confusion comes from.
Wizard spell damage = weapon damage * intelligence * skill bonus * spell bonus. 1 int=+1%. At lower levels increasing weapon damage will have a more noticeable impact on spell damage but as you get higher and higher, int becomes more important. This is just due to the linear scaling of weapon damage vs the exponential scaling of intelligence. Note that we're talking about weapon damage here, not DPS.

 

[Daverino]

I thought it was pretty straightforwards that your base damage, regardless of class is you base weapon damage * your primary stat modifier.

A low base damage multiplied by a high modifier is still going to be low. Similarly, a high base damage multiplied by a low modifier will be low. If you want to get from 10 damage to 20, you either need a weapon with 10 more damage or enough of your primary stat for a 200% modifier.

 

[darkewaffle]

We are now utterly confused about the most important stat, eg. for a wizard.

Int is your most important "stat", but it's just another modifier. The weapon damage is essentially your 'keystone' and you won't find many situations where higher weapon DPS results in lower overall DPS.

It is possible however. If you had a 100 DPS weapon with 500 Int on it, it could very well be stronger than a 300 DPS weapon with no Int on it (though again, technically that also depends on other factors like ASPD, current Int, skill/passive modifiers, etc).

In general, look for weapons with high raw DPS coupled with a generous helping of your damage stat.

 

[QuantumPion]

Int is your most important "stat", but it's just another modifier. The weapon damage is essentially your 'keystone' and you won't find many situations where higher weapon DPS results in lower overall DPS.

It is possible however. If you had a 100 DPS weapon with 500 Int on it, it could very well be stronger than a 300 DPS weapon with no Int on it (though again, technically that also depends on other factors like ASPD, current Int, skill/passive modifiers, etc).

In general, look for weapons with high raw DPS coupled with a generous helping of your damage stat.

Actually for the same DPS, a faster attack speed will give lower damage. So if you have a 10 DPS 1.0 speed axe vs a 10 DPS 1.5 speed wand, the axe will give higher reported damage (the wand will allow you to cast your spells faster but they do less damage, giving the same DPS. Note that this makes slow weapons more mana efficient, especially when using one-off mana-expensive spells like arcane orb, meteor, etc). I'm not sure if weapon speed effects how fast the Hydra attacks.

 

[Ashenor]

He knows all that. What he is saying is that it would be nice to be able to move things between your stash and EVERY character's inventory from 1 screen. The AH sell screen does allow you to see every character's inventory, including what they're wearing, so it would be nice to be able to just grab it and move it to another character from there.

Reduce a process like this:
1) select one character from menu screen
2) enter a game
3) put item(s) in shared stash
4) leave game
5) choose new character
6) enter a game
7) grab item(s)
8) repeat 4-7 for each character you want to move items to, or 1-8 if you got stuff to move back and forth between several characters' inventories

to this:
1) go to AH sell screen from menu
2) click a character's tab
3) grab item
4) click another character tab
5) place item
6) repeat as needed from the 1 screen

I guess i fail to see how that would be considered a big deal, there is a stash, you can access every toons inventory from the AH. Big deal if you have to log in to that toon to access the stash and equip the item. How often are you buying upgrades? I know at 60 they are few and far between with hunting for stuff for a decent price or farming money for new stuff.

 

[EDUSAN]

so the best modifiers i could get for any class is

damage modifiers + primary stat modifier

those items that have + 2-8 weapon damage are directly adding to the weapon dps? or it just adds 2-8 damage in a different way?

 

[slayer202]

Actually for the same DPS, a faster attack speed will give lower damage. So if you have a 10 DPS 1.0 speed axe vs a 10 DPS 1.5 speed wand, the axe will give higher reported damage (the wand will allow you to cast your spells faster but they do less damage, giving the same DPS. Note that this makes slow weapons more mana efficient, especially when using one-off mana-expensive spells like arcane orb, meteor, etc). I'm not sure if weapon speed effects how fast the Hydra attacks.

Attack speed is calculated in DPS, and also in the damage listed on your character screen, so 10 dps = 10 dps, you shouldn't ever see a number that doesn't take this into account. but I hear what you're saying.

 

[Kabob]

I have a hell of a time buying gems. I always fail and lose the gold and have to wait to get my gold back, and sometimes it will fail but still buy the gem, so I overbuy a lot because I spam the buyout...

I experienced the pain of buying gems in the AH for the first time yesterday, absolutely ridiculous. Get the message "failed" and then an hour later gems appear in my "won" tab. Won stuff that never appeared, bought gems of a certain type and instead it puts a lower quality gem in my "won" area.

Fix it Blizzard...

 

[slayer202]

so the best modifiers i could get for any class is

damage modifiers + primary stat modifier

those items that have + 2-8 weapon damage are directly adding to the weapon dps? or it just adds 2-8 damage in a different way?

I think the added 2-8 damage will then be multiplied by your primary stat, which means more than just 5 damage added to your overall DPS. So yeah, it's like being added to your weapon DPS.


On a side note, how does magic dmg apply to weapon DPS? Does 10-20 arcane damage factor in to the shown DPS? Furthermore, does your primary stat boost that damage?

 

[EDUSAN]

so many questions, so few answers haha

 

[darkewaffle]

Actually for the same DPS, a faster attack speed will give lower damage. So if you have a 10 DPS 1.0 speed axe vs a 10 DPS 1.5 speed wand, the axe will give higher reported damage (the wand will allow you to cast your spells faster but they do less damage, giving the same DPS. Note that this makes slow weapons more mana efficient).

True, DPS does kind of function under the assumption that you can just 'turret cast' which would keep an X DPS fast weapon even with an X DPS slow weapon over time, but that isn't really the case given the amount of kiting that goes on.

 

[crownjules]

On a side note, how does magic dmg apply to weapon DPS? Does 10-20 arcane damage factor in to the shown DPS? Furthermore, does your primary stat boost that damage?

Your primary stat isn't added to what's shown as the weapon's DPS. But on your inventory screen where your stats are listed, everything (base damage, ASPD, crit % + crit multiplier, so one) is considered for the Damage stat. I know because I remember gemming for crit % and it bumped the number up a few points.

I believe all affixes are considered in the weapon's final DPS tally.

 

[nanobreath]

I experienced the pain of buying gems in the AH for the first time yesterday, absolutely ridiculous. Get the message "failed" and then an hour later gems appear in my "won" tab. Won stuff that never appeared, bought gems of a certain type and instead it puts a lower quality gem in my "won" area.

Fix it Blizzard...

Blizz took down the gems/craft reagents down this morning. Complete disabled that portion of the AH. Say they are working on a method to make it work better. I imagine they disabled it in hopes of speeding up the AH overall.

 

[KidNiki1]

He knows all that. What he is saying is that it would be nice to be able to move things between your stash and EVERY character's inventory from 1 screen. The AH sell screen does allow you to see every character's inventory, including what they're wearing, so it would be nice to be able to just grab it and move it to another character from there.

Reduce a process like this:
1) select one character from menu screen
2) enter a game
3) put item(s) in shared stash
4) leave game
5) choose new character
6) enter a game
7) grab item(s)
8) repeat 4-7 for each character you want to move items to, or 1-8 if you got stuff to move back and forth between several characters' inventories

to this:
1) go to AH sell screen from menu
2) click a character's tab
3) grab item
4) click another character tab
5) place item
6) repeat as needed from the 1 screen

i guess im not using my characters inventories they way you are. when i get stuff on my DH that i think my other characters can use...when i go to town, i put it in my stash. i dont immediately log out and then log in to the other toon to get it. it just stays there until im ready to play that particular other toon that could use it. i dont have a lot of log out log in log out log in to deal with. my individual toons inventories are empty unless im running around killing and looting. i dont need to move stuff between toons like that because anything i want to 'share' goes in the stash.

 

[darkxshade]

But it's quite hard when you're looking at rares. I'm at work otherwise I'd post my items and see if you guys could find em :/

Nah you're right, the AH is bugged and has been reported by a lot of people. I have the same problem. I asked several friends to do a seach for them so they can help me buy them out cuz I need the space and they too couldn't find them.

Anyway FYI, prior to the AH bugging out, I once tried to find one of my own items and buy it to see what happens. It won't let you. If you actually do happen to stumble across your own item, you'll get a message that tells you you can't buy your own item or something like that.

 

[Kabob]

Random guys in my party on A1 NM asked if my sorc was a tank as I had (at the time) over 6K health. Course, I also had the highest DPS in the party but people seem to think that sorc MUST be a glass cannon...

 

[slayer202]

Your primary stat isn't added to what's shown as the weapon's DPS. But on your inventory screen where your stats are listed, everything (base damage, ASPD, crit % + crit multiplier, so one) is considered for the Damage stat. I know because I remember gemming for crit % and it bumped the number up a few points.

I believe all affixes are considered in the weapon's final DPS tally.

I'm wondering specifically about magic damage. I guess it factors into the weapon's DPS, but I'm not entirely sure. In Diablo 2, any modified damage would not affect elemental damage(If I'm remembering correctly). So if it is the same way in D3, maybe it doesn't even add to the weapon DPS because this would be confusing. I really have no idea and I can't test it since I'm at work

 

[Kabob]

I'm wondering specifically about magic damage. I guess it factors into the weapon's DPS, but I'm not entirely sure. In Diablo 2, any modified damage would not affect elemental damage(If I'm remembering correctly). So if it is the same way in D3, maybe it doesn't even add to the weapon DPS because this would be confusing. I really have no idea and I can't test it since I'm at work

From all I can tell the potency of your spells is directly proportional to your weapon's damage. There is no arbitrary "Skill levels" anymore and the only stats (other than INT) are weapon damage and direct +damage stats on items.

 

[slayer202]

From all I can tell the potency of your spells is directly proportional to your weapon's damage. There is no arbitrary "Skill levels" anymore and the only stats (other than INT) are weapon damage and direct +damage stats on items.

Sorry, I don't mean skill damage, but magic damage on weapons. Arcane or cold damage for example

 

[stag3]

wow i need a better build, my venom hydra/blizzard combo is not working due to how slow the wizard is, that or i need +% to movement armor pieces lol

inferno is brutal once you come on a pack of champions, the bosses aren't a problem

 

[darkewaffle]

I think the added 2-8 damage will then be multiplied by your primary stat, which means more than just 5 damage added to your overall DPS. So yeah, it's like being added to your weapon DPS.


On a side note, how does magic dmg apply to weapon DPS? Does 10-20 arcane damage factor in to the shown DPS? Furthermore, does your primary stat boost that damage?

The "added damage" you see on a weapon is included in it's raw DPS calculation, hence why the big fat 1000+ DPS weapons on the AH are the ones with "300 - 500 added fire damage" or what have you. Furthermore it is included in the displayed damage range.

For example, if you have a weapon that shows 10-20 damage and the tooltip shows "3-5 cold damage added" that means each swing that weapon is actually dealing 7-15 physical and 3-5 cold. However I believe that only occurs on actual 'physical attacks', and spellcasters need only care about the overall damage as it's all 'translated' into the element of the spell they are casting.

I would imagine that elemental (or rather, non physical) damage is going to be subject to whatever resistance the enemy has to that element as well. But it's going to take a lot of testing to determine whether that actually is worth taking into consideration or not. In D2 it made a big difference because you had enemies who could be extremely resistant or completely immune to some damage types, in D3 anecdotally I would say it's less of an issue but that definitely is unconfirmed.

Your primary stats increase your damage by 1% each. So if you had a weapon that dealt exactly 10 damage each swing and you had 0 strength, you would deal 10 damage each swing. 50 str = 15 damage, 200 str = 30 damage, 1000 str = 110 damage, etc.

Essentially, as one of the other posters said before, your damage for an ability is going to be weapon damage (max, min, average, whatever you want to work off of) * stat modifier (1% per point) * skill damage (the % found in the tooltip) * extraneous modifiers (is the enemy taking amplified damage? do you have any damage bonuses from passive skills or current buffs? did the ability score a critical hit?) and that lump damage is then subject to armor/resistance.


One interesting post I read on the D3 forums earlier today that I'm interested in testing when I get home.

with weapons its really only the physical that matters. A bow with a lot of elemental damage might look cool if its boasting a big dps number. But in actuality that elemental damage only adds the amount of elemental damage and does not scale or gain bonuses like the physical damage would.

For instance on my hunter if I put on a bow with 800 dps that is all real physical damage then my DPS is about 35000. However If I put on a bow that does 800 damage but its 400 physical and 400 fire then my DPS drops drastically and is only about 22000.

So in other words elemental damage does not gain bonuses from dex, physical does.

Supposedly the poster is claiming that non-physical damage on weapons is 'static' in a sense, but as I said that's just one guy's opinion. It is possible though as that is how D2 treated elemental damage on weapons; I'm curious to test later.

 

[slayer202]

Supposedly the poster is claiming that non-physical damage on weapons is 'static' in a sense, but as I said that's just one guy's opinion. It is possible though as that is how D2 treated elemental damage on weapons; I'm curious to test later.

This is the real question, and I'll believe the quote you posted as I have no reason not to, and I haven't been able to test it myself. That really is a major factor to look at when buying an item from the auction house.

 

[ch33zw1z]

i guess im not using my characters inventories they way you are. when i get stuff on my DH that i think my other characters can use...when i go to town, i put it in my stash. i dont immediately log out and then log in to the other toon to get it. it just stays there until im ready to play that particular other toon that could use it. i dont have a lot of log out log in log out log in to deal with. my individual toons inventories are empty unless im running around killing and looting. i dont need to move stuff between toons like that because anything i want to 'share' goes in the stash.

I do this, just put item in the stash. Get item from stash when using that player. Anything I carry on a player is looted, or stash over flow until I get enough gold to buy more stash space.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Sorry, I don't mean skill damage, but magic damage on weapons. Arcane or cold damage for example

Those are taken into account for the listed DPS of the weapon. You have to take note that somtimes its not taken into account for a socketed ruby when displayed in the AH. So usually stear on the side of caution and not buy weapons already socketed.

Also the extra damage on ring/amulets is added to the weapon damage and multiplied by your skill bonus. So if you have 400 INT and a 2-4+ dam ring and a 1.5 attacks/sec weapon your dps bonus should be around 15-30 (+22.5 avg).

Early game the +damage rings/amulets and ruby socketed weapons are great. Late game your main stat makes more of a difference since weapon damage grows exponentially compared to the +damage bonuses you can find on rings/amulets.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Supposedly the poster is claiming that non-physical damage on weapons is 'static' in a sense, but as I said that's just one guy's opinion. It is possible though as that is how D2 treated elemental damage on weapons; I'm curious to test later.

If this is true, I wonder if the damage type also transfers. This would mean that it simply adds that '400 fire damage' proc at the end of all damage calculations (before armor/resist reductions.) I wonder if it does this with +physical damage as well?

Should be easy to test.