**OFFICIAL** Diablo 3 Thread

[diesbudt]

Apples and oranges. You can complete exactly as much of the game in D2 as you can in D3 with NPC-bought and dropped gear - Normal through Hell.

There is no real D2 analogue to D3 Inferno (DClone and Pandemonium excluded). If D2 had a 'secret super difficulty' people would have run into the same barriers (not accounting for the fact that skills were much more overpowered and D2 being much simpler to play), except it would be even more difficult to overcome because trading was such an arbitrary mess.

This.

Plus I never actually found inferno all that hard. Act 1 and 2 have been simple. And I have said it before in this forum. But I haven't spent more than 1.5million gold on items on the AH, spent $0 and I am practicaly done with Act 3 Inferno.

People assume you need the best gear to move on, that is not true. Also, it depends a lot on class and if you can play well or not. I know many people who play the same classes I do with much better gear yet die much easier/quicker because they don't "get it" when it comes to playing inferno with said character.

 

[clamum]

I don't get peoples' bitching about Inferno. If you had actually read what Blizzard said about Inferno, you would understand, am I right?

Maybe I have to see/do it for myself? But then again, I read what Blizzard said about it and can assume what to expect.

 

[ch33zw1z]

you should have poopsocked.

It was a no. 1...

I used to leave D2 running most of the time.

Blizzard's system is smart. So far, I've only been disconnected when playing solo, or in a multi-player game that is still me by myself, but doesn't pause.

When I've gone afk in a multiplayer game and other people are still there, even if their idle, then I haven't been booted.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Apples and oranges. You can complete exactly as much of the game in D2 as you can in D3 with NPC-bought and dropped gear - Normal through Hell.

There is no real D2 analogue to D3 Inferno (DClone and Pandemonium excluded). If D2 had a 'secret super difficulty' people would have run into the same barriers (not accounting for the fact that skills were much more overpowered and D2 being much simpler to play), except it would be even more difficult to overcome because trading was such an arbitrary mess.

That's all well and good, but their seeing people quit playing after just over 2 months of being live for a reason.

 

[SS Trooper]

I took a little over a week off and logged in last night. I hung up the sword and board for my barb and pulled out his big one. (Haha) Good times smashing things again instead of poking them 1000 times very quickly.

Looking at his gear I realized it had become pretty outdated. I went to the AH and nearly crapped my pants. Damn stuff is cheap. I upgraded bracers for 20k.... 20k!!!! 62 RA 6% reduced ranged attack 80 STR 60 Vit and others that escape my memory atm. Found some decent boots that I spent a half mil on ( I didn't care since I just robbed a great pair of bracers) Bid on a chest thats a huge upgrade (still going)

Rings.... are still crazy.

I found that I love being "the guy" that runs up the bid on an item, but never wins it. I ran up 2 rings yesterday from 200k to 800k before I backed out. I lose the item but I laugh that I just cost someone 500k

I took my shiney upgrades into Act3 inferno. Died to the 2nd or 3rd pack. Lol. Stupid broken 2 handed barbs.

 

[bonkers325]

Apples and oranges. You can complete exactly as much of the game in D2 as you can in D3 with NPC-bought and dropped gear - Normal through Hell.

There is no real D2 analogue to D3 Inferno (DClone and Pandemonium excluded). If D2 had a 'secret super difficulty' people would have run into the same barriers (not accounting for the fact that skills were much more overpowered and D2 being much simpler to play), except it would be even more difficult to overcome because trading was such an arbitrary mess.

i agree. if you compare D2 normal-nm-hell w/ D3 normal-nm-hell, it's the exact same feeling. anything you find off the floor is good enough to complete those difficulties. thats where the similarities end... but people always go back to D2 as the baseline for D3 gameplay. most people remember D2 fondly because of the later revisions in gameplay - gameplay that was largely altered due to widespread botting and duping. at least, that's how i remember it.

 

[diesbudt]

i agree. if you compare D2 normal-nm-hell w/ D3 normal-nm-hell, it's the exact same feeling. anything you find off the floor is good enough to complete those difficulties. thats where the similarities end... but people always go back to D2 as the baseline for D3 gameplay. most people remember D2 fondly because of the later revisions in gameplay - gameplay that was largely altered due to widespread botting and duping. at least, that's how i remember it.

Not just botting and duping. But a lot of complaints with D2, were changed/resolved in the LoD expansion.

And then, a lot of ideas that floated around for 10-12 years online, on other blizzard game forums etc. They used for D3. Turns out people don't always know what they want.

Now I am not saying this game is breathtaking amazing, but I really liked it and enjoyed it. Had a lot of fun. That is all that matters.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I took a little over a week off and logged in last night. I hung up the sword and board for my barb and pulled out his big one. (Haha) Good times smashing things again instead of poking them 1000 times very quickly.

Looking at his gear I realized it had become pretty outdated. I went to the AH and nearly crapped my pants. Damn stuff is cheap. I upgraded bracers for 20k.... 20k!!!! 62 RA 6% reduced ranged attack 80 STR 60 Vit and others that escape my memory atm. Found some decent boots that I spent a half mil on ( I didn't care since I just robbed a great pair of bracers) Bid on a chest thats a huge upgrade (still going)

Rings.... are still crazy.

I found that I love being "the guy" that runs up the bid on an item, but never wins it. I ran up 2 rings yesterday from 200k to 800k before I backed out. I lose the item but I laugh that I just cost someone 500k

I took my shiney upgrades into Act3 inferno. Died to the 2nd or 3rd pack. Lol. Stupid broken 2 handed barbs.

haha, I love doing that with rings ...starts at 50k, I quit around 8 million or so, LOL.

 

[Imp]

What is currently the best class for end-game (act 3/4 inferno)? I went all out on my last character (Demon Hunter) because I thought it would be my all time main and the best class, along with my best chance to actually beat inferno. It didn't work out though. Act 3 inferno made all my 31k life, 3k+ armor, and 750+ all resists seem completely worthless, like they didn't have any effect at all. So at the moment I'm trying to sell most of my DH equip.

Barb or Monk.

I have a Barb into Act 3 and he helped tank much of Act 2. Unfortunately, his damage sucks, so I can't get anywhere efficiently.

I just finished leveling a Wizard to level 60, blew a million gold on equipment (spent almost nothing from 1-60), then gave up... My DH can farm better by killing faster and dying a lot less, so why bother...

Might make a Monk for shits and giggles when I have the time, or I finally get a good 1-H weapon for my barb.

Looks like the RMAH is running low on gold? Up until this weekend, it took about 24 hours to sell a lot of 400k gold. In the past 3 days, it's only taken 5 hours or less. Interdasting...

 

[darkxshade]

I hope Bliz gives monks some love in the dps department soon. Monks can get high dps but it's prohibitively expensive. I'm at 38k with sword & board but I may have to drop it about 3-4k to get more LoH. Goal is to hit 40kdps with 1k LoH while remaining tanky. It's going to cost.

 

[diesbudt]

What is currently the best class for end-game (act 3/4 inferno)? I went all out on my last character (Demon Hunter) because I thought it would be my all time main and the best class, along with my best chance to actually beat inferno. It didn't work out though. Act 3 inferno made all my 31k life, 3k+ armor, and 750+ all resists seem completely worthless, like they didn't have any effect at all. So at the moment I'm trying to sell most of my DH equip.

From what I've seen Monks seem to be the hardest bunch to kill, perhaps they don't dish out as much damage as some other classes, but if they don't die, then it doesn't really matter how much damage they do, as long as it's not crazy low. Then again, I know nothing about the Monk class.

I digress. The question remains, what's the best end-game D3 class at the moment? I'm guessing it's Monk despite not knowing anything about the class, just based on what i've seen.

Selling my DH's equip may net me 30+ million gold, more around 40mill if I'm really lucky. I was thinking about investing that into a Monk. I don't want inferno to seem like a 13000ft un-scalable mountain (metaphors, yo!) any longer. Inferno act 3/4 haunts my dreams.

I am kicking ass with my wizard.

Probably Monk though from what I hear.

 

[darkxshade]

Why is the monk the best end-game class? Everyone is saying monk but I'm curious what the reasoning is? I have one and I have no clue because I haven't played any other class.

I guess from what I've seen, monks are the most balanced?

 

[diesbudt]

Why is the monk the best end-game class? Everyone is saying monk but I'm curious what the reasoning is? I have one and I have no clue because I haven't played any other class.

I guess from what I've seen, monks are the most balanced?

They have the most survivability when face tanking mobs when geared appropriately, and just enough dps to kill things in time.

Plus a lot of people are not the best kiters so a DK/Wizard doesn't work for them.

 

[bonkers325]

Why is the monk the best end-game class? Everyone is saying monk but I'm curious what the reasoning is? I have one and I have no clue because I haven't played any other class.

I guess from what I've seen, monks are the most balanced?

where do you read that they are the best class in the game? they're about on par with barbs in terms of tankiness and survivability.

 

[darkxshade]

They have the most survivability when face tanking mobs when geared appropriately, and just enough dps to kill things in time.

Plus a lot of people are not the best kiters so a DK/Wizard doesn't work for them.

Then what's wrong with barbs? Don't they have more survivability and dps?

 

[diesbudt]

Then what's wrong with barbs? Don't they have more survivability and dps?

Comes down to abilities I persume. Or passives.

 

[bonkers325]

I am kicking ass with my wizard.

Probably Monk though from what I hear.

teleport w/ fracture + archon = permanent invulnerability

activate both at the same time i think. someone posted this on battlenet forums recently.

 

[bonkers325]

Then what's wrong with barbs? Don't they have more survivability and dps?

barbs are FOTM and their gear costs are through the roof.

 

[darkxshade]

Gearing my monk ain't no walk in the park either.

 

[bonkers325]

Gearing my monk ain't no walk in the park either.

yes, but imagine if half the diablo community was trying to build a monk with similar gear requirements as you. it'd be even more expensive.

 

[diesbudt]

teleport w/ fracture + archon = permanent invulnerability

activate both at the same time i think. someone posted this on battlenet forums recently.

Interesting...

May have to see what happens when I use that.

Mostly I just use Teleport + fracture and diamond skin as my defensive abilities.

Blizzard, Hydra, Arcane missile, and energy armor as my other abilities.

 

[epseja]

I've been playing since day one (actually, the Beta as well). Anyhow, I have developed some thoughts that I suspect others may have as well. Overall, I think the game is quite good, but there are certain things that bug me still.

[FONT=&quot]Unfortunately is lacking bravado . There's no "new strategy" that occurs with each level. Only when you're at 60th can you really fiddle with all your skills and runes to come up with a new, cool combo. Getting there is now the big race it seems -- which makes the journey a little less exciting.[/FONT]

Then comes the existence at all of the +XP modifier. "Realistically" (word used lightly), how would donning a piece of armor or using a certain weapon help you learn faster? Mechanically, it's existence points to something worse -- that the leveling system is either broken, or that the programmers know that the game can get boring as you're powering through the first twenty levels of so. Either way, it's disheartening.

Lastly, what of Nightmare, Hell and Inferno? Based on the comments from the development team, it seems that their main goal was to appease the "it's too easy" whiners by ensuring that even the most advanced characters get their asses kicked without fail rather than making situations challenging, but surmountable.

In D2, if you came up against a wickedly powerful boss and minions, you could TP out and live to fight again another day or even simply run away if they weren't too fast. But now, you can't TP away because of the timer. You can't run away if the boss has Vortex or Teleport or Jailer or Frozen. And if you choose to stay and fight? You get one shot at a health potion, and unless you've got half your skill slots devoted to healing and massive defense, you're pretty much going to die.

I am a hardcore-only player who refuses to use the Auction House -- it's no fun to buy the best of the best gear and never get excited when a boss drops something that actually improves your setup. I've only ever lost one 12th level character out of a stable of nine and I enjoy the "realism" of one-death-only playing, but my boss concerns above make advancing to Hell and Inferno levels like playing chicken with a bus. It's not a matter of "if" you're going to get hit and killed, it's more a matter of "when".

Anyhow, I enjoy the game and still play it frequently, and I have faith that the gameplay experience will continue to improve as subsequent patches are released, just like it did in D2 (for whatever reason). Anyone else have similar thoughts?

 

[diesbudt]

I've been playing since day one (actually, the Beta as well). Anyhow, I have developed some thoughts that I suspect others may have as well. Overall, I think the game is quite good, but there are certain things that bug me still.

[FONT=&quot]Unfortunately is lacking bravado . There's no "new strategy" that occurs with each level. Only when you're at 60th can you really fiddle with all your skills and runes to come up with a new, cool combo. Getting there is now the big race it seems -- which makes the journey a little less exciting.[/FONT]

(A)Then comes the existence at all of the +XP modifier. "Realistically" (word used lightly), how would donning a piece of armor or using a certain weapon help you learn faster? Mechanically, it's existence points to something worse -- that the leveling system is either broken, or that the programmers know that the game can get boring as you're powering through the first twenty levels of so. Either way, it's disheartening.

Lastly, what of Nightmare, Hell and Inferno? Based on the comments from the development team, it seems that their main goal was to appease the "it's too easy" whiners by ensuring that even the most advanced characters get their asses kicked without fail rather than making situations challenging, but surmountable.

(B) In D2, if you came up against a wickedly powerful boss and minions, you could TP out and live to fight again another day or even simply run away if they weren't too fast. But now, you can't TP away because of the timer. You can't run away if the boss has Vortex or Teleport or Jailer or Frozen. And if you choose to stay and fight? You get one shot at a health potion, and unless you've got half your skill slots devoted to healing and massive defense, you're pretty much going to die.

I am a hardcore-only player who refuses to use the Auction House -- it's no fun to buy the best of the best gear and never get excited when a boss drops something that actually improves your setup. I've only ever lost one 12th level character out of a stable of nine and I enjoy the "realism" of one-death-only playing, but my boss concerns above make advancing to Hell and Inferno levels like playing chicken with a bus. It's not a matter of "if" you're going to get hit and killed, it's more a matter of "when".

Anyhow, I enjoy the game and still play it frequently, and I have faith that the gameplay experience will continue to improve as subsequent patches are released, just like it did in D2 (for whatever reason). Anyone else have similar thoughts?

A) Have you ever been on a team sport like football? In football during practices we would normally wear 25-50 lbs weights in shirt form attached to our shoulder pads. And get used to that. So when it came game time and we removed them, our body felt lighter and faster when moving around. Same concept really.

B) Thats the point... Teleporting out was a broken mechanic in D2, and allowed for anyone to kill anything all they had to do was spam attack, spam health pots and TP out when out of pots and low on hp. Then repeat. Also you only get one shot if not geared appropriatly. Takes most bosses/hard mobs 3 hits (or more sometimes) to bring me extremely close to dying on my wizard. (And I am not even using the glyph on energy armor that helps this)

 

[epseja]

A) Have you ever been on a team sport like football? In football during practices we would normally wear 25-50 lbs weights in shirt form attached to our shoulder pads. And get used to that. So when it came game time and we removed them, our body felt lighter and faster when moving around. Same concept really.

B) Thats the point... Teleporting out was a broken mechanic in D2, and allowed for anyone to kill anything all they had to do was spam attack, spam health pots and TP out when out of pots and low on hp. Then repeat. Also you only get one shot if not geared appropriatly. Takes most bosses/hard mobs 3 hits (or more sometimes) to bring me extremely close to dying on my wizard. (And I am not even using the glyph on energy armor that helps this)

Thanks for your thoughts. I enjoy a good discussion.

A) Interesting analogy, and point well taken. I do believe now that +XP modifiers can indeed "make sense", but I suppose I meant to relate that more to the topic of the race to level 60, and the cap. To me, it would have made more sense if they simply used a logarithmic scale for leveling that made it extremely difficult to reach level 60, but not impossible to shoot for 61 or beyond... if you've got a whole lot of time.

B) Don't get me wrong, I'm not truly complaining. It just seems that instead of fixing the obvious problems with the D2 insta-TP and health-potion speed-chugging, they also added inescapable offensive capabilities to the bosses, which now seem to tip the scales too far in the other direction.

 

[Alex C]

difference between D2 and D3 - in D2, you could finish the highest difficulty with gear you found off the floor. in D3, you can't even finish the first act of the highest difficulty unless you hit the AH or get extremely lucky with drops.

I'm on Act II Inferno with my Monk without ever buying a thing from either auction house. I think it's more fun that way; I find item upgrades at least once or twice a play session because I didn't buy a bunch of stuff with crazy high stats off the AH. Having a decent chance at getting usable drops really helps keep it interesting, and pushes me to kill every champion pack or unique I come across even if they kick my ass a bunch first. I've been mostly breaking even with the amount of gold found/amount needed for repairs.

My Monk:
DPS: 13,239.41
Armor: 4785
Dex: 1576
Intelligence: 265
Strength: 336
Vitality: 1068
Life: ~50k

Resists are all ~300

I'm using a two handed axe for 718.5 DPS with +112 Dex and +200 Vit.