**OFFICIAL** Diablo 3 Thread

[slayer202]

GlacierFreeze:

Leveling to 13 definitely takes longer in D3 than D2. It is probably scaled to 60 being the level cap instead of 99, so I don't like D3 Lvl 9 and D2 Lvl 9 is an apples to apples comparison.

I think it took just as long or longer in D2. It still look a decent amount of time if you were doing tristram runs in a full game. Imagine playing the game without the help of higher levels and without years of experience playing. Might actually take longer in D2 if you were starting over.

And I'd bet the farm that it is a lot easier to get to lvl 60(if that is the max, I have no idea) than it was to get to 99

 

[GlacierFreeze]

I'm pretty sure that they did nerf the boss drops at some point. After killing skeleton king 12 times I got one yellow item total.

Yeah, probably so. I think I read something the other day that they saw that some rare items were dropping too early for how powerful they are and would now be seen a bit later. I don't disagree with it, because it was easy enough without any yellows on my single play through. I think some people are wanting leet items a little too unnecessarily soon considering how early in the game the beta was based on. Act II will probably pick up a pretty noticeable amount in that regards, not to mention the absence of set items and the other various colored items for that matter in Act I. No big deal in Act I, just as any other game. All the cool shxt always comes after the opening area and a handful of hours of gaming.

 

[Adrenaline]

I think it took just as long or longer in D2. It still look a decent amount of time if you were doing tristram runs in a full game. Imagine playing the game without the help of higher levels and without years of experience playing. Might actually take longer in D2 if you were starting over.

And I'd bet the farm that it is a lot easier to get to lvl 60(if that is the max, I have no idea) than it was to get to 99

The other thing to look at is that you kill him at level 8-9 in a solo game. You are farming him for exp and drops after that. Leveling in the actual game itself with mobs and questing will go smoothe after SK.

 

[Farmer]

Yeah, probably so. I think I read something the other day that they saw that some rare items were dropping too early for how powerful they are and would now be seen a bit later. I don't disagree with it, because it was easy enough without any yellows on my single play through. I think some people are wanting leet items a little too unnecessarily soon considering how early in the game the beta was based on. Act II will probably pick up a pretty noticeable amount in that regards, not to mention the absence of set items and the other various colored items for that matter in Act I. No big deal in Act I, just as any other game. All the cool shxt always comes after the opening area and a handful of hours of gaming.

Maybe they haven't finished the sets yet, but I think, at least in D2 Act 1 Normal, low level set items, e.g. Arctic Gear or similar, were more common than rares.

 

[slayer202]

The other thing to look at is that you kill him at level 8-9 in a solo game. You are farming him for exp and drops after that. Leveling in the actual game itself with mobs and questing will go smoothe after SK.

Yeah that's true, didn't think of that

 

[SMOGZINN]

I think it took just as long or longer in D2. It still look a decent amount of time if you were doing tristram runs in a full game. Imagine playing the game without the help of higher levels and without years of experience playing. Might actually take longer in D2 if you were starting over.

And I'd bet the farm that it is a lot easier to get to lvl 60(if that is the max, I have no idea) than it was to get to 99

Current Blizzard quote is that you will hit 60 sometime around the end of Hell difficulty. Then you will be max level for all of Inferno level. So, basically 3 runs through the game and you are max level. So, yes. I would say it is easier.

 

[slayer202]

Current Blizzard quote is that you will hit 60 sometime around the end of Hell difficulty. Then you will be max level for all of Inferno level. So, basically 3 runs through the game and you are max level. So, yes. I would say it is easier.

:'(

So who wants to start playing D2 again?

 

[Mopetar]

Speed runs make the game fun to me. Take it out or leave it active. Why should I have to hit a waypoint two floors before another in the game and run around everything to kill a boss when I can get there quicker by a waypoint closer already in the game?

I want to kill the boss ASAP and running around everything without killing anything makes it boring to me.

In Diablo 2 there were generally two floors of monsters to run through before being able to get to a boss, and in a lot of cases there were several monsters that needed to be cleared before you could fight the boss, either because it was required or because leaving them alive would probably get you killed.

The Diablo 3 system has apparently been changed so that you can only kill a boss if you're on the quest. If that weren't the case, it's unlikely that the closer way points would still be in the game. Also, we only have one data point that's not even an act boss, so I don't know how well we can draw conclusions from only the skeleton king.

I'm pretty sure that they did nerf the boss drops at some point. After killing skeleton king 12 times I got one yellow item total.

I don't think they nerfed boss drops so much as buffed the drops from random champion packs, which Blizzard has stated will probably be the best way to farm.

Also the boss system is similar to Diablo 2 where the first kill will give better drops. For example, the skeleton king is always guaranteed to drop at least one rare that first time that he's killed.

I think it took just as long or longer in D2. It still look a decent amount of time if you were doing tristram runs in a full game. Imagine playing the game without the help of higher levels and without years of experience playing. Might actually take longer in D2 if you were starting over.

Playing solo made leveling in Diablo 2 pretty torturous at points, but if you had a group is was pretty easy. Tristram and Tomb runs could easily get you to level 20 so you could do Ancients and start Baal runs. If you could get rushed, it was pretty trivial to quickly go through Nightmare and Hell.

Diablo 3 will probably take longer, if only because Blizzard probably hasn't left such obvious leveling exploits in the game. On the other hand, in some ways it will go quicker since it's no longer necessary to level multiple characters of the same type, unless you really want to.

And I'd bet the farm that it is a lot easier to get to lvl 60(if that is the max, I have no idea) than it was to get to 99

Getting to level 99 was an utter pain in the ass in Diablo 2 do to the way the leveling system worked. The more difference there was between your level and an enemies level, the less experience you would get. The highest level monsters in Diablo 2 were around level 85, so by the time you were at level 95, you were only getting some ridiculously low amount of experience for each kill (I think around 5%) such that it took hundreds to thousands of Baal runs just to gain a level and dying even once could wipe out several days worth of progress.

Level 60 will be something that everyone reaches if they play the game long enough. In Diablo 2, only the most hardcore crazies even bothered trying to get to level 99. Most everyone else generally quit in the low-90's when the experience gain starts to fall off heavily.

 

[slayer202]

I just hope it's not too easy to hit 60, but I'm sure it will be. Gotta figure there will be another 10 + 10 levels from expansions too

 

[RPD]

In D2, wasn't the experience required from level 98 to 99 > exp from 1 to 98?

 

[GlacierFreeze]

Also the boss system is similar to Diablo 2 where the first kill will give better drops. For example, the skeleton king is always guaranteed to drop at least one rare that first time that he's killed.

Actually I think I read where a Diablo 3 Forum mod refuted that. Said that each boss will have something good each time, even if it's only 1 thing along with bunch of blues.

Also, supposedly Skeleton King isn't even the boss of Act 1. If true, that could be why he doesn't drop a yellow every time (means the complaining about that was all for naught). It would make sense, considering my first paragraph about what the mod posted about boss loot table.

 

[Pantlegz]

Actually I think I read where a Diablo 3 Forum mod refuted that. Said that each boss will have something good each time, even if it's only 1 thing along with bunch of blues.

Also, supposedly Skeleton King isn't even the boss of Act 1. If true, that could be why he doesn't drop a yellow every time (means the complaining about that was all for naught). It would make sense, considering my first paragraph about what the mod posted about boss loot table.

The Skeleton King isn't the boss of Act 1, this has been known for a while. There was an interview, or article, a while back that said the beta was the first 1/3 of the first act. I think it may have been the "you will die video" they put out because people were crying about the game being too easy.

 

[Mopetar]

In D2, wasn't the experience required from level 98 to 99 > exp from 1 to 98?

In terms of raw numbers, it's not numerically much greater (maybe 10% or so more) than the difference between 97 and 98, but it's effectively that way due to the leveling system. You get something like 100 times fewer experience per Baal run at level 98 than you would at level 90. So really it probably takes longer to get from 98 to 99 than it does to get from 1 to 98. Also, dying at any time during level 98 would probably make you want to stab someone since the time loss would be massive.

Actually I think I read where a Diablo 3 Forum mod refuted that. Said that each boss will have something good each time, even if it's only 1 thing along with bunch of blues.

Also, supposedly Skeleton King isn't even the boss of Act 1. If true, that could be why he doesn't drop a yellow every time (means the complaining about that was all for naught). It would make sense, considering my first paragraph about what the mod posted about boss loot table.

That's another possibility. For example, bosses may always drop at least one rare. That might not necessarily be a bad thing either as I think that at some point the developers said that they wanted rare items to have the potential to be better than every unique. Always having a guaranteed rare will be good as it helps build up items while working towards better magic find gear, at which point champion pack farming may become more viable. They could take other approaches such as having certain bosses have boosted chances for dropping particular uniques that players might want.

 

[Stuka87]

I never went past level 90 in D2. There just wasn't enough of a gain going up that high to make it worth the time you needed to invest. I have several level 80-90 chars. Although the only one that I still have is my level 89 barb.

I actually played D2 for over an hour the other day just to get back into how it felt compared to three. The annoying part is I had to play it in windowed mode because apparently Radeon 79x0 drivers are not compatible with it.

 

[Farmer]

I never went past level 90 in D2. There just wasn't enough of a gain going up that high to make it worth the time you needed to invest. I have several level 80-90 chars. Although the only one that I still have is my level 89 barb.

I actually played D2 for over an hour the other day just to get back into how it felt compared to three. The annoying part is I had to play it in windowed mode because apparently Radeon 79x0 drivers are not compatible with it.

So, how did it compare?

I haven't played D2 in 3 years, so I 'd like to know.

 

[Stuka87]

So, how did it compare?

I haven't played D2 in 3 years, so I 'd like to know.

Well, the movement feels pretty cartoonish compared to D3. Its the first thing I noticed. Actually... no. Thats the second thing. The first is that an 800x600 screen looks TINY on a 24" monitor. I remember when it came out 800x600 was still a pretty common screen resolution. 1024x768 was considered more mid-range in 1999 with 1600x1200 being for the rich people with strong desk (To support the 60 lb monitor).

The next big thing was that in D1/D2, you have a standard no-powers attack (Sword, staff, Bow, etc). Then you have a single powered attack. In D3 you basically have two powered attacks (Once you get passed level 5 or so anyway). This gives it a very different feel. And I don't think its a bad thing, in many cases its a good thing. It really lets you accomplish combos and such, especially if playing as a Monk.

The new health system in D3 also sets it a apart in normal gameplay. In D1/2 you could heal as much as you want, so long as you have potions in your belt. In D3 there is a cooldown for healing. I can see this making things harder in higher difficulty settings. The Mana/Energy setup also mixes things up. In D2 you have to either drink a potion, or let an item refill your mana. In D3 it depends on the class. A Wizard recharges automatically, while A Monk or Barb have to generate it by attacking.

One thing I *REALLY* miss in D3 is the ability to have two loadouts at once. In D2 you can hit w and switch between two sets of weapons. For instance on my Barb I have a shield and a 1h axe for one loadout, and a big 2haxe for the other. Although my 1h axe does nearly as much damage as the 2h (The 1h is a FAMINE runeword axe, its bad ass). This basically means you are going to have to switch weapons in and out manually as you go into different areas, which is really a bummer.

I can't make many other comparisons until I have a chance to play on Nightmare and Hell difficulties in D3. Will also be interesting to try out Inferno.

 

[Mopetar]

One thing I *REALLY* miss in D3 is the ability to have two loadouts at once. In D2 you can hit w and switch between two sets of weapons.

I completely forgot about that. I guess it probably wasn't a big deal at low levels in the beta so I didn't think of it, but was generally handy for certain builds and almost every class could make use of a CTA swap to boost their skills/life.

I wonder why Blizzard decided to remove it. Anyone know if they ever brought it up?

 

[nyker96]

I had some reservations about D3 after playing on the beta weekend, but I think I will keep on preorder after reading through some more materials on different sites I believe certain decisions like auto-attrib distribution might work out just fine. It saves the problem of making multiple chars, just 1 per class is enough.

All the customization seems to come from the equipment and talent rune word you choose, which is adjustable. I think it will be fine this way. However, this would mean that if I end up w/ a lvl 60 for each char I will stop playing any level other than Inferno and all gears below inferno will be completely useless to me.

 

[Stuka87]

I had some reservations about D3 after playing on the beta weekend, but I think I will keep on preorder after reading through some more materials on different sites I believe certain decisions like auto-attrib distribution might work out just fine. It saves the problem of making multiple chars, just 1 per class is enough.

All the customization seems to come from the equipment and talent rune word you choose, which is adjustable. I think it will be fine this way. However, this would mean that if I end up w/ a lvl 60 for each char I will stop playing any level other than Inferno and all gears below inferno will be completely useless to me.

I am actually quite annoyed at a level cap of 60. I preferred the level cap of 99 as it meant you never had to worry about finishing a character, as it took so long to get to 99. Getting to 90 wasn't too hard though.

 

[Kalmah]

I am actually quite annoyed at a level cap of 60. I preferred the level cap of 99 as it meant you never had to worry about finishing a character, as it took so long to get to 99. Getting to 90 wasn't too hard though.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that that is where an expansion pack is going to take over.

If I recall correctly, d2 was to 99, then when they released the expansion they had to re-scale the game to fit in the expansion and still keep a level cap of 99. I'm sure they did this to save them the trouble.

 

[bguile]

I completely forgot about that. I guess it probably wasn't a big deal at low levels in the beta so I didn't think of it, but was generally handy for certain builds and almost every class could make use of a CTA swap to boost their skills/life.

I wonder why Blizzard decided to remove it. Anyone know if they ever brought it up?

It was too confusing for people in D2. They would accidently swap weapons and then be all like 'OH NOO! Where did my weapons go?', and then call tech support. For D3, it is to complex and an additionally an exploit.

 

[StrangerGuy]

The sheer amount of "DIABLO RUINED FOREVER IN D3" kneejerk reactions over all the internet is staggering. The complaints about lack of skills and stat points is especially retarded considering how archaic and cookie-cutter the distribution of those was in D2.

 

[epidemis]

L2P StrangerGuy. L2P...

 

[Mopetar]

It was too confusing for people in D2. They would accidently swap weapons and then be all like 'OH NOO! Where did my weapons go?', and then call tech support. For D3, it is to complex and an additionally an exploit.

Was it even that big of a deal? I've probably accidentally mashed the weapon switch key a few times and I took me a moment to figure out what I did and change back, but if it's a problem, just change the binds so that you really have to intentionally hit it in order to swap.

I don't know if it really has a place given the current game design, but I can think of a few instances where it might be useful. For example, you could build a Demon Hunter that has a more defensive item set-up (hypothetically let's say a shield and a one-handed weapon that improves shield block) that's used while operating in close proximity to a group of enemies, but can swap to a ranged weapon to use some of the skills that require ranged weapons, such as the one that backflips you away from nearby enemies.

Now that's probably not a build that everyone is going to want to use, but it does make for more interesting possibilities. It also would require more skill to play so it's not something that could be easily abused.

 

[Adrenaline]

The sheer amount of "DIABLO RUINED FOREVER IN D3" kneejerk reactions over all the internet is staggering. The complaints about lack of skills and stat points is especially retarded considering how archaic and cookie-cutter the distribution of those was in D2.

D3 as of now is a good game, but D2 was great and got even better as it went along. To me, D3 beta is on a lower level than D2 on release. I hope there are some improvements made to the game before or slightly after release.

IMO, Blizzard implemented the stat points like they did because it works well in WoW. What always works for one product does not always work for another. The skill trees were nice in D2 and the new skills leave me feeling like something is missing.

I did the annual pass in WoW, so D3 will be free but I also pre-ordered the CE. I am about 95% towards cancelling that as of now and just letting my D2 download sit on my account while I just continue to play WoW.

The map annoys me to no end. How hard is it to hit the tab key for dark, dim and off? But no, Blizzard got rid of it and put a mini map in, you guessed it, just like WoW.