**OFFICIAL** Diablo 3 Thread

[gothamhunter]

You mean the dick train that came into this thread after you decided to come in and start ranting?

Because before that, it was a thread of people discussing the drops they were getting, celebrating level milestones, asking/receiving advice, etc.

It's easy to be a hater on the internet. I obviously don't think the game is perfect. But what I can't stand is when people come into what was otherwise a nice place and just piss all over it.

Sure, whatever man. Feel free to ignore all the posts before my initial one. Please ignore the fact that all I've done is provide discussion regarding the game; that I've never once been one-sided or argumentative about anything besides my personal opinion about it being a success or not. Also ignore the fact that you yourself are at the infancy of the game and are still seeing the game through sparkles and glitter; that the majority of us who are finding personal issues with the game have been playing since launch.

I can come in here and provide my own damned opinion if I please; put me on ignore if you can't handle it.

 

[smackababy]

I have played since launch and put in quite a few hours into this game (and apparently am not one of the people bad at the AH). I don't really see many of the complaints about D3 as valid. It is extremely polished and has great core gameplay as a action RPG. It has skills that meld great together and has enough gear choices to diversify the builds. Sure, it isn't perfect, but the things that are wrong are nowhere near what people complain about.

"Barbs are OP!" "the AH is ruining my life!" "Orange items don't rain down upon me!" None of those are valid complaints. You are not forced to use the AH and other people using it has no effect on your gameplay at all. A class being "OP", and by a class I mean not your class, has no effect on your gameplay. The reality is the internet is full of whiny bitches. Look at the worst company in America poll; EA beat out a company that illegally invested and lost client's money AND illegally foreclosed on soldier's (who were deployed) houses. Oh, but a company that released some games you don't like is much worse...

 

[silverpig]

I have played since launch and put in quite a few hours into this game (and apparently am not one of the people bad at the AH). I don't really see many of the complaints about D3 as valid. It is extremely polished and has great core gameplay as a action RPG. It has skills that meld great together and has enough gear choices to diversify the builds. Sure, it isn't perfect, but the things that are wrong are nowhere near what people complain about.

"Barbs are OP!" "the AH is ruining my life!" "Orange items don't rain down upon me!" None of those are valid complaints. You are not forced to use the AH and other people using it has no effect on your gameplay at all. A class being "OP", and by a class I mean not your class, has no effect on your gameplay. The reality is the internet is full of whiny bitches. Look at the worst company in America poll; EA beat out a company that illegally invested and lost client's money AND illegally foreclosed on soldier's (who were deployed) houses. Oh, but a company that released some games you don't like is much worse...

There are valid complaints, but most people don't make them. For me, it's when they change the game dramatically to nerf or buff something that affects your character choice or game style.

I wanted to be a high damage, high mobility character, so DH was what I went with. I used a lot of knockback, and relied on trail of cinders to burn the crap out of bad guys. It was a good build and was arguably better than the melee classes once you got into the upper levels (very early on that is).

Then they nerfed the DH, upped the survivability on the melees, and added MP levels so the DH couldn't kill things quickly or keep them away. This fundamentally changed the DH strategy to become a melee class (with a crossbow!), without the armor benefits of the other classes, with dodge as a useless defense bonus from your primary, and so on.

The point is, there is no viable long range, fast, mobile, high damage class anymore, and that's what I chose to start with and decided to spend my time on.

Would you, as a barb, be happy if they made it so all monsters had 100% knockback, were faster than you, were ranged, and ran away? Then they made it so getting hit by knockback while in WW would stop your WW and actually knock you back. You'd have to play as a weapon throw barb as a ranged class would be the only way to go. That's basically what they did to DHs.

 

[redrider4life4]

I just logged on this morning to play my WD through inferno act 3, reminded me why I stopped playing in the first place. When I hit 60 I just bought random pieces of gear for 10-25k to get me through inferno, I can clear inferno MP1 pretty easily and from Act 1 to the completion of Act 3 I have not found one decent piece of gear for any character. I had to vendor all the items.

There is no point in playing the game, you are better off camping out the AH for good deals on gear people put up for cheap or don't realize what they have. This is not a game, it is just about who has enough time to press the refresh button on the AH until an idiot puts up a billion dollar item for cheap.

 

[Craig234]

I have played since launch and put in quite a few hours into this game (and apparently am not one of the people bad at the AH). I don't really see many of the complaints about D3 as valid. It is extremely polished and has great core gameplay as a action RPG. It has skills that meld great together and has enough gear choices to diversify the builds. Sure, it isn't perfect, but the things that are wrong are nowhere near what people complain about.

"Barbs are OP!" "the AH is ruining my life!" "Orange items don't rain down upon me!" None of those are valid complaints. You are not forced to use the AH and other people using it has no effect on your gameplay at all. A class being "OP", and by a class I mean not your class, has no effect on your gameplay. The reality is the internet is full of whiny bitches. Look at the worst company in America poll; EA beat out a company that illegally invested and lost client's money AND illegally foreclosed on soldier's (who were deployed) houses. Oh, but a company that released some games you don't like is much worse...

Not having played it, I disagree that the AH has no effect on your game.

Without the AH, the game's loot drops are optimized one way - around a player who plays the game and gets his own drops. Rares should be 'rare' but he should have a decent chance. When the AH is added, if the same drop rates are used, the AH would be *flooded* with items, and players would have far, far better gear available. So they have to nerf the drop rates because of the AH to get the loot 'balanced'.

That's what I predicted before the game came out, and that's what i see people who play it say happened.

 

[darkewaffle]

Not having played it, I disagree that the AH has no effect on your game.

Without the AH, the game's loot drops are optimized one way - around a player who plays the game and gets his own drops. Rares should be 'rare' but he should have a decent chance. When the AH is added, if the same drop rates are used, the AH would be *flooded* with items, and players would have far, far better gear available. So they have to nerf the drop rates because of the AH to get the loot 'balanced'.

That's what I predicted before the game came out, and that's what i see people who play it say happened.

The AH is flooded. There are literally millions of items on there and hundreds if not thousands of copies of every legendary/set item. Anything from 'beginner' to 'quite good' (and better if you look at the right times or get a little lucky) gear can be had for a song, not even.

 

[Craig234]

The AH is flooded. There are literally millions of items on there and hundreds if not thousands of copies of every legendary/set item. Anything from 'beginner' to 'quite good' (and better if you look at the right times or get a little lucky) gear can be had for a song, not even.

That supports my point, though - the AH has that effect, so they have to nerf the drops - and even with the drop nerfs it's still flooded.

They can't design the drops the same way when there is an AH and there isn't an AH without it being broken in one of them.

 

[darkewaffle]

That supports my point, though - the AH has that effect, so they have to nerf the drops - and even with the drop nerfs it's still flooded.

They can't design the drops the same way when there is an AH and there isn't an AH without it being broken in one of them.

So if the drop rates weren't nerfed, the AH would be flooded. And yet the AH being flooded supports drop rates being nerfed? I understand what you're trying to say, but that road runs both ways. You could just as legitimately say the surplus of items is a result of no modifications being made.

I don't think the drop rates are that great for the individual, but then again there's no precedent for them to be in this genre (or series) really either. And also again perception and competence plays a big role. People are wont to throw away items maybe worth "only" a few million because it may not sell instantly or generate a huge lump sum. They're only interested in hitting the jackpot, which is fine to chase, but if you've got lemons you may as well make lemonade in the meantime.

Further, there's a lot of inordinately narrowminded focus on "upgrades" rather than "useful items". If you find something good for a different class, that doesn't make it a bad drop. But it might cause people to dismiss it because they don't recognize it's value or don't want to have to convert/flip it. This same logic applies to "perfect" v "useful yet imperfect" items as well.

 

[smackababy]

There are valid complaints, but most people don't make them. For me, it's when they change the game dramatically to nerf or buff something that affects your character choice or game style.

I wanted to be a high damage, high mobility character, so DH was what I went with. I used a lot of knockback, and relied on trail of cinders to burn the crap out of bad guys. It was a good build and was arguably better than the melee classes once you got into the upper levels (very early on that is).

Then they nerfed the DH, upped the survivability on the melees, and added MP levels so the DH couldn't kill things quickly or keep them away. This fundamentally changed the DH strategy to become a melee class (with a crossbow!), without the armor benefits of the other classes, with dodge as a useless defense bonus from your primary, and so on.

The point is, there is no viable long range, fast, mobile, high damage class anymore, and that's what I chose to start with and decided to spend my time on.

Would you, as a barb, be happy if they made it so all monsters had 100% knockback, were faster than you, were ranged, and ran away? Then they made it so getting hit by knockback while in WW would stop your WW and actually knock you back. You'd have to play as a weapon throw barb as a ranged class would be the only way to go. That's basically what they did to DHs.

Archon Wizard is still a "high" mobility, ranged class. Sure, it isn't the best, but with the Archon buff that happened, they are viable in groups now. I played a DH at launch. They might have seemed good, but that was just because we didn't know how good the other classes really were. Finally, people got enough gear to not be a sword and board barb, and the class started to shine. My monk used to survive just on health globes and well placed heals / serenity in Inferno until they nerfed the armor gain. I would just DPS, and if I stopped, I would die.

That supports my point, though - the AH has that effect, so they have to nerf the drops - and even with the drop nerfs it's still flooded.

They can't design the drops the same way when there is an AH and there isn't an AH without it being broken in one of them.

They have buffed drop rates, despite the AH always being flooded. And all the hardcore D2 players who never want the AH seem to be delusional on the drop rates in D2. I put in so many hours into D2 and never one got a WF to drop. After duping took over people seem to think all these items were common, but they weren't. In D3, the drop rate is much, much better (I get on average 3 legendaries per run). The AH has had very little effect on the drop rate. The AH can have zero effect on your game. Just don't use it if it bothers you.

 

[sweenish]

Sure, whatever man. Feel free to ignore all the posts before my initial one. Please ignore the fact that all I've done is provide discussion regarding the game; that I've never once been one-sided or argumentative about anything besides my personal opinion about it being a success or not. Also ignore the fact that you yourself are at the infancy of the game and are still seeing the game through sparkles and glitter; that the majority of us who are finding personal issues with the game have been playing since launch.

I can come in here and provide my own damned opinion if I please; put me on ignore if you can't handle it.

Sparkles and glitter? No, my whole issue isn't that you dislike the game, or that my 60 hours in pale to your hundreds. It's the piss train you brought with you.

While I had been lurking the thread, it was good. People setting up matches, comparing drops, discussing builds, and discussing faults of the game. When I started in this thread asking questions, people were helpful.

Then you came along and opened the gates that let the other idiots just come in and drop unsubstantiated douche comments.

I find the game fun. Most of the regular posters in here are regulars because they must also find the game fun. None of us have Blizzard blinders on, it's easy to see how the AH hurt the SP loot game, and actual discussions reveal how certain balance changes have affected different builds.

The way you brought your negativity into the thread basically ruined that for the last few pages.

I'm not telling you to take your opinion elsewhere, I'm telling you to not be a dick.

 

[gothamhunter]

Again, ignore the fact that I didn't even start it.
Ignore that there has been disdain throughout the entire thread since it started.
Douche comments? Like what, people saying that they stopped playing?
Look at my comments; all of them have been DISCUSSION.

Obviously it's my fault for other people having opinions and expressing them as well.

If you don't have anything else to say to me minus continuously accusing me of destroying this thread, we have nothing else to discuss.

 

[Craig234]

They have buffed drop rates... AH has had very little effect on the drop rate.

Well, a couple things, what are you basing the second statement on, and it contradicts the first.

They don't seem to release solid info on 'this is what the drop rate would be without AH and what it is with AH', so informed commentary is what we have.

Bottom line, the AH creates a pressure for them to llower the drop rate so as to preserve the balance of the gear they want people to have - with a lot more available.

Note how pretty much every MMO with trading I've seen works - some items are tradeable, and some are not to protect that gear balance.

Without 'nodrop' gear, there's pressure to lower drops.

 

[smackababy]

Well, a couple things, what are you basing the second statement on, and it contradicts the first.

They don't seem to release solid info on 'this is what the drop rate would be without AH and what it is with AH', so informed commentary is what we have.

Bottom line, the AH creates a pressure for them to llower the drop rate so as to preserve the balance of the gear they want people to have - with a lot more available.

Note how pretty much every MMO with trading I've seen works - some items are tradeable, and some are not to protect that gear balance.

Without 'nodrop' gear, there's pressure to lower drops.

The original drop rates for the game were fairly low. This might have been to "counter" the AH, but realistically, they were still higher than D2, so that is doubtful. They have since increased the drop rate a number of times and altered the loot table as well as scaled the items with level of monster. The AH has never been empty of these items until the value of them exceeded the highest bid amount on the AH (2 billion gold). So, the idea that the AH lowers drop rates is completely false. There has not been a single level 60 legendary I have found at least 5 of. Now, compared to D2, that is extremely high (since I, and quite a few others I know, put in over a thousand hours and never found a single WF).

The reason there is BoP gear in MMOs is so there is no economy of farming gear. You cannot obtain the gear without doing the content. That is not the case in an ARPG like D3, because every mob in Inferno has the potential to drop every level 60 legendary. You don't have progression.

 

[Craig234]

The original drop rates for the game were fairly low. This might have been to "counter" the AH, but realistically, they were still higher than D2, so that is doubtful. They have since increased the drop rate a number of times and altered the loot table as well as scaled the items with level of monster. The AH has never been empty of these items until the value of them exceeded the highest bid amount on the AH (2 billion gold). So, the idea that the AH lowers drop rates is completely false. There has not been a single level 60 legendary I have found at least 5 of. Now, compared to D2, that is extremely high (since I, and quite a few others I know, put in over a thousand hours and never found a single WF).

The reason there is BoP gear in MMOs is so there is no economy of farming gear. You cannot obtain the gear without doing the content. That is not the case in an ARPG like D3, because every mob in Inferno has the potential to drop every level 60 legendary. You don't have progression.

Common sense: if they want players to have X chance of having an item, then to do that without an AH needs a much higher drop rate than having the item effectively available from millions of other people playing to get it and sell it as well. That is the 'farming economy'. So there is a pressure on devs to lower drop rates to maintain game balance.

You didn't answer what you are basing your claims about drop rates on, as you make factual statements about what they were set at in D2 and D3. Is it just anecdotal?

That's a different question than occassional dev communications that they're increasing the drop rates - seemingly in response to the player complaints over low rates.

You call it 'completely false' but don't provide evidence - you provide evedence of the opposite with the repeated increases because the rate IS lower.

The reason for nodrop gear is to have that higher drop rate not trading it allows IMO.

 

[silverpig]

Archon Wizard is still a "high" mobility, ranged class. Sure, it isn't the best, but with the Archon buff that happened, they are viable in groups now. I played a DH at launch. They might have seemed good, but that was just because we didn't know how good the other classes really were. Finally, people got enough gear to not be a sword and board barb, and the class started to shine. My monk used to survive just on health globes and well placed heals / serenity in Inferno until they nerfed the armor gain. I would just DPS, and if I stopped, I would die.

But that doesn't help someone who has spent 100% of their game time on a plvl 88 DH. DH used to be good, then they nerfed it and powered up the monsters with extra MP levels.

My old DH build was to use rapid fire - web shot to unload on a target. The mob would get close, I'd launch rain of vengeance - stampede to knock them back, fire off some hungering arrows to rebuild hatred, and then open up with rapid fire again. Once the mob got close the second time, I'd drop a caltrops, hit fan of knives, and then vault away, burning the mob. I'd then repeat as necessary.

With a combination of slowing skills, vaulting, and knockback, I fought as a ranged class and almost never had enemies get near me.

That just doesn't fly now, even as a 290k dps DH. Not even my 525k dps DH friend can pull it off unless we want to play MP1, and there's no way a 300k dps character should be relegated to MP1.

 

[silverpig]

Also, perhaps a way of keeping itemization interesting is to gradually allow "item inflation".

So instead of 1000 dps manticores being average with 1400 being top tier, have those numbers creep up slowly over time.

And maybe allow players to use a combination of time + gold to upgrade stats, sort of like in EVE. You can train your blacksmith in tempering, but to get level 1 it takes 1 week and 5M gold. To get level 2 it takes 3 weeks and 25M gold etc. Each level increase allows you to add say 50 dps to your weapon and then it becomes account bound or something.

 

[Craig234]

Also, perhaps a way of keeping itemization interesting is to gradually allow "item inflation".

So instead of 1000 dps manticores being average with 1400 being top tier, have those numbers creep up slowly over time.

And maybe allow players to use a combination of time + gold to upgrade stats, sort of like in EVE. You can train your blacksmith in tempering, but to get level 1 it takes 1 week and 5M gold. To get level 2 it takes 3 weeks and 25M gold etc. Each level increase allows you to add say 50 dps to your weapon and then it becomes account bound or something.

Yes, every MMO I know of with item stats has what's called 'mudflation' (mud's being a root of MMO's) where there's a sort of inflation of ever-increasing stats.

This is primarily to just keep the carrot for players - if they just get 'the best gear' they're likely to keep replaying and not having better gear to get.

They also do that with wholesale resets of 'best gear' as expansions raise char level maxes.

 

[redrider4life4]

You guys are missing the main problem with D3, the auction house is flooded because of item duping of top gear. People have posted on the D3 main forums tracking all the duped items with the same exact stats.

The chances of one item rolling the same exact stats was so ridiculously high you might see it once a year, but at any one time there are 10 items up on the AH with the same stats (clearly duped items). This is and always has been the problem with the Diablo series. Until this is fixed the game is done.

 

[Schfifty Five]

You guys are missing the main problem with D3, the auction house is flooded because of item duping of top gear. People have posted on the D3 main forums tracking all the duped items with the same exact stats.

The chances of one item rolling the same exact stats was so ridiculously high you might see it once a year, but at any one time there are 10 items up on the AH with the same stats (clearly duped items). This is and always has been the problem with the Diablo series. Until this is fixed the game is done.

You mean "low" right? Cause if the chances were high, then logically, you'd see many items with the same exact stats.

 

[smackababy]

You guys are missing the main problem with D3, the auction house is flooded because of item duping of top gear. People have posted on the D3 main forums tracking all the duped items with the same exact stats.

The chances of one item rolling the same exact stats was so ridiculously high you might see it once a year, but at any one time there are 10 items up on the AH with the same stats (clearly duped items). This is and always has been the problem with the Diablo series. Until this is fixed the game is done.

There are very few duped items. Sure, a few of the more high end pieces are duped, but smaller items don't get duped. And even then, duping a 1200 dps 90+ CHD Echo with a socket isn't going to "ruin the game" because it is going to sell for a few billion anyway. It will never make it on the AH.

 

[Craig234]

I don't know why Blizzard can't fix the dup issue.

 

[pandemonium]

Of my 400+ hours staring at auctions and playing the market mildly, I can honestly say I haven't seen this huge duping issue that people keep mentioning. I'm not saying it doesn't exist; I just think it's blown out of proportion.

 

[smackababy]

Of my 400+ hours staring at auctions and playing the market mildly, I can honestly say I haven't seen this huge duping issue that people keep mentioning. I'm not saying it doesn't exist; I just think it's blown out of proportion.

It is way blown out of proportion. There are very few items actually duped, and most of them are probably from the rollback exploit. It is nowhere near D2 levels.

I don't know why Blizzard can't fix the dup issue.

Because in order to "fix" the dupe issue, they have to remove items that players purchased. The majority of the duped items were bought by innocent players. Blizzard has already stated they won't punish players that were not involved. All they can do is ban players who have participated and remove whatever they have from the economy.

 

[Craig234]

Because in order to "fix" the dupe issue, they have to remove items that players purchased. The majority of the duped items were bought by innocent players. Blizzard has already stated they won't punish players that were not involved. All they can do is ban players who have participated and remove whatever they have from the economy.

I mean why can't they fix the bugs that allow duping to happen.

 

[pcmatt1024]

there's an interesting read on the legacy of (in)famous D3 dupes:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9423113354

my biggest problem with the economy is the rampant nature of gold botting that has been present since pretty much day 1. If the gold you found while playing was actually worth something, there would be a more feasible, and steady (i.e. less RNG), upgrade path for many players.

I hit the 100 million gold picked up achievement a little while back, but even if I had every last "cent" of it available, i couldn't buy an upgrade at this point.