**OFFICIAL** Diablo 3 Thread

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badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
Don't worry, we'll know how successful Diablo 3 was when Diablo 3 expansion comes out, lol.

Diablo 3 was riding on the coattails of Diablo 2/LoD arguably the greatest isometric ARPG ever.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
Are you comparing the 12m vs the 4.7m? If so, that's not 6* less for one. And secondly, you do realize that WOW maintained over 10 million subscriptions in 2012, right? WOW has sold many, many more copies than D3, which I understand and agree that it isn't a fair comparison (8 year old game vs 2), but the concurrent players is the part I want to emphasize; after a year the concurrent users for D3 has dropped to around 1m, less than 10% of their initial player base. WOW only recently dropped to 8.3m after 8 years.

If your definition of success is only sales numbers, then yes; Diablo 3 is very successful. My definition is different and takes into account the player-base over time, and I don't find it to be successful.

FYI - I love Diablo 3; it's a great, fun game. I just don't think it's successful.

Now you're just making up numbers. Nowhere have you mentioned a game with 4.7M in sales. The games you mentioned, Brink and SWTOR, both had 2M attached to them.

Take another look at that best selling list. How many of them still have 1M concurrent daily players? How many games released last year have that? It's a small number. From a raw numbers perspective, 1M daily players is still very much a success, regardless of the size of the potential base.

Your FYI is hard to believe, as if it were any kind of true, that would be the kind of disclosure you drop at the beginning of an argument. Now you're just trying to legitimize yourself not with facts, but "look guys, I like the game, so if I'm saying this, it must be true."

Like I said very near the beginning of this "debate," I don't go dumping on what you like, so why do you insist on constantly trying to piss in peoples' cereal? Do you have nothing better to do?
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Ater a year the concurrent users for D3 has dropped to around 1m, less than 10% of their initial player base. WOW only recently dropped to 8.3m after 8 years.

You're comparing two completely different types of games and online environments. WoW is built byte by byte to keep people in game, engaged in a persistent world, chasing a carrot, and subscribed. D3 is a much more lightweight experience; you can stop playing for months at a time, come back, and jump right in same as ever. I think it's designed more to give players something to 'always come back to'; the gameplay/loot style doesn't support "play this game consistently forever and ever" in any Diablo clone/game imo.
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,466
6
81
Now you're just making up numbers. Nowhere have you mentioned a game with 4.7M in sales. The games you mentioned, Brink and SWTOR, both had 2M attached to them.

Take another look at that best selling list. How many of them still have 1M concurrent daily players? How many games released last year have that? It's a small number. From a raw numbers perspective, 1M daily players is still very much a success, regardless of the size of the potential base.

Your FYI is hard to believe, as if it were any kind of true, that would be the kind of disclosure you drop at the beginning of an argument. Now you're just trying to legitimize yourself not with facts, but "look guys, I like the game, so if I'm saying this, it must be true."

Like I said very near the beginning of this "debate," I don't go dumping on what you like, so why do you insist on constantly trying to piss in peoples' cereal? Do you have nothing better to do?

I mentioned WOW in my last portion of my argument, which you replied to, so I figured you were basing your response on those numbers, not SWTOR or Brink.

Looking at the top list (13 listed, more if you click on the full list link), 6 are multiplayer, so those would factor in my "users over time" argument.

Minecraft doesn't display concurrent user information, so I can't factor it in.

Only one other of those is even relevant anymore, SC2, which also doesn't show concurrent user information, just match information, so there isn't really anything I can provide there either.

I did mention near the beginning of the whole thing that I said it's not a bad game. But sure, make assumptions of what I think about the game.

I had nowhere else to piss, so it went in your cereal.

*edit*
I am curious as to your thoughts on a game like LoL, where there is no sales information since it's free (minus cash shop stuff), but regularly peaks at over 5m concurrent players?
 
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gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,466
6
81
You're comparing two completely different types of games and online environments. WoW is built byte by byte to keep people in game, engaged in a persistent world, chasing a carrot, and subscribed. D3 is a much more lightweight experience; you can stop playing for months at a time, come back, and jump right in same as ever. I think it's designed more to give players something to 'always come back to'; the gameplay/loot style doesn't support "play this game consistently forever and ever" in any Diablo clone/game imo.

I agree and disagree; it still has the treadmill, and it's in Blizzard's best interest to keep them engaged in playing the game so they can continue to profit from the RMAH, but I do agree that it's not on the same level as a game such as WOW.
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,466
6
81
I feel the same way. The only way I would even contemplate playing this game again is if my friend wanted to play HC and no AH. I literally have more fun doing house work than I do playing softcore.

Hardcore is the only way I play anymore; I like the way it makes you stop and think before you run into a pack of mobs/champ/boss.

I could also see my self picking it up for the PS4; it's always seemed like a nice "sit back and play with controller" game to me.
 
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silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
Haven't played much lately... 30 minutes here and there. I made it to paragon 88 and don't have it in me right now to get my DH all the way to 100 with the way the game is.

I want to try a monk, but want my DH at 100 before I pick up another character.

I'm really hoping some new buffs for the DH come out soon, and some new itemization / skills too.
 

nataku00

Senior member
Dec 5, 2004
216
0
76
Haven't played much lately... 30 minutes here and there. I made it to paragon 88 and don't have it in me right now to get my DH all the way to 100 with the way the game is.

I want to try a monk, but want my DH at 100 before I pick up another character.

I'm really hoping some new buffs for the DH come out soon, and some new itemization / skills too.

I've been logging on everyday and have reached paragon 98, but I have been finding less motivation in finishing more than one typical act 1 farm run per day the past week or so. Was thinking I'll get to paragon 100 and then go play the new Borderlands 2 dlc for a change of pace.
 

Alex C

Senior member
Jul 7, 2008
357
0
76
I've finally given up on this game. I made it to Paragon 20-something with my monk and somewhere in the teens with my demon hunter, but it's just too boring to go any further. I'm not interested in the auction house, and selling things seems to be the main motivation most people have for playing.

I started Path of Exile, and it took me a little bit to get into it but now I'm having way more fun than I ever did in D3. I already have multiple unique characters of in the same class, and a handful of legendary items (that I found myself) that actually change how I play the game. I recommend trying it if you're getting burnt out on Diablo.
 

pandemonium

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
1,777
76
91
PoE is pretty good. Much more diverse system than D3, but the playstyle isn't quite as smooth and I think that's where it loses its luster. Of course, that doesn't matter to some people, but to most it will.

It's a fun game. Since hitting PL100 I don't play too much since my focus (gaming or otherwise) is elsewhere, but I still pop on from time-to-time to do runs with friends.
 

rstove02

Senior member
Apr 19, 2004
508
0
71
Shelved this game over a year ago in hopes to revisit after giving Blizzard a good chance to either fix the gameplay via patches or expansions. Gave up waiting and uninstalled. Never thought I would see the day that Blizzard would be on my "purchase with extreme caution" list.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Stopped playing months ago... Only reason I kept playing was for money -- sad. Then everything stopped selling for me and I lost access to the phone to reactivate my real-money AH account.
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,466
6
81
this game is dead, needs expansion badly...nothing is selling

Stopped playing months ago... Only reason I kept playing was for money -- sad. Then everything stopped selling for me and I lost access to the phone to reactivate my real-money AH account.

I've finally given up on this game. I made it to Paragon 20-something with my monk and somewhere in the teens with my demon hunter, but it's just too boring to go any further. I'm not interested in the auction house, and selling things seems to be the main motivation most people have for playing.

And THIS is what's wrong with the game; people are starting to stop playing because they can't make MONEY. Doesn't even matter if it's fun or not.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
And THIS is what's wrong with the game; people are starting to stop playing because they can't make MONEY. Doesn't even matter if it's fun or not.

I played as little as a month ago and went from about 500M and a 100k DPS barb to 2B+ and a 200k DPS barb and 200k DPS monk in just a matter of weeks after having not played in about a year. Don't tell me things don't sell or the market isn't moving just because you aren't any good at doing so.

Diablo and all it's clones are not games worth playing for extended periods of time imo. At least not without breaks in between. They just don't have deep enough gameplay; which is no sleight to the games but it's just inherent to the genre. When you make the "fulfilling" part of the game the item the drops rather than the process of obtaining it, it's inevitable.
 
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gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,466
6
81
I played as little as a month ago and went from about 500M and a 100k DPS barb to 2B+ and a 200k DPS barb and 200k DPS monk in just a matter of weeks after having not played in about a year. Don't tell me things don't sell or the market isn't moving just because you aren't any good at doing so.

Diablo and all it's clones are not games worth playing for extended periods of time imo. At least not without breaks in between. They just don't have deep enough gameplay; which is no sleight to the games but it's just inherent to the genre. When you make the "fulfilling" part of the game the item the drops rather than the process of obtaining it, it's inevitable.

I don't play the market at all, so if that point was directed at me it falls on deaf ears. I'm talking about the general player-base; I see it a lot in the forums on Blizzard and it's apparent here too.

There would have been more longevity to the game without that AH I still think; at least even Blizzard admitted to being in the wrong on it.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
Why are you still in this thread? There's plenty of forum for you without having to drop into a thread intended for people PLAYING the game.

Take your piss somewhere else, please. Or just, you know, stop being a dick.
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,466
6
81
Why are you still in this thread? There's plenty of forum for you without having to drop into a thread intended for people PLAYING the game.

Take your piss somewhere else, please. Or just, you know, stop being a dick.

I still play the game. Maybe you should read all the posts after I stopped posting on the 16th and see that it's not just "my opinion".
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
I don't play the market at all, so if that point was directed at me it falls on deaf ears. I'm talking about the general player-base; I see it a lot in the forums on Blizzard and it's apparent here too.

There would have been more longevity to the game without that AH I still think; at least even Blizzard admitted to being in the wrong on it.

I feel quite confident in saying the general video game player base (especially people who actually post on Blizzard forums) are by and large [economically] incompetent lol. All my friends are the same way; only one other guy I play with is able to make money off the AH. And it's not because it's hard or because the AH "isn't working" or because the economy has "died" but rather because he and I put in some marginal amount of effort; it's as simple as trial and error even. Just because the general populace assumes they're using it correctly though but not being successful doesn't mean something is wrong.

It's like asking them to drive a manual car and then the user complaining that the car is broken when it keeps stalling.

If by longevity you mean "players would be doing all the same activities except their numbers would be lower" and therefore still have a relatively 'longer' gear chase ahead of them, then yes. To me, all "no AH" would do would be to take everyone's imaginary 1-100 gear score and cut it in half. But the fact that players care more about what color their item text is than gameplay/content (why do people want an expansion? more items.) and developers are willing to simply meet that requirement rather than really expand or build upon it is just a systemic problem of the genre itself. Players just want shiny things and high numbers, and gamemakers can get away with skimping on 'real' content because of it.

I think the AH actually has expanded the longevity of D3 in a sense because it makes it easier to obtain the gear necessary for certain builds, thus making them viable. Some WD builds need X piece Zunimassa, some DH builds need X piece Nats, and lots of builds for each class rely heavily on critting often to be effective; all of which would be much more difficult to assemble without the AH than with it.
 
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gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,466
6
81
I feel quite confident in saying the general video game player base (especially people who actually post on Blizzard forums) are by and large [economically] incompetent lol. All my friends are the same way; only one other guy I play with is able to make money off the AH. And it's not because it's hard or because the AH "isn't working" or because the economy has "died" but rather because he and I put in some marginal amount of effort; it's as simple as trial and error even. Just because the general populace assumes they're using it correctly though but not being successful doesn't mean something is wrong.

It's like asking them to drive a manual car and then the user complaining that the car is broken when it keeps stalling.

If by longevity you mean "players would be doing all the same activities except their numbers would be lower" and therefore still have a relatively 'longer' gear chase ahead of them, then yes. To me, all "no AH" would do would be to take everyone's imaginary 1-100 gear score and cut it in half. But the fact that players care more about what color their item text is than gameplay/content (why do people want an expansion? more items.) and developers are willing to simply meet that requirement rather than really expand or build upon it is just a systemic problem of the genre itself. Players just want gear, and gamemakers can get away with skimping on 'real' content because of it.

I think the AH actually has expanded the longevity of D3 in a sense because it makes it easier to obtain the gear necessary for certain builds, thus making them viable. Some WD builds need X piece Zunimassa, some DH builds need X piece Nats, and lots of builds for each class rely heavily on critting often to be effective; all of which would be much more difficult to assemble without the AH than with it.

I think your first point is a great one; not very many do know how to play the AH and market way too high or expect items to be very low. I also don't think that there's anything inherently WRONG with the AH; it's serving its purpose quite well, and I do think it's helped the game to a degree, like you mentioned. My biggest thing is that I think too many see D3 as a potential to "make money" rather than "a game" and when they aren't making money, they stop playing.

On your second point, again I agree that the players want more items rather than "real content", but I also think that in games such as these, the items are the real content; this I think is what divides people so much on the AH/RMAH issue; it bypasses the meat of the game to earn that content; some compare it to F2P games offering raid quality gear from cash shops.

On your third point; I have a hard time agreeing or disagreeing. I definitely agree that certain equipment pieces are requirements for certain builds, and the AH helps achieve these builds. On the other hand, not having all those pieces so readily available would have kept people actually playing longer, I think, in order to earn those items rather than shortcutting to the AH. The game would adapt to people not having such amazing builds; skills, monsters, etc would have adapted different than they have now, and people would still have "amazing builds", just not as amazing as they are now (but would they have known the difference?)

I've mentioned before that I mainly play on Hardcore nowadays and I think it's a great way to keep playing the game; I find the AH to be at the right level of availability for players without people attempting to make real money off of it (gold to $, or RMAH in general), and overall being more careful has made me appreciate a lot of unused skills/builds throughout the game.
 
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darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Yeah, I think a large part of the "problem" with the AH is just perception. By taking down the curtain between "real money" and "video game money", I think it became very difficult for people to separate the two because now it's something that anyone can convert legitimately and it's no longer 'taboo'. Thing is, if you think about playing D3 strictly in terms of dollars and cents, it's essentially an extremely poorly paying job and pretty unrewarding. Monetizing something you like to do is touchy because it can quickly become something you don't like to do when you now feel obligated to do it for the money. I think it's a fair point that in that sense, the RMAH may have been damaging to the game. Though on the other hand, gold selling was and is so rampant it may have been too much for them to ignore anyway.
 

gothamhunter

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2010
4,466
6
81
Yeah, I think a large part of the "problem" with the AH is just perception. By taking down the curtain between "real money" and "video game money", I think it became very difficult for people to separate the two because now it's something that anyone can convert legitimately and it's no longer 'taboo'. Thing is, if you think about playing D3 strictly in terms of dollars and cents, it's essentially an extremely poorly paying job and pretty unrewarding. Monetizing something you like to do is touchy because it can quickly become something you don't like to do when you now feel obligated to do it for the money. I think it's a fair point that in that sense, the RMAH may have been damaging to the game. Though on the other hand, gold selling was and is so rampant it may have been too much for them to ignore anyway.

100% agree on the entirety of this.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
I still play the game. Maybe you should read all the posts after I stopped posting on the 16th and see that it's not just "my opinion".

You mean the dick train that came into this thread after you decided to come in and start ranting?

Because before that, it was a thread of people discussing the drops they were getting, celebrating level milestones, asking/receiving advice, etc.

It's easy to be a hater on the internet. I obviously don't think the game is perfect. But what I can't stand is when people come into what was otherwise a nice place and just piss all over it.
 
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