**Official eMachines M68xx Thread**

[Paul S]

at 3:17 AM on 2/7/05 eMachines E-mail tech support sent me the following message:


To my knowledge, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is not BIOS dependent. In this regard, updated BIOS does not guarantee that any issues arising after the Windows XP Service Pack 2 installation will be corrected.

In most cases, the only reason to get a BIOS upgrade is to add support for a new form of hardware you are adding to your system that is not supported by your current BIOS. Some examples would be a CPU or a larger hard drive. Most Operating Systems do not use the BIOS once the Operating System is up and running. You should not upgrade the BIOS in an attempt to fix a software bug unless the motherboard manufacturer has identified the BIOS as the cause of the problem.

There are currently no recommended BIOS changes or updates listed for your computer. Changing the default settings in BIOS could cause the computer to become unbootable and it is not recommended. eMachines does not have or support any changes for the BIOS.

To allow eMachines to ensure customer satisfaction, BIOS updates are not posted on the website until they have been through rigorous testing to ensure the update is compatible and will not cause any instabilities with the system. The original BIOS is stable and eMachines can guarantee that it will work on the system it is sent with. Once an update has been through the testing to ensure it is needed, compatible and stable, the update will be posted on the website. Until an update is needed and available, eMachines will continue to support the original BIOS.

Please be advised that if you choose to update your BIOS with an update not posted on the eMachines website, the original BIOS flash for your system will not be available from eMachines.


Furthermore, please be guided that eMachines has not tested Windows XP Service Pack 2 and cannot guarantee its compatibility with the pre-installed Windows XP Operating System and all the other components in your computer. You have the option of installing Windows XP Service Pack 2 in your computer, however, the best place to get help with Microsoft updates is from Microsoft directly.

eMachines technical support is here to help troubleshoot hardware technical issues and to determine if a system is faulty. Technical support can help to determine if the original software is faulty or corrupted. We can also arrange warranty repair service if required. However, we do not have the information available to work with software compatibility issues.

If you prefer, you may consider contacting Answers by Gateway for a fee-based type of support over the phone. They offer support for a wide range of issues you may have. They have an extremely skilled staff on hand to answer your most demanding questions.

You may consider contacting Answers by Gateway for a fee-based type of support over the phone.


Guess they are giving me the usual "pass the buck" answer. Guess I won't worry about installing Service Pack 2.

Thanks for your input

 

[lchyi]

How much do you think I could sell my M6810 for? I bought it at BB. Used it for about 10 hours total, and had it sit around for about five months. I feel so stupid for dumping this much money in a lappy and not using it. I also have a three year warranty out of it so total I spent like 1500 for it. You think people would buy it for 1100?

 

[gtd2000]

Originally posted by: gweilo8888

[This is an utterly ludicrous viewpoint. Emachines released the BIOS update, and they notified users of laptops other than the 6805 of the update - hence they have absolutely no choice but to support the update officially if your laptop is still under warranty.

I really don't see it that way from the information supplied by Paul S.

He said that since the BIOS upgrade is listed for the 6805, that is the only machine that it is for. It has not been tested and approved on the 6807. He said that even though the mother board is the same on the two models, he could not advise that I install the BIOS upgrade.

They do not have "absolutely no choice" if they have a disclaimer advising that it DOES NOT support your model (i.e. only for the m6805).

The fact that the laptops are essentially identical is a moot point.

If Emachines have advised that the upgrade is suitable for models other than the m6805 separately, then yes, they will be required to support the update "officially".

I'm only commenting on information given by Paul S so take it easy Ghost-Man (or are you using the "foreign devil" translation?).

 

[gweilo8888]

Originally posted by: gtd2000

They do not have "absolutely no choice" if they have a disclaimer advising that it DOES NOT support your model (i.e. only for the m6805).

The fact that the laptops are essentially identical is a moot point.

If Emachines have advised that the upgrade is suitable for models other than the m6805 separately, then yes, they will be required to support the update "officially".

I'm only commenting on information given by Paul S so take it easy Ghost-Man (or are you using the "foreign devil" translation?).

The point you're missing is that eMachines advised everybody that the update was for them through their update software, regardless of whether they had a 6805 or not. The moment they did that, they had officially stated that the BIOS update is for the entire 680X series. If you're still under warranty and your machine dies in the update, you need only tell eMachines that their software advised you to install the BIOS update; they're responsible for it because they provided it to you.

As for their disclaimer, no disclaimer was given to him until *after* he phoned eMachines. You cannot call that a disclaimer because it wasn't provided with (or before) the update software. It was a classic case of CYA (cover your ass) by a tech support guppy who simply doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Paul S]

Originally posted by: ncclaw
check out the gateway/emachines section at notebookforums.com

there is alot of information there

Thanks for the suggestion about this forum. I had not seen this one. I spent an hour reading through it and found many interesting posts

 

[gtd2000]

Originally posted by: gweilo8888

The point you're missing is that eMachines advised everybody that the update was for them through their update software, regardless of whether they had a 6805 or not. The moment they did that, they had officially stated that the BIOS update is for the entire 680X series. If you're still under warranty and your machine dies in the update, you need only tell eMachines that their software advised you to install the BIOS update; they're responsible for it because they provided it to you.

As for their disclaimer, no disclaimer was given to him until *after* he phoned eMachines. You cannot call that a disclaimer because it wasn't provided with (or before) the update software. It was a classic case of CYA (cover your ass) by a tech support guppy who simply doesn't know what he's talking about.

"The point you're missing is that" I'm only referring to how Paul S described the events with the Tech Support "guppy". I have not been privy to the email that was sent out by Emachines in which, "eMachines advised everybody that the update was for them through their update software, regardless of whether they had a 6805 or not."

Note:
ACM = Ar$e Covering Measure (aka CYA)

Now it sounds like you are telling me that I am missing the point by agreeing with what I said in the first place and adding the information that eMachines previously released an email to advise of the updated BIOS for all other models.

You still did not tell me if you are a "Foreign Devil" or "Ghost Man" yet?

 

[gweilo8888]

All the information you needed to form a correct assessment was in his original post:

"got the Big Fix message a couple weeks ago that a BIOS upgrade was available for "my" M6805. I was almost going to download the update, but decided that I should call tech-support just to make sure that this can be used for the 6807. I have always understood that they were twins. I also wouldn't have thought that this "fixlet" message would have been delivered to me unless it was for my computer. "

Had he installed the BIOS update at that point without going out of his way to contact eMachines and be fed the CYA routine, eMachines would have had no choice but to fix his machine if there had been a problem (and he was still under warranty). The fact that they delivered the Big Fix message to him (which incidentally is not an email, it is a support agent running on standard eMachines installations to tell you what updates are released by eMachines for your computer) means that in essence eMachines was telling him to install it. The fact that it referred to an M6805 is beside the point; the model number is only to be found in small writing on the bottom of the laptop, and the average user would not be aware of the model number of their laptop a week after they purchased it, let alone a year.

If eMachines didn't want customers to install the update, then why would they have notified them it was available?

There are numerous "literal" translations of 'gweilo' but they all boil down to much the same thing. I use it in the same sense that any expat in Hong Kong would refer to themselves as a 'gweilo'.

 

[gtd2000]

Well I still fail to see where I would know it was applicable to all the variants other than the m6805?



As an ex-resident of Tuen Mun I'm well familiar with the literal and "traditional" meanings.

Your answer was very clever

 

[Paul S]

Doubletalk from eMachines!!!! I gather this is no surprise to most of you.

This is what is in the original "Fixlet"

UPDATE: Required Upgrade of M6805 Computer System BIOS for SP2 Usability

eMachines Customer Care has released an updated version of your computer's Basic Input/Output System (BIOS). By updating your BIOS, you will ensure that your computer has the proper startup instructions and manages its hardware correctly when Microsoft® Windows® XP Service Pack 2 (SP 2) is installed. This is a required upgrade to keep your system current and performing optimally with Service Pack 2.

That message said the BIOS update was required for SP2 usability, but the E-mail that tech support sent me told me that:

To my knowledge, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is not BIOS dependent. In this regard, updated BIOS does not guarantee that any issues arising after the Windows XP Service Pack 2 installation will be corrected.

What a bunch of foolishness! Up to this point I was so impressed with eMachines tech-support! Now I see why many of you feel that they are a bunch of idiots!

 

[gtd2000]

I must admit I have been very impressed with eMachines Customer Service - not had much call for tech support issues though

 

[imported_Woody]

I just happenned to find this update today while browsing emachines site for someone else and downloaded it. I don't think I'll bother to install it since I installed the 00F07P00.ROM BIOS (for the M6811) last summer and have been running SP2 no problems ever since.

The general rule for BIOS updates is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I highly recommend SP2 so if you haven't installed a BIOS update previously this would be a good thing to do. As for myself, I'm keeping the "official" BIOS handy just in case I need to ever send my system in for work or sell it.

I don't think I've hear of anyone ever having problems with unsupported BIOS updates on any of these machines but there is always a slight risk involved when flashing anything. It's a good guess that this new official update would work fine in the entire line of these laptops.

**************************************

On a side note. A couple pages back someone posted a link to prove that a Mobile Pentium could outperform an Athlon64 3500 in gaming. Since not even the fastest desktop Pentium can do that it seems extremely unlikely. The mobile Athlons should perform identical to their desktop counterparts in most respects when running on similar motherboards with similar RAM. Just compare the specs of the CPU rather than the Athlon model numbers for fair comparisons.

**************************************

.

 

[gweilo8888]

Originally posted by: gtd2000
Well I still fail to see where I would know it was applicable to all the variants other than the m6805?



As an ex-resident of Tuen Mun I'm well familiar with the literal and "traditional" meanings.

Your answer was very clever

If you owned another laptop in the series, received that message from Big Fix, and didn't know your model number, would you not assume it applied to you?

Tuen Mun eh? I grew up on Waterloo Road, as well as Pik Uk and Ta Ku Ling San Tsuen (Clearwater Bay). Also lived in Tsim Sha Tsui (Mody Road), Ma On Shan (Kei Ling Ha San Wai), Happy Valley and Sai Wan Ho at various points...

So are you a gweilo, or local?

How was my answer clever btw?

 

[imanewguy]

pardon the complete noobness, but I'm quite computer illiterate and am having a few issues with this SP2/Bios problem. Reading through much of the posts, I've downloaded the bios update for the Emachines 6805 model, (but I have a 6810) from their site, but have yet to use it.

My question is do I need to uninstall SP2 (I'm told this would be a tedious process) before I update my bios? or can I just go with the update and things should work themselves out afterwards? Am I able to reinstall SP2 after I update without having to uninstall it before I update? (That sounds confusing as I reread that sentence).

Any help would be appreciated, cause this damn SP2 problem is killing my computer...

 

[boblon]

Just loaded XP64 on a stock 6809 (except for having 1.25MB mem). Installed fine, sound and wireless works fine. Am downloading the beta video drivers now (s...l....o....w...).

Anyhow, I have one unrecognized device in device manager (PCI Simple Communications Controller). Anybody know what that is? Firewire maybe?

My real question is, should we start listing what 32 bit apps work well? Or does the WoW emulator work well enough that we can list what does NOT work so well?

So far I've only loade the OS and the Avast antivirus product.

BobL.

 

[gtd2000]

Originally posted by: gweilo8888

If you owned another laptop in the series, received that message from Big Fix, and didn't know your model number, would you not assume it applied to you?

Tuen Mun eh? I grew up on Waterloo Road, as well as Pik Uk and Ta Ku Ling San Tsuen (Clearwater Bay). Also lived in Tsim Sha Tsui (Mody Road), Ma On Shan (Kei Ling Ha San Wai), Happy Valley and Sai Wan Ho at various points...

So are you a gweilo, or local?

How was my answer clever btw?

I have the m6810 but I've never received any email regarding a BIOS update so far.
If I received an email advising that there was an update to the m6805 and I own the m6810 I would not assume that it was definitely applicable to the m6810 - I would assume that the update "might" be applicable to the m6810.

I am a gweilo yes - very much so - coming from Scotland (White).

I was suggesting that your answer was very clever because we know that the term Gweilo is traditionally not positive.

The "modern" interpretation plays this aspect down very much, hence, I thought that your answer was clever - a career in politics ahead perhaps?

This reminds me of "back in the day" when I was at University in Edinburgh and I had a nice Scottish (Chinese origin) friend called Sheila. In those less "enlightened" days I used the colloquial term for a Chinese restaurant and I admit I used what I considered was a generally acceptable term for Chinese people when I spoke with her.

Well, my good friend Shelia looked absolutely shocked (I'm not PC correct by any means but the "Thought Police" will be out if I type the exact words here I'm sure!) by the use of terminology and I think I looked even more shocked from her reaction

Anyway, once I arrived in Hong Kong (in 1995) I was on the phone to her pretty quickly to wind her up about the liberal use of terminology for "foreigners".

A good case of the double standard - I've been winding her up for years about it too

 

[gtd2000]

Originally posted by: imanewguy
pardon the complete noobness, but I'm quite computer illiterate and am having a few issues with this SP2/Bios problem. Reading through much of the posts, I've downloaded the bios update for the Emachines 6805 model, (but I have a 6810) from their site, but have yet to use it.

My question is do I need to uninstall SP2 (I'm told this would be a tedious process) before I update my bios? or can I just go with the update and things should work themselves out afterwards? Am I able to reinstall SP2 after I update without having to uninstall it before I update? (That sounds confusing as I reread that sentence).

Any help would be appreciated, cause this damn SP2 problem is killing my computer...

BIOS updates are generally to support hardware from my experience.
e.g. later revisions of CPUs, larger capacity HD's etc
I'm certainly not going to suggest that the BIOS cannot have an effect on the working OS of your system as I'm not familiar enough with that side of computing.

From what I have read elsewhere SP2 is not considered a good idea in the first place.

Assuming that your machine was running perfectly well with SP1 and you are now experiencing difficulties with SP2 I'd just roll back to SP1 if that is possible?

I have only used BIOS updates as and when I needed them as opposed to just doing it for the sake of it, e.g. installing an overclocking (hacked) BIOS for my ECS K7S5A.

Read the BIOS release notes to see if the update will resolve any of your issues.

 

[imanewguy]

gtd2000, you're right, from what I've seen, sp2 seems to cause problems, but I did see some people say a couple of conflicting reports on the issue, earlier in these posts, one where someone said updating their bios last summer with some of the unofficial bios' linked to from this forum, and sp2 has been running fine ever since.

But I also read somewhere that emachines themselves said that this bios is not guaranteed to fix any os issues, as you said, so i'm liable to NOT do this, especially since the bios update is only listed for the m6805 when I have a 6810 (Again, saw somewhere on this forum that emachines advised against crossing the bios' up, despite the fact that someone said that they are the same machines all around...)

In any case, seems like the smart thing to do would be just to reinstall my original setup (a pain) or roll back, as you said to sp1, but fact is, I havent' a clue how to do that, and as I've heard from a friend, it's a hassle to do such a thing. Is it just better to go and reinstall my os and just not get sp2? Cause it seems like that's pretty much the easiest (but still tedious) route to go...

 

[imported_Woody]

I installed SP2 on my M6805 before my BIOS update and it caused all kinds of problems. After flashing the BIOS with the M6811 version SP2 ran fine.

Uninstalling SP2 is very easy, simply enter a system restore point prior to the installation and roll back to it. If you are uncertain how to do this press "F1" from the desktop for MS help and search for the topic "system restore" and run the system restore wizard.

SP2 is an excellent upgrade for WindowsXP and I highly recommend it for the added features and security it provides, especially on laptops. Flashing the BIOS with an usupported version will void your warranty regardless and you need to make this decision yourself. I recommend hassling Gateway (eMachines) and hopefully they will address this issue.

 

[gweilo8888]

Originally posted by: gtd2000

I have the m6810 but I've never received any email regarding a BIOS update so far.
If I received an email advising that there was an update to the m6805 and I own the m6810 I would not assume that it was definitely applicable to the m6810 - I would assume that the update "might" be applicable to the m6810.

As I said, it is not an "email". It is a support agent program that runs in the background on your computer. You probably uninstalled it - another indication of the fact that you're not the target user for it, and would likely know more than the target user.

The average M680X user who got the message would likely believe it was intended for them, particularly since it only once mentions the model number in a vague manner, and nowhere says that the message isn't for all M680X users.

I am a gweilo yes - very much so - coming from Scotland (White).

I was suggesting that your answer was very clever because we know that the term Gweilo is traditionally not positive.

The "modern" interpretation plays this aspect down very much, hence, I thought that your answer was clever - a career in politics ahead perhaps?

Not really. That's just how the word is interpreted now. Most expats I knew were proud to call themselves gweilos; most Hong Kong Chinese I knew (and some of them, I was friends with to where they would throw themselves in front of traffic to save my life) called my a gweilo. Nobody intended the connotations that were once applied to the characters.

This reminds me of "back in the day" when I was at University in Edinburgh and I had a nice Scottish (Chinese origin) friend called Sheila. In those less "enlightened" days I used the colloquial term for a Chinese restaurant and I admit I used what I considered was a generally acceptable term for Chinese people when I spoke with her.

Well, my good friend Shelia looked absolutely shocked (I'm not PC correct by any means but the "Thought Police" will be out if I type the exact words here I'm sure!) by the use of terminology and I think I looked even more shocked from her reaction

Anyway, once I arrived in Hong Kong (in 1995) I was on the phone to her pretty quickly to wind her up about the liberal use of terminology for "foreigners".

A good case of the double standard - I've been winding her up for years about it too

I'm not sure I know what term you used, although I can guess. Thing is, most of the English terms that were once used in a desultory fashion are still used in that way by *most* of the people using those words. N*gger, Ch*nk, P*ki, you name it, and probably better than 50% use the word in a derogatory way; very few would consider it a respectful term.

This is totally off-topic though, so it shall be my last word on the matter.

 

[gweilo8888]

Originally posted by: gtd2000

BIOS updates are generally to support hardware from my experience.
e.g. later revisions of CPUs, larger capacity HD's etc
I'm certainly not going to suggest that the BIOS cannot have an effect on the working OS of your system as I'm not familiar enough with that side of computing.

From what I have read elsewhere SP2 is not considered a good idea in the first place.

You're misinformed on both counts, I'm afraid.

* Most BIOS updates are to fix programming errors (bugs) in the original BIOS that cause unintended problems with hardware or software, including operating systems.

* SP2 is highly recommended, particularly for users who don't know much about PCs. The security benefits alone make it well worth installing; a stock XP or SP1 PC is an accident waiting to happen in terms of security.

Read the BIOS release notes to see if the update will resolve any of your issues.

Neither eMachines nor Arima provides any release notes for their BIOS updates to the public, unfortunately.

 

[gweilo8888]

Originally posted by: Woody

Flashing the BIOS with an usupported version will void your warranty regardless and you need to make this decision yourself. I recommend hassling Gateway (eMachines) and hopefully they will address this issue.

Just to clarify, the eMachines update announced on Big Fix cannot possibly considered unsupported *unless* you've phoned eMachines yourself and essentially asked to be told that. Once you phone eMachines there's a record in their system of you being told not to use it, but up until that point the only contact you've had from eMachines tells you there's a new update for "your computer" and "your system", enough to persuade most people to install the update. Even if the update *weren't* for any laptops other than the 6805, it would be eMachines that was responsible for problems since they used the words "your computer" and "your system", sent the Big Fix update to all M680X users, and didn't correct that error themselves.

Hence you cannot possibly void your warranty by installing this update.

 

[Haywire]

Originally posted by: boblon
Just loaded XP64 on a stock 6809 (except for having 1.25MB mem). Installed fine, sound and wireless works fine. Am downloading the beta video drivers now (s...l....o....w...).

Anyhow, I have one unrecognized device in device manager (PCI Simple Communications Controller). Anybody know what that is? Firewire maybe?

My real question is, should we start listing what 32 bit apps work well? Or does the WoW emulator work well enough that we can list what does NOT work so well?

So far I've only loade the OS and the Avast antivirus product.

BobL.

I believe that it is the modem if I am not mistaken.

M6811 w/ cracked hinges

 

[gtd2000]

Originally posted by: gweilo8888
[QNot really. That's just how the word is interpreted now. Most expats I knew were proud to call themselves gweilos; most Hong Kong Chinese I knew (and some of them, I was friends with to where they would throw themselves in front of traffic to save my life) called my a gweilo. Nobody intended the connotations that were once applied to the characters.

It is every bit as relevant as it was in the old days to be honest - it's just used so liberally these days thats all. It's just like it is acceptable for blacks to call each other ni*gers.

I once had a taxi driver aplogise profusely to me in Macau when he was talking to my Chinese GF about where all the "foreigners" lived and instead of saying Oi-Gwok-Yan he used "Gweilo"...to me it is simply amusing as it does not matter what you call somebody - it's the meaning that counts

I was talking about the word Ch*nk before and going for a Ch*nky, which, where I came from were not in the least considered offensive words.

Anyway, back on the BIOS front you are correct in that I have not got the program that you mention installed - I run a vanilla install of XP Pro with SP1 for USB 2.0 support.

I'm not fully up to speed on SP2 but I gather it is mainly security updates.

For the past 3 years or so, anybody not running a 3rd party firewall and AV software would have had more than enough problems without waiting for SP2 to come along and fudge up the rest of their PC

 

[gtd2000]

Originally posted by: Haywire

Originally posted by: boblon
Just loaded XP64 on a stock 6809 (except for having 1.25MB mem). Installed fine, sound and wireless works fine. Am downloading the beta video drivers now (s...l....o....w...).

Anyhow, I have one unrecognized device in device manager (PCI Simple Communications Controller). Anybody know what that is? Firewire maybe?

My real question is, should we start listing what 32 bit apps work well? Or does the WoW emulator work well enough that we can list what does NOT work so well?

So far I've only loade the OS and the Avast antivirus product.

BobL.

I would second that - I've seen it during my Vanilla XP Pro installs and loading the modem driver cleared it.


I believe that it is the modem if I am not mistaken.

M6811 w/ cracked hinges

 

[imported_Woody]

gweilo8888: You're making this BIOS update issue more complicated than it is. I'm sure any BIOS update available by eMachines on their website will not void your warranty and I doupt there is a conspiracy to track customers who have been told specifically not to install an update. There are several unsupported BIOS flashes that work just great on these laptops that will void your warranty but it is pretty easy to undue the changes you make if you need service, so long as you don't have any problems during the process to render the system inoperable. I haven't heard of anyone having these problems.