**OFFICIAL** FFXIV:ARR Thread

[TheUnk]

Ifrit isn't twitchy and neither is Garuda. Turn 5 (sans dive bombs) isn't very twitchy either... even DS for tanks you can see it coming.

If you classify Titan and ADS as twitchy then yes Ifrit and Garuda are too.

Ifrit you have eruption and plumes. Even just HM Ifrit it has twitch moments for tanks and if they fail then everyone.

Garuda as the tank you have slipstreams to dodge, x2 if MT, everyone has have friction and windburn.

You really may want to move on, these sort of fight mechanics are going to be around for a good while in this game.

 

[PowerYoga]

"Twitchy" i see as a wipe if you fail to dodge.

ADS: if you screw up silence, there's a very good chance of wiping. Twintania? You screwup the divebomb, you have a good chance of dying and there's little chance of you getting a res. Plus its possible to get everyone killed by getting knocked into flames. Titan: eat a landslide and you're dead. Due to the nature of the plumes in titan: if you eat one, you're eating multiple plumes and thus you are going to die.

But Garuda? You can eat everything multiple times and be fine, just pop a cooldown. Same with ifrit plumes and eruptions. Eat a plume and you'll take 3k damage, but live. Eat an eruption? 3k damage, but live. I've screwed up multiple times in garuda/ifrit as a dps and still lived thanks to great healers. (I usually tank, so I screw up when DPSing since I don't pay as much attention)

FYI: I've cleared all the primals multiple times, dodging is not an issue for me. Dancing is a stupid gimmick that developers fall back on when they're not being innovative. Get off your high horse.

 

[TheUnk]

Twintania divebombs.. Many wins here with people getting a res for various reasons including divebomb death. You only have a good chance of wiping everyone if you aren't all the way in the hole and you get targeted.

Garuda has twitch mechanics too. DPS mess up and don't kill spiney fast enough? Wipe. Tank too slow to notice 3 stacks? Wipe. Tank eats windburn+dbl wicked wheel+slipsteams? Healers better twitch react there with bene or lustrates or guess what? Wipe.

Ifrit Eruptions can easily kill all your dps if people don't move correctly. The near arena wide plumes too. It's not just 3k dmg. Maybe if you are a tank, but not as a DPS. Same goes for the tank switching here, too slow to switch can easily mean a wipe.


It's not a gimmick. It's reaction based movement and actions that are in nearly every fight in this game and many others.

 

[KaOTiK]

I don't mind twitch mechanics, I actually really like dodging and dancing a lot as a healer. What I hate is just plain ass boring and long fights. Perfect example, Garauda Extreme, talking about a horrible fight. It is long and boring as hell, which is a real shame because Garauda HM is probably my fav still.

On another note, SE needs to fix their fucking instance servers. The last 2 nights the servers have crapped out, on Monday they went down completely and after 30 mins my group called it quit on TS, last night every 15 mins it started dropping us and continued to do so a few times till we called it quits and it was happening to others as well so we knew it wasn't just us. We haven't seen instance server problems since the first month of the game so wtf SE.

 

[PowerYoga]

The spiney has so little health that you can accidentally kill it, I don't even know why you're bringing it up.

You have a full 30 seconds after 2nd stack to pull spiny off OT, and if you "didn't notice" this fast enough, your tank is not paying attention and its HIS fault and its not a twitch mechanism at all. Wicked Wheel is predictable, always coming after friction after the teleport and the tank is responsible for popping CDs to mitigate the damage. You have nearly a minute to anticipate all of these things coming.

These are terrible examples of being "twitchy". This is just a case of reaction based gameplay and to be more blunt, simply paying attention.

Ifrit eruptions I'll give you, but arena wide plumes are not stacked like titan plumes and if you eat just 1, you will not die. Plus on ifrit, you don't need every DPS alive to beat him, and you have plenty of time to res people if they die on arena wide plumes or eruptions. Considering how he doesn't do eruptions or arena-plumes while nails are up, your whole point is moot.

And actually, you don't need to tank switch on Ifrit at all. A Warrior with high enough HP can eat every single breath, since it stops at 5 stacks and he'll have a little over 5.5k hp to eat attacks with. Again, you have like 2 whole minutes to switch after 2-3 stacks. This is simply paying attention, not "twitchy" at all. A good example of tank-switching is ultima, NOT ifrit. Even then you have like 2-3 minutes to switch tanks since stacks build pretty slowly on ultima.

You're clearly not understanding what I mean about "twitchy" mechanics and think I'm talking about simple "reaction based" mechanics, which are two completely different things.

 

[darkewaffle]

I don't really mind it and I think the polling rate change that went through a few months ago made a big difference personally, before that I got hit with more Weight of the Lands than I'd rather care to admit to lol.

Frankly I don't think it's even that different. WoW was five years ago for me so it's pretty fuzzy by now but the only significant difference I recall/see between the 'style' of the encounters is that WoW had a larger representation of methodical/'execution' (gearcheck?) based encounters like the Cat boss in ZA, Patchwerk, Loatheb, Brutallus. But it certainly had it's fair share of 'dodge' fights as well like Heigan, Thaddius, Void Reaver. I think it's one thing to say that they are too unforgiving but in principal it's still just good old "dont stand in the fire".

 

[TheUnk]

Parties wipe a lot because they don't kill spiney fast enough and by the time they can get in the bubble it's too late. Just because the tank is responsible for a "twitch" mechanic doesn't separate it out from your other so called twitch fights. Every mechanic so far is predictable. You can know exactly when High Voltage is coming, or a move from Titan, or a Divebomb from Twin.

I've also seen plenty of party wipes from the tanks positioning Ifrit wrong and all dps, with 4k+ HP, dying from the plumes. You also absolutely do not have 2 whole mins from 2-3 stacks in Ifrit to switch. Nope.

You're clearly not understanding what I mean about "twitchy" mechanics and think I'm talking about simple "reaction based" mechanics, which are two completely different things.

You are right I don't understand. All fights we have are reaction based, some with more detrimental effects than others, and some that require quicker reactions.

It sounds like you don't like fights where 1 person reacting too slow to a mechanic can cause a wipe, and these in your opinion are twitchy fights and do not belong in MMOs.

 

[PowerYoga]

It sounds like you don't like fights where 1 person reacting too slow to a mechanic can cause a wipe, and these in your opinion are twitchy fights and do not belong in MMOs.

This is the only part you got right, so I'll leave it at that.

Fights should be mechanical and execution-based, not "If I can't dodge GAME MECHANIC we wipe".

Somewhat off topic: Thaddeus and Heigan (especially Heigan) are fairly early raid designs and I don't recall seeing something too similar later on burning crusade and beyond, but I quit very soon after that. Void reaver wasn't dance oriented exactly, it was "run the fuck away from the orb chasing you". I was a melee though, so I was assigned to "get hit in the face" group. Not very dance intensive...

 

[darkewaffle]

Finally got a pug group to down T4, I'm hoping I'll have a bit of an easier time just finding a T1-T4 group this week rather than doing it piecemeal.

Titan Ex next, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much middleground between "farm/weekly groups" and "groups that can't get past heart" lol. Really I just want some experience dealing with the adds and the new bomb phases/etc but rarely get that far.

 

[tedrodai]

Yeah a friend helped me finally get some post heart practice by cheating and starting a 'greed' group. >.>

I felt bad and was nervous, but after 3 attempts I'd seen all of post-heart and was confident enough to crash my own farm/'pro' clear groups. Then you learn 1/2 the people creating/joining those 'pro-only' groups are putting up bravado and hoping to be carried through.

I didn't win with my friend helping, but I managed it 2 groups later 1-shotting it. The group in-between queued ifrit and tried to make me leave, but they gave me a shot because they were tired of waiting to fill the group; but 2 other guys kept dying ridiculously early.

I hate pugging that fight because of the attitudes you have to deal with.

Edit: I forgot the point I was going to make. You pretty much have to jump into those groups and know you're going to mess up a couple times if you're stuck pugging it like so many people.

 

[TheUnk]

It's really not cool to go and completely waste other peoples time for your own benefit.

If you need to learn start a learning party or use duty finder. Eventually they'll get to the point you need experience in.

After that join a "weekly clear" type group. There are plenty of those come Monday, at least on my server.

The greed/farm groups should be left alone unless you are 100% confident in the entire fight.

 

[PowerYoga]

Finally got a pug group to down T4, I'm hoping I'll have a bit of an easier time just finding a T1-T4 group this week rather than doing it piecemeal.

Titan Ex next, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much middleground between "farm/weekly groups" and "groups that can't get past heart" lol. Really I just want some experience dealing with the adds and the new bomb phases/etc but rarely get that far.

Form your practice group, specify "must have post heart experience". You'll have to be a hardass and kick people who keep dying pre-heart or during heart. Titan EX does not tolerate mistakes, and you can't either.

There's no way a practice group is clearing EX Titan unless the stars align and they all happen to be good players that have the same shitty luck you did.

 

[tedrodai]

I don't entirely disagree Unk, but I don't entirely agree either. You say it's not cool to mislead people who expect a quick, easy clear (which is true). And I add that it's uncool to be self-serving and not help those with less experience...because the vast majority of people who can clear only look down on those who haven't yet. Or if they don't look down, they certainly don't try to help. And you can't trust what the PF says because of human nature, and the fact that it can be such a frustrating fight in a PUG. I've yet to find a farm group that could farm the fight with out at least 1 regroup, but in a regroup you also tend to lose several of the 'better' players cause they're not going to waste their own time...which is just another way of wasting everyone else's time.

You're overestimating the worth of a learning group though. You can go for literally weeks without learning a thing...just watching other people hinder progress.

Here's another tip though: try to do Titan Ex on Monday when the most # of people are working on it, maybe Tuesday, or Sunday night with the crowd that needs last-second clears. It's possible to get a decent group during the rest of the week, but much less likely.

 

[TheUnk]

And I add that it's uncool to be self-serving and not help those with less experience...because the vast majority of people who can clear only look down on those who haven't yet. Or if they don't look down, they certainly don't try to help.

Well those people already went through the pain of learning groups, can't really expect them to endure more suffering and join random PF groups for learning when they have nothing to learn =p

I help people I know do learning runs, but not randoms.

 

[darkewaffle]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/71bfb44b4ed23abf821880a4bdd756a7a4278daf

Small preview of new 2.2 dungeons, the Amdapor screenshots looks really good imo. Brayflox and Halatali you can't really tell much of anything, but I would say those are two of the better dungeons so I'm glad to see HMs added for them. Though with the additional coil and CT levels that are coming (and presumably stronger gear) I'm curious how relevant more level 50something dungeons will actually be. Roulette will probably always provide some 'current' reward I guess.

 

[PowerYoga]

I'm assuming they'll provide the new currency, but your guess is as good as mine. If they only provide myth and philo they will be worth running only whenever you get them in the roulette.

And as soon as coil & myth unlocks nobody will run the current CT anymore unless they want the fragment for housing or they want to run it for the first time. It'll die like CM and Prae runs, too much effort for the reward.

 

[darkewaffle]

Eh, once people can vanity items there will still be some appeal I think, for the most part it's pretty nice looking stuff. Plus depending on how 'nerfed' coil gets, T1/T2 are still a struggle for some segment of the player base.

Was an inch away from downing titan ex lol, I didn't know he had 'enrage upheaval'. Ah well, this week looks promising though.

 

[TheUnk]

Eh, once people can vanity items there will still be some appeal I think, for the most part it's pretty nice looking stuff. Plus depending on how 'nerfed' coil gets, T1/T2 are still a struggle for some segment of the player base.

Was an inch away from downing titan ex lol, I didn't know he had 'enrage upheaval'. Ah well, this week looks promising though.

Yeah plus there are still a surprising amount of players who haven't reached 50 yet. Unless they get people to carry them they aren't going to be farming coil any time soon. An easy way for those players to farm phil/myth while getting gear is going to still be CT I imagine.

I'm also looking forward to all the crying from people who can't still beat a nerfed Twintania and therefore can't start T6 =p It will be the new "Selling Titan HM - 1mil"

 

[darkewaffle]

Has there been any word on whether you actually need to beat Twin to access T6? I didn't think of that.

 

[PowerYoga]

Eh, once people can vanity items there will still be some appeal I think, for the most part it's pretty nice looking stuff. Plus depending on how 'nerfed' coil gets, T1/T2 are still a struggle for some segment of the player base.

Was an inch away from downing titan ex lol, I didn't know he had 'enrage upheaval'. Ah well, this week looks promising though.

They're not nerfing the actual encounters at all from what I've heard. They're just providing the echo buff... which will trivialize all of the turns.

The echo buff will negate t1 and t2 for the most part. Wipe enough times and you'll have the HP and DPS to down t1 and t2 without struggle. The buff will also trivialize most of the mechanic in T5 (death sentence, eating fireballs, living through aetheral profusion with stacks on, etc)

T4 is a bit more tricky since it's more mechanic intensive than anything, but having echo buff will make tanking dreads and killing stuff more or less trivial.

Also I hope you'll have to beat Twin to access T6. It'd be really annoying if you can just go to T6 right away, farm I95-I100 gear, then come back and kill twin like she's nothing.

As for titan's enrage upheaval... I think I've only seen that once. Is that after the 3rd summon?

Siren in pharos also enrages if you don't kill her fast enough. Summons unlimited adds.

 

[darkewaffle]

I don't think there was an an actual third set of adds, but yeah it happens at 'about that time'. Basically you have two phase 3 cycles to kill him - I'm pretty sure we had lost one DPS early in the fight and a second one somewhere along the way in P3.

I think I only ever got the echo buff like... once during the story lol. Isn't it just like +5% HP/MP?

 

[TheUnk]

Has there been any word on whether you actually need to beat Twin to access T6? I didn't think of that.

Not sure if it was officially announced but it would make sense. There is also a quest you complete after T5 which, when added, probably opens the next quest for T6 access.

 

[tedrodai]

I've read more than 1 interview with yoshida where he said that you DO have to clear t5 before you can move to t6. I don't have a link to sources, but count on it.

I assume you'll only need to beat it once for the story progression, then you can do the new turns 6 - 9(?) each week without redoing 1 - 5. But that's just my guess, because the interview answers never got that specific.

In those same interviews, he mentioned the buff for the old coil turns may be specific to those turns...I.E. not exactly the same as the current echo buff, though similar. Though he said they were still thinking about it all, so not much use speculating too much.

 

[darkewaffle]

I would imagine you only need to clear T5 once to access T6 ever - though requiring a Twintania down to access T6+ each week is admittedly a highly amusing idea lol.

 

[PowerYoga]

I don't think there was an an actual third set of adds, but yeah it happens at 'about that time'. Basically you have two phase 3 cycles to kill him - I'm pretty sure we had lost one DPS early in the fight and a second one somewhere along the way in P3.

I think I only ever got the echo buff like... once during the story lol. Isn't it just like +5% HP/MP?

I believe the buff is a huge HP/MP increase plus DET up, so you take less damage and have more dps. I've never seen the buff so i don't know the %s.