*** Official Gigabyte P965-DS3 Thread ***

[Tessien]

Originally posted by: River Side
well than what does "Native Mode" mean? cuz the ICH8 doesn't support NCQ i've heard..

Well, Mr. Google showed me this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=1910456

It looks like the "Native mode" means SATA mode, while "Legace mode" means IDE mode.

 

[vinayg30]

hey everyone,

hope i dont get slammed for this novice question.. just building a pc for the first time.. got the e6600 and audigy 2zs... the video forum convinced me to get the 7600gt video card.. still confused about the mobo... frontrunners are asus p5b deluxe, gigabyte p965 ds3 and gigabyte p965 dq6... so which one should it be???

 

[oc newbie]

I had the exact same problem as many have had with the DS3: constant reboot, never even making it to post... but most people have been getting this only after oc'ing, I had it from day one. Already sent the mobo back 12 days ago.
So has anyone figured it out yet? everything brand new, and same reboot loop even though I removed everything from the motherboard. was left with PSU and mobo. same thing.

My questions are:
Why did I get the problem before overclocking?
Could it still be the cpu (6400)? Since the computer seemed to stay on with the +12v plug from the psu unconnected (no picture though). I mean, I've heard that this 12V is what powers the cpu?
And how about memory? cheapest MDT I could find in the german internet store I bought my rig at ^_^. Could there be problems when/if I get my new mobo?

btw the board said rev 1.0... are these known to be the most unstable?

 

[blurp]

Originally posted by: oc newbie
I had the exact same problem as many have had with the DS3: constant reboot, never even making it to post... but most people have been getting this only after oc'ing, I had it from day one. Already sent the mobo back 12 days ago.
So has anyone figured it out yet? everything brand new, and same reboot loop even though I removed everything from the motherboard. was left with PSU and mobo. same thing.

My questions are:
Why did I get the problem before overclocking?
Could it still be the cpu (6400)? Since the computer seemed to stay on with the +12v plug from the psu unconnected (no picture though). I mean, I've heard that this 12V is what powers the cpu?
And how about memory? cheapest MDT I could find in the german internet store I bought my rig at ^_^. Could there be problems when/if I get my new mobo?

btw the board said rev 1.0... are these known to be the most unstable?

No reboot problem here with rev. 1.

 

[saymyname]

Originally posted by: oc newbie
I had the exact same problem as many have had with the DS3: constant reboot, never even making it to post... but most people have been getting this only after oc'ing, I had it from day one. Already sent the mobo back 12 days ago.
So has anyone figured it out yet? everything brand new, and same reboot loop even though I removed everything from the motherboard. was left with PSU and mobo. same thing.

My questions are:
Why did I get the problem before overclocking?
Could it still be the cpu (6400)? Since the computer seemed to stay on with the +12v plug from the psu unconnected (no picture though). I mean, I've heard that this 12V is what powers the cpu?
And how about memory? cheapest MDT I could find in the german internet store I bought my rig at ^_^. Could there be problems when/if I get my new mobo?

btw the board said rev 1.0... are these known to be the most unstable?

Memtest?

 

[Diogenes2]

Originally posted by: saymyname
Memtest?

....constant reboot, never even making it to post.

 

[River Side]

Originally posted by: Tessien

Originally posted by: River Side
well than what does "Native Mode" mean? cuz the ICH8 doesn't support NCQ i've heard..

Well, Mr. Google showed me this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=1910456

It looks like the "Native mode" means SATA mode, while "Legace mode" means IDE mode.

Thanks.. it's partially helpful but the confusion remains.. does this Port 0-3 Native mode apply to the orange ICH8 ports or the purple JMicron ports?

Most people in that thread had the DQ6 with ICH8R not ICH8

 

[saymyname]

Originally posted by: Diogenes2

Originally posted by: saymyname
Memtest?

....constant reboot, never even making it to post.

Hammer?

 

[amenx]

I've had this board for about a week, no problems really, just minor irritants. Some bios error beeps come up at random and without reason at bootup. One potentially major thing is the 'cruise' setting in the bios' MIT tweak page. Tried it out of curiosity and found games crashing and unstable. Checked the temps and my e6400 was at 94c, this on Speedfan. I thought surely must be a mistake as my temps idle in low 30's and rarely go over high 40's even in intensive use. So I was stunned and waited for it to go down but it wouldnt go below 60. This at stock speeds, no OC. Went back to the bios and disabled the 'cruise' and temps went back to normal. So be careful with these 'intelligent tweak' settings.

 

[Tessien]

Originally posted by: River Side

Originally posted by: Tessien

Originally posted by: River Side
well than what does "Native Mode" mean? cuz the ICH8 doesn't support NCQ i've heard..

Well, Mr. Google showed me this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=1910456

It looks like the "Native mode" means SATA mode, while "Legace mode" means IDE mode.

Thanks.. it's partially helpful but the confusion remains.. does this Port 0-3 Native mode apply to the orange ICH8 ports or the purple JMicron ports?

Most people in that thread had the DQ6 with ICH8R not ICH8

The orange ones.

 

[koitsu]

Originally posted by: koitsu
I'm now trying these settings:

* BIOS: Enabled: CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)
* BIOS: Disabled: CPU Thermal Monitor 2 (TM2)
* BIOS: Disabled: CPU EIST Function
* BIOS: Disabled: Virtualization Technology

Ran for about 2 days; just now I had a random reboot while in FFXI. First time I've ever seen a reboot happen, but reboots and lock-ups... same thing for the most part.

So, it's safe to say the C1E feature is what's causing my system to randomly freak out. This is disappointing, as I really don't like the idea of my CPU core running at 53C constantly when it doesn't need to be. External CPU temperature remains about the same regardless though.

Does anyone know of any compatibility implications using this feature? That is, incompatibilities with video cards or audio cards? Most everyone I see in this thread disables all of the above BIOS options.

I'll be trying these options for awhile:

* BIOS: Disabled: CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)
* BIOS: Disabled: CPU Thermal Monitor 2 (TM2)
* BIOS: Enabled: CPU EIST Function
* BIOS: Enabled: Virtualization Technology

EDIT: I've purchased an Asus P5B board (should be here later this week), as I want to see if this random crashing is specific to the DS3 board or if its some other component. I REALLY want C1E to work, because so many people all over the place are having success with it.

 

[tran1981]

I disabled C1E and EIST. U can try RMClock to enable C1E and EIST in windows again. I'm running @ 426FSB with E6400 do I need to set on GMCh OVERV +0.1V and FSB OVERV +0.1V?

 

[koitsu]

Originally posted by: tran1981
I disabled C1E and EIST. U can try RMClock to enable C1E and EIST in windows again.

I've my doubts about using EIST in the first place. Either the DS3 BIOS is doing something wrong, or RMClock is validating EIST state wrong.

When the EIST feature is enabled in the BIOS, RMClock does not detect this. RMClock always labels this CPU feature as disabled, despite what the BIOS setting is.

For sake of comparison, the C1E and TM2 features work fine (if enabled in the BIOS, RMClock sees them as enabled). There's obviously a bug in either the BIOS, or in RMClock.

 

[koitsu]

Originally posted by: River Side
well than what does "Native Mode" mean? cuz the ICH8 doesn't support NCQ i've heard..

The SATA Native Mode vs. Legacy Mode (sometimes called "Emulated Mode") has nothing to do with NCQ or TCQ. NCQ and TCQ are command-queuing features of SATA hard disks. Of course, you won't gain any benefits from NCQ/TCQ if you're in Legacy/Emulated Mode. Native/Legacy Mode are specific to Intel ICH controllers.

SATA Native Mode allows the SATA controller (in this case, the ICH8 or ICH8R; it doesn't matter which) to perform all SATA parameters/commands to the host system natively. The operating system SATA driver needs to be installed and available to work; otherwise, you'll find your OS doesn't see your hard disks. You'll get a decent performance gain using Native Mode.

SATA Legacy/Emulated Mode allows the SATA controller to function as an EIDE controller; operating systems like MS-DOS will be able to use SATA drives using this feature. From the operating systems standpoint, the drives are available via a pure 100% IDE bus, and the OS has no idea that they're actually SATA drives or that it's communicating with a SATA controller. You lose performance in this mode, but gain compatibility with operating systems that lack proper drivers for understanding native SATA commands.

Thanks.. it's partially helpful but the confusion remains.. does this Port 0-3 Native mode apply to the orange ICH8 ports or the purple JMicron ports?

The DS3 BIOS feature applies to only the SATA ports which are connected to the ICH8 controller -- those would be the "orange" ports.

The "purple" ports are connected to the native Gigabyte SATAII controller (if it's JMicron, fine). The BIOS setting won't have any affect on these, because such a controller does not have Native/Legacy capability (unless provided by the controller BIOS) because it's an "Intel thing"; such controllers are always using native SATA.

Does this help answer your question?

 

[sanitydc]

yeah so i've had my setup going steady for a month now, but i just installed another dvd-rw drive, and for some reason when I have both DVD drives plugged in when I try to load windows everything goes to ******! itll turn on but my my computer loads very slow if at all and my explorer in general seems ont he verge of crash.... any ideas?

 

[River Side]

Originally posted by: koitsu

The SATA Native Mode vs. Legacy Mode (sometimes called "Emulated Mode") has nothing to do with NCQ or TCQ.
Does this help answer your question?

Thanks for the explanation.. Yes.. now it does. One last question.. is there an example available of how a SATA drive should show in the Devices display when configured correctly with Native Port Enabled?.. i.e. How do I know I have the right drivers installed and the drive working in Native Mode.. I do have the Bios option turned on but I think there's more to it than just that.

 

[koitsu]

Originally posted by: River Side
Thanks for the explanation.. Yes.. now it does. One last question.. is there an example available of how a SATA drive should show in the Devices display when configured correctly with Native Port Enabled?.. i.e. How do I know I have the right drivers installed and the drive working in Native Mode.. I do have the Bios option turned on but I think there's more to it than just that.

As far as I know, no, there's no way to determine this other than via disk benchmarking. Windows has always handled the driver portion of EIDE and SATA in a strange manner. Assuming you're using the Intel Chipset INF drivers below, then that's all you'll really need.

http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts...rnal/Product_Filter.aspx?ProductID=816

If I had to make a recommendation, try some SiSoft Sandra disk benchmarks to compare the two modes. I'll guess you won't see much of a difference, but the Native mode should at least be a tiny bit higher. Let me know -- I can always run the same benchmark here and we can compare.

 

[oc newbie]

You suggested memtest.. Like I wrote I never even make it to POST..
BUT... what if my memory is not supported by the mobo? If I remove them (both or just one) the exact same thing happens.. Anyone tried booting the ds3 with no memory installed?
Maybe a little far-fetched that my memory (some cheap MDT 2x1gb 667) would be completely unrecognizable by the mobo, that is, it would regard them as the same as having no memory at all???

and how about the cpu? like I said, it sort of works (fans go on) with the +12V unplugged...

I read that other people had the same reboot-loop problem? have you gotten it fixed somehow??

 

[River Side]

Originally posted by: koitsu
As far as I know, no, there's no way to determine this other than via disk benchmarking. Windows has always handled the driver portion of EIDE and SATA in a strange manner. Assuming you're using the Intel Chipset INF drivers below, then that's all you'll really need.

i'd done that already.. i only get a 1ms difference between the two settings.. which is what sparked my curiosity and the question.. I was concerned that the Native setting was for the purple gigabyte controller.. otherwise the diff between enabled and disabled should IMO have more of an effect than just one lousy ms..

 

[koitsu]

Something worth noting about this board (or rather, the BIOS)...

Numerous CPU features appear to not be available or enabled due to whatever Gigabyte is doing in their BIOS. I compared RMClock results with a friend of mine with a P5B + E6400. The differences are notable. Bolded entries are blue/enabled in RMClock:

First, the DS3 -- running F6 (but I've verified these with F5 too):

General ->
PM Features: EIST TM1 TM2 ODCM CxE

Advanced CPU Settings ->
[x] Enable Thermal Monitor 1
[ ] Enable Thermal Monitor 2
[x] Sync TM1 on CPU Cores
[x] Enable Extended Throttling
[ ] Enable Enhanced Halt State (C1E)

As we all know, you can toggle TM2 monitoring via the BIOS, and C1E as well. So those could possibly be enabled in the above example, depending on your BIOS settings.

Now the P5B:

General ->
PM Features: EIST TM1 TM2 ODCM CxE

Advanced CPU Settings ->
[x] Enable Thermal Monitor 1
[x] Enable Thermal Monitor 2
[ ] Sync TM1 on CPU Cores
[x] Enable Extended Throttling
[x] Enable Enhanced Halt State (C1E)

Firstly, the CxE option in PM Features defines whether or not the CxE features (C1E, C2E, etc.) are available. I'm baffled as to why on the Gigabyte system this option isn't blue.

Secondly, the P5B chooses not to sync TM1 between both CPU cores. I assume both cores have their own TM1? If so, I've seen no utility which indicates this. If not, then why is it enabled on the Gigabyte board?

It's possible RMClock isn't detecting certain features properly... but it's also very possible that Gigabyte isn't initialising some CPU-related things during POST. I'm wondering if that's leading to some of us experiencing crashes...

The reason I care about all of this should be obvious from reading my previous posts in this thread. ;-)

 

[koitsu]

Originally posted by: River Side
i'd done that already.. i only get a 1ms difference between the two settings.. which is what sparked my curiosity and the question..

Err... 1ms? Milliseconds are used to measure things like seek, read, or write times. You won't see these change when toggling that BIOS option. You should, on the other hand, see a fluxuation in actual bus throughput (KBytes or MBytes/sec) and possibly disk throughput.

 

[River Side]

well that's the only thing that changed.. didn't show any change in throughput.. only seek times..

 

[koitsu]

Originally posted by: River Side
well that's the only thing that changed.. didn't show any change in throughput.. only seek times..

Interesting. Possibly the Intel INF (ICH8) drivers force Native Mode inside of Windows (which would make the BIOS option somewhat stupid; should be Legacy/Emulate by default, then let the OS make the decision). Maybe it's for OSes which can't toggle it.

I'll try some benchmarks myself and compare. I just got my DS3 back up and running (from dealing with the P5B earlier -- ugh!)

 

[koitsu]

Originally posted by: koitsu
Something worth noting about this board (or rather, the BIOS)...

Numerous CPU features appear to not be available or enabled due to whatever Gigabyte is doing in their BIOS. I compared RMClock results with a friend of mine with a P5B + E6400. The differences are notable.

So I got my P5B board today, and I'm fairly impressed, but there are some issues which I cannot deal with. Here's the page of the post (assuming this URL works...), explaining my experience with the P5B and the god-awful Realtek NIC:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...did=1908392&STARTPAGE=21&enterthread=y

That said, I went ahead and rebuilt the DS3 system (also cleaned dust out of the case, made sure there weren't any obvious traces scratched on the DS3 mainboard, applied different thermal paste this time (instead of using Intel's stock, using Arctic Silver 5), and cleared the CMOS via the jumper). I left ALL of the DS3 BIOS options for power save features and the like (C1E and all) enabled.

Lo and behold, RMClock began showing appropriate things in blue! Rebooting and toggling them in the BIOS also was reflected in RMClock later. So I'm left thinking I didn't load defaults when I upgraded from F4 to F5 to F6 (when/one of those, can't remember! ). We all know what that can do...

Now, EIST, TM1, TM2, and CxE are all blue. Core Clock fluxuates between 1600MHz and 2400MHz (depending on load), and the FID multiplier also fluxuates respectively between 6x and 9x.

Core Temp is 41C, but I have my case open. To compare this to the P5B, it's disheartening -- I was seeing 33-34C on the P4B. That's disturbing, and makes me wonder if the monitoring stuff on one of the boards simply isn't right (the P5B or the DS3). My external CPU and system temperature remained about the same on both boards (meaning no drastic changes there).

It's very unnerving that the core temperatures differ by such a large amount on the *same CPU* simply based on what motherboard you're using...

So now it's time to rebuilt the rest of the box (software-wise) and run FFXI or WoW for awhile to see if it'll crash with C1E enabled. I sure hope not. I really like my DS3. :-(

 

[tvdang7]

so judging from the AT post on kentsfield. the DS3 will support it, but it says something about revision 2 boards only. so does that mean current boards arnt going to support it?