Official Google Talk Thread

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Utter crap. Looks like it was programmed in VB by a high school kid. There was an article in the Times this week about how Google's wick of good will is running out. This is proof.
 

chuckywang

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
20,133
1
0
Originally posted by: dwell
Utter crap. Looks like it was programmed in VB by a high school kid. There was an article in the Times this week about how Google's wick of good will is running out. This is proof.

The GUI might look like crap to you, but underneath it all, it's really quite sophisticated and it doesn't use up many system resources.
 

haveblue

Banned
Aug 9, 2005
149
0
0
I just upgraded to the MSN Messenger 7.5 beta.. now THAT is "utter crap."
They just keep adding these useless features, and making it more and more bloated.. They make it look "nicer" every time.. but it's just junk.. now they've added "Voice Clips".. which are okay.. but it'll be just like "nudges".. people will annoy the hell out of you with them, until the novelty wears off on their part, or you disable them on your end.. It is cool that you just hold F2 and record, and it automaticly plays on their computer.. but that could definitely be a big security risk, since it doesn't ask their permission to play it.. Anyway, to me, Google Talk is much better..
 

I'll stick with Trillian. Works with services people actually use and with 1GB of RAM with at least 512M available at most times, who cares about system resources.
 

toekramp

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2001
8,426
2
0
Originally posted by: haveblue
If Google want an IM monopoly like they have a search engine monopoly, it won't. It's kind of a paradox really.. I see it this way:

If Google Talk includes ability to communicate with AIM, ICQ, MSN, etc. It will become just like Trillian or Gaim. It won't move into the mainstream, but will linger to the "enthusiast" community, again just like Trillian or Gaim. Look at MSN for example. Did it support ICQ or AIM? No, but it easily took over. If you look at it really, none of the major clients supported other clients. The multi-network clients all remain relatively unused, in comparison to the number of people that use single network clients. In order for Google Talk to dominate, it has to stay a single network, otherwise it will get lost in the midst of the other multinetwork clients. To stand out and be successful, it has to be a single, more powerful network.

However, the problem with this is, that it won't catch on. I think it's too late now for a single network to dominate, as so many people wouldn't give up their massive MSN contact lists to switch to Google. In order for Google to "take over" many people need to start using it. However, it's so little known that it would take another "generation" of instant messaging youth to convert. See, my theory is that messaging clients go in phases. When I was in grade 6 or so, I was first introduced to ICQ. Not soon after, MSN came along. The system was better for me, and soon the few contacts I had were also on MSN, so ICQ faded away. However, now it's too late for many of my contacts to switch over, they simply wouldn't give up all their contacts to chat with a few people over Google, while they could be doing it over MSN anyway, as most people wouldn't give up MSN right away, until a significant number switched to Google. What needs to happen, is for Google to be introduced first to that new generation, the ones who are new to instant messaging, and who don't HAVE a contact list yet. They need to be introduced to Google firstly. That's the way Google has to take over. I don't feel that Google can thwart MSN with the availible feature set. To the mass instant messaging market, the stupid features of MSN are what make it likeable. With a few added features Google could and surely will match MSN in this respect, however in its current state it's not customizable enough. The emo kids want to express themselves with display pictures, and x's in their nicknames. MSN lets them do that, so they won't ditch it. In order to attract that crowd, it would need to have MSN support, so people can keep in touch with their contacts who won't convert. But, if Google adds multi-network support, it will fail, like I mentioned before.

Google needs to match and improve upon the likable features of each client. Keep it's incredible VoIP. Add the webcam support from iChat. Add MSN's display pictures, and changable nicknames. Add file transfers. Those are the things that I see Google Talk needing. Google potentially has the power to take over, it just needs those minor improvements, and a few crusaders to lead the way. If a few of us switch to Google, it will force our close friends to switch to Google as well, lest they lose us from their contacts. They'll end up using two clients for a while, but as more and more join the "crusade" and give up the other clients, more and more will switch to using both Google and another client. Soon, enough will have switched to Google that it's useless to have another client anymore, because the main friends you talk to will be using Google, because their other main friends have switched. It's a pyramid basicly. It just takes a few to convert a city.

That's the way instant messaging works. Different areas use different clients. For example, my area is majority MSN. Very few people use anything else anymore. I for one, will be starting the local crusade to convert to Google. It's just so vastly superior. I know it's beta right now, but it has so much more potential than any other client now. Soon, I'll hope to convert enough of my close friends that it will force their friends to convert, and so on. My goal is to make Google mainstream, at least within my school, by the end of the school year. That will be enough to start, as the lower grades will be converted too, and they'll convert the grades below them, and so on, until it gets down to the new ones to instant messaging, where they'll start with Google, instead of another client.




^ My rant from another forum.. some of it doesn't make sense here, 'cause it's taken out of context.. but that's my general opinion on it.. Google Talk is better than MSN.. for me anyway. My friend earlier today was ranting about why would he bother switching to Talk, when everyone uses MSN.. I convinced him to have a conversation with my over Talk.. I went out.. came home two hours later and "http://talk.google.com" is in his MSN nickname. It's just plain better. Even the text. However, he was already using a gmail account on MSN.. Google doesn't need to make their client able to talk to the MSN network.. but they DO need to make non-gmail email accounts able to sign up/log in on Google Talk.. that way the masses from hotmail won't have to change their email address.. because the email address is really more important than what client they use..

Anyway, that's all for now.. haha

MSN has taken over haha, what?
 

haveblue

Banned
Aug 9, 2005
149
0
0
In my area it has.. virtually no one uses anything else.. Like I said, it's geographic.. Everyone in my area uses MSN, in another part of my province, IRC is still massively popular.. more so than an instant messaging client.. but it's still a combo of MSN and IRC.. ICQ _used_ to be popular.. but no one uses it anymore.. and I don't know ANYONE who uses AIM.. I know one person who uses Yahoo. Only one. So yes, in my area MSN has taken over.. I know it hasn't in the US, and other parts of Canada, and surely the rest of the world.. as far as people I've met, msn is easily the most popular..
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
7
81
My friends from school all use AIM, my friends from my old school all use MSN messenger. My older brother says his group uses Yahoo.

 
Aug 25, 2004
11,151
1
81
http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/08/26/google-talks-secret-mistresses/

(Disclaimer: this is an post on Dreamhost's weblog. Dreamhost is a web hosting company, so they pimp their own service a few times in the article. Yet it's a good read.)

Just about anybody reading this blog has probably heard about Google Talk (beta) already.

Nonetheless, let me recap for you. Google Talk is Google?s new foray into Instant Messaging and Voice over IP, using Jabber for the IM side and SIP for the VoIP.

Currently, Google Talk users can only IM and call other Google Talk users. Ha, just what the world needed, yet another IM/voice chat service.

Actually, this could be just what the world needed.

You see, although Google Talk only connects to itself today, Google is using open standards? which means it?d be pretty darn easy for them to open it up to talk with say, I dunno, DreamHost customers.

And actually, not only would it be pretty darn easy, Google?s even said that?s exactly their plan! Before the thing gets out of beta bobstires12@gmail.com should be able to IM bob@bobstires.com, and vice-versa.

They also mention they?re already working on VoIP interoperability with Earthlink?s upcoming free offeringas well as SIPphone.com. But more on that later?

Remember when AOL users could only email other AOL users?
And Prodigy users could only email other Prodigy users?
And Compuserve users could only email other Compuserve users?
All the online services of the day were like ?walled gardens? for their users to play with each other in complete security and comfort under the watchful eye of a responsible organization.

That sucked.

Email never became mainstream until the real Internet took off and provided a clear open standard for all these disparate systems to hook up. It took a while for all of the big providers to come on board though, because if everybody could talk to each other there?s less of an incentive to sign up for a big provider!

But as the Internet grew, not allowing Internet email (not to mention access), became so much of a liability that even mighty AOL was finally forced to open up. So now bobstires1234567@aol.com can email bob@bobstires.com without a second thought. And the world is a better place.

The IM and VoIP landscape as of August 22nd, 2005 looked a lot like the email landscape did on August 22nd, 1993. There?s AIM, MSN, and Yahoo!, for IM and none of them talk with each other. There?s Skype, Vonage, BroadVoice, and a number of other VoIP providers, and none of them talk to each other.

But wait.. haven?t you ever heard of Trillian?

Okay yes, there are some hacks out there right now that let you be on all three IM providers at once, by signing up for an account with each one. This is feasible because, unlike the email providers of old, all the IM services are free!

But there are problems with the way things are now. For one, good luck starting a competing IM system. For anybody to use it, you?ve got to be able to interface with the big three? and since they all have their own secret way of doing things, you?ll be constantly reverse engineering and hacking things together just to get basic communication going. Whooeee, and good luck supporting file transfers, chat rooms, video conferencing, smiley plug-ins, and whatever else is all the rage with the kiddies today!

Google?s Secret Mistress

The annoying (though excusable) thing is that there IS an open standard for IM that all the services COULD be using? she?s called Ms. Jabber, and you get to use her free with all our hosting accounts.

Ms. Jabber?s address looks exactly like an email address, which means you can run her on your own server and have complete control of your IM-ing destiny. Unfortunately, Ms. Jabber doesn?t speak the same language as the 99.999% of the world who uses AIM/MSN/YIM. Fortunately, people write little plug-ins for Ms. Jabber called ?transports? which let her speak French, Spanish, and German all at once, and thereby communicate with the big three IM services.

But Ms. Jabber keeps losing touch with them!

Why? Because, like Navajo code-talkers, AIM/MSN/YIM are always creating new languages to use, and when they do they feel no obligation to keep Ms. Jabber in the loop! I don?t blame them though? Ms. Jabber is the new girl on the block. When ICQ first showed up he had no choice but to come up with his own language, and then later MSN and Yahoo had to do the same because there was no way ICQ/AIM wanted to hear anything those bozos had to say!

And what do you mean VoIP providers don?t talk to each other? Haven?t you ever heard of telephone numbers?

It?s true, VoIP providers are forced into interoperability because they?re trying to break into an industry that?s already standardized. Vonage would have exactly no customers if you couldn?t call non-Vonage telephones with their service! Skype gets away with only allowing you to call other Skype customers because it?s free (and you can call real phone numbers too if you pay).

However, these providers are still creating artificial barriers to VoIP?s broader adoption because they don?t interoperate on the IP-level. Yeah, they can all talk to each other over POTS (plain old telephone system), but that?s not really the point. That?d be like if the old Compuserve allowed emailing AOL users? by just printing out your emails and snail mailing them over to AOL?s headquarters. Then charged you $30 a month extra for the convenience.

VoIP?s Secret Mistress

Her name is SIP, and the mainstream VoIP providers don?t want you to know about her.

SIP (Session Initiation Protocol) is basically the Jabber of VoIP. Big surprise, a SIP address looks just like an email address, and in theory you can connect to any other SIP address and do any sort of voice/video/text chatting (IM can use SIP too) for free (well, just the cost of bandwidth) over the Internet.

And, all the big VoIP providers (except for Skype) already use her. So, does that mean if you set up a SIP server and get a free SIP client (like maybe from Xten or SJphone) you could call Vonage phones for absolutely nothing?

Yes!

Er, actually? NO!

It turns out, if your Vonage phone number is 1-323-555-1212, you have a SIP address of 13235551212@sip.vonage.net! Or rather, you did. Apparently sometime last year they started hiding SIP from the outside world. So, even though she?s all set up and they in fact use her when making Vonage-to-Vonage calls, they just choose to block the rest of the Internet from her.

How intriguing!

What are they so ashamed of?

Beats me, but I think it?s a little bit of the old AOL mentality. As far as they can see, there?s really no money to be made in direct Internet-to-Internet calling? nobody pays for email or IM, and nobody pays for Skype-to-Skype, so ain?t nobody going to pay for SIP either.

And unlike the AOL of lore, they?ve got nothing else they can charge for besides telephone calls. The sooner the world starts using SIP instead of telephone numbers, the sooner Vonage has got to find a new business model.

So right now their thinking is probably along the lines of ?SIP who??

But? SIP has another lover, one who isn?t ashamed of her. They parade her around for the whole world to see, even shout her name from the top of their web site! They?re SIPphone.com, and they?re the opposite of Vonage.

I think they also plan to make their money on the SIP-to-POTS transition, but at least they?ve resigned themselves to the inevitability of a SIP phone world. When you sign up with SIPphone, you get a phone number in the 747 area code that is also a real-deal SIP address @sipphone.com, totally for free. Like Vonage, they also sell VoIP routers so you can use a regular telephone with your new flame.

So, why hasn?t anybody heard of them? Besides the lack of cool orange TV ads, I think it?s because they don?t offer an unlimited domestic calling plan, and you can only get phone numbers in the 747 area code. C?mon guys, get on the ball! We?re pulling for you over here!

SIP has some other boyfriends too:

There?s Stanaphone.com, who?s sort of like the worst of Vonage and SIPphone put together? you can only get a 517 area code phone number, there are no unlimited domestic calling plans, AND they seem to block SIP from the rest of the world. But they do have the best looking web site.

There?s also FreeWorldDialup.com who is a totally free SIP-only provider. Like some sort of deadbeat hippy, FWD can?t make calls to the regular POTS, but hey, ten years from now nobody will need to, yeah?

There are also some funny characters like KallFree.com who will provide a disguise for SIP when she goes out in public. KallFree.com will map a real POTS phone number (in this case a 360 number) to SIP (if she?s not locked up by Vonage or Stanaphone).
But you can?t call out with it.
Which I guess is useful for mutes.

Finally there?s Skype, who actually made their own pretty cool P2P VoIP implementation (without SIP!), allow you to get lots of area code phone numbers, and are by far the biggest VoIP provider in the world. However, without the loving tenderness of SIP, I think they?re headed for a cold and lonely demise.

But WAIT? just two days ago Skype announced they were creating the ?SkypeNet API?! That is, they are committed to opening up their protocol to the world. Theoretically this would allow somebody to make a SIP-to-Skype service (and vice-versa), which hopefully won?t be as flakey as some of the Jabber transports we know and love.

?

But WAIT again? that?s kind of WEIRD how Skype announced the opening of their protocol so recently, no? I wonder if it could have anything to do with, I dunno, GOOGLE TALK?!

Methinks it might.

Skype?s no Google, and even though as of Monday Google had exactly no VoIP or IM customers, I don?t think anybody would be too surprised if they had more than 20% of the market by August 22nd, 2006.

And since Google?s making the right move (ironically also the easy move, because by using the pre-existing open standards they probably saved themselves butt-loads of work) they?re forcing the rest of the industry to think long and hard if they should fight to keep their customers locked inside their ?walled gardens,? or whether they should open the doors and get to work making their gardens the best on the Internet.

There are already rumors that Yahoo! is working on Jabber-fying their IM system. It makes sense that they?d be the next to do it, since they have the second smallest market share (after Google). Next will probably be Microsoft, and finally AOL; last as usual because they?ve got the most to lose. But they?ll switch over (or at least make an ultra-reliable Jabber-to-AIM gateway) eventually, or risk losing all those great young eyeballs.

The same thing will happen with VoIP, but I think even faster. The VoIP market is still much tinier than the IM market, and much less mature. The providers are all (except for Skype, who?s opening their API) already in bed with SIP and Google will probably grow pretty quickly to be the #2 provider (after Skype).

I?m 100% certain that by August 22nd, 2015, the entire world will be using SIP addresses for entirely free wireless phone calls. And if I?m wrong, I swear to God I?ll deny the whole thing.

In summary, all of this is a roundabout way of saying, DreamHost is going to start working on providing SIP service @yourowndomain.com. I can?t give you any sort of timeline, but if we don?t do it soon, we?ll do it later. In a few years a web host without SIP and Jabber support will be as rare as a web host today without email support.

Just so that for $100/year you can have a phone number like bob@bobstires.com instead of bobstires12@gmail.com!
 

haveblue

Banned
Aug 9, 2005
149
0
0
If you run the Google Talk installer, and copy over the googletalk.exe file from Program Files\Google\Google Talk, or wherever you installed it, and paste it into a USB flash drive, or similar device, it will still run.. as far as I can find, there's no other files.. and it will still run with just that one file, no need to install.. So, for those of you who have a work or school that blocks MSN or your other clients.. there's another plus for Google Talk
 
Aug 25, 2004
11,151
1
81
Originally posted by: haveblue
If you run the Google Talk installer, and copy over the googletalk.exe file from Program Files\Google\Google Talk, or wherever you installed it, and paste it into a USB flash drive, or similar device, it will still run.. as far as I can find, there's no other files.. and it will still run with just that one file, no need to install.. So, for those of you who have a work or school that blocks MSN or your other clients.. there's another plus for Google Talk

thanks for the tip! didn't realize Google Talk was a single 2.1MB executable... that's just perfect for thumb drives
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
Originally posted by: George P Burdell
Originally posted by: haveblue
If you run the Google Talk installer, and copy over the googletalk.exe file from Program Files\Google\Google Talk, or wherever you installed it, and paste it into a USB flash drive, or similar device, it will still run.. as far as I can find, there's no other files.. and it will still run with just that one file, no need to install.. So, for those of you who have a work or school that blocks MSN or your other clients.. there's another plus for Google Talk

thanks for the tip! didn't realize Google Talk was a single 2.1MB executable... that's just perfect for thumb drives

What's the big deal though? Why bother? A 2.1 MB download takes no time, and the only point of having google talk is if you have internet anyways... It's sort of like writing forums.anandtech.com on a piece of paper
 

haveblue

Banned
Aug 9, 2005
149
0
0
Actually, the installer is only 900k, so it'd fit on a floppy.. but if you can't INSTALL on your computer at work or school, that's where it's useful. Or if your firewall blocks downloading a .exe..
 

gwlam12

Diamond Member
Apr 4, 2001
6,946
1
71
hope nobody minds. i added all of u. it should be ATOT Talk and not Google Talk. hah.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |