Official ICS & Galaxy Nexus Launch Thread

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tdawg

Platinum Member
May 18, 2001
2,215
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So I thought I wanted an android phone, but it stutters and has bugs etc? But I don't really want an iPhone either. Have an ipod touch and kinda tired of it.. So maybe I should just stick to my dumb phone? I'm tired of hearing about all these problems; why can't they just make me a perfect product!

If you're not willing to give Android a try, don't overlook Windows Phone 7. Super smooth, intuitive UI and the relative lack of apps probably won't bother you coming from a dumb phone.
 

Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
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As it turns out, it's only Engadget who has that update.

I guess I will wait until final reviews come out, as I said I would, but... what's the guarantee it'll be different? Take Engadget's words for it?

No. TIMN is the only article depicting Nexus performance as laggy and unresponsive and it contradicts all the other ones. The point is that the TIMN article was referred to as the only truth out there. Not only was it used to portrait G Nexus as a shitty phone, it was used as a platform to fire all the salvos at all things Android, all over again, including video comparisons that have as much to do with the Galaxy Nexus as the Geo Metro has with the Skyline GT-R.


When the iphone4 first came out, I was at a downtown St. Louis apartment with my friend Joe, biggest Apple fan I know. His mom is rather high up in the AT&T hierarchy so he had the phone at the same time reviews were popping out.

People were screaming "antennagate" while I sat on his couch, trying to
reproduce the issue and failing. Both of us, using 4 hands, simply could not reproduce the issue. While the web didn't stop at it and look at it for what it really is, they jumped it and ran with it, possibly smoked crystal meth to extrapolate the issue and went on stupid rants left and right.

There simply isn't enough Anandtech's in this world to combat all the BGR's.
And people, while lying to others, need to figure out if they are lying to themselves too. If their concern with a particular platform is removed, are they going to give it a fair chance or just fabricate new ones to keep trolling.

Based on what's already published about the G Nexus and ICS, including this piece: http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/hardware-accel.html I have no reason to value TIMN's angle more over others. Not unless I want to hate on the G Nexus from the sidelines.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
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No. TIMN is the only article depicting Nexus performance as laggy and unresponsive and it contradicts all the other ones. The point is that the TIMN article was referred to as the only truth out there. Not only was it used to portrait G Nexus as a shitty phone, it was used as a platform to fire all the salvos at all things Android, all over again, including video comparisons that have as much to do with the Galaxy Nexus as the Geo Metro has with the Skyline GT-R.

No, the point is that regardless of what TIMN said, or even if they did not say anything, there are rough edges with ICS performance on the Galaxy Nexus, and even Engadget noted it until they had that update.

Do I really have to pull all of the articles about the Galaxy Nexus just to prove a point that the demo unit had its bugs and problems?

http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/19/in...axy-nexus-and-ice-cream-sandwich-android-4-0/

What it’s not — at least not yet — is flawless. There was a crash here and there, and a tense moment or two when a slider just… wouldn’t.. work. Google was quick to note that the build I was seeing was a relatively old one — but even if it weren’t, they still have weeks to stomp out the lingering bugs for the initial release, and months before anyone really expects Ice Cream Sandwich to trickle out onto a wide array of devices. They’ll fix it up right.

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_nexus_hands_on-review-663p3.php

The Galaxy Nexus is a fast device but Android 4.0 comes with various transition effects that seem to artificially slow down the perceivable speed at which the menus open and close. We did encounter a lot of hiccups but that's what you get for messing around with pre-release software.

TIMN particularly went into performance, or they specifically wrote "lag", but if other tech writers nitpicked, they would have found the same thing, or wrote more than a single sentence about it.

What happened to the iPhone is quite irrelevant to this in my opinions. It's a fact that current Android builds (anything not ICS) have a problem with lag and unresponsiveness for some people. Myself included.

It's a problem that "pre-release" build of ICS has, as Google claimed, and I'm just noting it, hoping that it'll get fixed in the final release. That's all. It has nothing to do with making Android look worse than it is, unless responsiveness and smoothness is the deciding factor.

But I can assure you that it's not. It's just that I'm spoiled and I want perfection.
 
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Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
2,331
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Oh, so you know that if other other tech writers nitpicked they would have found it to be laggy and unresponsive.

Oh ok then. I'm glad you have the phone in front of you so you can tell who's wight and who's wrong.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
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runaway, you keep mentioning the lag but for some reason don't seem to understand Engadget answers your concerns:

Update: turns out our demo phone was a bit of an early build; we touched another model later in the day, and our response gripes were gone. Perfectly responsive.

It says it right there, I don't know what else to tell you.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
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No, I don't know that if other tech writers nitpicked, they would have found it to be laggy or unresponsive. That's something they know better than I do.

But, unless you are intentionally ignoring their words, TechCrunch did mention a slider not working, and GSMArena did mention hiccups. Common sense hint at at least "unresponsive".

They actually tried to word it in a way that would describe their experience the best way possible. To sum up, there are issues. Be it lag, crash, unresponsiveness, hiccup, or whatever it is, there are issues.

And be it "pre-release" software or not, there are... just issues with those display units. Now what will happen when they ship? I honestly don't know. But hypothetically, just maybe, what if those "issues" persist? Like they did for previous Android builds?

And yes, I did read Engadget's update. Well, great. But it's only Engadget, and the old staffs left for better or worse. I'm more skeptical with Engadget's assertions as of lately. So I'm 50/50.

Again, I'm not saying Android sucks or anything of the sort. I'm seeing and reading issues, and I want to see them get fixed, not to "read" about them getting fixed, you know what I mean?
 

Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
2,331
16
81
Lag is flavor of the day, tomorrow it will be size, cheap plastic, battery life, poor app and game selection...

I doubt your agenda. In the locked thread, few who claimed to be willing to give Android a fair chance got exposed. After few posts, same folks who claimed to use Android or would be willing to consider it, all of a sudden started saying Android is shit and doesn't deserve a spot on this planet or something like that.

Do we really want to believe that if G Nexus is performing well, it will actually be recognized as such? No, I don't think so.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76

Well yeah, but I was hoping on a software level. I want to be able to utilize more of that hardware for something else. Like playing back Flash, for instance.

Or if they can make those chips slower but consume less power, then at least Android will be able to utilize them efficiently and get more battery life.

To me, it's both battery life and performance, and I refuse to give up either. I guess you can call me greedy, but my standards are high, and that's partly why the feeble battery life of the iPhone 4S really disappointed me despite the added performance (which is not visible at all unless it's a game).

In the end, it's still that I hope Android can improve more upon what matters now instead of adding more features. For instance, NFC may seem cool, but realistically, I'm not seeing it in wide use until a few years later, and by that time, the Galaxy Nexus would already be ancient in light of ARM-Cortex AX devices.

Lag is flavor of the day, tomorrow it will be size, cheap plastic, battery life, poor app and game selection...

I doubt your agenda. In the locked thread, few who claimed to be willing to give Android a fair chance got exposed. After few posts, same folks who claimed to use Android or would be willing to consider it, all of a sudden started saying Android is shit and doesn't deserve a spot on this planet or something like that.

Do we really want to believe that if G Nexus is performing well, it will actually be recognized as such? No, I don't think so.

It's not all about a religious OS political war. I can't blame you for thinking that way considering how things usually turn out in here regarding the same subject matter, but for better or worse, I know there are people who nitpick about an OS because they want to see it improved, not to bash it.

I won't deny that I don't even consider the Galaxy Nexus right now. To be frank, I don't even care about it. But I do care about ICS and what improvements it can bring. It just so happens that the Galaxy Nexus is the device to run it. If the Galaxy Nexus could run it smooth, lag-free, and totally responsive, would I consider it? Still no. I'll be waiting for the next batch of Android devices that come in Q1 2012, which have better hardware, no Pentile, and with none of the bugs of today.

Just because I don't consider the G Nexus doesn't mean I dislike Android as a whole.
 
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Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
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Well yeah, but I was hoping on a software level. I want to be able to utilize more of that hardware for something else. Like playing back Flash, for instance.

Or if they can make those chips slower but consume less power, then at least Android will be able to utilize them efficiently and get more battery life.

To me, it's both battery life and performance, and I refuse to give up either. I guess you can call me greedy, but my standards are high, and that's partly why the feeble battery life of the iPhone 4S really disappointed me despite the added performance (which is not visible at all unless it's a game).

In the end, it's still that I hope Android can improve more upon what matters now instead of adding more features. For instance, NFC may seem cool, but realistically, I'm not seeing it in wide use until a few years later, and by that time, the Galaxy Nexus would already be ancient in light of ARM-Cortex AX devices.

As has been said many times, the Galaxy Nexus is a developer phone. Developer phones aren't meant to be bleeding edge. They are basically the reference platform for the OS (in this case, Ice Cream Sandwich). And for NFC to take off and become common use in a few years, it has to first start from somewhere, and that's what Google is trying to do. You can't snap your fingers and everybody suddenly has an NFC capable phone.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
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As has been said many times, the Galaxy Nexus is a developer phone. Developer phones aren't meant to be bleeding edge. They are basically the reference platform for the OS (in this case, Ice Cream Sandwich). And for NFC to take off and become common use in a few years, it has to first start from somewhere, and that's what Google is trying to do. You can't snap your fingers and everybody suddenly has an NFC capable phone.

While developer phones aren't meant to be bleeding edge, they are often used as a reference for performance metrics, no? Like the baseline of what can be expected out of a completely stock experience?

Unless I'm missing something there, that's usually what developer reference means to me.

Also I think what NFC needs is not more phones that run it, but more applications for it. Like posters , like maps and landmark information, like brochures, and all that kind of thing. It needs contents, not phones. In that regard, if Google really wanted to push the technology, I think they should have a campaign to NFC-ize contents all across a certain area, and spread it all around so that phones with NFC can utilize the chip for something other than bumping into each other to share cat video clips, which is arguably not that useful unless the other person also has an NFC phone that runs ICS.

But they haven't done anything. In the end, I get a feeling they just included NFC to say that they have something new rather than trying to push the technology. It's evident that after the Nexus S, there still isn't many, if any, manufacturer who wants to jump on the train.
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
After few posts, same folks who claimed to use Android or would be willing to consider it, all of a sudden started saying Android is shit and doesn't deserve a spot on this planet or something like that.
Oh yeah. A few people really outed themselves. Wonder if they'll pop back into this forum after that.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
While developer phones aren't meant to be bleeding edge, they are often used as a reference for performance metrics, no? Like the baseline of what can be expected out of a completely stock experience?

Unless I'm missing something there, that's usually what developer reference means to me.

Also I think what NFC needs is not more phones that run it, but more applications for it. Like posters , like maps and landmark information, like brochures, and all that kind of thing. It needs contents, not phones. In that regard, if Google really wanted to push the technology, I think they should have a campaign to NFC-ize contents all across a certain area, and spread it all around so that phones with NFC can utilize the chip for something other than bumping into each other to share cat video clips, which is arguably not that useful unless the other person also has an NFC phone that runs ICS.

But they haven't done anything. In the end, I get a feeling they just included NFC to say that they have something new rather than trying to push the technology. It's evident that after the Nexus S, there still isn't many, if any, manufacturer who wants to jump on the train.



You did watch the ICS presentation right (or at least read about it?)? It's a lot more than sharing Youtube videos. You can share apps in a much more convenient, easy way. You can share directions. You can share contacts. Heck, there is no limit on what you can share because they've given app developers access to it.

I agree it would be neat to be able to swipe your phone at say the zoo and the map downloads to your phone, but that's not Google's job. It's the app developers commissioned by the zoo that need to do that.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76


You did watch the ICS presentation right (or at least read about it?)? It's a lot more than sharing Youtube videos. You can share apps in a much more convenient, easy way. You can share directions. You can share contacts. Heck, there is no limit on what you can share because they've given app developers access to it.

I agree it would be neat to be able to swipe your phone at say the zoo and the map downloads to your phone, but that's not Google's job. It's the app developers commissioned by the zoo that need to do that.

Well, I did. But the problem, as I stated with one example, was that the sharing needed two devices with NFC both running ICS. At this point, it's just the G Nexus, Nexus S 4G (unofficial) and so on... Plus I can just shoot the address, contact, or anything of the sort via email or text to my pal, so NFC is still not that useful. Or at least it doesn't do anything that hasn't been done before.

As for the Zoo, there is really no incentive for them to hire a developer to include such a thing at this point. They just don't get rewarded for it. NFC means more convenient information for their customers, but what do they gain from it?

That's the thing. Google needs to organize a campaign to adopt NFC, and I don't think they want to go through the hassle right now.
 

Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
2,331
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Fair enough.

We can continue to waste key strokes, Android and iOS are simply too different to apply same standards. It's impossible for either platform to do things the same way, in same fashion.

iOS is a mother cooking for it's children, Android is a cook in a restaurant.
Mother knows exactly what children like and can even make them eat something even if they don't want to. Personally, I moved out a long time ago. Do I miss mom's cooking? Yeah, once in a while.

Android's cooking is different, need to pay premium to get the best meal and it can't know what the restaurant customers prefer and get the spices just right.

In order to accommodate for all the devices out there, Android simply can't be as efficient as iOS. They can close the gap but it will never be same, new devices that require that compromise will keep popping out.

That's why you see Android users so focused on Android hardware, it simply needs top notch hardware to compensate for the compromises made to allow the not so hot devices to run it as well.

iOS has few devices to accommodate for yet still can't accommodate for the older ones as they simply get overrun by age. The issue is magnified in Android, latest iOS meet the high standard because they are carefully picked, Android has Huawei's and ZTE's to account for. The nexus device progression is remotely similar to the iphone but the rest, not so much.

~320 Android devices vs. 8-9 iOS devices, applying same standards won't work ever.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
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Well, I did. But the problem, as I stated with one example, was that the sharing needed two devices with NFC both running ICS. At this point, it's just the G Nexus, Nexus S 4G (unofficial) and so on... Plus I can just shoot the address, contact, or anything of the sort via email or text to my pal, so NFC is still not that useful. Or at least it doesn't do anything that hasn't been done before.

As for the Zoo, there is really no incentive for them to hire a developer to include such a thing at this point. They just don't get rewarded for it. NFC means more convenient information for their customers, but what do they gain from it?

That's the thing. Google needs to organize a campaign to adopt NFC, and I don't think they want to go through the hassle right now.

It was only just announced, again how do you expect it to gain widespread use? Overnight? It's going to be implemented in more and more phones until it's a common sight, like front facing cameras.

If I'm looking at a destination I've just searched for in Google Maps, instead of sending a text/email sharing it with my friend, I would much rather just tap phones and be done with it. It greatly simplifies the process. This is especially the case if I'm using an app and a friend thinks it's cool and wants to know how to get it. Before NFC I have to quit the app (aka stop the fun) and then send him a link. With NFC I can tap phones and continue using the app as I was. It certainly promises to add a lot of convenience to information sharing. I'm sure we'll see developers think of very creative uses for it as well.

Plenty of parks now have their own mobile apps that include things like park maps and other info you used to have to carry around on paper. If they're smart they'll leverage smartphones and save some money from printing everything on paper that inevitably will just be thrown away.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,580
146
The SGS2 had similar issues with the pre-release builds, as mentioned by Anand and Brian when they first tried it out back in march? or so.

If you read their extensive review, as well as others (with the pre-US build), those issues were, and remain, completely non-existent with the release devices.

The fact of the matter, is that Apple vs Android, especially in this context, is simply a dumb argument. Apple is much, much better, generally, at releasing something when it is completely ready. They have no competition within iOS, so they aren't competing against 20 or so separate devices with different hardware running the some OS, every 6 months or so.

They are as close to the Standard Oil model of the phone and tech industry as you will get (considering that Samsung no longer makes most of the guts in Apple devices). It makes them more expensive, of course, but the ability to exact control over so many levels of production makes for a more fluid and optimized experience.

And as technology improves from month to month, you simply have to expect more hiccups. There are other factors that lead to this, of course, but you can't really expect a PC game to be released without a collection of bugs and hardware issues today--due to increasing scales of complexity.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
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...~320 Android devices vs. 8-9 iOS devices, applying same standards won't work ever.

Well, I do realize that, which is why I'm not directly comparing Android and iOS feature-by-feature or App Store vs Marketplace or anything like that. Those are the standards... and as you put it, the same thing wouldn't apply.

However, the way I see it, optimization is just a single standard, and I think they can at least attempt to fix it, unless that is too much to ask.

I actually believe that Android can do that, and I have faith that it's doable. It's not like I'm asking for Android to be like iOS (I would dislike that, actually), I'm merely asking for more optimizations on top of what is offered.

The way I see it, Google engineers do actually try to do it, but for some bizarre reason, they still haven't achieved it yet.

It was only just announced, again how do you expect it to gain widespread use? Overnight? It's going to be implemented in more and more phones until it's a common sight, like front facing cameras.

Well, consider front facing camera. Apple included it in their devices just a year ago, and now it's widely used. That's because they launch ad campaigns, they push developers, and they even develop a new standard for it.

You don't see the same sort of push from Google.

But again, it's not really about iOS vs Android here (sorry, I have to get this out of the way first), but more about what Google has done to NFC to really push the technology forward. The way I see it, they just threw it in there, made it do something, and then hope that developers would develop APIs or find some use for it. That's not how it should work. If they really want to push it, they should make a standard, like... Google NFC, for instance, and they should push it through to the end.

That's how I feel about it.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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Yeah. Facetime wasn't anything new or revolutionary. People talked about it on their EVO and stuff, but honestly, front facing cameras have been around forever. I had it on my N82, and it was on other older N-series phones too. So really there's no point of making fun of either Google or Android because they were both late to the game with video chat.

Yet it seems Facetime got far more reception in the world, and Skype barely works on devices. For example my gf and I were skyping, and it worked on my Nexus S, iPod Touch and my MacBook, but it never worked on her Incredible 2. Why? I don't know... The whole front facing camera is just half assed on Android. Not every device can do the Video talk on Gchat either.

I guess the same applies for NFC. Not many phones have it. And as much as we like to hype up NFC and talk about how useful it is, is it REALLY that useful? You really have to push the technology and build on it for widespread adoption.

Certain things were easy to push like Google Maps w/ navigation. Everyone has a 2.x device at least and is able to use it. But Google Video Chat? It's not everywhere. Apple was able to push out Facetime and make it work across their iOS devices easily. They pushed it out for Mac, and basically unified the entire OSX/iOS platform. I'm not sure what Google can do here. I think they should come out with something similar with iMessage. Maybe integrate Google+ Messenger with SMS/MMS. However, it seems like we're still worlds behind other messengers like Whatsapp and Kakaotalk.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
It's not that. With regards to video chat, and front-facing camera, Apple actually dedicates the resource to make a new standard for it, and they actually pushed developers to making it a widespread thing. On top of that, they went out and advertised many times a day on many television channels in many countries that the device has that feature and it should be used.

But with NFC, you don't see it appear in Android ads, nor do you see Google pushing a new standard set of APIs to make it easier for developers to adopt it. So nobody knows about it (aside from techies). Developers get thrown the hardware and some barebone APIs to start their APIs on top of, but that doesn't make the process any easier, nor does it make adoption any faster.

I guess it all comes down to marketing and getting more mindshare, but in that respect, I think Android should have better ad designs. All I see in Android ads lately are just... dual-core processors, how fast it is, how fast the network is, how fast the keyboard is, and how new the OS is, and that's it.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
I wanted to add a Poll to this thread to see how many are going to buy the GNex, but I couldn't see how to do it editting my op. Not sure if possible.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,235
117
116
It was only just announced, again how do you expect it to gain widespread use? Overnight? It's going to be implemented in more and more phones until it's a common sight, like front facing cameras.

If I'm looking at a destination I've just searched for in Google Maps, instead of sending a text/email sharing it with my friend, I would much rather just tap phones and be done with it. It greatly simplifies the process. This is especially the case if I'm using an app and a friend thinks it's cool and wants to know how to get it. Before NFC I have to quit the app (aka stop the fun) and then send him a link. With NFC I can tap phones and continue using the app as I was. It certainly promises to add a lot of convenience to information sharing. I'm sure we'll see developers think of very creative uses for it as well.

Plenty of parks now have their own mobile apps that include things like park maps and other info you used to have to carry around on paper. If they're smart they'll leverage smartphones and save some money from printing everything on paper that inevitably will just be thrown away.

I think this sounds pretty cool: http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/21/brandtable-concept-shows-nfc-at-the-food-court/

KT
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,554
2
76
It's a problem that "pre-release" build of ICS has, as Google claimed, and I'm just noting it, hoping that it'll get fixed in the final release.

you mean like we hoped they would fix it with Froyo?
and how we hoped they would fix it with Gingerbread?

that even the nothing-but-text menus (settings) can't render at 60fps is what kills me.

I think some of that can be fixed by the carrier. My friend's OG Droid's menus scroll butter smooth. My rooted and rom'd one (same phone) doesn't. But regardless, it's silly they can't GPU accelerate those parts of the phone. If they haven't done it thus far, I'm not expecting they will with ICS>
 
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