**OFFICIAL** Kerry/Bush Debate Thread: 2nd Debate to be 'Town-Hall' Style

[DealMonkey]

The faces of frustration . . .

 

[exdeath]

I didn't even watch the debate.

I do know that I don't want some tax raising, gun grabbing, back stabbing, smooth talking, government empowering communist as our president, who would then turn around and blame video games on world violence while letting criminals (or terrorists) get off with a week of psych treatment to make them a better person and giving blow jobs to Kim Long Dong or anyone else that needs to be eliminated.

 

[lordtyranus]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

How is that odd? Obviously no sane human is going to like or agree with every decision that emerges from the Supreme Court. What's odd is that you would, as you did in that thread, paint them as partisan liberals, when that couldn't be much further from the truth.

The libs were painting the court as partisan conservatives in Bush's pocket 4 years ago.

I'd submit the Court's holding in Bush v. Gore was made for partisan reasons, rather than on the merits. I suggest you read the article in the current Vanity Fair on the subject. It's available here: Part 1 Part 2

There's 2 problems I have with this:

A. No matter which way the Court ruled, the opposite side (as you have just shown) would have claimed partisanship. They were caught between a rock and a hard place.
B. If they were partisan for Bush, why would the kick Nader off the Oregon ballot? I stated the same in the other thread with no response.

Was the decision made for partisan reasons? It's quite clear from the article that there was partisanship for both sides. It just happened that one outnumbered the other.

I feel no sympathy for Gore due to the way he ran his campaign.

 

[Garuda]

Bush needs to stop making that fscking monkey face. What the hell is wrong with him. I used to debate in high school, and even the dumbest n00b debaters carried themselves better than Bush did last night.

BTW: Does anyone have figures on how many viewers watched? God I hope it's on the lower end.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The faces of frustration . . .

vs.

Substance - In his own words...

CsG

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

It's pretty sad how someone as intelligent as CAD falls into the Republican smear campaign of taking John Kerry's quotes completely out of context and using them against him. His position has been clear and consistent and he's stuck with it ever since he made it. Don't believe me, go look at the transcripts, he's been consistent.

It's ok, CAD well never cede that Bush did poorly in that debate last night. His partisanship won't allow him to do so, it's understandable.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
It's pretty sad how someone as intelligent as CAD falls into the Republican smear campaign of taking John Kerry's quotes completely out of context and using them against him. His position has been clear and consistent and he's stuck with it ever since he made it. Don't believe me, go look at the transcripts, he's been consistent.

It's ok, CAD well never cede that Bush did poorly in that debate last night. His partisanship won't allow him to do so, it's understandable.

Umm...no actually kerry has been anything but consistent. Keep believe he has though if it helps you sleep at night.
Again, keep in mind that while kerry may have "won" according to those who ignore substance - he definitely did not win when it came to substance. Just because kerry keeps claiming to have a plan - doesn't mean he actually has one or spells one out. Just empty rhetoric.

Now sure, the left will stand in their circle over last night but the reality is that kerry proved once again that he shifts with the wind. Only the most partisan of the bush haters will buy into kerry's "I've had one consistent...blah blah blah" BS -the rest will realize he's switched.

CsG

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: exdeath
I didn't even watch the debate.

I do know that I don't want some tax raising, gun grabbing, back stabbing, smooth talking, government empowering communist as our president, who would then turn around and blame video games on world violence while letting criminals (or terrorists) get off with a week of psych treatment to make them a better person and giving blow jobs to Kim Long Dong or anyone else that needs to be eliminated.

Lucky for you that the Dub's buddy Vladimir isn't in charge.:laugh:

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
It's pretty sad how someone as intelligent as CAD falls into the Republican smear campaign of taking John Kerry's quotes completely out of context and using them against him. His position has been clear and consistent and he's stuck with it ever since he made it. Don't believe me, go look at the transcripts, he's been consistent.

It's ok, CAD well never cede that Bush did poorly in that debate last night. His partisanship won't allow him to do so, it's understandable.

Umm...no actually kerry has been anything but consistent. Keep believe he has though if it helps you sleep at night.
Again, keep in mind that while kerry may have "won" according to those who ignore substance - he definitely did not win when it came to substance. Just because kerry keeps claiming to have a plan - doesn't mean he actually has one or spells one out. Just empty rhetoric.

Now sure, the left will stand in their circle over last night but the reality is that kerry proved once again that he shifts with the wind. Only the most partisan of the bush haters will buy into kerry's "I've had one consistent...blah blah blah" BS -the rest will realize he's switched.

CsG

Wait a minute, you're saying bush had SUBSTANCE? BAHAHAHAHA Put down the kool-aid, CAD! Seriously, stop parrotting RNC talking points. Bush basically memorized 5 or 6 things to talk about and used that as his answer for almost all the questions (i.e. 'kerry changes his mind too often', 'we have strong allies who are with us in iraq', 'we will win in the war in iraq', etc.). EVERY SINGLE ANSWER. Kerry had whole laundry list of grievances against the president and articulated well why Bush has been a horrible failure. The only response bush could come up with was insinuating that he was a flip flopper. One of the best responses that kerry had against bush's flip flopping charge was when he said something like 'i mispoke when i said that. However, the president made the wrong choice. Which is worse?'.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
It's pretty sad how someone as intelligent as CAD falls into the Republican smear campaign of taking John Kerry's quotes completely out of context and using them against him. His position has been clear and consistent and he's stuck with it ever since he made it. Don't believe me, go look at the transcripts, he's been consistent.

It's ok, CAD well never cede that Bush did poorly in that debate last night. His partisanship won't allow him to do so, it's understandable.

Umm...no actually kerry has been anything but consistent. Keep believe he has though if it helps you sleep at night.
Again, keep in mind that while kerry may have "won" according to those who ignore substance - he definitely did not win when it came to substance. Just because kerry keeps claiming to have a plan - doesn't mean he actually has one or spells one out. Just empty rhetoric.

Now sure, the left will stand in their circle over last night but the reality is that kerry proved once again that he shifts with the wind. Only the most partisan of the bush haters will buy into kerry's "I've had one consistent...blah blah blah" BS -the rest will realize he's switched.

CsG

Wait a minute, you're saying bush had SUBSTANCE? BAHAHAHAHA Put down the kool-aid, CAD! Seriously, stop parrotting RNC talking points. Bush basically memorized 5 or 6 things to talk about and used that as his answer for almost all the questions (i.e. 'kerry changes his mind too often', 'we have strong allies who are with us in iraq', 'we will win in the war in iraq', etc.). EVERY SINGLE ANSWER. Kerry had whole laundry list of grievances against the president and articulated well why Bush has been a horrible failure. The only response bush could come up with was insinuating that he was a flip flopper. One of the best responses that kerry had against bush's flip flopping charge was when he said something like 'i mispoke when i said that. However, the president made the wrong choice. Which is worse?'.

Yeah, the debates were full of rhetoric but for you or the other leftists to claim that kerry actually laid out a plan or "destroyed" Bush is absolutely asinine. Kerry most definitely has shifted on more than one issue - the main one being Iraq. If you actually paid attention to the debates - you'll see that Bush actually stayed on the questions where as kerry wandered. Are you saying the questions were bad if Bush used the same types of answers? Seems to me that the points he brought up were relevant to the discussion - despite how many times he had to repeat the answers.
Face it - you are all overblowing this supposed "win" by kerry. Sure, if you ignore substance(ie the actual questions and pertinent answers) kerry probably did destroy Bush in a liberal's mind.

CsG

 

[chess9]

This from Merriam-Webster on "forciferous":

1. forcefully
2. foresightful
3. philosophers'
4. philosophers
5. forestries
6. firestorms
7. force-feeds
8. philosophizer
9. foresters
10. fluorographies

No mention of vociferous.

Oh, well, Bush has yet another unabashed supporter who will do and say anything to make us think Bush has an IQ greater than the square root of a negative one.

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Garuda:

Good points, all.

The sad thing for Bush here is this debate was to be his big moment. His staff argued forcefully for this foreign policy/war debate to be the first one. If this is his best, he is in deep SH*T.

God forbid what Bush is going to come up with when he has to land on his feet during a debate on domestic policy.

And then there is the CONFIDENCE question. Bush was seriously owned last night. He will read and hear about-in triplicate at least-the comments regarding his many blunders. Will he get better or is Bush an emotionally weak man who will shrink like a violet in the noon day sun? He didn't look like a man who can take the heat.

Not that Kerry is all that exciting either, but at least his COMPETENCE is not at issue. Sheezh, political parties have so many patent death wishes....

-Robert

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: chess9


Not that Kerry is all that exciting either, but at least his COMPETENCE is not at issue. Sheezh, political parties have so many patent death wishes....

-Robert

Do you seriously entertain the thought that Rove is going to let all of JK inaccuracies in the debate last night slide? Bwa hahaha. It was soundbite heaven.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The faces of frustration . . .

vs.

Substance - In his own words...

CsG

Oooh lookie, the GOP can spin using out-of-context clips just as well as the dems. You go, girl.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The faces of frustration . . .

vs.

Substance - In his own words...

CsG

Oooh lookie, the GOP can spin using out-of-context clips just as well as the dems. You go, girl.

It's better than that oh so wonderful little clip the DNC put out.

But anyway - it's not out of context. Kerry is trying to claim he has had one position - he hasn't. His own words are his downfall.

CsG

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

This debate was supposed to be Bush's strong suit. I'd be very scared if I were a Bush strategist right now because if Kerry can deliver what he did last night Bush is in real trouble. Remember, this country wants change and most believe we are on the wrong track. If this president let's John Kerry paint his position as "more of the same" you can call this one over by the time the debates are done. The flip-flop term has already worn out its effectiveness, people have heard it a million times now, and if that is all Bush can say in the coming debates then he is done for.

 

[chess9]

Ozoned:

You have confused competency with accuracy.

I do not believe Bush is mentally or emotionally competent to lead this nation. Of course, that's why Cheney's been doing it, but perhaps we shouldn't go there.

-Robert

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The faces of frustration . . .

vs.

Substance - In his own words...

CsG

Oooh lookie, the GOP can spin using out-of-context clips just as well as the dems. You go, girl.

It's better than that oh so wonderful little clip the DNC put out.

But anyway - it's not out of context. Kerry is trying to claim he has had one position - he hasn't. His own words are his downfall.

CsG

Whatever you say there Cad. Yes, it is out-of-context. Both videos are, since they take isolated appearances, chop out big portions and then edit them together. Christ, why doesn't the GOP just edit/splice a tape together of Kerry saying "I ... hate .... America" I'm sure they can find those three words in various Kerry clips from the previous couple years.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The faces of frustration . . .

That is hilarious. I hope they run that ad.............. :laugh:

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: chess9
Ozoned:

You have confused competency with accuracy.

I do not believe Bush is mentally or emotionally competent to lead this nation. Of course, that's why Cheney's been doing it, but perhaps we shouldn't go there.

-Robert

Exactly, beyond what was said, Bush's body language and overall presence were not that of a strong, calm, and wise leader. John Kerry looked the better candidate for the job, and that is probably going to make a difference for Kerry. IIRC Gore beat Bush in the debates in 2000 in terms of points but Bush beat him on style, which ultimately led to a Bush victory in the debates. Kerry beat Bush on both fronts, style and points last night. CAD and other Republicans keep arguing substance, yet isn't ironic that Bush never won those 2000 debates on substance, only style points. This is bad news for Bush and they know it, but this shows the difference between Democrats and Republicans. When things go bad Democrats whine and complain, Republicans get angrier and even more determined.

I was listening to some of Rush's show on the way to work just to hear what they were saying and it was astounding. Some callers were absolutely furious, calling Kerry an SOB at one point. I also heard one say that Bush did bad because he was emotionally drained from visiting hurricane victims. I guess that is the difference, Republicans will stand by their own no matter what.

 

[Bonesdad]

Well, from where I sat, John Kerry pwned GW last night. Bush was frequently befuddled, not knowing what to say and seemed to have the same answers for every challenge to Kerry. Round 1 was a clear victory to Kerry.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: chess9
Ozoned:

You have confused competency with accuracy.

I do not believe Bush is mentally or emotionally competent to lead this nation. Of course, that's why Cheney's been doing it, but perhaps we shouldn't go there.

-Robert

Perhaps the point of my post was to subtle for you.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Kerry in office will send this country into a downward spiral of liberal socialism.

If CA is a sign of what could be coming to the entire US....

If this happens, I for one will invoke the 2nd amendment to protect myself and my country when they knock on my door to take my paycheck to give free everything to illegal locusts.

Boston tea party anybody?

You do understand the tea isn't supposed to be made from psychedelic mushrooms, right?

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
I guess that is the difference, Republicans will stand by their own no matter what.

Which is just plain DUMB. I would judge and criticize a Democrat as much as I do Bush, if a Democrat had lead the country as badly as Bush had.
Republicans folowing bush = blind sheep...

 

[conjur]

How Bush Did

It's hard work...uh...it's incredibly hard. It's tough work.