**OFFICIAL** Kerry/Bush Debate Thread: 2nd Debate to be 'Town-Hall' Style

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
It's pretty sad how someone as intelligent as CAD falls into the Republican smear campaign of taking John Kerry's quotes completely out of context and using them against him. His position has been clear and consistent and he's stuck with it ever since he made it. Don't believe me, go look at the transcripts, he's been consistent.

It's ok, CAD well never cede that Bush did poorly in that debate last night. His partisanship won't allow him to do so, it's understandable.

Exactly. The whole Kerry flip-flop diversion is just another deception by the Bush campaign. The YABAs lap it up. More objective people are recognizing it for the BS that it is.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Exactly Bush does well in his stump speeches because he has no opposition to his message. Kerry really challenged him on his own actions last night and it was pretty clear the president was rattled.

 

[chess9]

Conjur:

Sweet! Not fair to Bush at all, but I love it nonetheless. The piece amply demonstrates that the fellow is not firing on more than one or two cylinders.

Why would Republicans do this to themselves? Sheezh....what a boner, nominating Bush that is.

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Ozoned:

The failure is all mine I'm sure, but please clarify this mystery for me. In my old age I require big, bold letters preferably in BLACK.

-Robert

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY


Bush is absolutely asinine.

CsG

I got him!

 

[Gaard]

LEHRER: Mr. President, new question. Two minutes. Does the Iraq experience make it more likely or less likely that you would take the United States into another preemptive military action?

BUSH: I would hope I never have to. I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running -- when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that.

But the enemy attacked us, Jim, and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why 70% of the American people think Saddam was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks.

 

[chess9]

I watched the clip provided by our beloved CAD, but I must say it is really poorly done. Regardless, Kerry HAS been unclear about his message for two reasons. One, he voted for the resolution and now, obviously, regrets that decision; and, two, he can't fully support the war without alienating millions of voters who opposed the war. So, politically, Kerry is trying to have his cake and eat it too, which is hypocritical, but what's new here? He's trying to walk a line between the devil and the deep blue sea. Bush, on the other hand, is fully committed and is forthright in his failed pre-emption approach. So, who do you love, the blind idiot, or the cunning politician?

And, regardless of whether Kerry flip-flops he doesn't have the serious competency problems of Bush and he isn't taking a rigid win at all costs approach to Iraq as Bush is doing.

Flip-flopping is necessary for the survival of the political species. Every politician has done it and they will continue to do it as long as democracy survives-which may be until Tuesday if we are lucky.

-Robert

 

[CaptnKirk]

For the life of me, I can't figure out why 70% of the American people think Saddam was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks.


Ignorance is bliss, and we have one of the most blissful nations on the planet.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The faces of frustration . . .

vs.

Substance - In his own words...

CsG

Oooh lookie, the GOP can spin using out-of-context clips just as well as the dems. You go, girl.

It's better than that oh so wonderful little clip the DNC put out.

But anyway - it's not out of context. Kerry is trying to claim he has had one position - he hasn't. His own words are his downfall.

CsG

Be careful CAD. My vault is pretty extensive. I remember many conversations concerning 'out of context' quotes we've had in the past.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: chess9
Ozoned:

The failure is all mine I'm sure, but please clarify this mystery for me. In my old age I require big, bold letters preferably in BLACK.

-Robert

That is not exactly a mystery -Robert. It happens as you age. May I suggest glasses? Heh heh..

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The faces of frustration . . .

vs.

Substance - In his own words...

CsG

Oooh lookie, the GOP can spin using out-of-context clips just as well as the dems. You go, girl.

It's better than that oh so wonderful little clip the DNC put out.

But anyway - it's not out of context. Kerry is trying to claim he has had one position - he hasn't. His own words are his downfall.

CsG

Be careful CAD. My vault is pretty extensive. I remember many conversations concerning 'out of context' quotes we've had in the past.

Yep, and I'm not worried in this case.
It's obvious to anyone but the most partisan of the Bush-haters that kerry has been less than "consistent" in regards to Iraq.

Exhibit A:
"Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe we are not safer with his capture, don't have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president."

Exhibit B:
"Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell. But that was not, that was not in and of itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction that we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure."

Now how exactly is that consistent? Is there some "nuance" that we are all supposed to believe in there?

Again, I'm not worried.

CsG

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The faces of frustration . . .

vs.

Substance - In his own words...

CsG

Oooh lookie, the GOP can spin using out-of-context clips just as well as the dems. You go, girl.

It's better than that oh so wonderful little clip the DNC put out.

But anyway - it's not out of context. Kerry is trying to claim he has had one position - he hasn't. His own words are his downfall.

CsG

Be careful CAD. My vault is pretty extensive. I remember many conversations concerning 'out of context' quotes we've had in the past.

Yep, and I'm not worried in this case.
It's obvious to anyone but the most partisan of the Bush-haters that kerry has been less than "consistent" in regards to Iraq.

Exhibit A:
"Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe we are not safer with his capture, don't have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president."

Exhibit B:
"Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell. But that was not, that was not in and of itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction that we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure."

Now how exactly is that consistent? Is there some "nuance" that we are all supposed to believe in there?

Again, I'm not worried.

CsG

By Kerry saying the world is better off without Saddam doesn't mean it was the proper way to do it by rushing to war. See its easy to send other people in harms way when your ignorant and don't know any better. John Kerry has repeatedly said the same thing. The President told us he was going to do certain things and he didn't. Thats the bottom line. There is a proper way to do everything, especially going to war. Your just mad because President Bush looked a fool and possibly a liar. All these weeks its the same tired line of Kerry is a flip flopper, but when the lights was on and cameras was rolling, not only did Kerry make Bush look totally unqualified to be President, let alone Commander and Chief, Kerry clearly showed that it was republican flip flopping lie. He was clear and to be honest Kerry is willing try things Bush just doesn't think will work. The reason, Bush is really a weak President and those who follow him are weak too. Last night we saw the true fake that has been in the white house. And Kerry laid out the truth and messed up the Bush party. He exposed the lies and deceit of this administration. Bush couldn't even respond, he just looked pathetic. And whats sad is you support these cronies blindly.

 

[Ozoned]

Kerry won the debate but he lost the election

 

[Ozoned]

Link


Flash Polls vs. Election Results.


Spin is underway, and a variety of polls are suggesting a Kerry victory in the debate last night.

Truth be told, Kerry exceeded expectations, but when it came to substance, he came up short.

The flash polls still suggest Kerry won the debate, which Democrats think makes Kerry suddenly unstoppable. Historically speaking, that's hardly the case. Otherwise, we would have seen President Mondale, President Dukakis, President Perot, and President Gore.

Since 1984, no Republican has won in the flash polls from the first debate, but has won 3 out of 5 of those elections.

Ross Perot beat both Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush in the flash poll with 47%. Michael Dukakis beat George H.W Bush 38-29... don't forget, this is the same debate Dukakis gave an emotionless response when asked if his wife were raped and murdered.

In 1984, Reagan was said to have lost the first debate 54-35.

Reagan (the Republican incumbant) was reelected after winning 49 states.

The Kerry camp thinks they should be celebrating right now. But the flash poll is not the election. We can debate who won the debate until we're blue in the face, but no matter how you slice it, in the end substance still is more important than style, and Bush had the monopoly on substance.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
[...bunch of horsesh!t snipped...]

Again, I'm not worried.

Tell us again how hard it is? How hard is it? Tell us again how tough it is? Is it a hard, tough job?

Tell me what good is being consistant, when being "consistant" consists of backing up the car, and punching it right into the same brick wall you just crashed into? Then backing it up and doing it again? Ad nauseum? And all the while, screaming out the window "Staayyyyyy theeeee courrrrrsse!"

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Tell us again how hard it is? How hard is it? Tell us again how tough it is? Is it a hard, tough job?

We won't know the answer to that until it's put to a "Global Test."

 

[CallMeJoe]

Kerry gave the Republicans some good sound bites to use against him (mostly to be taken out of context), while Bush left the viewing audience with a terrible 'deer in the headlights' impression. I think the Pres has fallen victim to his campaign management - he's used to the carefully managed friendly Republican meetings and softball questions. When he dropped his favorite stump speech lines into his answers and the audience didn't go wild like they do in his regular appearances, it threw him off stride. Once he lost his rhythm, he didn't have the off-the-cuff chops to recover. Bad turned to worse when his prepared lines continued to fall flat in front of an audience carefully warned to stay silent.

I think this may have been Bush's Nixon debate. Everyone remembers tricky Dick's terrible appearance in the 1st debate with JFK. Many forget that the people who listened to that debate on the radio and didn't see the sweat and five o'clock shadow thought Nixon won the debate on substance. There were three other debates, also substantively won by Nixon. History, however, tells us RMN lost the election largely due to that first hideous debate appeartance. Bush's awkward silences and petulant expressions will cost him dearly.

Kerry. OTOH, did what he most needed to do - he gave the undecideds someone other than W who looks qualified to be president. Everyone who thinks we need a change of direction but was scared of Kerry as an unknown was reassured by his confident appearance and ability to more than hold his own against the president. Anyone who still counts him out of this election is, IMHO, a fool.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Link


Flash Polls vs. Election Results.

:roll:

Cliffs Notes: Blogs for Bush is a pro-Bush website.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Tell us again how hard it is? How hard is it? Tell us again how tough it is? Is it a hard, tough job?

We won't know the answer to that until it's put to a "Global Test."

Why don't you stop being a partisan hack and at least put it into context. Oh! That's right. It makes total sense in context and you don't want that.

Kerry on Pre-Emptive Strike:

But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.

Which is not what Bush did and why the Iraqi people see us as occupiers instead of "liberators".

 

[umbrella39]

...

 

[gururu]

Bush faltered early, but saved enough face by the end IMO. He made a more memorable appearance, both good and bad, but certainly thought provoking. Kerry came off for the first time as a real contender, but as I feared, the hill is very steep and the time to late for him to topple Bush in the popular opinion.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Tell us again how hard it is? How hard is it? Tell us again how tough it is? Is it a hard, tough job?

We won't know the answer to that until it's put to a "Global Test."

Did you hear Bush admit having relations with the widow of a fallen soldier?

You know, I think about Missy Johnson. She's a fantastic lady I met in Charlotte, North Carolina. She and her son Bryan, they came to see me. Her husband PJ got killed. He'd been in Afghanistan, went to Iraq.

You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Tell us again how hard it is? How hard is it? Tell us again how tough it is? Is it a hard, tough job?

We won't know the answer to that until it's put to a "Global Test."

You should stop listening to Limbaugh, Hannity, Prager, etc. and learn to think for yourself.

Here, perhaps quoting the text of Kerry yet again will pull the wool from your eyes:

No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.

Now, read that and let it sink in and you'll see the truth in that statement.

 

[conjur]

Another reason to vote for Kerry
by kos
Sat Oct 2nd, 2004 at 05:46:18 GMT

Sometimes, I actually get some time to read my emails:
I think you (and maybe your readers) will be interested in a personal experience I had last night while watching the debate.
My 19 year-old (former foster) son, who has never been interested in politics, sat down with me and began silently watching about 10 minutes into it.

About half an hour later he turned to me and said, "Dad, am I able to vote?". I told him he would have to register but that yes, he could vote. I asked who he wanted to vote for, and he said "Kerry's the tall dude, right?". I said yes, and he said, "I'd vote for Kerry".

I asked him why, and he replied, "Because, I can tell if they were both captured by terrorists Kerry would keep telling them to go f*** themselves, and Bush would cry like a baby and tell them anything they wanted to know".

Today we registered him to vote.

-- Proud Dad

And yes, this is a true story.

 

[jackschmittusa]

gururu

Bush faltered early, but saved enough face by the end IMO.

Agreed....Bush did alright at the end. He greeted his family on stage without falling down or forgetting any of their names (that I heard). By far, his best moment of the night.