Thanks. I somehow missed that option. I'll have to play it again with that option changed. I don't suppose you can adjust cover system as well?
Originally posted by: purbeast0
you can make it so the aim doesn't toggle and you have to hold it to aim so it's just like all the other shooters. it's one of the options in the control area. i turned it on pretty quickly after starting.
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: purbeast0
you can make it so the aim doesn't toggle and you have to hold it to aim so it's just like all the other shooters. it's one of the options in the control area. i turned it on pretty quickly after starting.
When you enable this option, is the zoom/aim still on R3? Or does one of the alternate control schemes put the zoom on one of the left triggers? If I can change the zoom to one of the triggers and make it non-toggable like you mention here, then I'll be a happy camper.
I find it weird that everyone is complaining that movement is too slow. Halo has always had the slowest movement of any FPS, and I rarely see anyone complain about that.
In my experience with the Killzone2 demo, I found the movement of walking/running perfectly fine. It didn't feel out of place or anything. It's the aiming that will take me some getting used to. Like someone posted above, it's really, really hard initially to fine-tune your shot. If I try to move it a quarter inch to the left, it moves an inch instead (made up numbers, but you get what I'm saying). It is possible to move it with finesse, you just have to barely push the stick, which I find harder to do on the dualshock than on the 360 controller. If I could replace the analog nubs on the dualshock with ones that are concave, then I'd be much better off.
i had alt2 as my control w/the "hold down to aim" feature on. L1 was my aiming button and i had to hold it down to aim, once let go it went back.
in kz2 i don't think the MOVEMENT is slow, i feel that when you turn with the right analog it's sluggish, as in it doesn't respond immediately. whether they wanted it that way for the "heavy armor" feeling or not, i don't like it.
Originally posted by: destrekor
But, yeah the stick acceleration for Aiming is going to bother some. The longer you hold it, the faster it'll move, I think. Or it's the further you move the stick from center, it's a percentage thing, and thus it will move that much faster.
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: purbeast0
i had alt2 as my control w/the "hold down to aim" feature on. L1 was my aiming button and i had to hold it down to aim, once let go it went back.
in kz2 i don't think the MOVEMENT is slow, i feel that when you turn with the right analog it's sluggish, as in it doesn't respond immediately. whether they wanted it that way for the "heavy armor" feeling or not, i don't like it.
Good, I'll try the alt2 scheme tonight. I've been reading around that some people say it's very hard to use cover and aim at the same time with that scheme, but if I hate cover as much as I did this morning when I played, then I won't use it much at all. I'll just stand behind stuff for cover, I don't need to be plastered up against it. I've played through CoD4 twice now and haven't once bemoaned the lack of a cover mechanic.
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: destrekor
But, yeah the stick acceleration for Aiming is going to bother some. The longer you hold it, the faster it'll move, I think. Or it's the further you move the stick from center, it's a percentage thing, and thus it will move that much faster.
It better be like that. That's the basis of analog control .
Originally posted by: UpgradeFailure
For anyone who wants to buy it. amazon just added release day delivery, so you can order it from them and get it the day it comes out (Free, if you are a prime member). Also save $5 with code KZ2SAVE5. No tax, free shipping and $5 coupon is pretty much $10 off retail if you bought in a store, so pretty decent deal for a game on the day it comes out
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
I am starting to have doubts that even COD4 as old as it is, will still be more fun than KZ2. It's true KZ2 Multiplayer isn't out yet and I haven't seen the whole picture, but I have my doubts over this coming out better than COD4 overall. But we'll see.
I am hence canceling my pre-order, I don't think this will be worth my money and at this retail price.
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Played the demo this morning, and here are my thoughts. First up, the visual fidelity is awesome as expected. I think this game is running in 1080p, which is impressive if I'm right.
The one thing that I thought looked like shit was the gun textures while in cover. When you go into cover, the gun is raised up like it's against the wall or something, and while I understand that it blurs the gun for a depth of field effect, it looks shitty. For some reason, the textures looks like they were pulled straight out of an N64 game. But when you're not in cover, everything looks great. I only mention this because it was very distracting.
Speaking of cover, what little I used of it, it seemed broken and unusable. At times, I was still highly exposed and received gunfire. Other times I couldn't really get it to do what I want. I'll try it a bit more as I go through the demo a couple more times, but at this very early stage, the cover mechanic seems to have been tacked on, with no thought given to it.
Originally posted by: purbeast0
cause you either work for Sony or are their #1 fan .
the graphics are not as impressive IMO once you have it in your own hands and playing it on your own TV. i mean they look great, don't get me wrong, but there is something about it. it's almost like there is some kind of smudge filter or something on the game to the point that something just looks off. the color palette is really lacking too which may be what is bugging me, in that everything seems to "blend" together. i dunno.
the controls are just very sluggish. i believe this is exactly what warcrow was referring to in his explanation of the controls in his mini-wrap up. it just does not move to the left as soon as i push left on the analog, and when it does, it moves slowly then all of a sudden moves faster. pushing the sensitivity up helped slightly, however it still felt like there was some kind of delay. and please, using the "it's supposed to feel real and heavy" that I read someone say is a buncha BS, it's just poorly implemented.
also the fact that there is no 100% customization, and the one most closely to what I like (alternative 2) is still whack with L2 being crouch, which also happens to be the button that you use to cover. holding L2 to cover and pressing L1 to aim, then R1 to fire just does not work at all.
Originally posted by: R Nilla
I found that doing a quick tap to the left went just to the left of his head, then when I quickly tapped to the right, it went to the right of his head, it didn't seem precise enough to let me zone in on his head.
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Your "logical connection" is not any stronger than a person who simply says that in their experience XBL speeds are good and PSN speeds are bad. Their scenario points to PSN being at fault. Your scenario points to an ISP being at fault.
Neither anecdotal case is enough to prove jack squat.
Originally posted by: blurredvision
So am I the only one who turned their aim sensitivity down? I tried making it so that the slightest touch on the right analog didn't move at rabbit's pace, but it's a no go. No matter how much I think about it, I still over-aim everything. That's the only thing I don't like about the demo so far (well, that and the cover system, which I still hate). If I can't control it precisely, which I can't seem to do, then I won't be interested in it.
Originally posted by: blurredvision
So am I the only one who turned their aim sensitivity down? I tried making it so that the slightest touch on the right analog didn't move at rabbit's pace, but it's a no go. No matter how much I think about it, I still over-aim everything. That's the only thing I don't like about the demo so far (well, that and the cover system, which I still hate). If I can't control it precisely, which I can't seem to do, then I won't be interested in it.
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: blurredvision
So am I the only one who turned their aim sensitivity down? I tried making it so that the slightest touch on the right analog didn't move at rabbit's pace, but it's a no go. No matter how much I think about it, I still over-aim everything. That's the only thing I don't like about the demo so far (well, that and the cover system, which I still hate). If I can't control it precisely, which I can't seem to do, then I won't be interested in it.
it's because of the delay between the input you give the analog and the output you see on screen.
no matter what your sensisitivity is, the instant you push a direction on your right analog stick, it doesn't give you the output instantly like it should, there is a very tiny lag/delay. that is causing you to overaim because you are holding it longer than you expect to since your timing is off.
it's a freaking split microsecond, but it's there, and it causes issues. timing is everything in aiming, and this throws off the timing. i was having the same issue.
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: blurredvision
So am I the only one who turned their aim sensitivity down? I tried making it so that the slightest touch on the right analog didn't move at rabbit's pace, but it's a no go. No matter how much I think about it, I still over-aim everything. That's the only thing I don't like about the demo so far (well, that and the cover system, which I still hate). If I can't control it precisely, which I can't seem to do, then I won't be interested in it.
it's because of the delay between the input you give the analog and the output you see on screen.
no matter what your sensisitivity is, the instant you push a direction on your right analog stick, it doesn't give you the output instantly like it should, there is a very tiny lag/delay. that is causing you to overaim because you are holding it longer than you expect to since your timing is off.
it's a freaking split microsecond, but it's there, and it causes issues. timing is everything in aiming, and this throws off the timing. i was having the same issue.
Well, whatever it is, I hate it.
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: blurredvision
So am I the only one who turned their aim sensitivity down? I tried making it so that the slightest touch on the right analog didn't move at rabbit's pace, but it's a no go. No matter how much I think about it, I still over-aim everything. That's the only thing I don't like about the demo so far (well, that and the cover system, which I still hate). If I can't control it precisely, which I can't seem to do, then I won't be interested in it.
it's because of the delay between the input you give the analog and the output you see on screen.
no matter what your sensisitivity is, the instant you push a direction on your right analog stick, it doesn't give you the output instantly like it should, there is a very tiny lag/delay. that is causing you to overaim because you are holding it longer than you expect to since your timing is off.
it's a freaking split microsecond, but it's there, and it causes issues. timing is everything in aiming, and this throws off the timing. i was having the same issue.
Well, whatever it is, I hate it.
haha yea, i'm hoping i can get used to it. i'm going to give it some time this weekend.
whatever it is, whether they want a "weighted" feeling to it or whatever, it's a poor design decision IMO. when i move my controller to change my aim, i want it to move instantly, not some slight microsecond delay that the developers think is a good amount to give it a "weighted" feeling.
realistically speaking, if they had an option to turn off this "weighted" control vs a non-weighted control, i can't see how anybody would keep the weighted option turned on since it simply causes less precision and accuracy.
when that's the case, maybe they should start thinking about their original decision and going back to the drawing board in regards to the control.
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: blurredvision
So am I the only one who turned their aim sensitivity down? I tried making it so that the slightest touch on the right analog didn't move at rabbit's pace, but it's a no go. No matter how much I think about it, I still over-aim everything. That's the only thing I don't like about the demo so far (well, that and the cover system, which I still hate). If I can't control it precisely, which I can't seem to do, then I won't be interested in it.
it's because of the delay between the input you give the analog and the output you see on screen.
no matter what your sensisitivity is, the instant you push a direction on your right analog stick, it doesn't give you the output instantly like it should, there is a very tiny lag/delay. that is causing you to overaim because you are holding it longer than you expect to since your timing is off.
it's a freaking split microsecond, but it's there, and it causes issues. timing is everything in aiming, and this throws off the timing. i was having the same issue.
Well, whatever it is, I hate it.
haha yea, i'm hoping i can get used to it. i'm going to give it some time this weekend.
whatever it is, whether they want a "weighted" feeling to it or whatever, it's a poor design decision IMO. when i move my controller to change my aim, i want it to move instantly, not some slight microsecond delay that the developers think is a good amount to give it a "weighted" feeling.
realistically speaking, if they had an option to turn off this "weighted" control vs a non-weighted control, i can't see how anybody would keep the weighted option turned on since it simply causes less precision and accuracy.
when that's the case, maybe they should start thinking about their original decision and going back to the drawing board in regards to the control.
You know, sometimes the 'weighted' feeling that you apparently despise so greatly, is a warranted and welcome addition to some. Not everyone wants Unreal Tournament style rabbit on crack controls.
HOWEVER, I think you are entirely misinterpreting something here... you're display might have a delay of some sort, and not the game. While the aiming movement was slow compared to other games, I didn't once notice any delay. There was movement at first, but if you only barely tap the analog stick, the on-screen aiming adjustment was extremely minimal, maybe unnoticeable to some. But I notice it.
This isn't any kind of fanboyism to the game either. I'm extremely intrigued by both your experiences and this games radically different controls in comparison to just about every other FPS out there.
I am indeed wondering if it is something that you just do not notice, because you are so used to rapid on-screen adjustments that are quick and very noticeable, or if there is a very real delay on your end for some strange reason.
It's strange that some do mention a delay, while others do not. Yes, there are going to be some people who are such devoted fanboys to either the game, or completely sold by all the marketing hype, or even just extreme fanboys of the system and don't want to bash any potentially big hit on said system. Those people will exist. And there will be the opposite, where fanboys of the other system will bash any remotely negative thing and try and cause as much negative attention to the game as possible.
But then there are the true, pure game lovers, who don't care about system, just an enjoyable game. Some people might see me as a PS3 fanboy, for reasons I don't know why... because I've said it hundreds of times - I'd own a 360 if it weren't pointless in my opinion. That reason? Nearly all the games I want on the system are available on the PC, and any game I'd rather play on the PC. The PlayStation family just happens to have more exclusive game franchises that never appear on the PC, so it's something I maintain interest in (though the PS3 has lost some of those exclusives to other consoles, they still appear on the PS3... for the most part... and likewise, still don't appear on the PC, so moot point in a way).
I just like good games, especially single player. I don't play multiplayer all that much. I'm a story person admittedly. Though I do enjoy a good online experience.
So with that out of that way...
I still cannot say I truly see a delay. I can see what might appear to be a delay to some that are used to, or expecting, much faster speeds. But I see no real input delay.
Try moving the stick immediately all the way to the max radius and see if you still experience a delay. It seems to be an acceleration-based analog aiming system, which isn't seemingly deployed a lot in FPS console games.
Originally posted by: hans030390
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Your "logical connection" is not any stronger than a person who simply says that in their experience XBL speeds are good and PSN speeds are bad. Their scenario points to PSN being at fault. Your scenario points to an ISP being at fault.
Neither anecdotal case is enough to prove jack squat.
Actually, my "logical connection" is stronger. I've tested at least 3 different ISPs (and speed tests) with my PS3, 2 of which were using the exact same hardware, setup, house, etc. Most people only go as far as having one ISP and one setup to base their Live vs PSN comparison on.
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Originally posted by: hans030390
Originally posted by: CKDragon
Your "logical connection" is not any stronger than a person who simply says that in their experience XBL speeds are good and PSN speeds are bad. Their scenario points to PSN being at fault. Your scenario points to an ISP being at fault.
Neither anecdotal case is enough to prove jack squat.
Actually, my "logical connection" is stronger. I've tested at least 3 different ISPs (and speed tests) with my PS3, 2 of which were using the exact same hardware, setup, house, etc. Most people only go as far as having one ISP and one setup to base their Live vs PSN comparison on.
Fine. Keep thinking that your personal experience is enough to determine the network & ISP fault of the entire U.S.
It's not.
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Here a couple of videos from a guy on the Killzone forums:
Video #1: Button Lag
Video #2: Analog Stick Lag
I was on the KillZone 2 forum reading the tons of complaints about the controls (many are just like mine) and I was reading from one of the KZ2 developers, that the control feel was a design decision to show how weighty the player is for the sake of realism!
So they wanted people to try something different even if they didn't like it. They wanted to have realism because of the weight and what have you ( I still don't believe that excuse)
FINE. I can understand slow movement, but lag??
1- If KZ2 people wanted realism GREAT, I am ALL for that, nothing wrong with that at all, but to preach to me realism about something like aiming and only aiming while I can be heavy machine gunned to the point where I am going to die any second from all the bleeding and there is blood on my face and what not, then if I hide behind a wall for 7 seconds I am as good as new?
When you start cherry picking while preaching realism, you lost the point of it.
2- How is it that ALL I have to do is walk over a heavy automatic rifle and that is sufficient to have it picked up and in my hands in no time, or have it's ammo go magically into the rifle that is in my hands.
3- My revolver has infinite ammo and I have an infinite number of revolver barrels, I just throw one to the ground and slide a my magically fully loaded one that is at the ready whenever I feel like it!
4- Or that I can beat my squad mates senseless to the point where they are at %5 health and while they are on the ground dying, I throw a grenade at them then proceed to empty a full clip on them for a good measure but to no avail they are still alive and will get up and be in good shape just after 10 seconds ?
5- And how is it that aiming a heavy Bzooka with a heavy rocket in it is the same thing as aiming a freaking knife or a pistol around too?
So I can't aim quicker though I am this bad ass elite soldier, but I can recover from a heavy machine gun blow to my face, torso, legs and arms in 7 seconds just because I am so bad ass??
Do you guys see why people like me are canceling their pre-orders?
These guys made either a big development mistake or an arrogant design decision but they refuse to back down just because people are not enjoying what they have in their hands.
People are free to design games as they like, the rest are free to not buy games they don't enjoy playing. And until they start responding more reasonably towards this issue. I am not picking this game no matter what, even if it was free, I still wouldn't enjoy the controls.
"This does not mean we are going to pull a blanket over our heads and stop evaluating this and looking into it and allowing you guys an adjustment period and I will pick this up with some coders on Monday as well to see what they say."
I am not picking this game no matter what, even if it was free, I still wouldn't enjoy the controls.
I remember looking at all the MP videos and going, wow this guy sucks. However its not the guy that sucked, heck he was always in the top 3-5, its just the damn controls. Seems like its more based on luck then actual skill since its so hard to fine tune your aim. You throw your aim one way and HOPE it lands on your enemy, because if you need to make a slight correction, forget it you'll over compensate, might aswell spray and pray seeing as how the guns have so much recoil anyways. Speaking of which is this the first time Sev fires a gun? Your telling me he cant control the recoil better then that? Come on...going off subject here but w/e.
To the people saying that the CoD series have an unrealistic feel to it. Its true, you know why? Because we are holding plastic controllers and not guns. This whole weight system is BS, if I had a real gun and I needed to adjust my aim slightly, it would be so easy, I wouldnt have my gun go way past my target because I over compensated.
A fix would be so simple, make the deadzone much smaller...and make the initial acceleration value higher, I know theres more to it then that, but you all get what im saying.
In closure, the weight of the movement, jumping, etc, is GREAT!!! But for aiming, its complete trash, and its NOT realistic at all.
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Here a couple of videos from a guy on the Killzone forums:
Video #1: Button Lag
Video #2: Analog Stick Lag
I was on the KillZone 2 forum reading the tons of complaints about the controls (many are just like mine) and I was reading from one of the KZ2 developers, that the control feel was a design decision to show how weighty the player is for the sake of realism!
So they wanted people to try something different even if they didn't like it. They wanted to have realism because of the weight and what have you ( I still don't believe that excuse)
FINE. I can understand slow movement, but lag??
1- If KZ2 people wanted realism GREAT, I am ALL for that, nothing wrong with that at all, but to preach to me realism about something like aiming and only aiming while I can be heavy machine gunned to the point where I am going to die any second from all the bleeding and there is blood on my face and what not, then if I hide behind a wall for 7 seconds I am as good as new?
When you start cherry picking while preaching realism, you lost the point of it.
2- How is it that ALL I have to do is walk over a heavy automatic rifle and that is sufficient to have it picked up and in my hands in no time, or have it's ammo go magically into the rifle that is in my hands.
3- My revolver has infinite ammo and I have an infinite number of revolver barrels, I just throw one to the ground and slide a my magically fully loaded one that is at the ready whenever I feel like it!
4- Or that I can beat my squad mates senseless to the point where they are at %5 health and while they are on the ground dying, I throw a grenade at them then proceed to empty a full clip on them for a good measure but to no avail they are still alive and will get up and be in good shape just after 10 seconds ?
5- And how is it that aiming a heavy Bzooka with a heavy rocket in it is the same thing as aiming a freaking knife or a pistol around too?
So I can't aim quicker though I am this bad ass elite soldier, but I can recover from a heavy machine gun blow to my face, torso, legs and arms in 7 seconds just because I am so bad ass??
Do you guys see why people like me are canceling their pre-orders?
These guys made either a big development mistake or an arrogant design decision but they refuse to back down just because people are not enjoying what they have in their hands.
People are free to design games as they like, the rest are free to not buy games they don't enjoy playing. And until they start responding more reasonably towards this issue. I am not picking this game no matter what, even if it was free, I still wouldn't enjoy the controls.
I really don't think anyone cares if you're canceling your pre order, or the other people complaining on the internet.
And secondly, that realism argument may be the stupidest arguments ever created. Just because a Dev tries to make one thing "realistic" automatically means everything else has to be realistic? Its a design choice, they wanted some realism and some weight behind the controls. Good for them. Are you now going to argue why a electricity cannon is a stupid idea?
Like they said, they are trying to tone down the twitch finger aspect of the game, and making a slight delay forces you to work harder to aim for your shots.
And are you just ignoring this line?
"This does not mean we are going to pull a blanket over our heads and stop evaluating this and looking into it and allowing you guys an adjustment period and I will pick this up with some coders on Monday as well to see what they say."
How the hell are they arrogant when they flat out say they are going to look into it??? That already takes out a majority of your argument
I am not picking this game no matter what, even if it was free, I still wouldn't enjoy the controls.
Finally, this strikes me with complete lunacy and stupidity