**OFFICIAL** Killzone 2 Thread

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: purbeast0
im starting to tihnk you and hans work for sony

Yeah, right...I wish. Then I wouldn't be a poor college student.

Any statements I've made about weight or realism were before anyone pinpointed the lag issue. I hadn't noticed it until after I watched the videos. I don't, in any shape or form, thing that lag means realism.

However, I still stand by my statement that my friends and I can all play the game just fine, lag or not (and we're pretty big into FPS games). I'm not saying we enjoy it and the lag adds to anything...nothing like that. I just think some people are too mentally fixated on it, where you can actually enjoy the game, lag or not. I do think that some of the other control elements do add to the game in a way.

And trust me, MP is great (and I think more forgiving than SP for those more sensitive to the lag, as far as I can remember from the beta). I'm getting defensive about the game because I don't want people to miss out due to a disappointing demo.

I apologize for any misunderstandings between me and anyone else. I didn't get the lag thing until recently.

Edit: Also, since the devs know about this and are looking into it, I would recommend you all try to voice your opinion in a place that will be heard. That way, you're more likely to get the fix for the lag. They're pretty good at communicating with the community. I'll also work towards getting them to get rid of the lag.

I know you all hate the PS forums, but you may just have to go there. And Killzone.com, maybe?

You do work for them, you are part of the closed beta testing group for one of their in-house game developers, are you not? You may not get anything beyond early access to the game/s, in terms of compensation, but that is a semantic argument IMO.

The rest just reads as damage control to me, I mean no offense, it is an observation, not an accusation. Or, at least, it is my intent to express it that way.

As to those that commented they like the lag, or it appeals to them. I'm beginning to think someone at Sony could take a dump in a box, and you'd explain how it smells kind of good.

I'm done here. I just hope this is good old fashioned fanboy antics I read here, and not viral marketing by corporate shills, because they are the bottom feeders of the WWW.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
You do work for them, you are part of the closed beta testing group for one of their in-house game developers, are you not? You may not get anything beyond early access to the game/s, in terms of compensation, but that is a semantic argument IMO.

The rest just reads as damage control to me, I mean no offense, it is an observation, not an accusation. Or, at least, it is my intent to express it that way.

As to those that commented they like the lag, or it appeals to them. I'm beginning to think someone at Sony could take a dump in a box, and you'd explain how it smells kind of good.

I'm done here. I just hope this is good old fashioned fanboy antics I read here, and not viral marketing by corporate shills, because they are the bottom feeders of the WWW.

I don't see how randomly getting chosen to participate in the MP beta classifies me as "working for them". Yeah, I gave my input on the game in hopes I could help improve it. But who wouldn't do that? I kept playing because I enjoyed myself. I get nothing out of it in the end. I had to pre-order the game just like everyone else.

As for the rest being "damage control", I had to make some revisions to what I was saying based on an issue I hadn't known before. Everything else is just repetition, for the most part.

 

[tatteredpotato]

I downloaded it, but I must say it took me long enough. First I had to update to 2.60 (a 150 some MB download) which took a good 15 min download, and then the install took another 15 minutes. Then the demo itself took about 90 minutes to download (Halo Wars Downloaded in about 30 minutes), and then the demo had to install? Anyways, on to my impressions of the game.

I'll say the game looks awesome... but I just don't think I'll be able to enjoy it on that controller. The aim sensitivity was just weird, seemed like theres too much acceleration on it or something, but I just had issues with it. I kept getting confused with the button layout, but that's probably more an issues with my lack of experience with the controller. I think one issue I have with the controller is there just isn't enough tension on the joysticks, so I have issues with slight movements.

In the end after playing the demo, I'm probably going to have to pass on this game, which is unfortunate because I had high hopes about it.

 

[Piuc2020]

I just finished the demo, it's short but sweet. The graphics are pretty nice , they depend a lot on blur to have that cinematic impact but they work for me so no complaints.

I definitely noticed the lag and "heavyness" of the movement but it didn't bother me particularly, even CoD4 feels sluggish for me with a gamepad (compared to mouse/keyboard) so I liked how Killzone 2 made the sluggishness a "feature" of sorts, it's pretty immersive actually and feels quite natural, I also LOVE how good the pistol feels, well placed shots to the head are both effective and satisfying.

The cover system seems like very little at first but it makes things much more fluid, also, everything feels heavy and powerful, when the enemies die (I think they are called helghast, sorry I'm a killzone noob) it's almost as if you can feel the weight of their body crashing full-force against the floor, same with pretty much everything else (grenades, explosions, etc) it's hard to explain.

I think I'm definitely buying Killzone 2, I don't know, it's the first console shooter where I feel the gamepad isn't holding me back but is actually part of the experience, similar to RE5's clunky controls, it's hard to explain but oh man, KZ2 is the real deal and that means a lot to ME considering I'm a huge PC fps fan.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
...similar to RE5's clunky controls...

*shudders*

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
...similar to RE5's clunky controls...

*shudders*

Yeah I played that demo right after playing the Killzone 2 demo... and oh holy shit they alone terrified me. I felt like I could never do what I wanted without basically resorting to button mashing. It was terrrrible.

The game itself could be cool, but the controls basically lead me to frustration very quickly.


And yeah, I know some people will not buy K2 just because of the control experience in the demo. But I say... fight it, deal with it, and get it because it looks like it'll be a damn fun game. I fought through the problems in the original Killzone because the game itself was enjoyable.
But I love good single player games. Especially if they have good multiplayer attached, but I really hate games that have good multiplayer and terrible single player, as I rarely play all that much online.
But I'm a story person. The Killzone universe has such a great story backdrop, that and now the presentation in K2, I was sold from the start.

So I may have a little bias in the controls too, because mostly I just want to enjoy the entire experience rather than pick it apart. I'm not a critic. I like whole experiences, rather than trying to bring down everything I play. Even some pretty bad games, I tend to find it enjoyable. Same with movies. Unless its downright terrible.

 

[aphex]

So i've played the demo a few times. I dunno if its input lag, but I have a hell of a time killing the enemies in that game. Not only does my aim seem to be off, but it takes like 10+ shots to kill anyone.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: aphex
So i've played the demo a few times. I dunno if its input lag, but I have a hell of a time killing the enemies in that game. Not only does my aim seem to be off, but it takes like 10+ shots to kill anyone.

It's part of how they made the game, it just takes some getting used to, try aiming for the head.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: aphex
So i've played the demo a few times. I dunno if its input lag, but I have a hell of a time killing the enemies in that game. Not only does my aim seem to be off, but it takes like 10+ shots to kill anyone.

They got some crazy body armor in the future.

Seriously, though. Aim for the head.

 

[JoPh]

halo3 ftw.

 

[blurredvision]

I was just talking to a friend at work who played this demo over the weekend. I asked him casually if he had any trouble aiming, and it was like a revelation that I was asking about it. He said he had a hell of a time with it, and didn't like it at all. He said he kept over-aiming people and eventually started using the left stick to move his cursor onto an enemy by strafing. I told him about the input lag after this, and he said if they didn't fix it, this game wouldn't be purchased by him, either.

 

[James3shin]

Tiger Uppercut!

/IjustTigeruppercuttedkillzone2usedfiercetoo

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: blurredvision
I was just talking to a friend at work who played this demo over the weekend. I asked him casually if he had any trouble aiming, and it was like a revelation that I was asking about it. He said he had a hell of a time with it, and didn't like it at all. He said he kept over-aiming people and eventually started using the left stick to move his cursor onto an enemy by strafing. I told him about the input lag after this, and he said if they didn't fix it, this game wouldn't be purchased by him, either.

I've been posting on the Killzone.com and Killzone 2 section on the PS forums about this issue. I'm not the only one, but I still encourage those who haven't (as horribly fanboy-ish as those forums get) to make your voice heard in a play where the devs will read. The more people they get complaining about the input delay/lag, the more likely we are to get results.

I did find this out while playing the demo, and it may slightly help others:

If you're using the cover feature and NOT peeking out, if you have your aiming reticule on an enemy (and it is red), pushing R3 (on default config) seems to do a minor auto-aim that puts your reticule more on the center of the enemy, making your shots already lined up perfectly when they pop out of cover.

At least that's what I experienced...

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: hans030390
I did find this out while playing the demo, and it may slightly help others:

If you're using the cover feature and NOT peeking out, if you have your aiming reticule on an enemy (and it is red), pushing R3 (on default config) seems to do a minor auto-aim that puts your reticule more on the center of the enemy, making your shots already lined up perfectly when they pop out of cover.

At least that's what I experienced...

Haha, I'm using the Alt2 scheme. I can see me trying to use yet another button whilst in cover, zooming, moving the sticks while clicking one in.

I for one hope they'll patch this issue. I'll definitely buy it then. I've already posted my concern in the official thread over at the playstation.com forums.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: blurredvision
I for one hope they'll patch this issue. I'll definitely buy it then. I've already posted my concern in the official thread over at the playstation.com forums.

:thumbsup:

Maybe collectively we could smack some sense into the fanboys.

Wait...no. That could never happen.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: hans030390
I did find this out while playing the demo, and it may slightly help others:

If you're using the cover feature and NOT peeking out, if you have your aiming reticule on an enemy (and it is red), pushing R3 (on default config) seems to do a minor auto-aim that puts your reticule more on the center of the enemy, making your shots already lined up perfectly when they pop out of cover.

At least that's what I experienced...

Haha, I'm using the Alt2 scheme. I can see me trying to use yet another button whilst in cover, zooming, moving the sticks while clicking one in.

I for one hope they'll patch this issue. I'll definitely buy it then. I've already posted my concern in the official thread over at the playstation.com forums.

Hmm... Yeah I just tried using the Alt 2 scheme. If this is the way the game will ship, with no true custom control-mapping, this is what I'll use. But it's going to take some getting used to.
Using both L1 and L2 at the same time is very new to me. I'm always used 1 finger to control both buttons of either left or right side. Now using two fingers to control both is really throwing me off.
That, and with some games giving me the option to either completely, or somewhat, define custom controls, I always place Fire/Primary Fire at R2, i.e. a trigger (somewhat).
But that's taking some getting used too. I used all of my grenades completely by accident when I'd momentarily forget R2 was for grenades. That really sucked.


Oh, and this is going to sound like a worn out argument. But I am being COMPLETELY HONEST when I say this.
I just played the demo a second time, and I was trying my hardest to acknowledge that a delay could be there. I'll try and record a video (cell phone, so it would suck) if someone really wants proof because they don't want to believe me... but there was ZERO delay. I mean ZERO.
On the menus I first noticed (because apparently in those videos of the delay, even the menu had a delay) that there was no delay in moving up and down. Well... I moved into the game, and voila, no delay whatsoever. I moved the stick, and immediately on screen it moved. I mean no delay. Nothing I'd consider any different from any other game I've played.
And I upped the sensitivity just a notch on both x and y, and on-screen adjusting seemed to become quite a bit like other games that use slightly slower movement. Maybe another notch or two might place it into modern FPS games, but with that seemingly apparent acceleration, that might be a bad idea if going for accuracy, so leaving it at default, or + or - one notch might be the best range.

But like I said, I am being honest when I say there is no delay. Watching those videos, delay was apparent. But even then, I went into this play session with the notion of looking for delay, and I still found none. When I look for flaws I can find them, but I rarely put myself into that mindset to avoid creating a negative experience. But like I said, I looked, and still found none.

Now, I am wondering what the issue is. I am still pretty persistent on the idea it might be the A/V equipment. With modern technology, using HDMI, delays are possible and somewhat frequent for some. With the notion that it seems those who complain of a delay have not experienced any in other games, it compounds the problem into the bizarre. I'm assuming this would be the only game that the delay is experienced. So, it might be the way the coding in the game is, its far more sensitive to a delay than other games, or doesn't try and correct any that might naturally occur. I don't know.

But, let's look at this like a troubleshooting problem:

- Running latest firmware?
- DualShock 3 controllers, and not just SixAxis?
- Fully charged controller?
- HDMI? Hooked up to a receiver or straight to TV?
- Lag in any others games that had to be corrected? Rock Band/RB2?

Yet strange, I've had to correct for A/V lag in both Rock Band games, but not noticing any in this game.

I just went back and added 'fully charged controller' to the troubleshooting list. Because as strange as it sounds, I want to say that I might have experienced a slight delay my first play-through of the K2 demo. It didn't seem like a large input lag, but it seemed to slow down the play. Maybe now that I've adjusted (very quickly) to the game, or something else... but my second play through, it seemed much snappier. And granted, I only moved the sensitivity (once I was already in the game) up one notch for both X and Y. I cannot imagine a single notch changes speed THAT much to move it from being "slow" to comparatively snappy. But the only difference in the two play sessions, the first one and just now, was the fact that I had a fully charged controller the second session. First session it was a new controller I picked up and had only been charged shortly, I had 2 bars on it.

 

[Industrial]

AWESOME!!!!! It was an extremely immersive experience and they did a great job in "getting you into" the action.

I'd have to say it was probably the most immersive console FPS I played. Seriously! I prefer FPS on PC, but since last year, I've been playing more FPS on my PS3 and 360. Broke a few game controllers from the "left stick sprints", heheheheee. What I'm trying to say is that I play quite a bit and have a pretty good general idea of the FPS that is out there, and how the play/mechanics/buttons...etc, is generally expected to work. So there's no console fanboyism here, as I play pretty much on both. I use CoD, Halo and GoW as examples simply because it's well known and generally people have played one/all of them.

I keep reading people comparing this to CoD and it doesn't play like CoD, it doesn't aim like CoD. Well, this isn't CoD, get over it. If it did everything similar to CoD, then this would just be another generic shooter. You'll be hearing people calling this Killzone World at War!!! I know that CoD is generally the gold standard, so naturally comparisons were expected to happen.

It was CoD4 that got me into console FPS. (Un)Fortunately however you want to look at it, games that I played after kind of sucked. As an example, when I finally got around to playing Halo 3, I thought the controls and gameplay sucked in multiplayer. Just hop around, grenade spam, hop some more, and you can't even sprint! The controls felt floaty and movement was slow. So after the initial disappointment, I bought Gears of War thinking it would be fun and got it 4 days after getting Halo. Nope! After all the initial eye candy graphics, that's it. It wasn't until after I stopped expecting it to be CoD:Halo and CoD:Gears, and took the game for itself, and learn to play how the developers wanted you to play it, that I started having fun. Heck, I played Halo this weekend for some quick fun

The biggest gripe from people seems to be this aiming lag. I couldn't aim either initially. It took the third time playing to actually get it, and it became a non-issue. It didn't matter whether my aim sensitivity was set at default or bumped to the max. It took a few plays through the short demo to get the hang of it. Initially I didn't have any problems when the targets are in the initial point of view, and you just scoot over to the next target. I can see how some people can get frustrated and it's when you go more than 90 degrees over or you have to spin around to the next target and you overshoot the mark. I think you'll eventually get use to the controls and you won't over aim the mark. So it will become more natural and a non-issue later. I still think this "slow" and then accelarated response is by design for the game mechanics and experience, which I'll get into later.

The cover mechanics is very well implemented. I know some said it was faulty or doesn't work right. I think if you expect to be able to peep out the side/top to shoot them and not get hit, that's not going to happen. If you can see them, then they can see you! Duh! Or if you take cover behind a short object, then yeah, they can pop you in the head. Think about it. If your whole screen is covered by an object while pressing cover, you can be sure that you are fully behind it. Only downside is if you are taking cover thinking you are tight into it, then the enemy takes an angle on you, and can hit you. I think this will play more into multiplayer, so you're not just sitting there hiding, but forced to look/peek around, and forces you to move around. This is a positive I think and should add to the overall experience.

Grenades - the visual indicator to cook them before throwing it was a nice touch. Also when they are thrown at you, you can at least see and hear where they land, which if they didn't cook it long enough, will give you a chance to get away. One of my annoyances in other FPS games, is if you didn't see the little black grenades initially, you end up just standing there and then boom, you're dead. Which just encourages grenade spamming.

Give me custom button mapping damn it!!! Yeah, I chose alt 2 as well. After a few times playing through it, I got use to the button mapping. Popping in and out of cover and aiming with index on L1 and middle finger on L2 became natural. My hands may be larger than some players, so I didn't have a problem doing this.

Just for fun, when I got into the warehouse area, I just went to melee all the Helghast. A little hard, but with the rush, cover, rush and then running on top of them to bunker them, was pretty satisfying. Try it. Also, before going into the warehouse, after shooting all the Helghast, start shooting and killing your team. They'll shoot back and you can have a little more challenging battle. The guys with helmets will die, but your squadmates without the helmets will get knocked down and ask for help. Funny.

In my opinion, I think the gamestyle like others have mentioned is a push cover push play, instead of running in guns blazing. I'm glad the developers did a little something different and kind of make you rethink of how to approach it, thereby giving you a different experience instead of just a generic shooter with pretty visuals. So with the rush, cover mechanics, fire suppression and pop in and out of cover to hit your target, the "heavy" aim feel actually works for this type of game play and in my opinion is a non-issue for not having snappy fast aim response. Taking these individually may not work for some, but when looking at everything, and the gameplay experience in total, it works very very well. The review scores, as well as from Warcrow and Hans experience in my opinion is legit. Some people just need to get over that this isn't CoD, BF, R1(2), Halo...etc.


Hell yeah I'm keeping my pre-order!!!

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: Industrial
...The review scores, as well as from Warcrow and Hans experience in my opinion is legit...

The lag issue is also totally legit. I still stand by my opinion that the game, especially MP, will be great, but the lag needs to be fixed.

Lag =/= Weighty controls.

Lag =/= Realistic.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: Industrial
It was CoD4 that got me into console FPS. (Un)Fortunately however you want to look at it, games that I played after kind of sucked.

Well, that's what is happening with some people and the Killzone 2 demo. CoD4 was so good, like you said earlier, it is the current gold standard to compare everything to.

I still think this "slow" and then accelarated response is by design for the game mechanics and experience, which I'll get into later.

I never understood everyone's explanations of it being an "accelerated" response to the controls. To me, the controls feel perfectly fine besides the input delay.

The cover mechanics is very well implemented. I know some said it was faulty or doesn't work right. I think if you expect to be able to peep out the side/top to shoot them and not get hit, that's not going to happen. If you can see them, then they can see you! Duh!

That was me who said the cover system sucked after my first play through. After 5 or 6 play throughs, I think the Killzone 2 cover system is the worst I've used in any first person shooter to date. The problem is that you cannot peak out and shoot until you reach the end of a wall. On many, many occassions, reaching the end of the wall meant half of my body was sticking out even when I wasn't peaking around. So even if I was standing there and not peaking out, enemies in a roughly 180 degree line of sight can still hit me with relative ease. If I stay behind the wall, then I can't peak out, which makes cover pointless.

IMO, the cover system is completely broken, and I've even encountered a few bugs when I'm trying to peak and zoom at the same time. Occassionally it'll start twitching back and forth, not allowing me to do anything until I let go of everything on the controller and revert back to a normal stance.

Give me custom button mapping damn it!!! Yeah, I chose alt 2 as well. After a few times playing through it, I got use to the button mapping. Popping in and out of cover and aiming with index on L1 and middle finger on L2 became natural. My hands may be larger than some players, so I didn't have a problem doing this.

I'm actually fine with using two thumbs and 3 fingers to handle the Alt2 scheme when in cover (which I don't use often due to the note above). It's not too difficult at all.

Just for fun, when I got into the warehouse area, I just went to melee all the Helghast. A little hard, but with the rush, cover, rush and then running on top of them to bunker them, was pretty satisfying.

I found the Helghast were pretty good at sticking you with the butt of their rifle first when rushing them. I really liked that.

 

[Industrial]

Originally posted by: destrekor


Oh, and this is going to sound like a worn out argument. But I am being COMPLETELY HONEST when I say this.
I just played the demo a second time, and I was trying my hardest to acknowledge that a delay could be there. I'll try and record a video (cell phone, so it would suck) if someone really wants proof because they don't want to believe me... but there was ZERO delay. I mean ZERO.

Yeah, it's not prevalent, when you do short movements to aim, and make constant little adjustments, or when you do quick pop in and outs from cover. It is noticeable when you expect to whip your aim to the far sides, which gives that slow then accelerated pointing. I think that's to give you that heavy weighted down feeling they keep mentioning about. It was annoying at first, but I think people need to learn to not be so heavy handed when aiming.

When I tried to rush them and then melee them with the knife, at the times I missed, and when I tried to correct myself I would overspin missing them totally. Again, I got annoyed initially, but the more I played, the more it makes sense. If you are running around with 50+ lbs of gear, your initial movements is a little slow and once you get going, your momentum carries you, so you can't stop on a dime and expect to quickly correct yourself.

Again, these were all annoyances at first for me and I thought maybe I should cancel my preorder also, but the more I replayed the demo, the more I can appreciate what the developers were trying to do, and the different immersive experience they were trying to achieve, so it's not just another FPS.

To use an analogy, it's more like a sim than an arcade, as in, it's more like Gran Turismo, than it is like Burnout Paradise. Not everyone likes GT, and not everyone likes BP, but both are fun. I'm saying KZ2 is more like GT when it's put in that perspective.

It's already hard to bring radical innovation to a FPS game. The next best thing to separate you from the crowd is to give you a different experience. It works for me.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Industrial

Originally posted by: destrekor


Oh, and this is going to sound like a worn out argument. But I am being COMPLETELY HONEST when I say this.
I just played the demo a second time, and I was trying my hardest to acknowledge that a delay could be there. I'll try and record a video (cell phone, so it would suck) if someone really wants proof because they don't want to believe me... but there was ZERO delay. I mean ZERO.

Yeah, it's not prevalent, when you do short movements to aim, and make constant little adjustments, or when you do quick pop in and outs from cover. It is noticeable when you expect to whip your aim to the far sides, which gives that slow then accelerated pointing. I think that's to give you that heavy weighted down feeling they keep mentioning about. It was annoying at first, but I think people need to learn to not be so heavy handed when aiming.

When I tried to rush them and then melee them with the knife, at the times I missed, and when I tried to correct myself I would overspin missing them totally. Again, I got annoyed initially, but the more I played, the more it makes sense. If you are running around with 50+ lbs of gear, your initial movements is a little slow and once you get going, your momentum carries you, so you can't stop on a dime and expect to quickly correct yourself.

Again, these were all annoyances at first for me and I thought maybe I should cancel my preorder also, but the more I replayed the demo, the more I can appreciate what the developers were trying to do, and the different immersive experience they were trying to achieve, so it's not just another FPS.

To use an analogy, it's more like a sim than an arcade, as in, it's more like Gran Turismo, than it is like Burnout Paradise. Not everyone likes GT, and not everyone likes BP, but both are fun. I'm saying KZ2 is more like GT when it's put in that perspective.

It's already hard to bring radical innovation to a FPS game. The next best thing to separate you from the crowd is to give you a different experience. It works for me.

Well, my discussion of 'delay'/'lag' has nothing to do with the aiming speed.
I am finding I am adjusting to it quite well, and have no qualms with it. And honestly it doesn't seem too many people have any issue with it either. Needing time to adjust is one thing, but hating the game due to slower aiming speed is wholly different.

What I was discussing, and what seems to not be something you experienced either, was some people experiencing an input lag. In this situation, what that means is some people go to aim, but they don't see any onscreen adjustment, absolutely none, until maybe a quarter to half of a second later.
Doesn't seem everyone is experiencing this, but seems strangely a prevalent issue.

From the handful of people in this very thread discussing it, to numerous complaints (and counter-arguments of it) on the official playstation forums, as well as the Killzone 2 forums iirc, it seems like a problem numerous people are experiencing.
But I don't know where the problem lies. Because as I just said, I definitely didn't experience any delay between pulling on the stick and it moving. I'm not talking about the adjustment being so small its barely noticeable, because if you just tap the stick the adjustment on screen is extremely minute, which I like. But if someone pulls the stick all the way to the edge, they should definitely see movement on screen. Hell, even just tapping it, there is a definitive adjustment of aiming on screen. Or pulling the trigger and it firing. These very same people notice that after pulling the trigger, the shot wasn't fired until maybe a quarter to half a second later.
I didn't have any of those problems. The moment I press a button, whatever is supposed to happen, happens immediately.

Did you have any of these problems? I'm trying to lend a hand here in trying to troubleshoot what the problem might be. It'll make it easier here than on the official game and playstation forums, because some of the people there are either claiming any delay is intentional and realistic, or flat out doesn't happen and the people claiming so are blind idiots.

I mean, I was on that same side of the argument until someone here posted a video someone else took to capture a very real input lag in the demo. Once I saw that, I saw what people were actually complaining about, and not just the initially slow and minute aiming adjustments. But since I am not experiencing that input lag at all, I am both perplexed and intrigued as to what the root of the problem is.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Industrial

Originally posted by: destrekor


Oh, and this is going to sound like a worn out argument. But I am being COMPLETELY HONEST when I say this.
I just played the demo a second time, and I was trying my hardest to acknowledge that a delay could be there. I'll try and record a video (cell phone, so it would suck) if someone really wants proof because they don't want to believe me... but there was ZERO delay. I mean ZERO.

Yeah, it's not prevalent, when you do short movements to aim, and make constant little adjustments, or when you do quick pop in and outs from cover. It is noticeable when you expect to whip your aim to the far sides, which gives that slow then accelerated pointing. I think that's to give you that heavy weighted down feeling they keep mentioning about. It was annoying at first, but I think people need to learn to not be so heavy handed when aiming.

When I tried to rush them and then melee them with the knife, at the times I missed, and when I tried to correct myself I would overspin missing them totally. Again, I got annoyed initially, but the more I played, the more it makes sense. If you are running around with 50+ lbs of gear, your initial movements is a little slow and once you get going, your momentum carries you, so you can't stop on a dime and expect to quickly correct yourself.

Again, these were all annoyances at first for me and I thought maybe I should cancel my preorder also, but the more I replayed the demo, the more I can appreciate what the developers were trying to do, and the different immersive experience they were trying to achieve, so it's not just another FPS.

To use an analogy, it's more like a sim than an arcade, as in, it's more like Gran Turismo, than it is like Burnout Paradise. Not everyone likes GT, and not everyone likes BP, but both are fun. I'm saying KZ2 is more like GT when it's put in that perspective.

It's already hard to bring radical innovation to a FPS game. The next best thing to separate you from the crowd is to give you a different experience. It works for me.

Well, my discussion of 'delay'/'lag' has nothing to do with the aiming speed.
I am finding I am adjusting to it quite well, and have no qualms with it. And honestly it doesn't seem too many people have any issue with it either. Needing time to adjust is one thing, but hating the game due to slower aiming speed is wholly different.

What I was discussing, and what seems to not be something you experienced either, was some people experiencing an input lag. In this situation, what that means is some people go to aim, but they don't see any onscreen adjustment, absolutely none, until maybe a quarter to half of a second later.
Doesn't seem everyone is experiencing this, but seems strangely a prevalent issue.

From the handful of people in this very thread discussing it, to numerous complaints (and counter-arguments of it) on the official playstation forums, as well as the Killzone 2 forums iirc, it seems like a problem numerous people are experiencing.
But I don't know where the problem lies. Because as I just said, I definitely didn't experience any delay between pulling on the stick and it moving. I'm not talking about the adjustment being so small its barely noticeable, because if you just tap the stick the adjustment on screen is extremely minute, which I like. But if someone pulls the stick all the way to the edge, they should definitely see movement on screen. Hell, even just tapping it, there is a definitive adjustment of aiming on screen. Or pulling the trigger and it firing. These very same people notice that after pulling the trigger, the shot wasn't fired until maybe a quarter to half a second later.
I didn't have any of those problems. The moment I press a button, whatever is supposed to happen, happens immediately.

Did you have any of these problems? I'm trying to lend a hand here in trying to troubleshoot what the problem might be. It'll make it easier here than on the official game and playstation forums, because some of the people there are either claiming any delay is intentional and realistic, or flat out doesn't happen and the people claiming so are blind idiots.

I mean, I was on that same side of the argument until someone here posted a video someone else took to capture a very real input lag in the demo. Once I saw that, I saw what people were actually complaining about, and not just the initially slow and minute aiming adjustments. But since I am not experiencing that input lag at all, I am both perplexed and intrigued as to what the root of the problem is.

Are you aware how short a quarter of a second is?

My take on this is that everyone HAS this but not everyone SEES this, I definitely see it but it doesn't bother me, after a while you just phase it out.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Industrial

Originally posted by: destrekor


Oh, and this is going to sound like a worn out argument. But I am being COMPLETELY HONEST when I say this.
I just played the demo a second time, and I was trying my hardest to acknowledge that a delay could be there. I'll try and record a video (cell phone, so it would suck) if someone really wants proof because they don't want to believe me... but there was ZERO delay. I mean ZERO.

Yeah, it's not prevalent, when you do short movements to aim, and make constant little adjustments, or when you do quick pop in and outs from cover. It is noticeable when you expect to whip your aim to the far sides, which gives that slow then accelerated pointing. I think that's to give you that heavy weighted down feeling they keep mentioning about. It was annoying at first, but I think people need to learn to not be so heavy handed when aiming.

When I tried to rush them and then melee them with the knife, at the times I missed, and when I tried to correct myself I would overspin missing them totally. Again, I got annoyed initially, but the more I played, the more it makes sense. If you are running around with 50+ lbs of gear, your initial movements is a little slow and once you get going, your momentum carries you, so you can't stop on a dime and expect to quickly correct yourself.

Again, these were all annoyances at first for me and I thought maybe I should cancel my preorder also, but the more I replayed the demo, the more I can appreciate what the developers were trying to do, and the different immersive experience they were trying to achieve, so it's not just another FPS.

To use an analogy, it's more like a sim than an arcade, as in, it's more like Gran Turismo, than it is like Burnout Paradise. Not everyone likes GT, and not everyone likes BP, but both are fun. I'm saying KZ2 is more like GT when it's put in that perspective.

It's already hard to bring radical innovation to a FPS game. The next best thing to separate you from the crowd is to give you a different experience. It works for me.

Well, my discussion of 'delay'/'lag' has nothing to do with the aiming speed.
I am finding I am adjusting to it quite well, and have no qualms with it. And honestly it doesn't seem too many people have any issue with it either. Needing time to adjust is one thing, but hating the game due to slower aiming speed is wholly different.

What I was discussing, and what seems to not be something you experienced either, was some people experiencing an input lag. In this situation, what that means is some people go to aim, but they don't see any onscreen adjustment, absolutely none, until maybe a quarter to half of a second later.
Doesn't seem everyone is experiencing this, but seems strangely a prevalent issue.

From the handful of people in this very thread discussing it, to numerous complaints (and counter-arguments of it) on the official playstation forums, as well as the Killzone 2 forums iirc, it seems like a problem numerous people are experiencing.
But I don't know where the problem lies. Because as I just said, I definitely didn't experience any delay between pulling on the stick and it moving. I'm not talking about the adjustment being so small its barely noticeable, because if you just tap the stick the adjustment on screen is extremely minute, which I like. But if someone pulls the stick all the way to the edge, they should definitely see movement on screen. Hell, even just tapping it, there is a definitive adjustment of aiming on screen. Or pulling the trigger and it firing. These very same people notice that after pulling the trigger, the shot wasn't fired until maybe a quarter to half a second later.
I didn't have any of those problems. The moment I press a button, whatever is supposed to happen, happens immediately.

Did you have any of these problems? I'm trying to lend a hand here in trying to troubleshoot what the problem might be. It'll make it easier here than on the official game and playstation forums, because some of the people there are either claiming any delay is intentional and realistic, or flat out doesn't happen and the people claiming so are blind idiots.

I mean, I was on that same side of the argument until someone here posted a video someone else took to capture a very real input lag in the demo. Once I saw that, I saw what people were actually complaining about, and not just the initially slow and minute aiming adjustments. But since I am not experiencing that input lag at all, I am both perplexed and intrigued as to what the root of the problem is.

Are you aware how short a quarter of a second is?

My take on this is that everyone HAS this but not everyone SEES this, I definitely see it but it doesn't bother me, after a while you just phase it out.

It can be short but can be long when you expect something not in a quarter of a second but instantaneously.

But I was mostly referring to the video posted earlier in the thread. I wasn't trying to time it, so I don't know how long the lag was.

But what I'm saying: I see ZERO delay. Maybe there is the very real few millisecond lag you'll have naturally when dealing with artificial interfaces going through bluetooth and then coding language, but nobody notices that in games.
What we're talking here is a very noticeable input lag. Something that I do not experience. I push a button, it happens on screen. I was actually playing around for a few moments, just knowing I pushed a button but not looking at the controller, and seeing what happened onscreen after a button press or analog stick flick. Needless to say, everything happened with no input lag. When I did something on the controller, whatever was supposed to happen on-screen happened at that moment.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: Industrial
Yeah, it's not prevalent, when you do short movements to aim, and make constant little adjustments, or when you do quick pop in and outs from cover. It is noticeable when you expect to whip your aim to the far sides, which gives that slow then accelerated pointing. I think that's to give you that heavy weighted down feeling they keep mentioning about. It was annoying at first, but I think people need to learn to not be so heavy handed when aiming.

When I tried to rush them and then melee them with the knife, at the times I missed, and when I tried to correct myself I would overspin missing them totally. Again, I got annoyed initially, but the more I played, the more it makes sense. If you are running around with 50+ lbs of gear, your initial movements is a little slow and once you get going, your momentum carries you, so you can't stop on a dime and expect to quickly correct yourself.

The input delay and sensitivity of the movements are two completely different things. Almost everyone is getting this confused. Some will complain about input delay, and someone else will respond that it's "realistic" and "weighty".

If you want to talk about movement being slow, then ya, your guy has a lot of shit he's wearing. But if you want to talk about input delay, you could use the argument that the guy you control is mentally retarded. Hmmm, maybe if the Killzone devs put into the story lore that Sev is autistic or something, the fanboys would start using that as an excuse...

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: Industrial
Yeah, it's not prevalent, when you do short movements to aim, and make constant little adjustments, or when you do quick pop in and outs from cover. It is noticeable when you expect to whip your aim to the far sides, which gives that slow then accelerated pointing. I think that's to give you that heavy weighted down feeling they keep mentioning about. It was annoying at first, but I think people need to learn to not be so heavy handed when aiming.

When I tried to rush them and then melee them with the knife, at the times I missed, and when I tried to correct myself I would overspin missing them totally. Again, I got annoyed initially, but the more I played, the more it makes sense. If you are running around with 50+ lbs of gear, your initial movements is a little slow and once you get going, your momentum carries you, so you can't stop on a dime and expect to quickly correct yourself.

The input delay and sensitivity of the movements are two completely different things. Almost everyone is getting this confused. Some will complain about input delay, and someone else will respond that it's "realistic" and "weighty".

If you want to talk about movement being slow, then ya, your guy has a lot of shit he's wearing. But if you want to talk about input delay, you could use the argument that the guy you control is mentally retarded. Hmmm, maybe if the Killzone devs put into the story lore that Sev is autistic or something, the fanboys would start using that as an excuse...

... have you READ my recent posts?

I'm trying to figure out the reason. As I said.. I have NO delay. I push button - something happens. Immediately.

We need to poll this pretty intensely, and try and get it to the devs. Maybe I'll set up something on the official PS forums, because this is kind of annoying. I don't know why some experience the delay and some do not.

Because like I said, I went into my second demo session today with an open mind, and actually spent a few moments trying to test for a delay. I came up with nothing, not during testing, and not during actual play.