*** OFFICIAL MATRIX RELOADED AFTERMATH THREAD *** spoilers

[Kitros]

Hey crazygal

Originally posted by: Kitros
Here's a quick thought...

If Morpheus said they had been fighting at Zion for 100 years, and Zion started off with 23 people... that would mean that Zion's population should be around 8-12,000 if each woman had at least 3 offspring and the average lifespan was 60 years. But, as most people shown were 20-30, that would mean there were even less people.

And what of the developement? 23 people start a civilization... in ruins? In the dust of the old city? Do they hollow out another area or move to a different cave system? That seems like a lot of growth for so few people, but they do have quick learning abilities - plug'n'learn, so the know-how wouldn't be that hard. It just seems unrealistic to have built such a city in such time...

Or maybe the machines just kill people, leaving the city intact - ready for the next city - but wouldn't that have raised a LOT of questions in regards to "hey, I thought WE were the first ones out..."

Or maybe the Architect was lying about different versions.

Or maybe it's a 2nd matrix.

Or maybe OUR machines inserted this movie to make us put out more brain power thus giving them a boost in energy... =P

I asked it on page 12.

 

[littlegohan]

reloaded is shvt compare to the original matrix

too much cgi , and not very good plot

the conversation with the architect is confusing, but what from I gathered, neo is just a program, design to carry out a function

and zion is also part of the matrix.
ppl living in zion are just in the second layer of the matrix

 

[crazygal]

Ah, good deal Kitros. We both are thinking of the exact same thing...I just hope it's answered in the next one, if not I'll cry

 

[tbdbitlq7]

I think it's too easy to say that the Zion world is "real" or a "second matrix". I think that perhaps the "real" world can be thought of as a matrix. After all, we cannot say what is possible or impossible if we do not know everything about how the world works. When Neo is able to stop the centinels, perhaps we get a glimpse of the fact that he can manipulate the real world in the same way he can manipulate the Matrix. I think that the Architect told him that he was part of a cycle because he was afraid Neo would use his powers against the robots in the "real" world.

 

[FlashG]

My son and I saw it last night and we both liked it. I thought that it was a very thought provoking and entertaining movie. But one thing I we noticed was the heavily ?ethnically biased ? cast. Look at the population of Zion for instance.

Don?t get me wrong I liked the acting but why were their only a handful of European American types. And they were mostly in charge or the bad guys.

I have also noticed this stereotyping trend with Blade, an obvious black-targeted movie and others. What gives?

Forgive if this was previously discussed but I don?t have time to read over 650 posts. And I am not looking to pi$$ anyone off so no flames OK?

 

[Luagsch]

Originally posted by: Kitros
Hey crazygal

Originally posted by: Kitros
Here's a quick thought...

If Morpheus said they had been fighting at Zion for 100 years, and Zion started off with 23 people... that would mean that Zion's population should be around 8-12,000 if each woman had at least 3 offspring and the average lifespan was 60 years. But, as most people shown were 20-30, that would mean there were even less people.

And what of the developement? 23 people start a civilization... in ruins? In the dust of the old city? Do they hollow out another area or move to a different cave system? That seems like a lot of growth for so few people, but they do have quick learning abilities - plug'n'learn, so the know-how wouldn't be that hard. It just seems unrealistic to have built such a city in such time...

Or maybe the machines just kill people, leaving the city intact - ready for the next city - but wouldn't that have raised a LOT of questions in regards to "hey, I thought WE were the first ones out..."

I asked it on page 12.

1. you're missing a point here. not all of zion is home-made like tank and dozer. the most of them where freed from the matrix. and as in the last 6 month a lot of them where freed and after some age it becomes difficult to let go it's not wendering that the most are so young.

2. 250k sentinels were send for 250k people. the new 23 would knew (and axept the fact) but shut up. bringing an excuse for the big city with a few people would not be the problem. as also the old counsil guy says, that almost nobody knows how to operate the big machines under zion.

3. also i guess that the counsil is buld of people chosen by the one before neo, as the old guy points out, that he believes that machines and humans have to co-exist. (implying what i said under 2.

4. so zion is not a second matrix but a system in the real world still under control of the machines. they know where it is, but the architect only sends them out when a certain limit of people is reached (thinking garbage collector). the number of people in zion increases specially when the one manifested himself. and so the precess of debuging is started.

5. i think that over the time the matrix changed the form of control. the reason for that is, that over the time the architect or the oracle must have encountred, that people need a purpuse and that this is driven by choice. so the oracle gives the mission including the french guy as mini-boss (as persiphone pointed out long time ago he was like neo. so after fighting firstly seraph, protector of the oracle, the programs are triggered for the next level/mission. overcome mini-boss french-guy to get the keymaker (i believe that in every iteration of the matrix the story went quite the same. implied by the oracle and not by the architect). so overcomming all hurdles pointed out by the programs the game is beaten and has to be restarted (think also movie "supernova"-style: if something gets to powerfull you have to get rid of it). somehow the machine/programs have to entertain the humans that don't accept the matrix as reality. give them a purpose and some kind of a choice.

6. as neo didn't go into the source and restarting the "game" the system is out of bounds. a critical error ocured and (as the programs/machines computed) humanity would be destroyed.

7. if neo entered the source the war would be over. zion would be removed from the people, the matrix recompiled, 23 people chosen and the next iteration would begin (starting the NEXT war).

8. i think the rave-party was fighter-dance like some tribals still party before they go to war or hunt (no energy-rising or so)

9. the ghosts survived as after the explosion you see them burst away and then changing their form.

10. i think the key maker has a much more important role then asumed. he being deleted means, that either he was respawned every time the matrix was (how else would the one reach the architect). the agents want him because he holds the keys of the encrypted zones where the rouges hide themselfs (the agents being control-programs want to delete rogues).

11. seraph is in golden code because he is from a previous iteration of the matrix (different code) the cake from the french guy also had that yellow glow (and you never see an other rouge in code form).

12. big assumption here, but let me try: neo could stop the sentinels because their programing didn't involve meeting the one (as he supposely would be in the core). so this logical flaw (the one still being around, but not supposed to be there causes a bsod)

just my 2 cents here

(i'm still pondering about neo going into coma (also smith). my guess is that in the end of revolutions the two will kind of merge (think ghost in the shell style). but that doesn't explain anything about the coma. the end will probably be coexisstance where humans can chose if the want to be in the matrix or not. exacly the choice that cypher wanted to have. (just guessing here)

some things i noticed:

- although cgi was awesome there are 3-4 times where i really saw some curious things, one being a truck missing the axis)
- i thought that in the first movie all plug-holes except the one on the backside of the head were removed, but in the everyone seemed to still have the other plugs (neo, trinity, morpheus for sure).
- the feeling of speed gave me the shivers trinity on the bike and neo flying.
- in the fight scenes the cuts are much longer than in matrix 1 meaning that the actors (specialy reeves) had to memorize much more moves for one take, i thought it was briliant, as i hate fast cut fights, cause normaly they just hide the flaws of the fight

 

[kmac1914]

Originally posted by: FlashG
My son and I saw it last night and we both liked it. I thought that it was a very thought provoking and entertaining movie. But one thing I we noticed was the heavily ?ethnically biased ? cast. Look at the population of Zion for instance.

Don?t get me wrong I liked the acting but why were their only a handful of European American types. And they were mostly in charge or the bad guys.

I have also noticed this stereotyping trend with Blade, an obvious black-targeted movie and others. What gives?

Forgive if this was previously discussed but I don?t have time to read over 650 posts. And I am not looking to pi$$ anyone off so no flames OK?

Well, I know that with Blade at least, it was based on the comic, and so the so-called "ethnic bias" was something that was carried over from the book.

A lot of other people have also noticed this about the Matrix, and there were several potential reasons why that could be the case. The most humorous one was in a link someone posted earlier in the thread that said something to the effect of 'of course there were more people of color in zion...if you were driving your Matrix SUV to your Matrix golf club, you wouldn't think anything was wrong with reality either.'

 

[wviperw]

Don?t get me wrong I liked the acting but why were their only a handful of European American types. And they were mostly in charge or the bad guys

The Wascowski brothers definately intended it to be that way. To put it bluntly, it portrays how things really have happened throughout recent history. The white race in history has tended to be the "controlling" ones and "oppress" the other races just like what happens in the movie with the Agents and so on.

 

[FlashG]

Originally posted by: wviperw

Don?t get me wrong I liked the acting but why were their only a handful of European American types. And they were mostly in charge or the bad guys

The Wascowski brothers definately intended it to be that way. To put it bluntly, it portrays how things really have happened throughout recent history. The white race in history has tended to be the "controlling" ones and "oppress" the other races just like what happens in the movie with the Agents and so on.

True

I'm beginning to understand why there are over 650 posts on this topic. The subject matter is much deeper than usual for mass entertainment fluff and buff.

 

[spliffstar69]

From everything i have been reading im starting to consider the conclusion being after everyting is figured out and understood there will be one Big Bang end of story start all over again?

Also Quoted from the review "Cast members, who obviously know what happens in The Matrix Revolutions, have made it clear that there are no boxes within boxes."
So everyone with the second layer of the matrix theory this might not close the door on that till the movies out but its almost shut.

 

[BennyD]

just got back from seeing it (opened today in the UK) and these are my observations

Good points

# More fight sequences.
Obviously the WB responded to the feedback from the first film.

# More "realistic" fighting
Although the film featured amazingly elaborate and coreographed scenes, the scenes were far more "realistic".
the sound effects were much more subtle, less like the slapstick 70's martial arts movies and more in keeping with the style of the film.
the wire work was excellent, there were only a few moments when trickery was obvious (to me).

# Amazing CGI scenes
The CGI was well worth all the cash they spent on it, pissed all over the CGI used in the hulk.
i was worried after seeing the trailers that the effects would look hulklike but after seeing it on the big screen it is obvious that the trailers (tv/internet) do not do the effects justice.

# Good storyline
When the movie got to the point in which the main 3 have to get to the source, i was almost straining in anticipation of a huge cliche but thankfully was gladly let down.
i would have to say i found this film roughly 15% more confusing than the last (the original didn't really confuse me, i got all but the most vague/distant references/ideas) but all the confusing/interesting storylines were nicely contrasted by the exhilarating speeches and amazing fight scenes.
the storyline also made me think quite a bit, which is rare in an action movie, the most significant example i can think of now is bluff/double bluff with the oracle, is the prophecy true or not? is the oracle on the side of the humans or the matrix (architect)?

# Believable storyline
I have no idea why but i always enjoy films that manage to create a totally believable world, then proceeed to explain almost every niggle that develops in my mind, this was no exception, almost everything i saw was explained, appart from the cliffhangar, but i'm not sure i was supposed to get that part yet.

# Humour
I felt there was more homour in this film, although very subtle, still was a nice break from action.



Bad points

# Some bad cgi
In perticular, the scenes involving the "loader" type machines (ripped straight from aliens), they looked like realtime rendering by a gba.

# Characters
A lot of the characters were not explained very well, especially the mouse-alike.
i noticed that this almost instant introduction of characters was countered by the WBs by other characters referring to them by name when we first see them (nairobi, link ect), so at least they were aware of the problem.

# Cliffhanger
Obviously it's a trilogy so it can't all be explained halfway through but it still annoys me having to wait almost 6 months for the conclusion is a tad annoying.

Conclusion

See this film, if you have to sell your own mother to do so, make sure you sell a cousin or something for some snacks while you watch

seriously, i found this film better than the first which only got better the more times i watched it.
the wachowskis have surpassed themselves and all other directors.
whether this will be a good or a bad thing will be interesting, as this film is so far ahead of it's time, i wonder if anyone should even bother making films of this type any more.
also, because of the huge amount of spin-offs/parodies after the first film hit, now they have made a film so hard to copy that i doubt anyone will have the resources (money or time) to compete.
i cannot wait to have this in my DVD collection and i'm sure it will be ontop of the pile for a good few weeks.

well done Andy and Larry for thier excellent work in making this film my bestest action film evar.

PS. if you haven't seen the film yet, get the heck out of this thread and see it.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: The Dancing Peacock

Originally posted by: Marauder-
Oh yeah - and would the Agent Smith in the *real world* be like a biblical Judas - trying to betray Jesus (Neo)?

well, Cypher in the first one did it to him once. Not 40 pieces of silver, but a steak dinner and no memory of the matrix not being "real"

I can't remember the Bible, but didn't Jesus say that the night he was crucifed he'd be betrayed 3 times? 2 down, 1 to go

No. Thats Jesus telling Peter that he will betray him 3 times. He will deny that he knows Jesus 3 times.


onwards with reading this 7 page thread!

 

[Kitros]

psssy - it's 14 pages

 

[kmac1914]

Originally posted by: BennyD
just got back from seeing it (opened today in the UK) and these are my observations


# Characters
A lot of the characters were not explained very well, especially the mouse-alike.
i noticed that this almost instant introduction of characters was countered by the WBs by other characters referring to them by name when we first see them (nairobi, link ect), so at least they were aware of the problem.

As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, some issues such as this are resolved with the other two parts to the so called Matrix puzzle; the animatrix, and the video game. Having done all 3, i have to give it to the Wachowskis.

 

[johneetrash]

Originally posted by: Kitros
psssy - it's 14 pages

well it depends on how many posts per page you have it set on

i have 7 too

 

[whateverdude]

I disagree with the Oracle not believing in Neo. Actually she predicted it right when she said in the first movie that you are NOT the One at least not in this life maybe the NEXT or something to that effect.

neo: im not the one
O: sorry kid, youve got the gift...but it seems like your waiting for something.
neo: what
O: another life perhaps, I dont know.

that makes total sense, good catch. he doesnt become the one until after he comes back to life after being killed by smith.

btw, I can actually say I read through this entire thread, all the way up to this point.

 

[brigden]

I just came back from seeing the film.

Unbelievable. I was blown away. It was everything I could have asked for and it never let me down. Thoroughly enjoyable.

What a kick-ass movie.

 

[Tetsuo]

Originally posted by: brigden
I just came back from seeing the film. Unbelievable. I was blown away. It was everything I could have asked for and it never let me down. Thoroughly enjoyable. What a kick-ass movie.

You made the 666th post by saying that

I saw it on the weekend, I had goosebumps the entire movie, fscking fscking amazing.

 

[Krutoy]

I think one important part to remember, is that this is still a movie. The directors designed it this way so we go watch the 3rd movie. The more we dwell on it, the more we are wasting our own time. This movie won't be completely understood until we watched the 3rd episode, and they manage to pull another $100 million on a weekend. I agree with a lot of the posts here, but I also have to remember that this is just a movie, and by trying to spend hours to make sense of everything we are just wasting our time, as the directors have the ultimate control over what happens and not us=).

 

[BennyD]

it looks to me like that asian guy is more important than they are letting on, he is the only person/program that has ever showed up in different coloured code.

i think he might be the first person to awake from the matrix, the original "one".
when neo enters the room he appears to be medatating, if he was doing this then he might have been aware that the electrical impulses he was getting were from the matrix, not reality, he might have been able to pickup the tiny insignificant senses from the real world that the body had learnt to ignore from an early age and in turn, send out impulses past the recievers used by the matrix to his muscles thereby awaking in his tub of goo.

i can only think that when he did awake he must have had similar "powers" to the ones neo demonstrates (stopping squiddies, if that was him not an EMP) in order to escape being "flushed".

is the architect a program? or is he human?

if he is human, that would explain why he made mistakes with the other matrices

i'm not sure that what he says is actually the truth, they may do another "he told you what you needed to hear" on us.

think about the movies title....

"Reloaded". I think this is referring to the matrix being "reloaded" and starting again, something that the architect menthions in his speech.

as for neo not being the one, the oracle tells him he is waiting for something, another life perhaps.
he becomes the one after he dies and comes back to life.

 

[BennyD]

Originally posted by: Luagsch

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: MC Webster
Hey guys, this was posted on the official Matrix website today:

"THE MATRIX: RELOADED covers a lot of ground. The future brings sections on visual effects, the ships, the creatures, the stunts, and much more. All things evolve. For those that understand this, perhaps the following will be understood.

0xA3B1A428

For the above hex, you will need a fairly fast computer and graphics card. An appreciation of the Neb is not a prerequisite (but it helps)."

What does this mean? What does that code mean? Also, the A3B1 part in italics is hidden on the website, and can only be seen when the text is highlighted. Why are they trying to hide that?

http://progressive1.stream.aol.com/wb/gl/wbonline/progressive/thematrix/us/med/va_win.exe

does that link work?
looks like it's a "hack code" for the ENTER THE MATRIX video game.

actually no. it's a hack for the thing online. first on the menu of the matrix home-page klick the yellow dot on the right end. then the button next to "low bandwith". now you are in the first hack-phase. klick the binary-tab to get 01101111 and enter. now you are in the second hack-level which is hex (0x) here klick the switches to get A3B1A428 and enter. now you have reached the nebu model-kit (recommendet p4 1,5 and 256 ram). the download for win is 46 mb. enjoy.

hehe

 

[damiano]

and how about that...
the cadillacs actually keep up with a ducati 900...
that's pretty fVcked up...
oh well

 

[BennyD]

when they talk about the "source", is this the source code that was used to create the matrix?

the architect says that neo carries the code within him, so is this why neo can control the matrix and defy the rules, because he carries the source code?

does that make the architect some kind of assembler program?
does he just run the matrix or does he run the entire race of machines?

as for this line:

...The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program....

dissemination means to scatter or disperse, so i think that neo carries something that is needed to reload the matrix.
if this is a piece of code then he must either be a program or they have found some way to transfer code/information to the human brain (supported by agent smiths "escape").

not much more can be determined from this line unless more information about the "code" and the "prime program" is given


in a way i really do hope that they don't try and say that there are many matrices as that would make the impact of the original far less knowing that everything neo sees when he "wakes up" is actually just another matrix.
that would be a very poor script choice which reminds me of that plot in dallas (i think) when a character wakes up and realises that the last (2 years of?) storyline had all been a dream.

i like the idea of the architect being the previous "one" or a likeness of, that would make sense.

in my opinion he is lying to neo in order to control him, control him to do what is hard to say.

 

[whateverdude]

wasnt A3B1 the name of the robot put on trial for turning on his master in second renaissance pt 1? the one who kinda started the machine rebellion.

 

[Alex]

omg i really didnt get this movie but ill be damned if im going to wade through the 650+ posts in this thread to find out... cliff notes anyone?