*** OFFICIAL MATRIX RELOADED AFTERMATH THREAD *** spoilers

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theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
3
81
Originally posted by: Marauder-
Originally posted by: johneetrash
Originally posted by: theNEOone
Originally posted by: DukeFan21

i like those quotes from trinity and tank!!! lots of foreshadowing there- that is, if neo really does turn out to be a program. i actually did notice that "101" reference. did you also realize that the highway scene takes place on interstate 101?

that's really a freeway here, but that's cool i totally forgot about the 101 connection to the freeway until u just said

It's not on the 101 - the Hwy was a small subsegment that was built north of San Francisco.


well, it's not the ACTUAL 101, but the contsructed segment was given the name "101." link calls it the 101, and there's a sign just before the cadillac reaches the highway. it's covered in dust at first, but it clears for a second and you can clearly see it labeled "101."
 

mkool

Member
Nov 16, 2001
43
0
0
I think an interesting note to make would be Neo's night-time discussion with the senator (in zion) in which they talked about dependence on the machines, and how control worked. They said, and i'm paraphrasing here, that the only true control is being able to turn them off (referring to the machines in Zion). Maybe if the real world is to be found in the next installment, this piece of knowledge will be used as evidence of true reality. Also, what's 101 in binary? any significance?
 

Furyline

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2001
1,212
0
0
binary 101 = 5 in base 10
there were 5 "the One"s before Neo...

base 10 101 = 1100101 in binary
I dont think that has any significance
 

Kitros

Golden Member
May 6, 2000
1,757
0
0
Originally posted by: mkool
I think an interesting note to make would be Neo's night-time discussion with the senator (in zion) in which they talked about dependence on the machines, and how control worked. They said, and i'm paraphrasing here, that the only true control is being able to turn them off (referring to the machines in Zion). Maybe if the real world is to be found in the next installment, this piece of knowledge will be used as evidence of true reality. Also, what's 101 in binary? any significance?

I could see where someone might try to flip the switch to see if the lights really go out...

Good call.
 

MovieWhore

Junior Member
May 18, 2003
10
0
0
hey, does ne1 know what the name of the track that plays during the garage fight against the twins right before mona lisa overdrive (car chase)? i dunno if it's on the album soundtrack...
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
It will be discovered in Matrix Evolutions, a light switch is sort of the reason there have been 5 previous matrix (matrices?)

A janitor named Juan (mistaken for the 'One'), keeps seeing a light left on upstairs in the office he cleans on every fourth friday....little does he know the whole mainframe is plugged into the same circuit....come Monday, Susie (the first one in the building) comes in early and sees the coffee maker has been turned off and flips the switch back on and in the other room, unknown to her, the mainframe reboots....so far the Computer Science guys think it's a monthly occurance trigger programatically and still can't figure it out....one day while all three (the 'Trinity') are working late and in the same room, they realize what has been happening....the mainframe and coffee maker get plugged into the top plugs (unswitched) and the credits roll.

 

MaxDSP

Lifer
May 15, 2001
10,056
0
71
Don't let this thread die...I still havent had a chance to see that damn movie yet. I havent read anything in this thread yet, but Ill come back to it after I see the movie
 

Vickas

Member
Jul 18, 2001
150
0
0
I reject the notion of matrix within matrix. That's the stuff of old cheesy sci-fi movies. I believe neo is a human, but the machines reprogrammed some parts of him at birth, this code made him feel there was something not right with the world. Later, when he died (in the first movie), they inserted the last piece of code which made him "The One." So he is fundamentally human (hence, his presence in the real world), but his purpose in the matrix is provided by the Architect, and the ability to do so.

Smith probably completely copied himself to the traitor from Zion. This probably is the reason both Neo and Smith (in the real world) went into a coma from the EMP, which Smith apparently set off accidentally. They were both part program.

There is no possible way for Neo or Smith to control the Sentinals from the real world, they can't broadcast their brain waves with enough power; if they could, they wouldn't need ships to hack into the Matrix.

Morpheus is not a Joseph figure. Joseph did not have the effect in the bible Morpheus does in the matrix. Joseph was only there in documentation of Jesus' Birth. Morpheus is more of a Prophetic figure, like John or Paul.

The Oracle is, likewise, not as of Mary. She is more like the Old Testament Prophet Isaiah. "She has been with us from the beginning..", "..of the resistance." Sounds like an older prophet, hm?

Obviously we aren't going to know the truth until Revolutions comes out in November.

Considering the title Reloaded refers to the fact that the matrix needs to be reloaded every so often (i was so glad that wasn't just a cheesy attempt at a hacker-like name for a sequal!!!!). I'm thinking Revolutions will have the people of Zion (no, they weren't wiped out yet, the machines were still digging at the end) will actually succeed this time, because of the actions of Neo when given his choice. Probably in previous matrices, the very fact that the One chooses the option to save humanity and restart the matrix, gives the machines the power to destroy Zion. Don't ask me how, I can't explain in detail. Maybe the opposite choice will take away that power. More from me on this later...

Also I do agree that Zion is another level of control, for the eventuality that not everybody will completely accept the program. (There's always a bug somewhere, no matter how perfect the program is). But it doesn't have to be another matrix. Because the machines are the dominant force on the earth, and the fact that the population of Zion is relatively low, the machines can keep it in check relatively easy (by way of the sentinals), it's not necessary to create a sub-matrix.

In reference to the tubes that lead to the pools of water from the bio pods in the powerplant. It's probably just an accomodation for the dead. A processing plant, so they could be liquified and "...fed intravenously to the living." Once a person is disconnected from the hard-wired matrix. They are sent there to the "dead body processing" area. It is once a person has apparently died, when they are able to bend the laws of physics, because they are not officially recognized as "programs constrained by the matrix' rules."

Maybe more from me later....gotta go do some homework.:disgust:
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,777
3
81
Originally posted by: Vickas
It is once a person has apparently died, when they are able to bend the laws of physics, because they are not officially recognized as "programs constrained by the matrix' rules."




wow. Never thought of it that way.
 

datalink7

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
16,765
6
81
Vickas,

I agree about Morpheus. I think he is very obviously John the Baptist. That is what it seems like to me anyway.
 

whateverdude

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
514
0
0
Smith probably completely copied himself to the traitor from Zion. This probably is the reason both Neo and Smith (in the real world) went into a coma from the EMP, which Smith apparently set off accidentally. They were both part program.

I dont agree with that. smith set that emp off on purpose. hes still trying to act on his original programming function, kill neo and destroy zion. neo can use his powers outside the matrix because I think once he left the architect, his brain was altered outside of the matrix, allowing him to use some, and the next movie will tell, all of his powers. we saw this when smith was able to "project" himself into banes brain outside of the matrix. neo did this to himself. remember, no "one" had ever selected the right door, so the machines, nor anyone else knows what would happen when the one goes back to the matrix instead of going back to the source.

after my 3rd viewing, my take is zion is real, "the one" is simply a random person in the matrix who causes an anomoly when they are first inserted. and the matrix created the merovingian, oracle, keymaker, architect and maybe other programs as a "workaround" to the anomoly they cant get rid of. all the previous 5 anomolies chose the left door and neo is the first one whose other choice is based on love. so hes the first to select the right door. the question is did the programs and/or the architect know that love would be his right door? the oracle told trinity that she would fall in love with the one, but did this mean that the oracle knew that the outcome would be that love would be neos choice? if she is on the side of the rebels, did she "orchestrate" neo and trinity falling in love because she knew that love would be his choice and he would in turn select the other door? remember, the architect said she was created to study human nature. maybe in turn, she came to understand and sypathize with humans and after 5 previous ones, figured out that if the other choice was love, the "one" would select the right door and in turn either save or completely destroy the human race. I think the oracle is working for the humans. I noticed this when she met with neo in the park and asked him what he did after he walked through the door made of light. she didnt seem to know what happened next and seemed to really want to know what his choice was.

also, did anyone else ever get the idea that all those catacombs and "sewers" they fly through and dock in to broadcast are really just previous zions that were destroyed? they are pretty damn big sewers with lots or pipes and huge open spaces. also, I noticed that towards the end of revolutions when they showed the sentinels that neo stopped, the part of the sewer they were in looked like the "living" area of zion with catwalks that went from a central column to outside walls.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,777
3
81
Originally posted by: whateverdude
Smith probably completely copied himself to the traitor from Zion. This probably is the reason both Neo and Smith (in the real world) went into a coma from the EMP, which Smith apparently set off accidentally. They were both part program.

I dont agree with that. smith set that emp off on purpose. hes still trying to act on his original programming function, kill neo and destroy zion. neo can use his powers outside the matrix because I think once he left the architect, his brain was altered outside of the matrix, allowing him to use some, and the next movie will tell, all of his powers. we saw this when smith was able to "project" himself into banes brain outside of the matrix. neo did this to himself. remember, no "one" had ever selected the right door, so the machines, nor anyone else knows what would happen when the one goes back to the matrix instead of going back to the source.

after my 3rd viewing, my take is zion is real, "the one" is simply a random person in the matrix who causes an anomoly when they are first inserted. and the matrix created the merovingian, oracle, keymaker, architect and maybe other programs as a "workaround" to the anomoly they cant get rid of. all the previous 5 anomolies chose the left door and neo is the first one whose other choice is based on love. so hes the first to select the right door. the question is did the programs and/or the architect know that love would be his right door? the oracle told trinity that she would fall in love with the one, but did this mean that the oracle knew that the outcome would be that love would be neos choice? if she is on the side of the rebels, did she "orchestrate" neo and trinity falling in love because she knew that love would be his choice and he would in turn select the other door? remember, the architect said she was created to study human nature. maybe in turn, she came to understand and sypathize with humans and after 5 previous ones, figured out that if the other choice was love, the "one" would select the right door and in turn either save or completely destroy the human race. I think the oracle is working for the humans. I noticed this when she met with neo in the park and asked him what he did after he walked through the door made of light. she didnt seem to know what happened next and seemed to really want to know what his choice was.

also, did anyone else ever get the idea that all those catacombs and "sewers" they fly through and dock in to broadcast are really just previous zions that were destroyed? they are pretty damn big sewers with lots or pipes and huge open spaces. also, I noticed that towards the end of revolutions when they showed the sentinels that neo stopped, the part of the sewer they were in looked like the "living" area of zion with catwalks that went from a central column to outside walls.

interesting
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,892
2,135
126
Things I learned from the new Matrix movie:

1) The new line of Cadillac's are nearly indestructible. The military should replace their Hummers with CTS's! That one in the movie took about 1000 rounds and the three people inside never got a scratch!

2) We're still using IP addresses 200 years in the future. They must really be short on subnets by then!

3) Razor technology has really progresses, as everyone seems to be nearly devoid of body hair. That, or Zion is sitting on top of a leaking reactor.

4) Same with deodorant technology. Everyone was all sweaty and dirty in the party scene, there couldn't be much ventilation in that cave, yet everyone was dirty dancing all over each other and didn't care. Whew!

Those are the main things I took away from it...there might be more when I go see it again.

 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
4
76
there is such a thing as plot...

fight scenes were cool, but I fell to sleep twice during the movie...way too much dialogue...plot and character devolopment would definitely help.

movies must contain more than action and a bunch of people talking about nothing. I thought X2 was significantly better and the T3 preview was better than Reloaded. After seeing the original, I am very disappointed.
 

Vickas

Member
Jul 18, 2001
150
0
0
I dont agree with that. smith set that emp off on purpose.

I didn't say he set it off by accident, I said apparently. Many things are apparent but are otherwise than they seem in these movies....

neo can use his powers outside the matrix because I think once he left the architect, his brain was altered outside of the matrix, allowing him to use some

I do believe his brain was altered when he was given the code to make him the one. But that does not change the fact that, in the real world, the Laws of Physics still rule. No matter what you've got in you're brain, you need something in the real world to communicate your desires to in order for any action to be taken. In the matrix, that programming/function is readily evident.

and the next movie will tell, all of his powers. we saw this when smith was able to "project" himself into banes brain outside of the matrix. neo did this to himself.

I don't think neo had to do this. When the Architect added the extra programming into Neo, it would have had to be saved into his internal memory. In otherwords, they hacked into his brain, and it's no different inside the matrix then out.

remember, no "one" had ever selected the right door, so the machines, nor anyone else knows what would happen when the one goes back to the matrix instead of going back to the source.

That's my point exactly. Maybe because of that choice, the machines will fail this time.

after my 3rd viewing, my take is zion is real, "the one" is simply a random person in the matrix who causes an anomoly when they are first inserted. and the matrix created the merovingian, oracle, keymaker, architect and maybe other programs as a "workaround" to the anomoly they cant get rid of. all the previous 5 anomolies chose the left door and neo is the first one whose other choice is based on love. so hes the first to select the right door. the question is did the programs and/or the architect know that love would be his right door? the oracle told trinity that she would fall in love with the one, but did this mean that the oracle knew that the outcome would be that love would be neos choice? if she is on the side of the rebels, did she "orchestrate" neo and trinity falling in love because she knew that love would be his choice and he would in turn select the other door? remember, the architect said she was created to study human nature. maybe in turn, she came to understand and sypathize with humans and after 5 previous ones, figured out that if the other choice was love, the "one" would select the right door and in turn either save or completely destroy the human race. I think the oracle is working for the humans. I noticed this when she met with neo in the park and asked him what he did after he walked through the door made of light. she didnt seem to know what happened next and seemed to really want to know what his choice was.

also, did anyone else ever get the idea that all those catacombs and "sewers" they fly through and dock in to broadcast are really just previous zions that were destroyed? they are pretty damn big sewers with lots or pipes and huge open spaces. also, I noticed that towards the end of revolutions when they showed the sentinels that neo stopped, the part of the sewer they were in looked like the "living" area of zion with catwalks that went from a central column to outside walls.


All very valid questions and observations, which only Revolutions will tell us of.

I like the idea that those sewers were previous Zions. It gives continuity to emerging facts.

The oracle seems able to see and tell all, and the fact that she was very anxious about what he chose seems to give lie to possibilities, like sparking a love between Neo and Trinity, which, in the end, caused Neo to choose the door previously not chosen, and mess things up a whole lot for the machines (not to mention the humans )

Can't wait till November!!
 

Vickas

Member
Jul 18, 2001
150
0
0
****New addition to my theory****

Where I previously mentioned the possibility of a different choice by the One changing the fate of Zion and the real world.

Maybe the machines will stop drilling because they realize the One did not make the choice they hoped, as the others before him did, and so they would have to find another person (ie Bane/Smith) to restart Zion after it is destroyed.

Now it is true that this would normally only delay the fate of Zion. Then again, Smith did say he was "free" from the Matrix (now more so in human form as Bane). Maybe he would not choose to help the other machines. It does not appear that he sides with them anymore. He appears to be his own force now.

Whether Smith decides to go with his base programming and help the machines destroy and restart Zion, or make a new choice and go with the humans, only Revolutions can tell.

Of course, this is all just a theory, Smith may not even enter into that part of the equation. It is rather obvious that he is still a major character, and not just a proxy for extremely cool-though somewhat less than Cinematic quality rendering-fight scenes.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
If Smith were to end up in Zion, he would probably be able to do all sorts of damage to the life support machines within. I think it's alluded to that although the Zion population uses the machines, not many are around that could rebuild them or even possibly make minor repairs if needed.

 

MaxDSP

Lifer
May 15, 2001
10,056
0
71
W....O....W......finally saw this movie today and it just blew my mind. That chase scene had my heart pumping and the soundtracks they played during the major battles added to the excitement by a huge factor.

The hints and revelations that came out during the movie had me begging for Revolutions to start playing right after Reloaded

Im definetely gonna have to see this again in theaters
 

MaxDSP

Lifer
May 15, 2001
10,056
0
71
Originally posted by: Vickas
****New addition to my theory****

Where I previously mentioned the possibility of a different choice by the One changing the fate of Zion and the real world.

Maybe the machines will stop drilling because they realize the One did not make the choice they hoped, as the others before him did, and so they would have to find another person (ie Bane/Smith) to restart Zion after it is destroyed.

Now it is true that this would normally only delay the fate of Zion. Then again, Smith did say he was "free" from the Matrix (now more so in human form as Bane). Maybe he would not choose to help the other machines. It does not appear that he sides with them anymore. He appears to be his own force now.

Whether Smith decides to go with his base programming and help the machines destroy and restart Zion, or make a new choice and go with the humans, only Revolutions can tell.

Of course, this is all just a theory, Smith may not even enter into that part of the equation. It is rather obvious that he is still a major character, and not just a proxy for extremely cool-though somewhat less than Cinematic quality rendering-fight scenes.


going off the "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" thoery, eh?

What I would love to see is a face off between a bunch of Agents vs. a bunch of Smiths vs. Neo. A three way fight for the future of the matrix and humans
 

Rellik

Senior member
Apr 24, 2000
759
0
0
ok guys, after reading this short thread;-) i got to say that the Wacholski´s certainly achieved one thing: They made a movie that reloaded the "i want more" feeling in a lot of ppl. I for one liked the original, but was soon put off by the zealous fanboys associated with it declaring it a groundbreaking philosphical movie. Please, it was very good, but took
from every previous philosophy/theory/book it could assimilate. Gibson, Sartre, you name it. It was, however, a success
in bringing those things to the mainstream. The new Matrix Reloaded however, has me wanting all info on the Matrix world and is thus, a pleasent surprise.

The Animatrix in particular displays a truly genius way of enhancing an established universe.

 

MustangSVT

Lifer
Oct 7, 2000
11,554
12
81
for u matrix haxors here is some information you might want to.. mmm memorize??

the transcript of conversation between Neo and the Architect. (sorry i didnt check if someone already posted this.. if so, just ignore )

Architect: hello Neo.

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix I've been waiting for you.
You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden asciduously avoided it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably....here

Neo: You haven't answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting...that was quicker than the others.

(TV Neos: Others [how many others?] what others? answer my question!)

Architect: The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 6th version.

(Tv Neos: 5 ones before me? 4...3..2.. what are you talking about? There are only 2 possible explanations, either no one told me....)

Neo: ...or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic--creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

(Tv Neos: You can't contol me! I'm gonna smash the wall I'll fuckin kill you! etc..)

Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.

Cut to Trinity vs Agent.

Architect: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art...flawless, sublime. And triumphed equally only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus. I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another--An intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its Mother.

Neo: The Oracle.

Architect: Please (sarcastic). As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice...even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo: This is about Zion.

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed--its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: Bullshit

(TV Neos: Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!)

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured...this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

Cut to Trinity vs Agent

Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you cary, reinserting the prime program. After which, you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals--16 females, 7 male--to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen. You can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility of the death of every human being on this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication--a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific--vis a vis..love.

Neo: Trinity.

Architect: Appropos, she entered the matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own.

Neo: No...

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the Source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her and to the end of your Species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already, I can see the chain-reaction--the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason--an emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth...she is going to die, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

Architect: We won't.

Neo exits out of the left door.

 
Aug 16, 2001
22,529
4
81
I might get flamed for starting another YAMT, so here it goes. Hope people are still reading this (way to long) thread.


Basically, I didn't like the movie.
They went overboard on the effects / fightscenes. WTF was that sex-act in the cave good for?
They should have cut down the fightscenes and kept the 'cool' ambience from the first movie, kind of a slower pace with less explosions.
Hope you get what I mean.

The effects were well done, no doubt.
The scene where Neo revives Trinity was lame.

All in all I'd give it a 2/5.
 

Vickas

Member
Jul 18, 2001
150
0
0
Originally posted by: MustangSVT
for u matrix haxors here is some information you might want to.. mmm memorize??

the transcript of conversation between Neo and the Architect. (sorry i didnt check if someone already posted this.. if so, just ignore )

Architect: hello Neo.

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix I've been waiting for you.
You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not...

My case in point, they reprogrammed some of his brain, to be identified by the system as "The One," yet he is still human.
 

SpiderX

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2002
1,192
0
76
A few things:

Here's something that could be the ultimate spoiler..I read that the Matrix Online videogame is being written by the W. Bros and it is a continuation of the Trilogy...so..that means that the Matrix is not destroyed in Revolutions, because the game takes place in the Matrix. Bummer

The Oracle says " We're all here to do what we're all here to do"

It got me to thinking, when they were going to the source they turned off the power, but the backup power came on too quick. If they had gone into the door, they would have been killed. But Smith showed up and it delayed them in time for Trinity to shut it down. So aside from being a Virus, it seems Smith plays a pretty important role in the whole scheme of things.

But then again I may be on crack.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Another thing I was thinking of...say all of Zion is preparing for the machines coming from above...is anyone guarding their own life support machines? All it would take is throwing a wrench in those machines and they are all toast.

I am not sure if there are any people in Zion that actually understand the machines or not...are they maintained or self-sufficient?
 
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