**Official** Matrix Revolutions Thread **w/ SPOILERS**

[foxkm]

Has anyone ever realized that this world (the matrix) could be the same world as the Terminator?
The matrix peroid would just be 100's of years after the Terminator existence.

 

[Creedyou]

i just realized that Neo's name is a rearrangement of letters of "one".

 

[wicktron]

Originally posted by: Creedyou
i just realized that Neo's name is a rearrangement of letters of "one".

Hello, and welcome to 5 years ago.

 

[BladeWalker]

Originally posted by: Creedyou
i just realized that Neo's name is a rearrangement of letters of "one".

Have you been living in a cave? Most of us knew that from the first movie.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Aftermath

Notice how Zion had like 23 people survive in Revolutions? Bottom Line: The machines are keeping the humans in check by going through all this crap every 100 years or so

Man, you really must've missed that scene. I specificly watched to see if it would be a few survivors to restart Zion as proposed by the architecht, and it wasn't like that. There were crowds of probably thousands of people still alive. That's how the cycle is different now. Zion survived, maybe a bit banged up, but it's still there and the human race is still abundant, not nearly wiped out. Now humans can freely leave the matrix, but I think it's a horrible solution. To paraphrase cypher from the first movie, why sit in a cave and eat some damn goop day after day when you can live in blissful ignorance in the matrix? Sounds like a great solution, let people freely leave a real, populated, sunlit world with love, clothes, cable, and ATOT, to go live in a cave somewhere.

Yeah, there were hundreds, maybe even thousands of survivors...

Well, many would argue you're still not "free" in the Matrix, and would rather live in a cave and truly be "free" than be controlled and under a spell of freedom. Also, let's face it, how long do you think the avg lifespan for a human battery is? Hence your pleasure in the Matrix would be much shorter than say, someone who had sex every day in a cave and lived to be 100. No way in hell the Matrix is keeping someone 80 years old and up for energy...

This now sets the stage for humans multiplying themselves and growing, possibly even powerful enough to someday kill the Matrix/Architect/Oracle and the machines. After all, if the humans stumbled upon nukes or something, say bye bye to Machine City and the Matrix.

If you think about it, why would the machines even need the Matrix if they had found an alternative source of power? Then the Architect/Oracle would have no say in the machines' actions, analogous to us finding an alternative to oil and telling OPEC to shove it. Then the machines could wipe out Zion without thinking twice.

 

[BladeWalker]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Regarding the movie, many have hinted that there will be a fourth and that NEO will come back b/c the Oracle said so. I think only a couple people mentioned it, but I'll reiterate: Neo as Keanu Reeves will NEVER be back. Ever. The Oracle meant that yes, he (THE ONE) will be back as an anomaly again, but not specifically NEO. This is an eternal cycle that NEVER ends because of the mathematical flaw in the matrix. If you can't realize this, then you shouldn't open your mouth about the movie or the ending.

That's exactly my interpretation. Did it make the movie any better. NO. Get off your high horse. There are a lot of people who understood it just fine and hated it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

BTW, Ebert gave "Once Upon A Time In Mexico" two thumbs up. He pretty much lost credibility from thereon.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: Omegachi
oh my god, i think this movie sucked really bad. It didn't explain everything and the ending is just retarded. i was expecting something more, way more than a simple "peace, love" ending like this. Did you guys read the post we had here awhile ago, the one that links to someone that kinda summarized the whole trilogy? His version of neo being a program and morpheus and trinity are also programs is so much of a story for Revolutions. I dunno, this movie is not what i expect it to be.

I remember that. It was a post on a forum. I was hoping that the humans would be the machines and the machines would be the humans.

 

[wviperw]

Blehgg.

One of the strengths of the Matrix trilogy is that it has 3 levels of viewership IMO:

1) Action-craving Joe
2) Slightly-above-average Joe - likes the surface ideas that the movie brings up
3) Deeper Joe - Sees the surface ideas, but also digs deeper and sees the hidden ideas (amphiboles)

I'd say most of us fall in category 2. Thats probably why so many people are so adament in their dislike for the movie--they're only seeing the surface and its a real let down.

As far as those who are commenting that the movie sucked b/c of the action/effects, WHAT are you SMOKING? Seriously. Take a few steps back. Compare any of the Matrix movies to any other movie that is out there. How could you say Matrix Revolutions' action/effects sucked? That shouldn't even be a point of discussion.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: BladeWalker

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Regarding the movie, many have hinted that there will be a fourth and that NEO will come back b/c the Oracle said so. I think only a couple people mentioned it, but I'll reiterate: Neo as Keanu Reeves will NEVER be back. Ever. The Oracle meant that yes, he (THE ONE) will be back as an anomaly again, but not specifically NEO. This is an eternal cycle that NEVER ends because of the mathematical flaw in the matrix. If you can't realize this, then you shouldn't open your mouth about the movie or the ending.

That's exactly my interpretation. Did it make the movie any better. NO. Get off your high horse. There are a lot of people who understood it just fine and hated it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

BTW, Ebert gave "Once Upon A Time In Mexico" two thumbs up. He pretty much lost credibility from thereon.

Congratulations, you understood the ending and are now in the elite "I hated the Matrix ending and understood it" fan club. Want a cookie?

I never said you couldn't state your opinion, lol. Why bother even posting if you don't fit in the category I'm slamming? :disgust:

FYI, E&R are the only nationally televised critic, and have been regarded as THE opinion on movies. If in fact they did give "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" 2 thumbs up then it proves nothing. Just because you and whomever didn't like it, doesn't mean that you were intelligent enough to look for the things that make a good movie. Bottom line is, you don't get paid to critique movies, they do, hence E&R's opinion holds more weight than any Joe Schmoe's.

 

[bigdog1218]

So are those twins from Reloaded in this movie because they were sweet and def. needed more scenes.

And for all you hardcore fans, if someone doesn't like a movie its ok, you can still make pretend your neo and download pictures of monica bellucci

 

[Redviffer]

Originally posted by: ClownBear

..........BTW, the theories bandied about in the chat boards were MUCH BETTER than what the Wachaowski bros. patched together...........It definitely shows that there are some potentially GREAT WRITERS and IDEA men on the boards. LETS SEE YOU GUYS WRITE MOVIES! You have the right stuff.

Agreed! Damn, the Wachowski bro's could have made this one the greatest by taking some of those ideas. Then again, some a$$head would probably sue them for using their idea and not cutting them on some $$$.

They can still make a 4th:

All the previous anomolies choose the Architech way: to return to the source and start over. This time Neo choose the opposite, this means that, for the first time in generation (since the matrix truly came to be), humanity will actually have a strong foothold in the physical world. The 4th movie could develop this further. Throw Neo back into it as a "program" (maybe part of him was copied into the Oracle or the Architect). Could make a great ending to the previous two movies.

I agree, as it stand right now, the Matrix is right where it was at the beginning, the machines are still using humans for batteries, and the Oracle & Architect really were just following their "program".

I liked it still, but not quite as much as the first one.


edit: spelling

 

[wviperw]

Onto my random comments:


- Milking the Matrix (2,3) - I'm sorry, but anybody who thinks that 2 and 3 were created to milk the Matrix are just plain WRONG. The Wachowski Brothers said from the beginning that the Matrix was meant to be a trilogy. The way it all started was that the Wachowski Brothers approached Silver with their idea for a trilogy and the agreement was that they would make all 3 from the get-go, NOT for just the original.

- Matrix 4 ("we'll see him again") - Not gonna happen. Its already been stated by the producers that there wouldn't be one. And the Oracle was referring to either a) Neo's "spirit" or b) a new "The One." You've got to look at the context. Finally, if they were going to make another one, they wouldn't blatantly say it like that.

- Wachowski Brothers - How come everybody all of a sudden thinks the 2nd/3rd movies are completely mindless action flicks? Do you really think that the Wachowski Brothers all of a sudden ran out of interesting ideas? The fact that they have planned this story from the start tells me there are things we are missing and ideas that still need to be tied together.

- Sunshine ending - First of all, there was a pretty big hint to it when Neo and Trin take the Logos up above the clouds and see the sun. Secondly, the scene is obviously deeper than "oh, lets end it by putting a cute little girl and a sunshine in there, and maybe even some daisys." I'm still trying to connect all the pieces myself, but I'm thinking the Wachowski Brothers were wanting to create an inordinant amount of irony into the ending. I mean, think about it. You've got 3 programs in the Matrix looking at a digitally created sunset discussing how peachy things are gonna be. Think about it--its not a Hollywood ending, and its not your dark dreary end-of-the-world-everybody's-dead ending either. Its an apparent Hollywood ending in which the reality is much grimmer. The irony is what makes the scene IMO.

- Machines/Humans War/Peace - I think one of the things that the Wachowski Brothers might be trying to question is what we define human. Maybe there is peace at the end because they are trying to tell us that we are no different than machines..? Or maybe we are different, in the area of choice, but despite the difference, we should still accept the machines. I think of the whole train area scene with the family.

- Neo == Jesus (religion in the matrix) - I don't get why people have issues with this. Throughout the movies this has been a key point of symbolism. What's wrong w/ introducting Christianity into the symbolism? People don't seem to have a problem with any of the other religions which are strewn throughout (Hindu, Buhdism (sp?), eastern thought, Greek Mythology, etc.)

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: BladeWalker
I'm sorry to say I am deeply disappointed how the Wachowskis brothers ended the trilogy. It's truly sad about the directions they took from such a great movie (original Matrix). I wonder if the sequels were even planned when the first movie was created since they were not needed.

I reserved my opinion about Reloaded because I wanted to see how Revolutions would tie it all up. Needless to say it didn't do a good job. I don't know why the brothers feel pressured to make the two sequels overly reliant on over-the-top CGI f/x and action sequences. The scripts, the plot, the pacing, and the connection of the three movies really suffered. If all three movies were suppose to tell one story, the W brothers need to work on believable transition.

What I didn't like about Reloaded. Too many new characters were introduced: Link, the Kid, Meravingian (and his crew), Persephone, Keymaker, Seraph, and the Architect. The only one that is truly required for the central plot is the Architect and I prefer Tank over Link as the operator. If the first movie is about finding "the One" who can free the humans from the Matrix, the second should be about finding "the Architect" who created the Matrix. I must admit the action sequences were great but felt most of them were unnecessary because they involve the "tangent" characters as previously mentioned. Most of the action scenes felt like fillers (or side quests) that don't really drive the main plot. The CGI f/x could use polishing but did not detract the movie, however. That being said, there were some amazing CGI actions in Reloaded.

What I didn't like about Revolutions. Morpheus is no longer a central character. His leadership persona seems to be non-existent. WTF. Neo is stuck in a limbo world between the Matrix and the real world. The matrix within a matrix would have been more plausible. The introduction of two new "tangent" characters: the Trainman and the little Indian girl. Neo has power in the Matrix and the real world, but is limited in the limbo world (train station). The whole train station idea and the Trainman seems pointless. So that makes the meeting with the Meravingian and Persephone pointless also (irregardless of how hot Monica Belucci is). I have no clue about the significance of the little girl. Seraph supposedly nearly as powerful as Neo in Reloaded seems much less so in Revolutions. Seraph mentioned that he has defeated agent Smith before but we are not given any back story about it. This time around he doesn't give much of a fight to Smith.

The Wachowskis also fell victim to using cliches. <sarcasm> Gee, I wonder if the mech commander will be fatally wounded (defending Zion) and speak to the Kid in his final moment as to motivate the Kid to take control of the mech and be a hero. Gee, I wonder if Zee's partner (an unknown character) will die.</sarcasm> Trinity is also fatally wounded (during trip to the Machine city) and in her final breath motivates Neo to continue on. This emotional scene has got to be the worse acted part by both Moss and Reeves in the entire serie. People next to me were laughing or giving *sigh*. The only thing worse than Trinity's death scene is the ending. The ending of any movie can make or break the movie. I'm sorry to say the ending of Revolutions really bites. OMFG, a peaceful sunrise behind the city skyscrapers (back in the Matrix) with the Oracle and little girl looking on.

There are some things that I do like about Revolutions: the battle at Zion and Neo vs Smith scenes were amazing. I have no complaints about the CGI in Revolutions with possible exception of the Sentinels (which I felt to be unrealistic from the beginning of the serie).

BTW, the Architect mentioned in Reloaded (also maybe Smith in the first movie) that there have been many iterations of the Matrix. The early Matrix was paradise but the human minds rejected it. He even mentioned "entire crops were lost" which suggests that humans die if the mind rejects the Matrix's version of reality. In order to create a more realistic world, the later Matrix pattern after late 20th century earth. In Revolutions, Smith takes complete control of the Matrix. How can this world of Smiths be accepted by those hooked to the Matrix? The entire human population hooked to the Matrix should be dead.

The human minds did reject it, that's why Neo was like Smith has taken control of the Matrix, and soon he will take control of your world. I think anyone that was hooked in was dead. At the end, the matrix had to be rebooted again. Notice how the indian girl was dead on the sidewalk then came back alive even though she wasn't human. I guess the exact same thing that happened when the matrix was rebooted before happened again.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: BladeWalker
I'm sorry to say I am deeply disappointed how the Wachowskis brothers ended the trilogy. It's truly sad about the directions they took from such a great movie (original Matrix). I wonder if the sequels were even planned when the first movie was created since they were not needed.

I reserved my opinion about Reloaded because I wanted to see how Revolutions would tie it all up. Needless to say it didn't do a good job. I don't know why the brothers feel pressured to make the two sequels overly reliant on over-the-top CGI f/x and action sequences. The scripts, the plot, the pacing, and the connection of the three movies really suffered. If all three movies were suppose to tell one story, the W brothers need to work on believable transition.

What I didn't like about Reloaded. Too many new characters were introduced: Link, the Kid, Meravingian (and his crew), Persephone, Keymaker, Seraph, and the Architect. The only one that is truly required for the central plot is the Architect and I prefer Tank over Link as the operator. If the first movie is about finding "the One" who can free the humans from the Matrix, the second should be about finding "the Architect" who created the Matrix. I must admit the action sequences were great but felt most of them were unnecessary because they involve the "tangent" characters as previously mentioned. Most of the action scenes felt like fillers (or side quests) that don't really drive the main plot. The CGI f/x could use polishing but did not detract the movie, however. That being said, there were some amazing CGI actions in Reloaded.

What I didn't like about Revolutions. Morpheus is no longer a central character. His leadership persona seems to be non-existent. WTF. Neo is stuck in a limbo world between the Matrix and the real world. The matrix within a matrix would have been more plausible. The introduction of two new "tangent" characters: the Trainman and the little Indian girl. Neo has power in the Matrix and the real world, but is limited in the limbo world (train station). The whole train station idea and the Trainman seems pointless. So that makes the meeting with the Meravingian and Persephone pointless also (irregardless of how hot Monica Belucci is). I have no clue about the significance of the little girl. Seraph supposedly nearly as powerful as Neo in Reloaded seems much less so in Revolutions. Seraph mentioned that he has defeated agent Smith before but we are not given any back story about it. This time around he doesn't give much of a fight to Smith.

The Wachowskis also fell victim to using cliches. <sarcasm> Gee, I wonder if the mech commander will be fatally wounded (defending Zion) and speak to the Kid in his final moment as to motivate the Kid to take control of the mech and be a hero. Gee, I wonder if Zee's partner (an unknown character) will die.</sarcasm> Trinity is also fatally wounded (during trip to the Machine city) and in her final breath motivates Neo to continue on. This emotional scene has got to be the worse acted part by both Moss and Reeves in the entire serie. People next to me were laughing or giving *sigh*. The only thing worse than Trinity's death scene is the ending. The ending of any movie can make or break the movie. I'm sorry to say the ending of Revolutions really bites. OMFG, a peaceful sunrise behind the city skyscrapers (back in the Matrix) with the Oracle and little girl looking on.

There are some things that I do like about Revolutions: the battle at Zion and Neo vs Smith scenes were amazing. I have no complaints about the CGI in Revolutions with possible exception of the Sentinels (which I felt to be unrealistic from the beginning of the serie).

BTW, the Architect mentioned in Reloaded (also maybe Smith in the first movie) that there have been many iterations of the Matrix. The early Matrix was paradise but the human minds rejected it. He even mentioned "entire crops were lost" which suggests that humans die if the mind rejects the Matrix's version of reality. In order to create a more realistic world, the later Matrix pattern after late 20th century earth. In Revolutions, Smith takes complete control of the Matrix. How can this world of Smiths be accepted by those hooked to the Matrix? The entire human population hooked to the Matrix should be dead.

The human minds did reject it, that's why Neo was like Smith has taken control of the Matrix, and soon he will take control of your world. I think anyone that was hooked in was dead. At the end, the matrix had to be rebooted again. Notice how the indian girl was dead on the sidewalk then came back alive even though she wasn't human. I guess the exact same thing that happened when the matrix was rebooted before happened again.

Exactly. Nowhere did it ever say, all the humans survived after Smith took over the Matrix. All the humans probably DID die that were hooked into the Matrix, because Smith has now shattered their reality, or just taken them over mentally by wresting control away from the Matrix to himself.

Bladewalker, the train station was really "pointless".

You say Morpheus isn't a central character anymore, what more did you want him to do? Be sent to Machine City when Neo's the only one who could stop Smith? Morph was already in the club scene, the train scene, the scene's of flying the Hammer with Niobe... did you expect him to blindly run out during the Zion battle scenes, mentally destroy Sentinels like Neo, and proclaim: "Maybe I'm the one???!" Seriously.

It seems like you really haven't thought about the ending at all. Did you really take the sunset at face value and think it was a "Hollywood" ending, la da di everyone's happy, let's go home? Or did you actually listen to the conversation, understand the irony of the sunset, understand the significance of the girl and her role in the Matrix, and comprehend that humans have won freedom of choice b/c of Neo's actions?

 

[BoomAM]

Right then.
I can`t be arsed reading through all these posts, so if some of what im about to say has already been said then....tough sh1t. lol.
Anyway.
The movie as a whole was good. It was above average, not as good as Reloaded imo, but still good.
It seemed to be to be mostly a "story film", where as reloaded was more of a "action film". Which is no bad thing.
I noticed several problems with the films, and am a little confused with some things in it.
For example. When Trinity dies, we see Neo crying. Yet, he has no eyes. How the fcuk can you cry with no tear ducts!
At the end the architect says that all the humans will be released. If that happens then the war is over. Completly, as the machines rely on the humans for power do they not? The ending seemed left open to me. Unfinished. I was expecting more from the ending to be honest.
The machines also tell Neo that they dont need his help, yet when he gets taken over by Smith (and why did he let that happen?), the machines pumped electricity or something into Neo to make all the smiths explode? Why? And why exactely did the machines load Neo onto some sort of ship at the end? Were they going to dump his body somewhere? Bring him back to the Humans?
The CGI stuff. Was impressive imo.
And to the person who said that it was like watching a video game; Do you wanna go and tell WarnersBro pictures how to make thousends of sentinal models and hundreds of APCs move like that just using models and wire string? Some of those battles are impossible to do on the scale that they were without the aid of CGI.

 

[Fahtrim]

Originally posted by: Medicated858
When I read posts bashing this movie and the poll where people said that the movie sucked, I am confirmed in my belief that the world is filled with idiots.

I admit, I fell for the crap and was suckered into believe they would tell us a good story. Whatever.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Fahtrim

Originally posted by: Medicated858
When I read posts bashing this movie and the poll where people said that the movie sucked, I am confirmed in my belief that the world is filled with idiots.

I admit, I fell for the crap and was suckered into believe they would tell us a good story. Whatever.

I fell for the crap too. Those movie bashers never have a good story to tell about why they didn't like a movie.

 

[Fahtrim]

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Originally posted by: Regs

People critic this movie for what it could of been . But take it for what it is, the movie sucks.

Thanks for your opinion, but it's wrong.

No the opinion is correct. The movie was supposed to be about storyline..........

 

[Fahtrim]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Fahtrim

Originally posted by: Medicated858
When I read posts bashing this movie and the poll where people said that the movie sucked, I am confirmed in my belief that the world is filled with idiots.

I admit, I fell for the crap and was suckered into believe they would tell us a good story. Whatever.

I fell for the crap too. Those movie bashers never have a good story to tell about why they didn't like a movie.

Well the plot/story was horrible. The questions weren't answered. The 'rules' of the Matrix don't apply past the first movie. Science Fantasy is not how the movie described itself.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Fahtrim

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Fahtrim

Originally posted by: Medicated858
When I read posts bashing this movie and the poll where people said that the movie sucked, I am confirmed in my belief that the world is filled with idiots.

I admit, I fell for the crap and was suckered into believe they would tell us a good story. Whatever.

I fell for the crap too. Those movie bashers never have a good story to tell about why they didn't like a movie.

Well the plot/story was horrible. The questions weren't answered. The 'rules' of the Matrix don't apply past the first movie. Science Fantasy is not how the movie described itself.

Classic. I'm betting you didn't read this whole thread...

 

[starwarsdad]

Originally posted by: Ziptar

Originally posted by: DannyBoy

Ill keep your post in mind when i see it...

p.s. You had me on the floor in stitches reading your post.... :beer:

Post your thoughts here or send me a PM... I like to know if you come away feeling as pissed, cheated, and screwed as I did..

I want my money back for the theater viewing of Reloaded and Revolutions as well as for the Reloaded DVD!

I cannot believe that they hacked a great movie up like this. I was so pissed at the end that I wanted to punch someone. Had I known that they would take the cop-out make money way out of it, there is no way in all Hell I would have watched the second or third installments of dung.

I left the theater excited after Reloaded, because I was pumped about the possibilties for the final film. It neve occured to me that it would suck and ruin them both.

 

[geckojohn]

"Mr. Anderson"...

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: starwarsdad

Originally posted by: Ziptar

Originally posted by: DannyBoy

Ill keep your post in mind when i see it...

p.s. You had me on the floor in stitches reading your post.... :beer:

Post your thoughts here or send me a PM... I like to know if you come away feeling as pissed, cheated, and screwed as I did..

I want my money back for the theater viewing of Reloaded and Revolutions as well as for the Reloaded DVD!

I cannot believe that they hacked a great movie up like this. I was so pissed at the end that I wanted to punch someone. Had I known that they would take the cop-out make money way out of it, there is no way in all Hell I would have watched the second or third installments of dung.

I left the theater excited after Reloaded, because I was pumped about the possibilties for the final film. It neve occured to me that it would suck and ruin them both.

What didn't you like about the ending specifically? That humans aren't controlled by the Matrix anymore? The sunrise? Curious.

 

[Wag]

The prefix "Neo" means "new" for the guy who just figured out the letters arranged into "one". Lol.

Yeah, the ending isn't clear-cut, and I'd generally be OK with that, but it gave no answers whatsoever. Nothing. There was no payoff. Everyone is dead, except for Zion. Everything is status-quo: Humanity is stuck in The Matrix, the machines still feeding off of them. So, what was the point?

 

[JackDawkins]

Well, despite gaping plot holes, this movie made more sense than Reloaded did. As for the ending, I think most people may have missed the most important line in the whole movie. That was when the Architect first walks up to the Oracle and says, "You played a dangerous game."

Obviously he was referring to the end and its resultant peace accord, and the Oracle's involvement, her game she played, in getting there. I think the dialogue was meant to point out that the Oracle, very appropriately named for the character, foresaw that the only way that to solve the situation, including the constant need to reset the Matrix, is that the Machines and Man must come to a peaceful agreement and co-exist. The Machines letting out of the matrix those that elected to do so.

What makes no sense at all in the movie, aside from the gaping plot holes, is all the crap introduced in Reloaded including the Merovigian, the Keymaker, the exiled programs, the Trainman, and all that nonsense completely un-necessary in telling the story. They could have thrown out most of the crap and just made a two movie trilogy; either that or put the crap they introduced to better use.

All in all, the first one was good, although I think people read way more into it than should have; the second one was a convoluted mish-mash; and the third wasn't too bad if you could set aside the plot problems and ignore the useless characters.