OFFICIAL NFL 2012 week 7 thread

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Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,411
10
0
49ers still didn't look too great offensively outside of Running game.

I'm a big 49ers fan but I'm concerned after Giants game....

Anyways, any of you guys noticed how Gore is breaking SO many tackles running between guys left and right all season long.....yesterday he god wide open and had one on one to get a touchdown....and gets tackled?

How the hell does that happen?

And of course 49ers HAD to give the ball away at the end of that drive as well....
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
49ers are fine.

Seahawks have a very good defense, very underrated. Plus its inner-division which teams always play harder for.

Giants just have the 49ers #. They don't match up well against them.
 

hclarkjr

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,375
0
0
Its not even going to be close when all is said and done. RG3 will be a blip on the radar of NFL history, to presume that Luck will be in Canton one day isn't even that big of a stretch statement.
baloney, saying luck will make the HOF is way to premature. who is leading the league is passing percentage this year? hint it is not luck :biggrin:
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Its not even going to be close when all is said and done. RG3 will be a blip on the radar of NFL history, to presume that Luck will be in Canton one day isn't even that big of a stretch statement.

I agree with Luck, but the assumptions of where RG3 will be 3 or 10 years form now are patently ludicrous.

So, he "plays like" Vick, or Newton, or Randall Cunningham, etc.

The important thing is that he is not Vick, or Newton, or Cunningham. Only season from season will we see if his style holds up, adjusts his game, or whatever it takes.

Brees was one of the worst QBs ever his first 2 seasons in the NFL. He was a joke...then he adjusted.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
How do u figure the skins win? Did you see what NYG did to sf?

I like Alex Smith, but he's more or less one-dimensional and rather easy for a defense to figure out, as the giants did. Plus, it doesn't hurt when you can take advantage of so many Turnovers.

The Giants won't have an easy of a time figuring out the Redskins offensive scheme. It would be an upset for sure, but it's entirely possible, and really shouldn't be that shocking, that the Skins pull this one off.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,056
565
126
Difference between Vick and RG3? Everyone was saying how off the charts RG3's football knowledge was, which compared to Luck's. Atleast pre-draft day. I never heard such talk about Vick.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
I agree with Luck, but the assumptions of where RG3 will be 3 or 10 years form now are patently ludicrous.

So, he "plays like" Vick, or Newton, or Randall Cunningham, etc.

The important thing is that he is not Vick, or Newton, or Cunningham. Only season from season will we see if his style holds up, adjusts his game, or whatever it takes.

Brees was one of the worst QBs ever his first 2 seasons in the NFL. He was a joke...then he adjusted.

Please. Brees was a fantastic QB and everyone saw his potential in San Diego. His skill set was always visible. San Diego traded him away because his surgery was the kind that very few players come back from.

Also, I agree that we can't say anything on RG3's career for sure, thats just my opinion of him.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Please. Brees was a fantastic QB and everyone saw his potential in San Diego. His skill set was always visible. San Diego traded him away because his surgery was the kind that very few players come back from.

Also, I agree that we can't say anything on RG3's career for sure, thats just my opinion of him.

Brees also had a sever "height disadvantage" working against him, as well. It obviously doesn't detract from his performance, but he's one of those guys that any scout, going with the type of knowledge limited by the inability to see the future, will classify as: tremendously skilled, but with significant doubts.

You can look at the height bias the same as the bias against scrambling QBs. Scouting assumes many things because of, well, history--which is fine. But there are always outliers. Brees sure overcame many of the potential shortcomings that could have limited him--turning him into a slot receiver type of player (I'm thinking Antwan Randall El), but he has other advantages--IQ.

RG3 also has this IQ, which gives him a tremendous upside over his perceived limitations. I certainly don't see him looking to run run run on every down, as Vick did for his first 2 or 3 seasons.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
I like Alex Smith, but he's more or less one-dimensional and rather easy for a defense to figure out, as the giants did. Plus, it doesn't hurt when you can take advantage of so many Turnovers.

The Giants won't have an easy of a time figuring out the Redskins offensive scheme. It would be an upset for sure, but it's entirely possible, and really shouldn't be that shocking, that the Skins pull this one off.

Yeah, Redskins beat the Giants twice last year. Patriots had two chances and didn't win either time.

I expect a tough game for the Giants.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
Brees also had a sever "height disadvantage" working against him, as well. It obviously doesn't detract from his performance, but he's one of those guys that any scout, going with the type of knowledge limited by the inability to see the future, will classify as: tremendously skilled, but with significant doubts.

You can look at the height bias the same as the bias against scrambling QBs. Scouting assumes many things because of, well, history--which is fine. But there are always outliers. Brees sure overcame many of the potential shortcomings that could have limited him--turning him into a slot receiver type of player (I'm thinking Antwan Randall El), but he has other advantages--IQ.

RG3 also has this IQ, which gives him a tremendous upside over his perceived limitations. I certainly don't see him looking to run run run on every down, as Vick did for his first 2 or 3 seasons.

Those same perceived limitations affect Russell Wilson. Whom I would have rather had if I was in the Redskins position, instead of RG3. Wilson has a lot of the same upside as RG3, but without giving up so much.

Don't get me wrong, I think RG3 is going to be good, not great, but good and even very good at times. As long as you use him correctly. However, he isn't so good as to give away your whole draft for 2 years as Washington did, just to move up to #2 to get him. He was overrated at #2 IMO and thats just my opinion.

If I was drafting and ended up with Wilson I would be just as happy with that. Not to mention all the goods that came before him. Tannehill seems like he could be elite. I think Washington gave up too much to get RG3.

EDIT: scratch that, 3 years. They gave up their 1st in 2012, 2013 and 2014. They could have stayed at #6 and just drafted Ryan Tannehill. Call me crazy but I could even see Tannehill having the better career.
/shrugs
 
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eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,206
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
i'm gonna post the same thing i posted in the fantasy football thread when challenged on rg3 when i said cam newton sucked.

not newton. he's SOOO goddamn overrated and i don't understand what everyone loved about him in the first place.
I've seen you say some smart things in this thread, however this is not one of those times.

Really? You don't understand? Maybe because he was the 4th best QB in the game last year as a rookie and rushed for 14 TDs and over 700 yards.
I agree with eits. Cam Newton was a sham exactly like Vince Young was in his first year in the league. Yea, he ran for 14 TD's and could do so again, oh, accept defenses learned how to contain his ass and not let him get to the edges, you play containment D on the front 4 and tempt him deep with 2-man zone deep coverage and he looks lost out there.

Its called "tape". Its what happens when the offseason comes around and everyone finally has time to analyze every tape on Cam Newton and figure out how to beat him.

I didn't say anything about how much he has regressed this year and defenses figuring him out making him borderline benchable. Just saying it's complete bullshit to say you couldn't understand why anyone was high on him coming off that rookie year. It's like saying you can't understand why anyone would love RG3.

i disagree. cam newton is more like a running back that can throw... rg3 is more like a quarterback that can run. there's a difference. that's why rg3 will get better over time. that's why vick and cam newton suck... they are more like running backs who can throw. they have distance and zip, but no accuracy or finesse. defenses figure that out and quickly. once you stop them from running so they can stay in the pocket in order to throw, they turn the ball over. vick's offensive line sucks ass right now... reid needs to let him loose and let him run and not throw, but i digress.

however, when you have a quarterback who has accuracy and intelligence and can read defenses who can run/scramble, like aaron rodgers or brett favre or even steve young, that's WAY more valuable and less of a risk down the road.

the only thing rg3 needs to learn right now is how to not get hurt and to accept when to end the fight for yardage so he can survive and be well enough to gain more yardage on the next down in a different way. he will keep defenses guessing. he's got accuracy, he's got a cannon, he's got humility and poise, he's got intelligence, and he's faster than any defensive player in the league.

with a strong offensive line, he is unstoppable. he only had 3 total turnovers (two interceptions and one lost fumble out of five total) with 11 touchdowns. he is the most accurate quarterback in the league.

would we be able to apply the same stats and attributes to cam newton? absolutely not. cam newton threw interceptions like rice at a wedding. he lacks poise, accuracy, and intelligence, but he can run. even with a strong offensive line, cam newton will still throw picks. if steve smith played for the redskins, he would probably be a top 5 receiver... however, he's playing with cam newton, so he's only been able to collect 398 total yards and no touchdowns. that's such a waste of steve smith's talent.

sorry to nest... just wanted to make sure people understood the context.
 
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AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
Most accurate QB in the league? OK, whatever. There isn't enough tape to argue but I guarantee that all of the elite QB's in the league today are more accurate than RG3, all of them. Manning, Brady, Brees, Aaron Rodgers. Just to name the obvious

I've amended my argument to give you context on my opinion. Its not just RG3, its where he was drafted and what it took to get him. Time will tell but I think this draft had enough QB talent to go around, and he didn't need to be taken #2. If Washington's GM wasn't a retard, St Louis would have had to keep the #2 and would have drafted someone else. RG3 wouldn't have been taken until at least #3 and then there wouldn't be as much on the line for any specific team. As it stands, Washington better hit with him or they are screwed.

The only stupider trade in recent memory was Carson Palmer for 2 #1's and a #2
 
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eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,206
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Most accurate QB in the league? OK, whatever. There isn't enough tape to argue but I guarantee that all of the elite QB's in the league today are more accurate than RG3, all of them. Manning, Brady, Brees, Aaron Rodgers. Just to name the obvious

I've amended my argument to give you context on my opinion. Its not just RG3, its where he was drafted and what it took to get him. Time will tell but I think this draft had enough QB talent to go around, and he didn't need to be taken #2. If Washington's GM was a retard, St Louis would have had to keep the #2 and would have drafted someone else. RG3 wouldn't have been taken until at least #3 and then there wouldn't be as much on the line for any specific team. As it stands, Washington better hit with him or they are screwed.

lemme correct myself: most accurate quarterback this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/completionPct

personally, i used to think the same thing. at first, i thought, "seriously? we gave up all of that for a stud rookie quarterback? great idea skins... that ALWAYS works out well for everyone who gets a top pick quarterback... 2012 will be a fail." however, the more i read about him and saw him play, i started coming around, but still wasn't sure. then, when i saw him play in pre-season, i started becoming more confident. after the first regular season game, i was sold.

the skins can pick up a better offensive line and defense over the 2013 draft, for sure. also, trades will happen. we got a great back-up qb and grossman... i'm sure san francisco would be interested in grossman... they have some pretty good defensive players...

overall, i think the skins did the right thing.
 

Imported

Lifer
Sep 2, 2000
14,679
23
81
Bit late, but taking my picks from Yahoo ATOT..

THU, OCT 18
Seattle at San Francisco 8:20 PM NFL
SUN, OCT 21
Tennessee at Buffalo 1:00 PM CBS
Washington at NY Giants 1:00 PM FOX
New Orleans at Tampa Bay 1:00 PM FOX
Dallas at Carolina 1:00 PM FOX
Baltimore at Houston 1:00 PM CBS
Cleveland at Indianapolis 1:00 PM CBS
Green Bay at St. Louis 1:00 PM FOX
Arizona at Minnesota 1:00 PM FOX
NY Jets at New England 4:25 PM CBS
Jacksonville at Oakland 4:25 PM CBS
Pittsburgh at Cincinnati 8:20 PM NBC
MON, OCT 22
Detroit at Chicago 8:30 PM
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
lemme correct myself: most accurate quarterback this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/completionPct

He also has the fewest attempted passes, by far when compared to others in the top 10. 160 where Rodgers, Manning and Ryan all have around 70 more but only drop off 2%. That is very telling. Christian Ponder at #2 should tell you all you need to know on that. Lets see where he's at when the season is over.

Rodgers, Manning and Matt Ryan all look much better with over 220 attempts versus 160 and still at 67.8 completion or 68% for Aaron. Especially when I can think of all the dropped passes by just Peyton's receivers in the first 3-4 games of the season.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
Is it me, or the Giants whine like a bunch of school girls? ” we've got lots of injuries” - Tom; ” my salsa dance is sacred” - Victor; ” Smith gets away with murder” - Gilbride; whiny face - Eli.

Quit yer whining.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archi...ons-physical-play-by-seattle-cornerbacks.html

The 49ers coach, who last week sent out a news release accusing the Giants of trying to manipulate the officials, today said he'd send a letter to the league offices in New York this week questioning the Seahawks' rough play against the 49ers' wideouts during Thursday night's game.

...

Harbaugh implied they were too physical.

...

Harbaugh agreed it was important to look into the matter since the 49ers will face the Seahawks again Dec. 23.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Yeah, Redskins beat the Giants twice last year. Patriots had two chances and didn't win either time.

I expect a tough game for the Giants.

Yet the Patriots beat the Redskins last year who wound up with a 5-11 record so who beat who on a given week means close to nothing, one might think the Giants sucked losing TWICE to a 5-11 team but you would be wrong, they won the SB but not exactly by blowout, Welker catches a routine pass and the Giants would have lost, I still tip my cap to them though because the couple of plays they made were the difference, Pat's had their chance and blew it..
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
Yet the Patriots beat the Redskins last year who wound up with a 5-11 record so who beat who on a given week means close to nothing, one might think the Giants sucked losing TWICE to a 5-11 team but you would be wrong, they won the SB but not exactly by blowout, Welker catches a routine pass and the Giants would have lost, I still tip my cap to them though because the couple of plays they made were the difference, Pat's had their chance and blew it..

Ease up Francis, I wasn't saying anything about which teams are better than which. The part about the Patriots was a joke.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126

The Seahawks DB's are just doing what every team does, if the Ref's not calling holding in the 5yd zone where a DB is allowed contact they will continue to do so until it get's called. Harbaugh would be better off handling his issues outside of the public eye IMO. As for the 'Hawks their continued boasting is classless as is some of their play, DT Jones got fined 15K for a helmet smash on Brady, then they called NE a "gimmick" offense while his D gave up 480yds in the win against the Pats, dropping them from the #1 rank defense down to 9th. Great win for the 'Hawks though, now show us if you can win away from your noise factory in Seattle at Chi, GB, Atl, then I'll be convinced your the real anything..
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Ease up Francis, I wasn't saying anything about which teams are better than which. The part about the Patriots was a joke.

OK, In reality the Giants/Pat's games are very hard fought close games and great to watch, I just wish we could win one LOL.. At this point in the season the Giants seem to be playing better each week, the 49'ers were supposed to be a stern test but got hammered..
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,461
82
86
LOL. Did you watch that game? Did you see how many penalties the seasquawks got away with? There was one blatant face mask on Smith that just went "unnoticed". The funniest one was the line ref not calling for a TD, when it was obvious TD, and he called it out at the one. I swear the replacement refs were back in that game.

It's OK, the Niners will meet your Giants again. Won't be the same next time, homer.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
LOL. Did you watch that game? Did you see how many penalties the seasquawks got away with? There was one blatant face mask on Smith that just went "unnoticed". The funniest one was the line ref not calling for a TD, when it was obvious TD, and he called it out at the one. I swear the replacement refs were back in that game.

It's OK, the Niners will meet your Giants again. Won't be the same next time, homer.

Yea, that's what pisses me off about the Seasquats, they get to a 4-2 record and their all the shit right?, calling the Pat's a "gimmick" offense, must be a great gimmick since you rolled over 480yds of "gimmick" LOL...
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,578
2,913
136
Yea, that's what pisses me off about the Seasquats, they get to a 4-2* record and their all the shit right?, calling the Pat's a "gimmick" offense, must be a great gimmick since you rolled over 480yds of "gimmick" LOL...
ftfy
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
To say that Luck is not much of a stretch from being in Canton is a huge stretch in itself. You need to do more than just one season and we're not even half way through. Sounds liek an immature statement or someone just 'wanting' it to be. He may very well end up there but he's got another 15yrs of football to go.

On the RG3 tip you guys are very short sighted here as well. He is a pocket passer. Just happens that he's fast when he runs. Flash in the pan? I don't think so and neither do the multitudes of NFL players who have played against him, watched film on him (Osi) or played with him. He brings more than just speed to the position. His leadership is outstanding. His willingness to work as hard or harder than anyone on the team. He's changed the attitude in Washington for the better and that's evidenced by being within one possession of winning or tying each game this year. I suspect we will see the Giants get chin checked this week and many will start to believe its not just Luck who is the 'Real Deal'. There will be deniers no matter what. But in my mind to say that Luck will make RG3 look like a blip on the radar screen of NFL history is a bit myopic and maybe wishful thinking.
 
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