Official Playstation 5 thread

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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,752
6,426
136
Its cute they think they are just competing with Xbone.
Their other competition right now is the old ass Switch that no one in his right mind is buying in 2024. Though Sony is going to be boned when Switch 2 releases next year and everyone buys that instead of this $810 pos.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,366
5,884
136
Their other competition right now is the old ass Switch that no one in his right mind is buying in 2024. Though Sony is going to be boned when Switch 2 releases next year and everyone buys that instead of this $810 pos.

Well... we don't know what the price of the Switch 2 is gonna be. Imagine the Gamer Rage if it's $399 for the base model which doesn't include the Dock.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,366
5,884
136

At least from this DF video, Rebirth on the Pro is basically on par with Graphics Mode except you get 60 fps. There's that I guess.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,752
6,426
136
Well... we don't know what the price of the Switch 2 is gonna be. Imagine the Gamer Rage if it's $399 for the base model which doesn't include the Dock.
Still better than paying $700 and still having to buy an $80 drive and a $30 stand for a system with no games. HZD remaster ROFL Sony is a dumpster fire.
 
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Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,575
1,728
136
WTF Playstation? A remaster of Horizon Zero Dawn? Are you kidding me? What a joke.

Heh, that is pure desperation on Sony's part. It is not like they haven't done it before with last of us 1, endless remasters. The big question is will they make Aloy's face fat like in the second game?
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,267
655
126
Not sure why people are complaining about remasters now. It's been like this this whole generation I feel like. While they are at it they should do a red dead 1 remaster as I never got a chance to finish it.

Actually one of Sony's CFO's was complaining that there aren't enough unique games out and the opportunities are being squandered. He's partially right about that, hoping it does change for the future.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,142
6,029
126
Not sure why people are complaining about remasters now. It's been like this this whole generation I feel like. While they are at it they should do a red dead 1 remaster as I never got a chance to finish it.

Actually one of Sony's CFO's was complaining that there aren't enough unique games out and the opportunities are being squandered. He's partially right about that, hoping it does change for the future.
I've been complaining about remasters since the inception of them.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,366
5,884
136
I think they realize the cupboard is a little bare because of the GAAS failures... and given it takes 4-5 years now to make a game...
 

MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
207
86
71
Well, the PS5 disc drives are now sold all at all retailers. Indication of initial demand or artificially created scarcity?

Anyway, I have my drive and probably will decide after Sony's next presentation. Though, they need to show me something, because the current list of Pro optimized games really aren't my thing. Except for Demon's Souls, perhaps, I've never played any of those games nor do I have any desire to play them; even if you offered them to me for free, I wouldn't bother.

Unless I see something about Wolverine or Bloodborne, I'll pass on this PS5 gen altogether.
 

MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
207
86
71

From $80 to $120 on Ebay, low hanging fruit, I suppose.

Rise of the Ronin looks interesting from Team Ninja. They were the ones who made Ninja Gaiden, right? During the 2nd game, they toned down the blood animation making it multi-colored. I had avoided their games ever since, until on the ER thread (might have been you?), someone highly recommended Nioh2. I'm assuming the blood is back, otherwise I'd refund that thing within the 2 hour Steam window.

Seems like many console games these days are made for children or casual (Candy Crust clique) gamers.
 

Mahboi

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2024
1,035
1,900
96
So I've thought about the PS5 Pro situation
No, I'm not gonna open a subject and write 4 hours' worth of text about it, it's not that deep...ish
 
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sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,267
655
126
I will say nioh 2 is a much better game than Rise of the Ronin. In terms of combat and abilities, for example. I follow fightin cowboy in YouTube since he does a ton of souls like game walkthroughs and he was hoping Ronin would be a continuation of nioh 2 but open world but it's not.

The graphics are ok, the horse runs like a cardboard cutout. The combat is alright, you have a dodge and a weird counter parry button that doesn't work exactly like a parry. It's weird until you get used to it but it's hard to become used to it. So you only have light attack and that counter spark button. Enemies later have a bunch of hyper armor too.

I prefer nioh 2 even though I never finished it but Ronin could be the more chill version of that type of game.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,325
146
The last playstation for me was the 3. I have a Switch, which I basically just call my Metroid Dread machine. That's all it's for.

I'm definitely considering the PS5 Pro, was kinda waiting for it...but next year, I think. The price is ridiculous for me, but I'm not someone that considers that in the light of upgrading from recent generations. Also, my primary gaming PC is from 2017ish (still Zen 1.5 --though I have one that I build last year that is dedicated to my ridiculous racing simulator).

The last God of War that I played was GOWII on PS2, so there are many many games for me to go back on. So, I mean, I'm kinda in the market for this sort of travesty.
 

MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
207
86
71
I prefer nioh 2 even though I never finished it but Ronin could be the more chill version of that type of game.

Ah, made easier for the slow reflex crowd? Ok, not for me. The moment Nioh2 goes on sale, I'm picking it up.

PS - I used fighting cowboy's ER walkthrough after I was finished. Dude makes the best walkthroughs I've ever seen.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,267
655
126
Ah, made easier for the slow reflex crowd? Ok, not for me. The moment Nioh2 goes on sale, I'm picking it up.

PS - I used fighting cowboy's ER walkthrough after I was finished. Dude makes the best walkthroughs I've ever seen.
Not so much for slow reflexes as it does get much harder later on in the game. But just that Nioh 2 has more options for combat in terms of stances and light/heavy combos.

Without FightinCowboy I don't think I would have enjoyed elden ring as much as I did. I left off on part 67 of his ER walkthrough. One day I'll go back to it lol.
 

Mahboi

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2024
1,035
1,900
96
There's a few components to consider about the Pro:
- Pricing and what it indicates
- Promised perf goals
- PSSR GONSAYKUENCES

So for pricing, there's the obvious low hanging fruit reason: they have no competition, might as well raise the price $100 above what was expected since who's gonna force them to drag it down? It's a perfectly sound analysis. More money = more happy capitalists.
There's a less obvious reason that has been mentioned, which is that they're testing the waters to see how much they can push the prices up in prevision of PS6. Obviously the Pro is a testbed for next gen, but I doubt that any $700 + vertical stand + disk ~= $820 is going to sell in large quantities, and I think Sony knows it.

The less less obvious reason that I think the pricing indicates is that Sony is kind of entering a console Sandwich, much like Unity is entering a game engine Sandwich. Unity is getting squeezed from below by Godot Engine, while it's squeezed from above by Unreal. Unable to reach Unreal's visual prowess or Godot's modern design principles, it's slowly being squeezed out of both the indie/midsize game market and the top quality game market.

What's the future PS6 sandwich then? It's the Steam Deck 2 from below and the PC from above. No console will touch PC performance, that one's a given. But the future Steam Deck is an interesting one.
The reason people buy a console is:
- having a cheap enough, cool looking box that runs their games without any hassle
- sitting in front of a big TV with a controller in hand, no m/kb stuff
- having that "press a button, boot to gameloader, start game, autosave things seamlessly" experience

While the latter may lack autosave, and the Deck is mostly a handheld thing, it's only a matter of time until it gets strong enough to be the rest. Already people are buying ROG Allys or Legion GOs and just plug them over HDMI on a telly, and they just game with it. A bluetooth/RF controller is $50 for a really good one these days, with really pleasant plastic under the fingers. Getting a "press the controller button, boot to gameloader, play game" is already 95% made. The problem for now is that the Deck has the Console experience mostly down (may lack autosaves/freeze game status), but it's a little weak with 4 Z2 cores/8CUs. Which is a problem that all the PHX, Strix Points, Halos, etc, have or will soon largely fix. Arguably the people plopping ROG Allys with Z1 Extreme on their TV and use it as their media station, game box, etc, already consider the HW good enough.

All it takes is for Gaben to start ordering a Z6 6 core/12-16CU thing that'll boot to Steam, while letting you install Netflix, a Jellyfin or whatever you'd like. That kind of "console experience but you could also plug in a kb/mouse if you like and run your TV like a gaming PC" is basically satisfying 90% of the console market. If people still play Switch in 2024, you can be sure that it's not a 6c Zen 6 that will be severely lacking.

Which brings me back to pricing. Consoles will never (and have no point) reaching PC level HW. But if they're going to start competing with Steam Deck like boxes that can run emulators, go on the web, serve as a media box, and boot to your steam/games list and it's all controller-able, with custom boot animation and no ugly "booting linux kernel" lines...it's a tough sell. A $500 PS6 would seriously have a hard time offering itself as "vastly superior" as a full fledged Steam Deck 2 with 1/4th the processing power, but a ton of generic PC capability and still enough HW to run your PS6 games on PC with a degraded framerate and graphical experience. It's not UNSELLABLE...it's just harder to sell.

So the strategy that Sony's going for is? To raise the prices for good on the PS5 Pro, and to make $800 or so the baseline for the PS6. Sure, it'll sell less units. But just like the Pro is showing, it's allowing consoles to go from a entry-midrange GPU to a high midrange. And that's a level of performance that no cheap handheld level or mini PC box can come to. Even the Pro's 60 CUs will not be equalled or even approached by 2028. Maybe a bold one will get a 35W handheld burning in people's hands with 20-24 CUs. But you don't catch up to a 300W machine with a 30W one even if you're in the 7th year of life of the 300W machine.
I think that the price isn't just to "test the waters for PS6", it's checking their options to completely remove the "cheap box" competition out. Arguably a PS6 isn't going to be challenged by any handhelds, sure. But one, if it gets popular, mini PC boxes will go beyond handheld power levels. And two, while no box will mean anything at the PS6 launch day, a box that is "PS5 competitive" in 2028 will be replaced by a "PS6 games capable" one by 2031, and they'd rather not take the competition.
 
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MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
207
86
71
Without FightinCowboy I don't think I would have enjoyed elden ring as much as I did. I left off on part 67 of his ER walkthrough. One day I'll go back to it lol.

During his walkthrough, I found that I had missed about 30% of the stuff? While I appreciate many love the open world architecture, after ER, it's not a must have for me. I mean, if it were, I'd go play the Nintendo's Call of the Wild (?), which I never would in a million years.

As to the price of the Pro, I'm actually fine with it. As another poster poignantly observed, with the extra SSD capacity, it's not that far from my initial highest price point threshold. For me, I don't care about the stand and will just lay it flat; I mean, not as if there isn't enough room under the big TV. Ok, the drive. It's $80 and I have it. Not a big deal.

The problem for me probably shows my lack of sophistication when it comes to console gaming. I just assumed with better hardware, I can play ER with better graphics at 60 FPS on my TV. However, I'm finding out that may not be true, because I'm ultimately reliant upon Sony & their devs to update & optimize them for the Pro. This is the problem, because obviously they prefer to update the games I don't wanna play. And, that's ok, because if they make more $$ doing that, it's what they should do. What I think doesn't matter.
 

Mahboi

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2024
1,035
1,900
96
The promised perf goals are basically "4K 60", and I find it interesting, because, bluntly put, it's wrong. A clocked down 7800 XT, which is roughly a 7700 XT, is by no means a 4K 60 GPU. At a stretch one might say a 4K 60 to 40 GPU depending on load. And Zen 2 is also a bit long in the tooth so I don't expect massive results there at all. Which brings me to think that even in those demos they put, their PSSR thing was already on, and it opens a lot of new options.
Sony already had this supposedly "flexible" level of performance which I'm not sure if it was dev controlled or console controlled, but essentially it should go up and down between 2160p and 1080p (possibly 900p?) depending on how heavily queried the GPU was. And the funny thing is, I don't think they're taking that system out at all: they're going to be feeding it to PSSR.
So for example, say that you have a high/medium/low level of demand. On low level you 4K, on mid you 1440p, and on high you 1080p. Quality/Mid/Performance.
Well, now that they have PSSR, which looks good enough to be turned on at all times, we're going to go from different resolutions to the same resolution and same stable framerate: 4K 60. And PSSR will be the knob that gets turned up and down automagically. On high query, it's 4K native on the Pro. On mid, 1440p upscaled to 4K. And on high, 1080p upscaled to 4K.
The funny thing about that is, it's an excellent way to handle heavier scenes. Instead of getting a low res image, you'll be getting a mid res/high res image, but with a different level of upscaling active. It SHOULD be seamless enough, and it should also guarantee a high framerate and constant 4K even on a 7700 XT level of performance.

More importantly, it probably (almost definitely really) is based off FSR. Which means that Sony doesn't just have the upscaler on which they add AI image correction, they also have FSR 3. Which if you follow the logic should yield the following either over the lifetime of PS5 Pro, either for PS6:
4K 120 FPS on all games with stable framerate
If you know FSR 3 and how it got released with only Vsync at first, you know its goal: to get VSync limited at a certain framerate and to double that framerate. Rather than push the GPU to the max perf, you give it a hard limit of say 77 FPS, and you use FG's power to pump it up to 144 FPS. This is not so much about framerate than about frametimes being as equal and stable as possible. It also means that if your GPU is more or less capable of say 90 FPS, you save on power (and fan noise and unnecessary frametime spikes) by locking at 77, but still getting the max perf out of your hypothetical 144 FPS TV (most of them are still on 120 if memory serves).
Also FG needs frametime * 1.5 to get an image out, so you get a delay which at a 144Hz target would be:
1 / 77 * 1.5 * 1000 = 19.4ms.

If you tell most gamers "the PS6/PS5 Pro can lock your games at 144 FPS with constant frametime and you only pay a 20ms penalty for it", 99% of them will run it. I see grandmaster level players that play on 25ms ping online and others at 50ms, you don't hear them yell that the extra 25ms are what kills them.

So PSSR, if it is as good visually as the first impressions seem to be, has a very bright future ahead of itself, both in the Pro and later. It's going to replace lower res entirely with different levels of upscaling, and I believe it will in time provide framegen. Getting a 4K 120 fps, 4K 144fps, and possibly the still memey 8K 120 fps will probably be at least a little bit doable with the PS6, although it's never going above 1440p/4K upscaling in effect.
Getting this kind of performance with a good quality upscaler + framegen is vital, but I really think that it's going to be done within the 4 years of the PS5 Pro, I.E be fully primed when the PS6 comes out.
A 4K 120 fps constant console that can dip into 6K/8K without going into insane pricing is going to be very interesting to see. Although they are clearly testing to see if they can get the insane pricing and offer a 90 CU (so roughly XTX level perf) for 2028.
 
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MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
207
86
71
The promised perf goals are basically "4K 60", and I find it interesting, because, bluntly put, it's wrong.

Very insightful posts and you provide some very helpful color analysis here, at least for me.

4K @ 60 fps with RT is even a challenge for the RTX 4080. Maybe, the 4090 could handle it? Generally, I never go with the the highest tier performance CPU/GPU, but the one just below it. What I can say is that for my current 12GB OC 3080, it can't handle 4K @ 60 fps with RT, and I'll generally just disable the ray tracing. Ideally, I'd like 4K @ 60 fps sans DLSS. Not sure if it's doable with today's incredible games, but that would appeal to me.

At the risk of beating a dead horse here, if Sony can assure me I'd get 4K @ 60 fps on ER and/or a future Bloodborne (remaster or 2), I'd pay them $1,000 for it. If not, even if they gave it to me for free, what would I do with it? Play games I don't really wanna play? Life is far to short to ever do anything I don't wanna do.
 
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sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,267
655
126
Not even the 4090 with RT can do solid 60 fps all the time in all the latest titles. There's always the nice option of having dlss and frame gen to help with that. I'm hoping with the 5090 I'll be able to do some RT at native 4k.

Even the switch 2 leaks are claiming 4k 60 but obviously this also involves upscaling tech involved.
 

MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
207
86
71
I'm hoping with the 5090 I'll be able to do some RT at native 4k.

So, it'll debut with an asking price of about $2,500?

Jokes aside, with the new OLED monitors coming down in price, if the 5080 can run native 4K @ 60 fps with RT on low or medium, I may just bite the bullet and pick one up.

My conundrum of not being able to play games in my TV room will have to remain unresolved until the PS6, I suppose.
 

Mahboi

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2024
1,035
1,900
96
Very insightful posts and you provide some very helpful color analysis here, at least for me.

4K @ 60 fps with RT is even a challenge for the RTX 4080. Maybe, the 4090 could handle it?
"4K" in reviews is 4K Ultra, no console will do it. At best it's 4K high, most of it does a mix of 4K High and Medium. Hence the DF/HWUB "console equivalent settings".
Most games will get a solid 20% improvement at 4K High over Ultra.
And if you look at for example the Techpowerup review of the 7700 XT (which isn't QUITE the PS5 Pro but very close), it's "58 FPS average", but it's actually 31 fps for say Cyberpunk or really demanding games. With 20% better, it's high 30s for the most demanding games, so I do think it's already going to be on PSSR to run at 1440p/1080p.
Generally, I never go with the the highest tier performance CPU/GPU, but the one just below it. What I can say is that for my current 12GB OC 3080, it can't handle 4K @ 60 fps with RT, and I'll generally just disable the ray tracing. Ideally, I'd like 4K @ 60 fps sans DLSS. Not sure if it's doable with today's incredible games, but that would appeal to me.
Nope, not happening especially with RT.
At the risk of beating a dead horse here, if Sony can assure me I'd get 4K @ 60 fps on ER and/or a future Bloodborne (remaster or 2), I'd pay them $1,000 for it. If not, even if they gave it to me for free, what would I do with it? Play games I don't really wanna play? Life is far to short to ever do anything I don't wanna do.
That's the goal yep.
 
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