Official Presidential Debate #2 thread

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

That is exactly what he is hoping to do with this scheme. I saw a report today on the number of home forclosures state by state.. And nearly every single battleground state had a high or "above average" forclosure rate. Bailing out the battleground states = vote buying.

LMAO

Props to McCain for setting up home foreclosures in battleground states!

This plan is a crock, but really folks, there's stretching, and then there's stretching. Vote buying? Really?

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

Do you think he will actually follow through with that plan?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Well this little thread of mine has gotten some attention apparently

Going into it I was leaning McCain, but what I took away from that debate were a few things:

First, and most importantly both said a lot, but didn't really say anything. They didn't answer the questions, and kept repeating the same crap.

Second, neither followed the agreed upon rules. Tsk Tsk. They both looked like uncaring idiots that wouldn't listen to the moderator (so why would they listen to me the voter when in office?), and ignorant of time.

Third, McCain in almost every answer tried to bash Obama. It was a "dirty" debate from both, but Obama didn't make it as apparent (and seemed to restrain it a bit more).

Fourth, McCain's "mortgage buyback" program he talked of scared the sh*t out of me. To be fair Obama did too when he talked of "tax cuts" when we shouldn't cut taxation currently, we should cut spending use the taxation to pay down this debt. Both talk of increased spending, which I am against.

Fifth, McCain's response to "what order would you work on energy, education, and entitlements" was utter shit. He believes we can do all at once? Great, so none of them get done right, and just plant the seeds for later issues to arise. Obama definitely won this question for me.

Sixth, McCain wants to "freeze" everything except defense spending and other "crucial" spending areas? Okay I don't know about putting a "freeze" on them, but locking their budgets to their 2008 budget for 2+ years I wouldn't be against (or reducing it a bit). Next I want to know what the "other" areas are. I also don't think we should increase defense spending. That is a big part of our governments debt, due to spending for "defense". It's a cop out. If I have no reason to justify it, then it's for "National Defense".

Seventh, helping China with "clean" energy that we sell them I am all for. How about we use it to eliminate some of that $500 bn outstanding debt they hold over us?

Eighth, McCain bothered me by getting so close to the crowd and saying "My friend(s)" every other sentence. Don't act like one of us. You aren't. You are a rich guy, that never had to deal with most of the stuff the "average" American does daily. That goes for you too Mr. Obama.

Ninth, Obama scored points with me for the AIG stuff. I would be fine with revoking the entire bailout we gave them, but realize that would never happen. I would expect they give back $500,000 and fire the people who designed/followed through with that outing.

Tenth, "that one" is not racial. Maybe a poor choice of words (degrading him like that is just poor taste), but don't start this whole "he wanted to say n***** after that" shit. Talk about making something out of nothing....

Eleventh, they both made some pretty good cracks in there (lost a wheel on the straight-talk express was classic, and so was nailing jello to the wall), but neither really "hit it home" IMO.

There are some other points as well, but that's about the sum of important parts to me. I believe McCain won the debate, but I am starting to lean Obama because of it. Both have some serious flaws that I don't agree with, including that both have the same general views just different "spins" on it. I want the days where you had more of one side "for" something and the other "against", instead of this "we agree we want to implement a form of x, but we differ on how/to what extent" crap.

McCain has begun to scare me. Majorly. Obama does too, but is seeming like the "lesser of two evils" now. FWIW I am in the "battleground" state of Ohio.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

Do you think he will actually follow through with that plan?

I'm pretty sure Dave is just joking. Otherwise I have to mock him in drinking the Kool Aid (irony is a funny friend).

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

Do you think he will actually follow through with that plan?

About the same odds as Obama cutting taxes for 95% of people with democratic congress and no backbone. I have a better chance at winning the powerball than either of these 2 things happening.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

Damn socialist candidates.

 

[MikeyLSU]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

Do you think he will actually follow through with that plan?

About the same odds as Obama cutting taxes for 95% of people with democratic congress and no backbone. I have a better chance at winning the powerball than either of these 2 things happening.

what is not talked about much is Obama wants to cut taxes for 95% of Americans(his words not mine).

Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

Do you think he will actually follow through with that plan?

About the same odds as Obama cutting taxes for 95% of people with democratic congress and no backbone. I have a better chance at winning the powerball than either of these 2 things happening.

what is not talked about much is Obama wants to cut taxes for 95% of Americans(his words not mine).

Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

False.

The number you are referring to is only related to income taxes. We all pay plenty of taxes in lots of other ways.

 

[MikeyLSU]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

Do you think he will actually follow through with that plan?

About the same odds as Obama cutting taxes for 95% of people with democratic congress and no backbone. I have a better chance at winning the powerball than either of these 2 things happening.

what is not talked about much is Obama wants to cut taxes for 95% of Americans(his words not mine).

Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

False.

The number you are referring to is only related to income taxes. We all pay plenty of taxes in lots of other ways.

well yeah, everyone pays sales taxes and such. But Obama is cutting Income taxes, therefore it is safe to say so am I. If he gets his way, he will be giving out handouts to 40% of the American public.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

what is not talked about much is Obama wants to cut taxes for 95% of Americans(his words not mine).

Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

False.

The number you are referring to is only related to income taxes. We all pay plenty of taxes in lots of other ways.

well yeah, everyone pays sales taxes and such. But Obama is cutting Income taxes, therefore it is safe to say so am I. If he gets his way, he will be giving out handouts to 40% of the American public.

But why does that matter? Your wallet doesn't care if you are paying income tax, property tax, sales tax, or gas tax. Even if lower income people get a larger refund or whatever at the end of the year, they are still net tax payers.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have no choice but to vote for McCain now.

His mortgage plan will save me from the fact that my house appraisal dropped 20% so he will buy back my mortgage, reset it and save me.

He bought my vote.

Do you think he will actually follow through with that plan?

I'm pretty sure Dave is just joking. Otherwise I have to mock him in drinking the Kool Aid (irony is a funny friend).

I think the fact that Obama is very likely going to win has finally broken through Dave's reality distortion field. Now he's setting himself up as a McCain supporter so he can continue to be on the losing side and have something to complain about for the next 4-8 years.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
well yeah, everyone pays sales taxes and such. But Obama is cutting Income taxes, therefore it is safe to say so am I. If he gets his way, he will be giving out handouts to 40% of the American public.

But why does that matter? Your wallet doesn't care if you are paying income tax, property tax, sales tax, or gas tax. Even if lower income people get a larger refund or whatever at the end of the year, they are still net tax payers.

Exactly. There are many ways to skin this cat properly aside from what may seem like the direct way of doing things.

 

[MikeyLSU]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

what is not talked about much is Obama wants to cut taxes for 95% of Americans(his words not mine).

Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

False.

The number you are referring to is only related to income taxes. We all pay plenty of taxes in lots of other ways.

well yeah, everyone pays sales taxes and such. But Obama is cutting Income taxes, therefore it is safe to say so am I. If he gets his way, he will be giving out handouts to 40% of the American public.

But why does that matter? Your wallet doesn't care if you are paying income tax, property tax, sales tax, or gas tax. Even if lower income people get a larger refund or whatever at the end of the year, they are still net tax payers.

Then why not get rid of the federal sales tax? Or at least lower it? If his intent is to "lower taxes" why not actually lower taxes instead of giving handouts. There is a difference. But this is his only way to raise taxes on the upper-middle class at the same time.

 

[Ballatician]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt

Originally posted by: Thump553

I think McCain has a deep personal hatred of Obama that he does a very poor job of concealing. Think how he'd do in negotiations with someone like Putin-they would play him like a fiddle.

This is my thought too. I think it provides a startling insight into the way Mccain will treat those he disagrees with once he is in power...He sees those with different beliefs as enemies.. They deserve no diplomacy..no respect...no common ground...just the cold shoulder and battle tactics.

It certainly seems that way watching his body language in all the debates.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Then why not get rid of the federal sales tax? Or at least lower it? If his intent is to "lower taxes" why not actually lower taxes instead of giving handouts. There is a difference. But this is his only way to raise taxes on the upper-middle class at the same time.

I'm not sure why you keep calling it a 'handout'. If I paid $10 last year, and this year I only have to pay $5, I don't view that as a handout. What are they handing me other than a bill? (albeit a smaller one)

The reason why Obama wouldn't get rid of the sales tax is because he wants to target his tax relief to lower income earners instead of an across the board tax cut. He doesn't want to cut taxes on the top income earners, a prospect I welcome. I'm not really sure where the confusion is.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU


Then why not get rid of the federal sales tax? Or at least lower it? If his intent is to "lower taxes" why not actually lower taxes instead of giving handouts. There is a difference. But this is his only way to raise taxes on the upper-middle class at the same time.

I don't think there is a Federal Sales Tax, yet.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
McCain has begun to scare me. Majorly. Obama does too, but is seeming like the "lesser of two evils" now. FWIW I am in the "battleground" state of Ohio.

Me too (McCain starting to scare me), and me too (Ohio)!

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: sierrita

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU


Then why not get rid of the federal sales tax? Or at least lower it? If his intent is to "lower taxes" why not actually lower taxes instead of giving handouts. There is a difference. But this is his only way to raise taxes on the upper-middle class at the same time.

I don't think there is a Federal Sales Tax, yet.

Shouldn't you log out and post as feralkid?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Baked
McCain's a dirty old bastard. I'm listening to the 2nd debate again on NPR, I can't believe he's keep talking shit about Obama taking bribes from Fannie and Freddie, when it's probably himself who did all that shit, but since he's so damn old, he doesn't remember anything. And the condescending tone he directed to the black guy audience about how he probably never heard of Fannie and Freddie before this shit storm is sickening. He might as well take off his fake ass mask and start calling Obama "that n*gger." And he has the nerve to accuse Obama of running shit w/ his cronies. Hey old man, I think you should direct that comment towards Bush and his big oil buddies.

Obama did take the 2nd most contributions from Fannie and Freddie. Get over it. McCain labels it as bribes. To be PC it's political contributions, but so what? If Bush got those you would be calling them bribes right?

You're pulling half the racist crap out of your butt. If you want to play victim and QQ over McCain's words and act like they're all racist, go ahead.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU


Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

Where do you get that info from? seriously? I know I have heard it as a talking point from reps int he past, but it cant be true.

I remember when I was younger, just starting out making less than 20k per year - way below average income and I paid taxes. I dont think there are 45% that are not paying, thats rediculous.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU


Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

Where do you get that info from? seriously? I know I have heard it as a talking point from reps int he past, but it cant be true.

I remember when I was younger, just starting out making less than 20k per year - way below average income and I paid taxes. I dont think there are 45% that are not paying, thats rediculous.

Well if people under 18 are counted, that's what, 25% right there? And people over 18 working pure cash jobs? And retirees with no income? I can imagine it's not that far off, even if it's not the exact number.

 

[MikeyLSU]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU


Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

Where do you get that info from? seriously? I know I have heard it as a talking point from reps int he past, but it cant be true.

I remember when I was younger, just starting out making less than 20k per year - way below average income and I paid taxes. I dont think there are 45% that are not paying, thats rediculous.

Well if people under 18 are counted, that's what, 25% right there? And people over 18 working pure cash jobs? And retirees with no income? I can imagine it's not that far off, even if it's not the exact number.

don't forget that many working minimum wage jobs and I think somewhere under $20,000 a year pay taxes, but get it all back when they file their taxes so in essence they are not paying income taxes.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU


Yet only 55% of Americans actually pay taxes. So that means yet again with the Democratic Party, 40% of Americans will be getting a handout.

Where do you get that info from? seriously? I know I have heard it as a talking point from reps int he past, but it cant be true.

I remember when I was younger, just starting out making less than 20k per year - way below average income and I paid taxes. I dont think there are 45% that are not paying, thats rediculous.

Well if people under 18 are counted, that's what, 25% right there? And people over 18 working pure cash jobs? And retirees with no income? I can imagine it's not that far off, even if it's not the exact number.

don't forget that many working minimum wage jobs and I think somewhere under $20,000 a year pay taxes, but get it all back when they file their taxes so in essence they are not paying income taxes.

AFAIK, the lowest federal income tax bracket is still 10%

 

[chess9]

"The Worst Debate Ever"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14396.html

I suggest that for the next Presidential Election the debate commission have two trial lawyers asking the questions, and each lawyer have two clerks connected to the internet to double check all answers. If any of you have watched an appellate brief being argued, you'd understand what I mean. Interruptions, scathing questions, even open hostility to the candidates' proposals.

To McCain's proposal on mortgages I can hear someone like Supreme Court Justice Scalia saying to him: "Are you a Republican, or a Socialist? Why is that a good idea?" Etc. They could have a lot of fun with Obama's healthcare plan as well.

The problem with the 'DEBATES' is that they lack DIALECTIC TENSION. The candidates usually speak past each other, and not to the issues. Palin is the worst offender, but both McCain and Obama have a tendency to drift and get preachy.

It's time to hold their feet to the fire, like they try to do at Prime Minister's Questions (PMQ) in England, but with an almost prosecutorial twist.

At least it would be entertaining.

-Robert

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: chess9
"The Worst Debate Ever"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14396.html

I suggest that for the next Presidential Election the debate commission have two trial lawyers asking the questions, and each lawyer have two clerks connected to the internet to double check all answers. If any of you have watched an appellate brief being argued, you'd understand what I mean. Interruptions, scathing questions, even open hostility to the candidates' proposals.

To McCain's proposal on mortgages I can hear someone like Supreme Court Justice Scalia saying to him: "Are you a Republican, or a Socialist? Why is that a good idea?" Etc. They could have a lot of fun with Obama's healthcare plan as well.

The problem with the 'DEBATES' is that they lack DIALECTIC TENSION. The candidates usually speak past each other, and not to the issues. Palin is the worst offender, but both McCain and Obama have a tendency to drift and get preachy.

It's time to hold their feet to the fire, like they try to do at Prime Minister's Questions (PMQ) in England, but with an almost prosecutorial twist.

At least it would be entertaining.

-Robert

I officially turned on McCain last night after hearing his housing proposal. I'm officially off that train wreck. Did he and Obama f'ing trade scripts last night?