***OFFICIAL*** Ryzen 5000 / Zen 3 Launch Thread REVIEWS BEGIN PAGE 39

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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
I would prefer to pay as little as possible for everthing if I could, but.. Nvidia doubled prices, literally, from $700 to $1400, for the performance crown pedigree. These prices are not that bad, what does Intel have for $400 compared to the 5900x?

Actually, I wonder if we will finally see Intel have to really cut prices once Zen 3 launches?

I dont thing they will ever do, current Intel CPUs will be replaced with new CPUs in Q1 2021.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,584
1,743
136
I'm not in denial - I'm spouting facts. It is fact that AMD used outlier results in their presentation. It is also fact that Intel gains much more than AMD with a memory overclock. And finally it is fact that first party benchmarks are often painting a picture better than it actually is. All these combined leads me to believe that AMD isn't going to win decisively in gaming.

Go back to page 9 of this thread - I have proven that there are outliers in AMD's data. If you choose not to believe it, then it's a problem with you brushing facts under the carpet, not mine.
They are outliers if they aren't representative of the sample. If you sampled twice as many games and no other ones had similar gains, maybe you exclude them. If you double your sample and there are more games where AMD is 20ish% ahead, then it's representative.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,865
3,729
136
They are outliers if they aren't representative of the sample. If you sampled twice as many games and no other ones had similar gains, maybe you exclude them. If you double your sample and there are more games where AMD is 20ish% ahead, then it's representative.
That'll depend on the details of the calculation. If 2 out of 10 samples are outliers, then 4 out of 20 MAY still be outliers.
 
Reactions: lobz

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
Why would I feel grateful to a corporation? Their 6C/12T just went from $200 to $300, why would I not think that sucks and doesn't sound like a good deal?

Actually from $249 to $299 as Ryzen 5600X is replacing the 3600X/XT

Ryzen 5 six core MSRPs at release.

Ryzen 1600 = MSRP $219
Ryzen 1600X = MSRP $219

Ryzen 2600 = MSRP $199
Ryzen 2600X = MSRP $229

Ryzen 3600 = MSRP $199
Ryzen 3600X = MSRP $249
Ryzen 3600XT = MSRP $249

Ryzen 5600X = MSRP $299

And todays Intel 6C 12T competitors

Core i5 10400F = MSRP $157
Core i5 10400 = MSRP $182
Core i5 10500 = MSRP $192
Core i5 10600 = MSRP $213
Core i5 10600KF = MSRP $237 (No Heatsink)
Core i5 10600K = MSRP $262 (No Heatsink)
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,120
5,998
136
Actually from $249 to $299 as Ryzen 5600X is replacing the 3600X/XT

Ryzen 5 six core MSRPs at release.

Ryzen 1600 = MSRP $219
Ryzen 1600X = MSRP $219

Ryzen 2600 = MSRP $199
Ryzen 2600X = MSRP $229

Ryzen 3600 = MSRP $199
Ryzen 3600X = MSRP $249
Ryzen 3600XT = MSRP $249

Ryzen 5600X = MSRP $299

And todays Intel 6C 12T competitors

Core i5 10400F = MSRP $157
Core i5 10400 = MSRP $182
Core i5 10500 = MSRP $192
Core i5 10600 = MSRP $213
Core i5 10600KF = MSRP $237 (No Heatsink)
Core i5 10600K = MSRP $262 (No Heatsink)

Disagree, 3600 was the 6C/12T midrange Ryzen chip everyone bought and the one everyone referred to when talking about how Ryzen 2 was such great value for the time. And now the new 6C/12T midrange Ryzen chip is $300. Just because it has an X in its model name doesn't mean it's not a 3600 replacement.
 
Reactions: Kirito

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,741
14,772
136
Yeah I'm not paying $300 for a six core cpu. I don't get people who root for AMD like they're any more our friend than Intel is.
I don't root for a company. Just the best product for the price. Most of AtenRa's CPUs are lower, but lower performing. And no benchmarks on the 5600x. I will reserve final judgement until impartial reviews come out, but the 5xxx series looks killer right now.
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,218
1,153
136
There is no need to defend AMD pricing. Unlike Intel, when demand is low they have always understood price reductions throughout the product cycle. Intel never had price reductions until Ryzen. That is how bad AMD was for so many years. I am disappointed with the price increases of the motherboard. I went to the deal archives and found the Asus Rog Strix X470-f with a 2600x for $230ish in 2019. The Rog Strix x470 with a 2700x for $340. A 2700 with the ROG Strix x470f for $270 in August 2019. Now the Rog Strix x470-f is modestly priced @ $230.

I should point out that Ryzen was released in 2017. It's almost 2021 and they are finally going to beat intel in gaming? I don't understand the pricing structure. I miss the days of motherboard CPU combo deals that went back to original Ryzen CPU's and continued through at least Zen +. I do not understand the motherboard pricing structure. Zen 4 requires an all new chipset and motherboard. So why are the motherboards not cheaper to close out the X470 and X570.

I read they are planning a Zen3+ for next year. They will release a X670 motherboard when that processor line is released before Zen4.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,120
5,998
136
I don't root for a company. Just the best product for the price. Most of AtenRa's CPUs are lower, but lower performing. And no benchmarks on the 5600x. I will reserve final judgement until impartial reviews come out, but the 5xxx series looks killer right now.

Meh it doesn't look any good in the midrange. I can see the excitement at the high-end but $300 for a 6C/12T chip sounds insane. Might as well just spend $80 more and get a 10700k and get two extra cores if I was going to spend in that price range.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
Disagree, 3600 was the 6C/12T midrange Ryzen chip everyone bought and the one everyone referred to when talking about how Ryzen 2 was such great value for the time. And now the new 6C/12T midrange Ryzen chip is $300. Just because it has an X in its model name doesn't mean it's not a 3600 replacement.

So when they will release the Ryzen 5 5600 (non X) in a few months down the road what CPU will replace ???
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
Meh it doesn't look any good in the midrange. I can see the excitement at the high-end but $300 for a 6C/12T chip sounds insane. Might as well just spend $80 more and get a 10700k and get two extra cores if I was going to spend in that price range.

Wait for 2-3 months and when Intel will release the new CPUs in Q1 2021 AMD will also release new ZEN 3 models (cheaper)
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,223
1,598
136
I really do think its odd we didn't get a lower tier 8-core. Perhaps supplies are limited and they want to increase margin?

Given the 2 new consoles launching contain and AMD SOC, Zen3 launch, full-stack GPU refresh all at the same time it's pretty clear supply will be an issue. Hence they raise prices while leaving room for a 5700x and 5600 once supply situation has improved. If you don't have the supply anyway it doesn't hurt if you scare away some buyers with higher prices. I suspect Ryzen5000-series will see much lower sales initial than 3000-series due to the pricing and many already having upgraded last year.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,393
12,825
136
Meh it doesn't look any good in the midrange. I can see the excitement at the high-end but $300 for a 6C/12T chip sounds insane.
Were you ever in the market for the six-core X parts from AMD? Because many people here considered them low value. The 1600X launched at $249 MSRP and guess what -> it came without a cooler! Talk about bad value right there.

Might as well just spend $80 more and get a 10700k and get two extra cores if I was going to spend in that price range.
Make the effort to stay reasonable, the 10700K is a $375 part without a cooler, add a cheap cooler and you're at $400. You overreacted because 5600X is $50 more expensive than historical prices, yet less than 24 hours later you're willing to spend $100 more for 2 extra cores with lower IPC and higher power consumption?!

FYI the 5600X will likely tie the 10700K in gaming. So that's $100 dollars you save towards a new GPU.

If you want value
  1. acknowledge this is not a good time for PC prices as there's a global pandemic that keeps people indoors and buying games and computer parts
  2. wait for the cheaper 5600
  3. buy the $160-180 10400F and feel good about yourself until you realize you just bought 2017 levels of performance
  4. buy the $380 10700K and make sure you don't tell us about it so we don't compare your purchase on November 5
 

RTX2080

Senior member
Jul 2, 2018
322
511
136
There is no need to defend AMD pricing. Unlike Intel, when demand is low they have always understood price reductions throughout the product cycle. Intel never had price reductions until Ryzen. That is how bad AMD was for so many years. I am disappointed with the price increases of the motherboard. I went to the deal archives and found the Asus Rog Strix X470-f with a 2600x for $230ish in 2019. The Rog Strix x470 with a 2700x for $340. A 2700 with the ROG Strix x470f for $270 in August 2019. Now the Rog Strix x470-f is modestly priced @ $230.
+1 to this. Pricing is always judge by market, if something is at high price it would be adjusted to a sustainable price, it's annoying to see people always argue about something that they would not buy.
 

lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
2,057
2,856
136
I'm not in denial - I'm spouting facts. It is fact that AMD used outlier results in their presentation. It is also fact that Intel gains much more than AMD with a memory overclock. And finally it is fact that first party benchmarks are often painting a picture better than it actually is. All these combined leads me to believe that AMD isn't going to win decisively in gaming.

Go back to page 9 of this thread - I have proven that there are outliers in AMD's data. If you choose not to believe it, then it's a problem with you brushing facts under the carpet, not mine.
Yes, you absolutely keep proving your point to yourself, exactly in the same style like someone I know here, who's very fond of the number 83. Good for you, I guess?
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
From newegg , current prices.

Cheapest Z490 = $130
Core i5 10600K = $275
Cooler = $35

Total = $440

Cheapest B550 = $90 (actually cheapest is $80)
Ryzen 5600X = $300

Total = $390

Ryzen 5 at same Gaming performance with half the power consumption , upgradability path up to 16C 32T 5950X, PCIe gen 4 is cheaper.

Imagine when 5600 will release at $239-249 how much better vfm it will be.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,865
3,729
136
Yes, you absolutely keep proving your point to yourself, exactly in the same style like someone I know here, who's very fond of the number 83. Good for you, I guess?
It seems you deny statistics. Don't worry you're not the only person in the world with the same affliction.
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,866
699
136
Prices are super bad right now.
Cheapest zen2 6core at launch 200usd.
Cheapest zen3 6core at launch 300usd.
50% price increase

Cheapest zen2 8core at launch-329usd
Cheapest zen3 8core at launch 450usd
36% price increase

This is how it is right now and will be untill amd launches 5600 non x or 5700x.But they didint launch them so prices are really bad.

5900x have best price/perf of all zen3 cpus because its only cpu that acually sees 50usd price increase.If we compare 3700x vs 5800x there is 120USD price increase and 3600 vs 5600x there is 100usd price increase.AMD screw us all for not realeasing 5600 non x and 5700x because 3600 and 3700x was cpus to buy if you wanted zen2 6/8core(pretty much same perf as 3600x/3800x but cost way less).Pretty much every review did tell how 3600x and 3800x are super crap and no one should buy them vs 3600 and 3700x.
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,223
1,598
136
This is how it is right now and will be untill amd launches 5600 non x or 5700x.But they didint launch them so prices are really bad.

As said just above, AMD most likley knows supply will be limited. So the launch will only include the more pricey options.
Plus everything else I said above (competition also having supply issues hence no need to fear them lowering prices).
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
Prices are super bad right now.
Cheapest zen2 6core at launch 200usd.
Cheapest zen3 6core at launch 300usd.
50% price increase

Cheapest zen2 8core at launch-329usd
Cheapest zen3 8core at launch 450usd
36% price increase

This is how it is right now and will be untill amd launches 5600 non x or 5700x.But they didint launch them so prices are really bad.

5900x have best price/perf of all zen3 cpus because its only cpu that acually sees 50usd price increase.If we compare 3700x vs 5800x there is 120USD price increase and 3600 vs 5600x there is 100usd price increase.AMD screw us all for not realeasing 5600 non x and 5700x because 3600 and 3700x was cpus to buy if you wanted zen2 6/8core(pretty much same perf as 3600x/3800x but cost way less).Pretty much every review did tell how 3600x and 3800x are super crap and no one should buy them vs 3600 and 3700x.

I have the "feeling" that 5600X will be faster in gaming and almost same performance in MultiThread vs same priced 3700X
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,393
12,825
136
This pricing discussion reminds me of another thread which aged like milk. People are buying this stuff left and right, whether it's AMD, Nvidia, Intel, Apple. In a time of economic depression the computing and online service giants are flourishing.

I have the "feeling" that 5600X will be faster in gaming and almost same performance in MultiThread vs same priced 3700X
I have a feeling we have yet to know the true potential of Zen 3 in gaming. Up until now we've seen only 2 chiplet design gaming performance, which is inherently suboptimal for gaming even with large unified L3 on each chiplet.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136
If one factors in the fact that this is more or less the final cpu generation of the AM4 platform, then prices are only going to go up since most current Ryzen owner's upgrade path ends with Zen 3. In that regard, the 5900x holds the better value, long term, and the 5600x, the worst value.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136
I have a feeling we have yet to know the true potential of Zen 3 in gaming. Up until now we've seen only 2 chiplet design gaming performance, which is inherently suboptimal for gaming even with large unified L3 on each chiplet.
Are you suggesting AMD chose to showcase their new gen cpu launch with something other than their best gaming chip in the gaming benchmarks? Haven't you learned anything from previous launch presentations?
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,816
21,565
146
Reading reactions around the web; AMD is facing the same nonsensical and unfair criticism they always have. The following is my facetious attempt to incapsulate what I have read being posted about this launch.

Our tale opens with the knowledge that it has been a long and arduous journey for our much maligned underdog to get to where they are today. Here, look in this crystal ball, back to 5 years ago, to forums all over the kingdom! Do you see it? It's rampant speculation about how the underdog is done, put a fork in them. Lots of talk of who might buy their farm, or if their farm would be discharged to pay debtors. Things looked very dark indeed.

You see kids, once upon a time, there was a long period of unquestioning rule by a Giant. And what did the giant do most of the time? Tick tock, it would use its clock, year after year, meeting out small increases in crops, with unchanging numbers of bushels. Adding a few more bushels for a crazy mark up and calling it gourmet. Meanwhile obfuscating the trinket market to the point where peasants where buying overpriced 2/4 trinkets! All because of one of the giant's most powerful incantations; it had an i7 sticker on it! But the peasants would shout "Please giant, may we have some more"?!?

Now as the legend has it, if you stood up and lamented about any of those foul deeds, a horde would appear, chanting about how it was actually the underdog's fault! "That's right! The underdog's farm goods are trash, so the giant can get away with whatever it wants", they would chant! "Why," they would say, "if only the underdog would rise up and fight back, The giant would have to offer more for less." "Yessss!" they would hiss, "think about it!"

Well, one day, as the giant lounged around, too lazy to even whip the servants for failing in their duties, the underdog rose up and started fighting back! Trading blows with the giant. A new vigor about him. No longer could the giant keep him from bringing his produce to market. The underdog's goods were fresh and tasty, and the prices were fair. Many peasants started to buy from the underdog. The underdog even made enough money to keep the farm from being foreclosed on. And to buy enough seeds to plant more crops, and buy more fertilizer. But there is still debt to pay, and it depends on having another good season, and being able to fetch the best price for his blue ribbon winning goods.

Which brings us to today: The underdog has done everything the horde said he must to break the enchantment. But neither the horde nor many of the peasants cheered the underdog. Instead they immediately turned on the underdog! "You are worse than the giant now!" they all screamed. "But", said the underdog, "What about the fact that both the giant and I offer better stuff now, and more of it, because of what I did?" "Or that my stuff is better than the giants now?" "You charge just as much as the giant does! You are not supposed to do that. You are supposed to give us better stuff for less money!" They screamed. "But if I do that, I will not be able to save my farm, or afford the seeds to plant the new crops that will keep my farm going." said the underdog. "That's not our problem. We don't want your stuff anyways! Never planned to buy any of it from you!" "I don't understand" said the underdog. "We just wanted you to do it, so we could get more stuff, for less money, from the giant." *nods of agreement from the mob"

Even some of the peasants that bought the underdog's stuff turned on him. Saying that while they enjoyed the stuff, they would never pay the same prices as for the giant's. That in fact, they would now buy from the giant again, because the underdog had raised prices. They said this, despite the fact that the prices were still fair for what you got compared to the giant's.

Now, I have looked into the crystal ball, and this is what I see. If the peasants only buy from the underdog when he offers fire sale prices, darkness will return to the land. The giant will go back to his old ways. Only this time, there will be no underdog. And eventually, invaders will come, bringing super cheap trash. And the peasants will all buy it, saying "Well, its good enough for what I want." and not just the giant, but the whole kingdom, will fall into ruin.

The end
 
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