I think it will be similar to Zen1->Zen2 jump. Around 15% IPC (average), possibly a 2x jump in AVX stuff ( versus Zen3). Chiplets might be 2x8 cores or even 1x16 configuration, caches will be larger with a possibility of a massive L4 (die stacking?). If they achieve ~15% IPC jump versus Zen3 then Zen5 needs ~21% over Zen4 to get to the same 40% goal AMD has stated in the past and managed : EX->Zen1, Zen1->Zen3I know this is about Zen 3 but… is there any word/rumor on Zen 4? It's a new/competitive design like Zen 3 or evolutionary from it?
No doubt they'll release soon, just I'm not sure if another 20% is happening this close.
Zen 2 and older would become way too depreciated, literally sold for nothing then, Zen 3 too... old tech in a year? They can't push too much on that front: designing chips has a price that must be payed back, same for dices (look how they reused the interconnect one).
They can't push too much on that front: designing chips has a price that must be payed back, same for dices (look how they reused the interconnect one).
I know this is about Zen 3 but… is there any word/rumor on Zen 4? It's a new/competitive design like Zen 3 or evolutionary from it?
No doubt they'll release soon, just I'm not sure if another 20% is happening this close.
They'll get their money back. Just because something's depreciated doesn't mean it's a total loss. AMD has long-term contracts to fulfill, they still have Renoir chips flying off the shelves, and sometimes there are shortages of Matisse chips as well.
Zen 3 will coexist alongside Zen 4 for a long while. As you pointed out, Intel is unlikely to convincingly beat Zen 3 for some time, but besides that the two designs aren't competing for fab space (in a capacity constrained context), and the platforms and memory standards differ to boot.
They really don't need to hurry. 10nm is still a problem at Intel, 7nn seems equally dubious. As long as Zen 4 arrives in the 15 - 18 month window AMD should be more than okay. As long as they don't go into stasis while in the lead haha.
I think you need to lower your expectation a tad. A new IOD won't see much "better performance and less power hogging" all while introducing DDR5 and potentially PCIe 5 as well. Renior didn't really show what you claim, it only supports PCIe 3 instead 4 and not the same amount of lanes either. Uncore power usage is a real issue, but without cutting I/O it will be very interesting to see what improvements are possible.but the big kicker is finally updating that terribly performant and power hogging IO die which Renoir showed was already a significant bottleneck in zen 2 and therefore can only be an even more substantial bottleneck irt the more powerful zen 3. Hopefully with some manor of advanced packaging this time.
That's what the rumored Warhol appears to be about. Being wider Zen 3 appears to be bottlenecked by RAM bandwidth, so a Zen 3 on AM5 may unlock some more power at the high core end.what i'm curious about is if we will see a Zen 3+ but on a AM5+DDR5+PCIe 5.0 platform to get the waters ready before they drop Zen 4.
Renior didn't really show what you claim, it only supports PCIe 3 instead 4 and not the same amount of lanes either.
A new IOD won't see much "better performance and less power hogging" all while introducing DDR5 and potentially PCIe 5 as well..
No, it didn't do that. It did show which workloads profit from the larger L3 cache where Renoir performs significantly worse as a result, and that plenty workloads remain that aren't affected by that.Renoir showed that you could remove three quarters of the L3 cache and achieve roughly comparable performance.
Only if PCIe link state power management is not enabled. With it enabled it should be comparable with 400 series chipsets.X570 is a good indicator of the IOD's excessive power consumption though.
Which by itself may mean nothing. Uncore logic is notoriously hard to scale down with power usage improvement as the target. Maybe AMD finds and uses a process that is more suitable for that than GloFo's 14/12nm and TSMC's N7.New IOD should be on a better process
This I agree with, with a new platform coming I also expect changes to how the uncore is organized with potential usage of an interposer and "X3D" stacking.But, I don't expect that lowering IOD power (and therefore raising CCD power allowance) is that big of a performance boost vs lowering latency and increasing bandwidth between the IOD and CCDs. My expectation is for desktop Zen 4 to use an interposer or some other advanced packaging.
No, it didn't do that. It did show which workloads profit from the larger L3 cache where Renoir performs significantly worse as a result, and that plenty workloads remain that aren't affected by that.
Only if PCIe link state power management is not enabled. With it enabled it should be comparable with 400 series chipsets.
No u wrong.Wrong.
I think and hope AMD brings out a Zen 3+ on 5nm as the final hurrah for AM4.Now imagine what it would be like if AMD could get Zen4 out at about this time next year.
I think and hope AMD brings out a Zen 3+ on 5nm as the final hurrah for AM4.
That will give them time to make sure that their first DDR5 based CPU is as good as it can reasonably be, in late 2022.
i think we would more likely see a Zen 3 with the exact same CCD with a 7nm AM5 IOD.I don't see the point of any more releases for AM4 to be honest.
5nm Zen3+ on AM5 seems more likely.
what i'm curious about is if we will see a Zen 3+ but on a AM5+DDR5+PCIe 5.0 platform to get the waters ready before they drop Zen 4.
I think and hope AMD brings out a Zen 3+ on 5nm as the final hurrah for AM4.
I don't see the point of any more releases for AM4 to be honest.
5nm Zen3+ on AM5 seems more likely.
It would give AMD more time to make sure that their first DDR5 platform is in tip top shape, if they need that time, plus I am assuming that there may be valuable lessons they can learn by going with a known quantity like Zen 3 and pumping it out on 5 nm.I don't see the point of any more releases for AM4 to be honest.
5nm Zen3+ on AM5 seems more likely.
Not true. The K6 had higher IPC and higher clocks on integer workloads, which were the primary workloads at the time. It wasn't until the Pentium 2 that Intel took back the performance crown, but they had better marketing so it didn't affect them.Chiplets... I know that it is not the same and had been done before this, but look up Pentium Pro for 1st workstation cost level... I worked on a top end Pro workstation at the time, like 200 mghz... Not bad for a single desktop top notch workstation then and really pretty fast. Sparks and whatever were behind, as well as anything AMD had.
True, but isn't that what we, the tech enthusiasts, really want? The more AMD (or any other company) sells, the more agressive they can be (design costs etc are being paid quicker).Zen 2 and older would become way too depreciated, literally sold for nothing then, Zen 3 too... old tech in a year? They can't push too much on that front: designing chips has a price that must be payed back, same for dices (look how they reused the interconnect one).
Apple makes 1+ chips per year - with arguably strong performance gains per gen.Zen 2 and older would become way too depreciated, literally sold for nothing then, Zen 3 too... old tech in a year? They can't push too much on that front: designing chips has a price that must be payed back, same for dices (look how they reused the interconnect one).
Probably. I think they will want to launch something in 2021, if only to introduce AM5 and DDR5.what i'm curious about is if we will see a Zen 3+ but on a AM5+DDR5+PCIe 5.0 platform to get the waters ready before they drop Zen 4.
Warhol seems to fit thet role, though it's still somewhat unclear what it entails. On top of the new I/O die I also would have thought they'd want to use a 6nm versions of Zen 3 Compute die on at least some higher-end SKUs. (as the masks are compatible it should be a minimal effort) but it looks like it's not the case. Perhaps 6nm isn't ready by that time or is too expensive.Probably. I think they will want to launch something in 2021, if only to introduce AM5 and DDR5.