***OFFICIAL*** Ryzen 5000 / Zen 3 Launch Thread REVIEWS BEGIN PAGE 39

[Nereus77]

I have already explained that I prefer to spend 50$ more for a 8C 16T CPU even if TODAY is 5% slower in games vs the 6C 12T 5600X.

Literally one of the two major titles you want to play... Like 80% difference.


Its your money

 

[AtenRa]

Literally one of the two major titles you want to play... Like 80% difference.
View attachment 33594

Its your money

Civilization is a TURNED BASED game, more than 60fps is irrelevant.

What is the most relevant metric to check in Civilization is the time it takes for the AI to finish its turn, that is why we are looking at the AI Benchmark and not the Graphics benchmark that AT run and you quoted two times already.

 

[Hitman928]

I have already explained that I prefer to spend 50$ more for a 8C 16T CPU even if TODAY is 5% slower in games vs the 6C 12T 5600X.
As I have said im expecting 10700 to mature better vs the 5600X and im expecting that 10700 will get a useful upgrade path (for gaming) when Rocket Lake launch in the end of Q1 2021, something 5600X lacks.

Those are exactly the same reasons most of us were using with Ryzen 3700X vs Core i5 10600K just a few months ago.

Not that I would have recommended it for gaming, but a 3700x over a 10600k recommendation would have been based on the fact that the 3700x would outperform the the 10600k in heavily multi-threaded scenarios because of the additional cores. So, outside of gaming the 3700x would have performed better and if you thought that games would start using 8+ cores in the future, you would think it was the more future proof option.

But you don't get more performance with the 10700 over the 5600x, even in heavily multi-threaded scenarios, so the same argument doesn't apply. You just get the same or less performance for more money.

 

[Hitman928]

Civilization is a TURNED BASED game, more than 60fps is irrelevant.

What is the most relevant metric to check in Civilization is the time it takes for the AI to finish its turn, that is why we are looking at the AI Benchmark and not the Graphics benchmark that AT run and you quoted two times already.

According to GN, the 5600x stock is faster than a 10900k.

 

[AtenRa]

According to GN, the 5600x stock is faster than a 10900k.

View attachment 33598

yeap, 2-3 secs difference. Nobody will notice that in the gameplay.

 

[shady28]

Both processors come with a cooler, but not one that will do for overclocking, especially the 10700. You won't get away with minimal off the shelf cooling when you overclock the 10700 as you have suggested as it will be using over 200W of power when loaded.
air cooling.
....

Why are you posting Whole System power levels as if they are CPU power levels?




The max turbo + BCLK is 238W for the *entire system*, running CineBench. That is about 10W less than the 10900K stock, and you don't need liquid to cool a stock 10900K. As I stated, you need a good *AIR COOLER*.

And at that speed, it will throw down on a 5600X on most multi-threaded apps.

So so far, you've falsely claimed :
- That 10700 is power loocked : False
- That 10700 needs dual loop liquid cooling when power unlocked/bclk'd : False
- Confused full system with CPU power draw
- Said that 10700 only got 4% higher CB score when it gets 13% higher, stock.

I think I am pretty much done with your stupidity.

 

[Hitman928]

yeap, 2-3 secs difference. Nobody will notice that in the gameplay.

Then no one would notice the difference between a 10700 and a 10400 or 3600 either. So. . .

 

[DisEnchantment]

Seems with Cinebench R23, Zen3 is barely faster than Tigerlake@28W. Interesting. Basically on par, In contrast, Zen3 dominated Intel on R20.

 

[AtenRa]

Then no one would notice the difference between a 10700 and a 10400 or 3600 either. So. . .

Yea for this game all those CPUs will do just fine. It will take an older CPU like older 4c Core i5, Ryzen 1200 etc to start to notice the difference in actual game play

 

[Hitman928]

Why are you posting Whole System power levels as if they are CPU power levels?

View attachment 33597


The max turbo + BCLK is 238W for the *entire system*, running CineBench. That is about 10W less than the 10900K stock, and you don't need liquid to cool a stock 10900K. As I stated, you need a good *AIR COOLER*.

Apologies, I forgot TPU uses full system power. The main point stands though. You said you could use minimal off the shelf cooling for an overclocked 10700, this is wrong, now you are saying you need a good air cooler, which is true. You will still have to deal with at least ~40 - 50 W more with an overclocked 10700 than you would with an overclocked 5600x.

And at that speed, it will throw down on a 5600X on most multi-threaded apps.

You have never provided proof of this.

So so far, you've falsely claimed :
- That 10700 is power loocked : False

I said not considering overclocking it is power locked versus a 10700k, this is true. Nice try though.

- That 10700 needs dual loop liquid cooling when power unlocked/bclk'd : False

- Confused full system with CPU power draw

I never said dual loop liquid cooling. You are lying to set up straw men to try and win an argument. I was mistaken about the power consumption which I already admitted as I took the full system power, but the 10700 will still require a better cooler than a 5600x, that is a fact and will end up spending more money for very similar performance at best for the 10700.

- Said that 10700 only got 4% higher CB score when it gets 13% higher, stock.

Where are you even getting this?

I think I am pretty much done with your stupidity.

The only stupidity is creating straw men to try and win an argument.

 

[Kenmitch]

I have already explained that I prefer to spend 50$ more for a 8C 16T CPU even if TODAY is 5% slower in games vs the 6C 12T 5600X.
As I have said im expecting 10700 to mature better vs the 5600X and im expecting that 10700 will get a useful upgrade path (for gaming) when Rocket Lake launch in the end of Q1 2021, something 5600X lacks.

Those are exactly the same reasons most of us were using with Ryzen 3700X vs Core i5 10600K just a few months ago.

I don't see anything wrong with you choosing what you want to buy. Preaching to others while trying to justify YOUR buying decisions isn't what viewers of the thread are here to read. Carrying on about it is silly. If it's best for you buy it and if not don't.

Maybe your just trying to help the end user make a educated decision, but there are other things to consider beyond just the basic fps....

Microsofts DirectStorage has the potential to sour the end users buying decision.

There's no guarantee that PCIe 4.0 will be supported on current MB's. No guarantee it'll be supported on the M.2 slot.

Gigabyte says compatibility with 11th gen Rocket Lake-S CPUs, PCIe 4.0 Support

The good folks at Gigabyte said via AORUS livestream that the recently released Z490 motherboards are compatible with the upcoming 11th generation Rocket Lake-S processors. While this might not be unsurprising for some, its motherboard readiness is. We never expected an official word about it...

thinkcomputers.org

 

[shady28]

In point of fact, you can power unlock many B460 and H470 motherboards.

The limitation is :

DDR4-2933 RAM at most (you can do XMP for lower CL and sub-timings)
Cannot increase BCLK

1st Link shows this being done on a 10900, with these results :

"The stock chip scored 4308 points in Cinebench R20 whereas the PL boosted chip scored 5820 points which is a 35% increase in performance. "

MSI B460 Power Limit Overclock Shows Huge Performance Gains With Intel's 10th Gen CPUs

MSI has showcased the potential of its B460 motherboards with PL overclock, showcasing huge gains with Intel's 10th Gen Comet Lake CPUs.

wccftech.com

Edit: And, with a stock Intel cooler, they were able to get +8% performance gain while keeping the CPU under 80C during PL2 (28sec all core) and under 70C for PL1 (continuous). This is on a 10900.

 

[tamz_msc]

Seems with Cinebench R23, Zen3 is barely faster than Tigerlake@28W. Interesting. Basically on par, In contrast, Zen3 dominated Intel on R20.

View attachment 33599

That means TGL has higher IPC in R23 than Zen 3. Is it using AVX512? The release notes are vague on what exactly the changes are.

 

[Zepp]

is there a way to hide posts that reply to users you have on ignore?

I've lost count how many pages of this thread I've skimmed over to get past all the replies to trolls.

 

[AmericanLocomotive]

Seems with Cinebench R23, Zen3 is barely faster than Tigerlake@28W. Interesting. Basically on par, In contrast, Zen3 dominated Intel on R20.

View attachment 33599

There's something wrong going on. My lame first-batch 3900X that barely wheezes 4.4GHz ST clocks pulled a 1294 with a bunch of other junk running. Just the clock speed difference alone between my chip and a 5950X would make up that, let alone the huge IPC increase.

 

[Hitman928]

There's something wrong going on. My lame first-batch 3900X that barely wheezes 4.4GHz ST clocks pulled a 1294 with a bunch of other junk running. Just the clock speed difference alone between my chip and a 5950X would make up that, let alone the huge IPC increase.

Yeah, that would calculate to a 5% IPC increase for the 5950x compared to your 3900x. Maybe the 5950x wasn't reaching full turbo core frequency in that test run?

 

[Veradun]

I have already explained that I prefer to spend 50$ more for a 8C 16T CPU even if TODAY is 5% slower in games vs the 6C 12T 5600X.
As I have said im expecting 10700 to mature better vs the 5600X and im expecting that 10700 will get a useful upgrade path (for gaming) when Rocket Lake launch in the end of Q1 2021, something 5600X lacks.

Those are exactly the same reasons most of us were using with Ryzen 3700X vs Core i5 10600K just a few months ago.

Then buy an FX-8150. Best $/core ratio ever.

 

[.vodka]

Yeah, that would calculate to a 5% IPC increase for the 5950x compared to your 3900x. Maybe the 5950x wasn't reaching full turbo core frequency in that test run?

Can confirm, just ran this on my 3900X and it scored 1302 ST, 18533 MT (1 pass), ~18100 on the 10 minute run.

Average effective frequency as measured by hwinfo on the best core was ~4450MHz (-0.05v offset, no offset would've been closer to 4500MHz).

There's no way a 5950X with that beastly 5050MHz single core turbo that it can actually sustain under heavy loads only scores 200 points faster than this, +600MHz on top of the +19% IPC increase should just wreck Zen2 on this... and it doesn't.

Something fishy going on here.

 

[DisEnchantment]

Can confirm, just ran this on my 3900X and it scored 1302 ST, 18533 MT (1 pass), ~18100 on the 10 minute run.

Average effective frequency as measured by hwinfo on the best core was ~4450MHz (-0.05v offset, no offset would've been closer to 4500MHz).

There's no way a 5950X with that beastly 5050MHz single core turbo that it can actually sustain under heavy loads only scores 200 points faster than this, +600MHz on top of the +19% IPC increase should just wreck Zen2 on this... and it doesn't.

Something fishy going on here.

I ran again, and the CPU is hovering around 4990 MHz. A bit higher now after I closed other apps. Seems around 1600.

 

[gdansk]

AMD and Apple releasing new CPUs is always good news for benchmark writers. They always seem to break the existing ones

 

[lobz]

Seems with Cinebench R23, Zen3 is barely faster than Tigerlake@28W. Interesting. Basically on par, In contrast, Zen3 dominated Intel on R20.

View attachment 33599

The wattage doesn't count there in the ST test, since one thread does not saturate the 28W power envelope (none other than Dr. Ian Cutress himself tested that in detail a couple of weeks ago). We already knew that Willow Cove has a sizeable IPC uplift over Skylake. Such a shame Intel can't produce it for a desktop environment, so save this argument for next year when Zen 3 mobile comes out.

 

[AtenRa]

OK following numbers taken from the techpowerup Core i7 10700 (non K) review and Ryzen 5600X review.

Intel Core i7-10700 Review - Way to Overclock without the K

In our Intel Core i7-10700 review, we're taking a look at one of Intel's most affordable 8-core/16-thread processors. Its low TDP of 65 W makes it power-efficient, but also limits performance. We unlocked that limit and gained up to 30% real-life performance without ever risking an unstable system.

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X Review

Six Zen 3 cores beating eight Zen 2 Cores? That's exactly what's happening with the Ryzen 5 5600X. AMD's massive IPC gain helped it overcome a two-core deficitm, even in productivity tests. The Ryzen 5 5600X redefines what you really need for a high-end gaming PC.

www.techpowerup.com

Same systems in both reviews for the Intel platform

Processor: All Intel 10th Generation processors
Motherboard: ASUS Z490 Maximus XII Extreme
Intel Z490, BIOS 0508
Memory: 2x 8 GB G.SKILL Flare X DDR4
DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34
DDR4-2933 Test at 16-16-16-36
Graphics: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra
Storage: 1 TB SSD
Cooling: Noctua NH-U14S
Zadak Spark 240 mm AIO
Power Supply: Seasonic SS-860XP
Software: Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
Version 1903 (May 2019 Update)
Drivers: NVIDIA GeForce 430.63 WHQL
AMD Chipset 1.07.07.0725

Processor: All AMD Ryzen 5000
Motherboard: ASRock X570 Taichi
AMD X570, BIOS v3.56 AGESA 1.1.0.0
Memory: 2x 8 GB G.SKILL Flare X DDR4
DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34
Graphics: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra
Storage: Crucial MX500 2 TB SSD
Cooling: Noctua NH-U14S
Zadak Spark 240 mm AIO
Power Supply: Seasonic SS-860XP
Software: Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
Version 20H2 (October 2020 Update)
Drivers: NVIDIA GeForce 430.63 WHQL
AMD Chipset 2.10.13.408

Games at 1080p

AC Odyssey
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 99.7fps
Ryzen 5600X = 95.7fps

Battlefield V
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 171.4fps
Ryzen 5600X = 176.1fps

Civilization VI
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 192.1fps
Ryzen 5600X = 193.0fps

FarCry 5
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 139.1fps
Ryzen 5600X = 139.4fps

Metro Exodus
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 156.1fps
Ryzen 5600X = 149.5fps

Rage II
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 155.5fps
Ryzen 5600X = 156.8fps

Sekiro
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 185.7fps
Ryzen 5600X = 179.7fps

Shadow Of The Tomb Rider
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 192.7ps
Ryzen 5600X = 188.6fps

The Witcher 3
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 182.6fps
Ryzen 5600X = 180.3fps

Wolfenstein II
Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 317.0fps
Ryzen 5600X = 318.6fps

Gaming power consumption
Entire System (Witcher 3)

Core i7 10700 - DDR4 2933 = 388W
Ryzen 5600X = 366W


If you look at 10700 + DDR4 2933 vs 10700K + DDR4 3200 , the gaming difference is less than 5%

 

[coercitiv]

If you look at 10700 + DDR4 2933 vs 10700K + DDR4 3200 , the gaming difference is less than 5%

We've been through a couple of pages on this already, can we get to the part where 10700 wins by a nice enough margin to justify the higher price?

 

[Timorous]

We've been through a couple of pages on this already, can we get to the part where 10700 wins by a nice enough margin to justify the higher price?

Can we get to the part where TPU have reliable numbers?

 

[Hitman928]

@AtenRa TPU's numbers are the anomaly, apparently they've even said that they think they need to redo their 5000 series benchmarks because of how far off they are from everyone else.

Here are the results for 3 other review sites pitting a stock 5600x against a 10700k which would be like an overclocked 10700. The 5600x at stock still comes out on top.