***OFFICIAL 'Sicko' Thread***

[eits]

i'm right about at the end of the movie and i really am enjoying it. it's about how our health care system is jacked up as hell... not the fact that it screws people over who don't have health care but more of how it screws people over who do.

i was pretty shocked about how all these "lesser" countries in the world pwn us when it comes to the standard of care that people get and the responses from the people in those countries about the care they receive.

EDIT: the care given (or not given, actually) to our nation's heroes (9/11 rescuers and soldiers fighting overseas) disgusts me... the fact that they get WORSE care than guantanamo detainees is appalling. i'm not saying the detainees should have worse healthcare because that would just cause more anti-american propaganda amongst the radical islamic world, but it should at LEAST be on the same level.

 

[Martin]

I saw it a few days ago and thought it was alright. There are a few things wrong with it, but his critics will as always call him fat and stupid, as if that somehow has anything to do with what he says.

But its quite simple really - universal care offers better results and costs a lot less. Unfortunately it is ideologically incompatible with the beliefs of a large portion of Americans and no amount of wasted money and human suffering will make them change their minds.

 

[Pepsi90919]

eits, there is already a lengthy thread in P&N about this, but thanks for coming out.

 

[Mo0o]

is this basically teh movie version of Critical Condition and a million other books on how fvcked our health system is

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
is this basically teh movie version of Critical Condition and a million other books on how fvcked our health system is

never read any. any good?

 

[mrrman]

great documentary...love his work and I am glad I am Canadian

 

[opticalmace]

Originally posted by: Martin
I saw it a few days ago and thought it was alright. There are a few things wrong with it, but his critics will as always call him fat and stupid, as if that somehow has anything to do with what he says.

But its quite simple really - universal care offers better results and costs a lot less. Unfortunately it is ideologically incompatible with the beliefs of a large portion of Americans and no amount of wasted money and human suffering will make them change their minds.

what are the few things wrong with it?

 

[destrekor]

i already know there are a few things wrong with our healthcare system, and that a lot of world states have a better system than the USA's.
With that said, I refuse to see this crapfest of a Moore movie. He puts such an anti-US stance on everything he makes, as if he would rather a state without all the benefits of ours. Hell, he basically wants to demolish the Right to Bear Arms. Enough of reason for me to hate him. What he should fight for is better control on crime and criminals, not the tools that they use.
Sure, I know my argument has nothing to do with Sicko, but considering what he did with the movie Bowling for Columbine, and what he did with Fahrenheit 9/11 (never saw it, I admit, as I refuse since I know the premise), I basically will refuse to see Sicko.

 

[iamaelephant]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: eits
i was pretty shocked about how all these "lesser" countries in the world pwn us when it comes to the standard of care that people get and the responses from the people in those countries about the care they receive.</end quote></div>

I'm not trying to be contentious but I think it would help Americans a lot if they stopped thinking about other countries as lesser.

Edit - oh yeah, and I've seen the film. It was very interesting. I live in New Zealand, and our health care system is very similar to that of England. I have recently been through the health care system and I'm very happy about the state of our health care system. Of course it isn't perfect but it's great. I think many Americans need to be more open minded about socialised health care. A lot of people seem to think that the country will fall apart with a socialised health system, but seem oblivious to the fact that every other western country in the world has a socialised health system. At the end of the day I have no stake in what happens to USA's health system but for your sake I hope you at least consider the possibility of socialising it before dismissing the idea off-hand as many Americans seem to do.

Edit 2 - WTF is happening to the quotes on this site?

 

[spidey07]

socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?

 

[Pepsi90919]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?</end quote></div>

not really. i was hospitalized for 4 days last week and everything was timely and professional. health care is one of those things i think should be public.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?</end quote></div>

not really. i was hospitalized for 4 days last week and everything was timely and professional. health care is one of those things i think should be public.

I used to think the same way when I was young. Then I saw how much the gubment was stealing from me and changed my tune real quick.

If you believe in Darwin, then you can see the fundamental flaws in any kind of non resource driven health care.

 

[iamaelephant]

Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?

No complaints here. Socialised medicine is working just fine in every western country except USA.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?

I couldn't agree more.

We also need to abolish the public school system.

Socialism is bad, m'kay?

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: iamaelephant
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?</end quote></div>

No complaints here. Socialised medicine is working just fine in every western country except USA.

If it's "working fine" then why do people fly in from other countries to get health care in the states?

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?</end quote></div>

I couldn't agree more.

We also need to abolish the public school system.

Socialism is bad, m'kay?

Private schools offer better education, just like privatized medicine offers better health care.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: spidey07
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?</end quote></div>

not really. i was hospitalized for 4 days last week and everything was timely and professional. health care is one of those things i think should be public.</end quote></div>

I used to think the same way when I was young. Then I saw how much the gubment was stealing from me and changed my tune real quick.

If you believe in Darwin, then you can see the fundamental flaws in any kind of non resource driven health care.

Good thing your view is based on a logical fallacy, otherwise we'd all have to be eugenists, social darwinists etc.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: opticalmace
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Martin
I saw it a few days ago and thought it was alright. There are a few things wrong with it, but his critics will as always call him fat and stupid, as if that somehow has anything to do with what he says.

But its quite simple really - universal care offers better results and costs a lot less. Unfortunately it is ideologically incompatible with the beliefs of a large portion of Americans and no amount of wasted money and human suffering will make them change their minds.</end quote></div>

what are the few things wrong with it?

For example, they visit a hospital in Havana and get excellent care. Well, that particular hospital is more upscale than regular Cuban hospitals and you'd likely need to be well connected (ie party member) to get in there. Nevertheless, the fact remains that for the money spent, Cuba does have good system with excellent organization and that Cubans are healthy and have long lifespans.

Poeple can complain that he prefers antics and human stories to statistics etc, but it doesn't matter. Whichever way you look at it, the conclusion is the same.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: daveymark
Private schools offer better education, just like privatized medicine offers better health care.

Religious based education is, by its very definition, inferior to secular education.

Isn't that why the Middle East is so screwed up? Everyone takes the religion too literally and too seriously plus they mix it in with their education and government?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: daveymark
Private schools offer better education, just like privatized medicine offers better health care.

Religious based education is, by its very definition, inferior to secular education.

Isn't that why the Middle East is so screwed up? Everyone takes the religion too literally and too seriously plus they mix it in with their education and government?

Who said anything about religion-based education?

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?

not really. i was hospitalized for 4 days last week and everything was timely and professional. health care is one of those things i think should be public.

I used to think the same way when I was young. Then I saw how much the gubment was stealing from me and changed my tune real quick.

If you believe in Darwin, then you can see the fundamental flaws in any kind of non resource driven health care.

Hehe, I used to think like you, and then I met my wife, who was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. The incredible hassles we've had between employers and insurances to ensure that she NEVER lapses for fear of being lumped in to the pre-existing category sucked. Not to mention the unbelievable medical maintenance costs, even with insurance. That all changed my tune.

We get stuck in the middle because the fear of having to wait months for MRIs, CTs, EEGs, etc, etc, is no good (a la what I hear about the Canadian system all the time). But the fear of losing insurance is even worse. It shouldn't be like that.

It sucks because I'd like to see "satisfaction studies" comparing insurance based systems and social systems using respondents, who've experienced both, from the middle and lower middle classes. When medical costs eat up 10-15% of your total take home, it feels pretty murderous.

[Rant]
I never understood what difference it makes if there's a damn lapse in the insurance, it doesn't change the fact that she's sick! Fvcking a$$hole insurance companies.
[/Rant]

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: daveymark
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: iamaelephant
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: spidey07
socialism is bad...m'kay?

Look at other countries to see how well it is working out. You don't get something for nothing, this is a universal rule. We have access to some of the best healthcare in the world here in America - but like anything else that is better, you have to pay for it.

It drives me nuts when people complain about our healthcare. It goes against everything we are founded on, work hard, live free and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Socialism is bad...m'kay?</end quote></div>

No complaints here. Socialised medicine is working just fine in every western country except USA.</end quote></div>

If it's "working fine" then why do people fly in from other countries to get health care in the states?

People come here to go to certain hospitals, not any hospital. When I have a major issue, I go to Mass General. Why? Because most of the hospitals on the way aren't anything special and, quite honestly, some of them really suck.

As for the post stating how well things are going in all countries with socialized medicine, well, that's not true either. There have been quite a few studies done, each trying to figure out a decent methodoligy. While each may vary, one thing is for sure -- no one country is overwhelmingly in the lead. There are, however, some countries that do continually rate poorly among all western countries. The UK, for example, frequently does poorly against all western countries (against us or heavily socialized countries like France).

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark
Private schools offer better education, just like privatized medicine offers better health care.</end quote></div>

Religious based education is, by its very definition, inferior to secular education.

Isn't that why the Middle East is so screwed up? Everyone takes the religion too literally and too seriously plus they mix it in with their education and government?</end quote></div>Who said anything about religion-based education?

Text

76% of all private schools are religiously based.

 

[daveymark]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Jeff7
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark
Private schools offer better education, just like privatized medicine offers better health care.</end quote></div>

Religious based education is, by its very definition, inferior to secular education.

Isn't that why the Middle East is so screwed up? Everyone takes the religion too literally and too seriously plus they mix it in with their education and government?</end quote></div>Who said anything about religion-based education?</end quote></div>

Text

76% of all private schools are religiously based.</end quote></div>

Just curious, how is the math taught at a private school "inferior" to math taught at a public school?

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: daveymark

Just curious, how is the math taught at a private school "inferior" to math taught at a public school?

please provide syllabii to back up your argument.

The education as a whole was what I was referring to.

Math may not be inferior since there really isn't any religious dogma that contradicts with math.

Biology and history, for example, would be inferior subjects.