***OFFICIAL 'Sicko' Thread***

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TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
Bleh, knowing how many lies were in "Bowling for Columbine" I'd hardly believe what that man has to say about anything.

BTW, he is a fat slob too. I wont call him an idiot, but I wouldn't call his movies documentaries.
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,576
1
0
Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark

Just curious, how is the math taught at a private school "inferior" to math taught at a public school?

please provide syllabii to back up your argument.</end quote></div>

The education as a whole was what I was referring to.

Math may not be inferior since there really isn't any religious dogma that contradicts with math.

Biology and history, for example, would be inferior subjects.

I guarantee you a frog dissection is performed the same way at both private and public schools, as well as any recount of the American Civil War.

Take any child out a private school, and pit that child against any child from a public school based on total knowledge earned, the odds are that the privately schooled child will score better on any comprehensive test (SAT/ACT, etc).

That said, there are nonreligious private schools as well, and the same holds true.

 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Originally posted by: daveymark
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark

Just curious, how is the math taught at a private school "inferior" to math taught at a public school?

please provide syllabii to back up your argument.</end quote></div>

The education as a whole was what I was referring to.

Math may not be inferior since there really isn't any religious dogma that contradicts with math.

Biology and history, for example, would be inferior subjects.</end quote></div>

I guarantee you a frog dissection is performed the same way at both private and public schools, as well as any recount of the American Civil War.

Take any child out a private school, and pit that child against any child from a public school based on total knowledge earned, the odds are that the privately schooled child will score better on any comprehensive test (SAT/ACT, etc).

That said, there are nonreligious private schools as well, and the same holds true.

Despite lacking or skipping some key topics in areas due to a religious preference, private schools usually more than make up for their bias with a more concentrated and energized education. The manner in which the information is taught, usually only doable due to the small amounts of students in a private school, is much more effective than the public counterpart.

Before anyone makes assumptions, no I do not go and have not gone to a private school.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,206
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: TallBill
Bleh, knowing how many lies were in "Bowling for Columbine" I'd hardly believe what that man has to say about anything.

BTW, he is a fat slob too. I wont call him an idiot, but I wouldn't call his movies documentaries.

somehow obesity discredits people...
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
Originally posted by: daveymark
I guarantee you a frog dissection is performed the same way at both private and public schools, as well as any recount of the American Civil War.

Take any child out a private school, and pit that child against any child from a public school based on total knowledge earned, the odds are that the privately schooled child will score better on any comprehensive test (SAT/ACT, etc).

That said, there are nonreligious private schools as well, and the same holds true.

I noticed you chose subjects or particular course material that does not contradict religious teaching.

Who would have the superior education in the following subjects:

1. Speciation
2. Cosmology
3. Geology
4. Ontology
5. Philosophy
6. Evolutionary Biology
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,576
1
0
Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark
I guarantee you a frog dissection is performed the same way at both private and public schools, as well as any recount of the American Civil War.

Take any child out a private school, and pit that child against any child from a public school based on total knowledge earned, the odds are that the privately schooled child will score better on any comprehensive test (SAT/ACT, etc).

That said, there are nonreligious private schools as well, and the same holds true.

</end quote></div>

I noticed you chose subjects or particular course material that does not contradict religious teaching.

Who would have the superior education in the following subjects:

1. Speciation
2. Cosmology
3. Geology
4. Ontology
5. Philosophy
6. Evolutionary Biology

The SAT contains none or very small amounts of that subject matter. Same for the ACT.

That said, the child in the nonreligious private school would have the more superior education in those subjects.

A child in either a religious or nonreligious private school will score better on a comprehensive exam than their public school counterpart.

Unfortunately, this isn't a religious question. it's a question of whether paying for school nets a better education than public school. The answer is a resounding yes. You might not like the curriculum they teach at a religious private school, but their students will still outperform the publicly schooled counterparts.

That is what is great about the idea of private school/capitalism. If you think the education is inferior at a religious private school - guess what? you don't have to send your kids there! Feel free to send them to a nonreligious private school, and they'll STILL get a better education than the public school.





 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
Originally posted by: eits

somehow obesity discredits people...

Where did I say that his obseity discredits him? I'm just pointing out a fact, he is huge. Anyways there are several webpages full of links and sources cited to discredit him. Heaven forbid that actual facts matter
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
Originally posted by: daveymark
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark
I guarantee you a frog dissection is performed the same way at both private and public schools, as well as any recount of the American Civil War.

Take any child out a private school, and pit that child against any child from a public school based on total knowledge earned, the odds are that the privately schooled child will score better on any comprehensive test (SAT/ACT, etc).

That said, there are nonreligious private schools as well, and the same holds true.

</end quote></div>

I noticed you chose subjects or particular course material that does not contradict religious teaching.

Who would have the superior education in the following subjects:

1. Speciation
2. Cosmology
3. Geology
4. Ontology
5. Philosophy
6. Evolutionary Biology
</end quote></div>

The SAT contains none or very small amounts of that subject matter. Same for the ACT.

That said, the child in the nonreligious private school would have the more superior education in those subjects.

A child in either a religious or nonreligious private school will score better on a comprehensive exam than their public school counterpart.

Unfortunately, this isn't a religious question. it's a question of whether paying for school nets a better education than public school. The answer is a resounding yes. You might not like the curriculum they teach at a religious private school, but their students will still outperform the publicly schooled counterparts.

That is what is great about the idea of private school/capitalism. If you think the education is inferior at a religious private school - guess what? you don't have to send your kids there! Feel free to send them to a nonreligious private school, and they'll STILL get a better education than the public school.

Wasn't there a study not too long ago that said that there is in fact very little difference, on average, between public and private education?

I think the argument of public vs private school isn't really any different than the private vs socialized medicine. It varies immensely depending on location.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,673
580
126
Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark

Just curious, how is the math taught at a private school "inferior" to math taught at a public school?

please provide syllabii to back up your argument.</end quote></div>

The education as a whole was what I was referring to.

Math may not be inferior since there really isn't any religious dogma that contradicts with math.

Biology and history, for example, would be inferior subjects.

Really? So I guess the fact that I scored at the top of my class in both Biology and History in a secular college in the entrance test is a fallacy?

<-- Homeschooled off of a Christian private school program since the 4th grade and in a Christian private school before that.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,247
207
106
Originally posted by: destrekor
i already know there are a few things wrong with our healthcare system, and that a lot of world states have a better system than the USA's.
With that said, I refuse to see this crapfest of a Moore movie. He puts such an anti-US stance on everything he makes, as if he would rather a state without all the benefits of ours. Hell, he basically wants to demolish the Right to Bear Arms. Enough of reason for me to hate him. What he should fight for is better control on crime and criminals, not the tools that they use.
Sure, I know my argument has nothing to do with Sicko, but considering what he did with the movie Bowling for Columbine, and what he did with Fahrenheit 9/11 (never saw it, I admit, as I refuse since I know the premise), I basically will refuse to see Sicko.

 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark

Just curious, how is the math taught at a private school "inferior" to math taught at a public school?

please provide syllabii to back up your argument.</end quote></div>

The education as a whole was what I was referring to.

Math may not be inferior since there really isn't any religious dogma that contradicts with math.

Biology and history, for example, would be inferior subjects.</end quote></div>

Really? So I guess the fact that I scored at the top of my class in both Biology and History in a secular college in the entrance test is a fallacy?

<-- Homeschooled off of a Christian private school program since the 4th grade and in a Christian private school before that.

Alpha Omega software, by chance?
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,673
580
126
Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: daveymark

Just curious, how is the math taught at a private school "inferior" to math taught at a public school?

please provide syllabii to back up your argument.</end quote></div>

The education as a whole was what I was referring to.

Math may not be inferior since there really isn't any religious dogma that contradicts with math.

Biology and history, for example, would be inferior subjects.</end quote></div>

Really? So I guess the fact that I scored at the top of my class in both Biology and History in a secular college in the entrance test is a fallacy?

<-- Homeschooled off of a Christian private school program since the 4th grade and in a Christian private school before that.</end quote></div>

Alpha Omega software, by chance?

Wha?? Abeka Christian Academy..
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Wha?? Abeka Christian Academy..

I worked for Alpha Omega briefly and got a chance to use their software. I can't speak for the software you used, but Alpha Omega's contained not only a Christian slant, as one would expect, but also a few outright lies concerning other religions and half truths concerning evolutionary biology and paleontology.

This is why I feel religion and education should not mix.

Religious based education begins with an agenda: to teach kids on a variety of subjects with a Christian bias. I believe education should have only one agenda: to teach kids on a variety of subjects with no bias, only the truth.

To include a religious bias taints the educational process.

I have no doubt kids who attend private school vs. public have better grades or score higher on the SAT or ACT. Naturally, they get much more attention than their public school counterparts. Unfortunately, the religious bias interjected into their curriculum is detrimental to the learning process.

Do you think your Christian eduction would be superior or inferior to a Muslim based education?
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,713
12
56
Originally posted by: eits
i'm right about at the end of the movie and i really am enjoying it. it's about how our health care system is jacked up as hell... not the fact that it screws people over who don't have health care but more of how it screws people over who do.

i was pretty shocked about how all these "lesser" countries in the world pwn us when it comes to the standard of care that people get and the responses from the people in those countries about the care they receive.

EDIT: the care given (or not given, actually) to our nation's heroes (9/11 rescuers and soldiers fighting overseas) disgusts me... the fact that they get WORSE care than guantanamo detainees is appalling. i'm not saying the detainees should have worse healthcare because that would just cause more anti-american propaganda amongst the radical islamic world, but it should at LEAST be on the same level.
sounds like you bought it.

Michael Moore's latest scam
June 24, 2007 - 9:07am.

Exploiting other people's misery for profit

By STAR PARKER

What's the difference between art and propaganda? The artist wants to communicate and share and the propagandist wants to manipulate.

Michael Moore is a talented filmmaker, a great marketer, and a superb propagandist. Those skills have now been invested in his latest film venture about health care, "Sicko."

Part of the shtick, of course, is the portrayal that he's a man on a mission. A social crusader -- a kind of Ralph Nader whose medium is film.

"I mean, it is really disgusting," he says, "when a guy in a ball cap with a high school education is the one asking the tough questions....Criticize me? No. Somebody, really should show up and say, 'Thanks.'"

But a lot of people are showing up and saying "thanks." It's why Moore, from what appears to have been pretty humble working class beginnings in Flint, Mich., is now a multi-millionaire and far from being a simple guy in a ball cap. Folks are saying thanks by plunking down fistfuls of dollars to see his films and buy and rent his videos.

Moore's last film, "Fahrenheit 9/11," a broadside attack on the Bush Administration and the war on terror, grossed $220 million worldwide and cost $6 million to produce.

Is he a social commentator? A man who lives to reform?

No, this is an entrepreneur from the far political left with a business model that is serving him very well. The usual left wing Hollywood con artist, who talks socialism and gets rich off capitalism.

Moore's films are to social commentary what pornography is to human relations.

Find vulnerabilities and hot buttons, stimulate, provoke, exploit and sell tickets.

I've had a chance to see "Sicko" because I was on a TV panel that hosted Moore as part of his promotion campaign.

The film, which cost $9 million to produce, and likely will generate nine figure revenues, is out of the usual mold.

It pitches socialized medicine by cherry picking stories that allegedly testify to the success of the government-run systems in Great Britain, France, Canada, and even Cuba, and then finds horror stories to show how bad things are in the U.S.

I shot an e-mail to a friend, an American, now a long time resident of Great Britain, and asked about their National Health Service. Here's the response:

"If you end up with an exotic disease that requires a lot of care, you're screwed. For example, the waiting list for any kind of major surgery is long and for things like knee replacements you can wait for three years. Alzheimer's drugs aren't available on the National Health Service because they're too expensive. More and more people are paying for private health insurance cover, and more and more companies are making it part of the perks package. So, Britain will end up with a two-tier system before too long where the "rich" get good private cover and the poor or uninsured have no alternative to the NHS."

Moore and his rich left wing Hollywood buddies won't have to worry about the inevitable shortages and distortions of socialized medicine. They'll simply be living in their own private care universe.

Cuba? Call any Cuban expatriate here, and I've talked to a few, and they'll tell you that the shoddy local care is never what a foreign visitor would see. What we do know is that Cuba has the highest abortion rates, highest suicide rates, and lowest fertility rates in our hemisphere. And we also know that any Cuban that tries to exercise free speech, like Michael Moore luxuriates in here, would soon become a non-person.

We do need health care reform in the United States. But problems get solved through analysis and integrity and not with sensationalism and exploitation.

We already have massive government involvement in our health care markets and there is good reason to believe that this is at least part of the problem. A third party payer system subsidized by the tax code and a patch work of state regulated programs and, hence, no national market.

Government run Medicare and Medicaid are in fiscal crisis and rote with distortions, waste, fraud, and abuse

Michael Moore thinks health care should be free. Why doesn't he distribute this important work explaining why for free? After all, he's said "...I made this film because I want the world to change."

When word got out the other day that a pirated edition made its way onto the Internet, his friend and distributor, movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, went into high alert taking online countermeasures to prevent distribution.

Moore himself, ever cool, said, "The more people who see it the better, so I am happy this is happening."

So give it away for free, Michael. You'll be ecstatic.</end quote></div>
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/2768
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,673
580
126
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: child of wonder
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Wha?? Abeka Christian Academy..</end quote></div>

I worked for Alpha Omega briefly and got a chance to use their software. I can't speak for the software you used, but Alpha Omega's contained not only a Christian slant, as one would expect, but also a few outright lies concerning other religions and half truths concerning evolutionary biology and paleontology.

This is why I feel religion and education should not mix.

Religious based education begins with an agenda: to teach kids on a variety of subjects with a Christian bias. I believe education should have only one agenda: to teach kids on a variety of subjects with no bias, only the truth.

To include a religious bias taints the educational process.

I have no doubt kids who attend private school vs. public have better grades or score higher on the SAT or ACT. Naturally, they get much more attention than their public school counterparts. Unfortunately, the religious bias interjected into their curriculum is detrimental to the learning process.

Do you think your Christian eduction would be superior or inferior to a Muslim based education?
</end quote></div>

What got shoved up your child of wonderment?

Where did I ever say my Christian education would be superior to anything? You were the one spouting "inferior education"

And as my (just so happened to be my Bible Doctrines) teacher said, everything comes with an agenda. You'd be a fool to believe it wasn't.

My books were written with the agenda to relate towards God, this forum was made with the agenda of discussing technical knowledge and holding discussions, this monitor I'm using was made with the agenda of Viewsonic making as much profit as possible from my purchase, and public education has the agenda of pressing its secular education as truth. (Which, as much as it just pains your hairy little anus to squirt out, is only a theory at this point ^_^, no matter how emotionally distressed it makes you).

All is an agenda. Are you really so foolish as to believe something doesn't have an agenda?

Though your name belies irony, I could have sworn you were an adult. Am I mistaken?
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

What got shoved up your child of wonderment?

Where did I ever say my Christian education would be superior to anything? You were the one spouting "inferior education"

And as my (just so happened to be my Bible Doctrines) teacher said, everything comes with an agenda. You'd be a fool to believe it wasn't.

My books were written with the agenda to relate towards God, this forum was made with the agenda of discussing technical knowledge and holding discussions, this monitor I'm using was made with the agenda of Viewsonic making as much profit as possible from my purchase, and public education has the agenda of pressing its secular education as truth. (Which, as much as it just pains your hairy little anus to squirt out, is only a theory at this point ^_^, no matter how emotionally distressed it makes you).

All is an agenda. Are you really so foolish as to believe something doesn't have an agenda?

Though your name belies irony, I could have sworn you were an adult. Am I mistaken?

You're very apt at twisting my words. My question was simple. I'll extrapolate it.

As (I'm assuming) a devout Christian, do you feel an individual who receives an education from a Christian private school receives a better education than someone who participates in a private school of a different religion, such as Islam, Buddhism, etc.? I'm sure as part of your curriculum you learned about some aspects of Christian history per the Bible such as the Great Flood or the Creation story. Since non-Christian schools would not teach these Biblical historical perspectives, do you feel you would be better educated from a Christian private school or a non-Christian one?

Of course everything comes with an agenda. Again, you twisted what I said.

"I believe education should have only one agenda: to teach kids on a variety of subjects with no bias, only the truth."

Or is that not allowed to be an agenda? Naturally, some individuals within the public school system might have their own agenda, but the agenda of the institution itself should be that which I aforementioned.

I'm also assuming you were talking about Evolutionary Theory in your "anus" statement. This alone shows your complete lack of understanding and ignorance in basic scientific fundamentals and allows the religious bias to shine through. Hence, you have proven my original point.

If you question my adulthood, I have only this to offer:

Would a truly free thinking, logical adult believe in fairy tales? Or do you truly believe things like God flooding the entire Earth and a boat carrying two of each species repopulated the entire planet?
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Even though I can't stand Michael Moore and am pretty sure that at least 95% of the things he says is complete bullshit, I didn't think Sicko was half bad. However, like most of his films, he relies on emotional appeal more than rational thinking to present one side of the issue in order to sway people's opinions. Health insurance companies should be held accountable, especially when they deny care/drugs to those that they insure for petty reasons. However, why should health insurance companies be forced to insure anyone? If you are overweight or have a history of medical problems you shouldn't expect to get health insurance, especially at a low rate.
 

aries7

Junior Member
Jun 20, 2007
8
0
0
Originally posted by: destrekor
i already know there are a few things wrong with our healthcare system, and that a lot of world states have a better system than the USA's.
With that said, I refuse to see this crapfest of a Moore movie. He puts such an anti-US stance on everything he makes, as if he would rather a state without all the benefits of ours. Hell, he basically wants to demolish the Right to Bear Arms. Enough of reason for me to hate him. What he should fight for is better control on crime and criminals, not the tools that they use.
Sure, I know my argument has nothing to do with Sicko, but considering what he did with the movie Bowling for Columbine, and what he did with Fahrenheit 9/11 (never saw it, I admit, as I refuse since I know the premise), I basically will refuse to see Sicko.

Remember, that it's just Michael Moore's viewpoint. However, the fact that you cannot even watch it suggests that you are yourself already "brainwashed" by Pro-U.S. propaganda.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
Originally posted by: aries7
Remember, that it's just Michael Moore's viewpoint. However, the fact that you cannot even watch it suggests that you are yourself already "brainwashed" by Pro-U.S. propaganda.

I call it taste. Not brainwashing. After watching 4 other terrible films of his that were proven to be slanted and emotional, I won't waste my time with another one.

If you hated a movie director's terrible work, would you see every film he/she came out with?
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,730
16
81
He makes some good points. But these are not new points. The issues with the US healthcare system are well known. He completely glosses over the problems with socialized medicine, he makes it seem like people don't like it just because of the word 'socialized'. That's not very honest. He makes it seem like every Canadian loves their healthcare system just like his Canadian relatives do, and that's just not the case.
 

grohl

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2004
2,849
0
76
Any else think that Moore needs to lose about a hundred pounds?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Originally posted by: grohl
Any else think that Moore needs to lose about a hundred pounds?

Didn't see this one coming from a mile away :roll:
Well, at least we got it out of the way :thumbsup:
 
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