** Official Star Craft 2 Multiplayer Thread **

[Pia]

I think a slight void ray nerf was called for, but what they are planning is too much. It'd be okay if they slightly lowered the ray's mineral cost and removed some shield, maybe.

Since when was medivac speed a problem? Bad change, leads to a less dynamic game.

The main problem of thor cannons is they overlap way too much with the normal attack of the thor. They should have changed the effect somehow, not just made the thor immune to feedback and EMP.

Same thing about corruptors. Corruption ability is weak and boring. Actually, the whole unit is boring and has always been. Protecting them against feedback and EMP makes them slightly better but not any more fun.

 

[Dumac]

Since when was medivac speed a problem? Bad change, leads to a less dynamic game.

Some players were complaining about how effective medivac stimmed-marauder drops were. There is some quote about how it takes less than 100 APM to do it, but over 500 APM to effectively stop it

 

[natty1]

looking for a guest pass

 

[Fenixgoon]

anyone up for a few games tonight? send me a PM or catch me on skype/aim (same handle)


edit: damn, just lost a tvt cause i didn't build enough tanks. o/w HAD the guy though

 

[xCxStylex]

Personally, I don't find the speed nurf to be that major for a lower skill, non pro player like myself. One thing that is actually good is that your medivac stays closer to your army when moving out instead of moving too fast ahead of everything else, requiring attention to be paid to it.

The major nerf was for pro and top level terran players with insane micro in picking up and dropping off units, like say picking up a thor, moving a little, dropping it off, letting the thor fire, picking it up, moving it further away, rinse repeat ect... or picking up other slow attacking units like hellions, dropping off, letting them attack once.... in situations like this, the medivca speed was a lot faster than most ground units

Since when was medivac speed a problem? Bad change, leads to a less dynamic game.

Some players were complaining about how effective medivac stimmed-marauder drops were. There is some quote about how it takes less than 100 APM to do it, but over 500 APM to effectively stop it

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

does anyone play with anand?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3858/the-worlds-first-3tb-hdd-seagate-goflex-desk-3tb-review

My OS, applications, page file, documents and even frequently played games (ahem, Starcraft 2) all end up on my SSD

 

[Sureshot324]

I think a slight void ray nerf was called for, but what they are planning is too much. It'd be okay if they slightly lowered the ray's mineral cost and removed some shield, maybe.

Since when was medivac speed a problem? Bad change, leads to a less dynamic game.

The main problem of thor cannons is they overlap way too much with the normal attack of the thor. They should have changed the effect somehow, not just made the thor immune to feedback and EMP.

Same thing about corruptors. Corruption ability is weak and boring. Actually, the whole unit is boring and has always been. Protecting them against feedback and EMP makes them slightly better but not any more fun.

Before the patch void rays were pretty much useless in open combat, but if a handful of void rays reach your base while your army just happens to be out of position, that's gg right there. They were kind of an all or nothing unit and IMO that didn't make for good gameplay.

Now that their uncharged damage got buffed +1 + another 4 vs armored, you can actually use them as normal combat units, yet they can't end the game just because of one mistake by your opponent. Good change IMO.

Medevac nerf had to be done too. Before Terrans could do a drop in your base way too fast and at way too low risk, since they can move their army back to their base so quickly too.

 

[JTsyo]

As terran, how many production buildings do you need with 2 bases going? I usually start with 3 barracks (2TL/1R), 1 factory and 2 starports. It's fine for building an army but seems slow for rebuilding. Think my biggest issue is building enough SCVs, I keep falling behind in the marco as the game progresses.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

As terran, how many production buildings do you need with 2 bases going? I usually start with 3 barracks (2TL/1R), 1 factory and 2 starports. It's fine for building an army but seems slow for rebuilding. Think my biggest issue is building enough SCVs, I keep falling behind in the marco as the game progresses.

my personal rule of thumb is 3 production buildings with add-ons per base, so 6.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

my turn. do you guys get shields for marines? if so, when do you get it?
early game? mid game? before/after stim?

i've been getting it early game, right after stim. not sure if it's really doing anything for my game, or if the 100/100 could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[DrunkenSano]

If I do go for Marine-Marauder Ball, I try to go Stim --> Concussive Shells --> Shields.

 

[Aikouka]

If I do go for Marine-Marauder Ball, I try to go Stim --> Concussive Shells --> Shields.

I agree with that order, but if you have two tech labs, you might be able to grab some simultaneously given enough spare resources. I'm a fan of grabbing stim early enough since it takes a long time to research (100 or 120 seconds... I can't remember), and you want to have it up for your earlier pushes.

If your army is much more Marine heavy, you may want to consider shields over conc shells.

 

[JTsyo]

I get shields first and only get stim after I'm putting up the starport. Though I don't do well so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[eLiu]

Here's what I do...
Production buildings: on one base, you can afford 3 rax (2 lab + 1 reactor) almost constantly producing + constantly producing scvs + getting some upgrades. (Expansion fits in too; it is faster/slower depending on when you're willing to cut other stuff to make it happen). On one base, your mining rate is somewhere around 950 minerals/minute, if you're getting those MULEs. The gas gather rate is about 4:1 (discounting the mule), so say 200 gas/minute. (Obviously I'm rounding here but it's good enough for the general idea). In m/g/secs, marines are 50/0/25 and marauders are 100/25/30; so w/3 rax at "steady state" this gives about: 600/100 (4 marines, 4 marauders) + 150 (3 scvs) + 200 (2 depot for the 15 supply added). (I say 'steady state' b/c I balance income/spending manually during the phase where I'm building structures still.) You're already building up gas, so 1) only use 1 geyser or 2) cut a unit or scv here or there and build up minerals & get upgrades and/or tech up.

Usually when I expand, I throw up another rax or two, a factory (tech lab), and a starport (i usually reactor this b/c my macro slips in battle). I like to have a little too much production capacity on 2 bases b/c I can get stuff going faster when I inevitably let my macro slip :/ And on 3 bases, if my army starts to get large, I'll throw down a bunch of production structures so that if I take losses, I can replace them quickly. At some point if you near the point where you can't spend money b/c you're close to the supply cap, it's very effective to build a lot of production buildings to help recover losses.

So w/the other structures on 1 base, you could imagine doing... 2 rax marine/marauder + 1 starport medivacs. That might run you something like 500/150 (units) + 150 (scv) + 200 (depot), leaving extra room for upgrades or expansions... or opening the possibility of adding in some hellion production or more rax units. Or maybe double hellion + medivacs + some marines to fill gaps. Or 2 rax + tanks.

So yeah I think '3 production structs per base' is a good rule of thumb. But you should balance it based on the unit composition you want, not just "oh i can only have 3 production structs."

rax tech lab upgrades: I'm 99% sure it's best to get stim first (well, unless you are forgetful and never use the stim, lol); source: day9. Marines/marauders are SO much more effective w/stim, especially in smallish numbers. Throw in a little bit of stop micro & you have something awesome there. Whether I get concussive or shields next depends on what the opponent is doing. (I usually move out w/stim so I'll see what's up by then.) Engineering & +1 attack is another possibility for the next upgrade choice, though I rarely get it that early (not sure if this is good or bad).

edit: if you're using marines & shields isn't your 2nd upgrade, then it should definitely be your 3rd upgrade. It's really useful... makes all the marines last like 30% longer! It's critical vs things that rape marines like colossi, siege tanks, banelings. It also synergizes really well with medivacs, since the longer the marine stays alive, the better the chance of getting some healing love.

 

[coreyb]

bump. starting to love this game and want some people to play with!

id = xrebelx

 

[PuppettMaster001]

Please add me to the list Gino.409

I am not good at all, but I am reading and watching all kinds of tutorials and need some practice to at least be a little competitive with my friends.

 

[PUN]

I have about 250 games in and played random matches so far.
2v2 diamond
3v3 diamond
4v4 platinum (lost the last 5 games due to my router issues, two games weren't even launched)

I am a protoss player. stalker with blink and obs. VR harrass, z rush, and Canon rush are my main tactics.
I also Canon rush with proxy gates.
Pm me if looking to play. Thx

 

[Dumac]

I have about 250 games in and played random matches so far.
2v2 diamond
3v3 diamond
4v4 platinum (lost the last 5 games due to my router issues, two games weren't even launched)

I am a protoss player. stalker with blink and obs. VR harrass, z rush, and Canon rush are my main tactics.
I also Canon rush with proxy gates.
Pm me if looking to play. Thx

Dear god

 

[dust]

Here's what I do...
Production buildings: on one base, you can afford 3 rax (2 lab + 1 reactor) almost constantly producing + constantly producing scvs + getting some upgrades. (Expansion fits in too; it is faster/slower depending on when you're willing to cut other stuff to make it happen). On one base, your mining rate is somewhere around 950 minerals/minute, if you're getting those MULEs. The gas gather rate is about 4:1 (discounting the mule), so say 200 gas/minute. (Obviously I'm rounding here but it's good enough for the general idea). In m/g/secs, marines are 50/0/25 and marauders are 100/25/30; so w/3 rax at "steady state" this gives about: 600/100 (4 marines, 4 marauders) + 150 (3 scvs) + 200 (2 depot for the 15 supply added). (I say 'steady state' b/c I balance income/spending manually during the phase where I'm building structures still.) You're already building up gas, so 1) only use 1 geyser or 2) cut a unit or scv here or there and build up minerals & get upgrades and/or tech up.

Usually when I expand, I throw up another rax or two, a factory (tech lab), and a starport (i usually reactor this b/c my macro slips in battle). I like to have a little too much production capacity on 2 bases b/c I can get stuff going faster when I inevitably let my macro slip :/ And on 3 bases, if my army starts to get large, I'll throw down a bunch of production structures so that if I take losses, I can replace them quickly. At some point if you near the point where you can't spend money b/c you're close to the supply cap, it's very effective to build a lot of production buildings to help recover losses.

So w/the other structures on 1 base, you could imagine doing... 2 rax marine/marauder + 1 starport medivacs. That might run you something like 500/150 (units) + 150 (scv) + 200 (depot), leaving extra room for upgrades or expansions... or opening the possibility of adding in some hellion production or more rax units. Or maybe double hellion + medivacs + some marines to fill gaps. Or 2 rax + tanks.

So yeah I think '3 production structs per base' is a good rule of thumb. But you should balance it based on the unit composition you want, not just "oh i can only have 3 production structs."

rax tech lab upgrades: I'm 99% sure it's best to get stim first (well, unless you are forgetful and never use the stim, lol); source: day9. Marines/marauders are SO much more effective w/stim, especially in smallish numbers. Throw in a little bit of stop micro & you have something awesome there. Whether I get concussive or shields next depends on what the opponent is doing. (I usually move out w/stim so I'll see what's up by then.) Engineering & +1 attack is another possibility for the next upgrade choice, though I rarely get it that early (not sure if this is good or bad).

edit: if you're using marines & shields isn't your 2nd upgrade, then it should definitely be your 3rd upgrade. It's really useful... makes all the marines last like 30% longer! It's critical vs things that rape marines like colossi, siege tanks, banelings. It also synergizes really well with medivacs, since the longer the marine stays alive, the better the chance of getting some healing love.

I didn't do the exact math, but I'm having nearly constant production of MM's from 4 rax with labs from a single base with 30 scv's working. I go concussive-stim -shields with the first one before getting out the first marauder even and the other two after 8 or so minutes in the game. One scv is constantly building depots(up to say 110 supply or so, after that you can use the orbital command to add supply if required, but it happens that your army gets thinned during assault) and from time to time a second one is required, but you have to use mules asap.

I get 2 other rax while expanding(I'm only getting the mineral line mining) and another 2 when the second base is up and running at full capacity. Yet I'm not building any factory or starport.

The first army is for sacrifice of course, especially since I don't have any medivacs, but replacements are coming fast from behind(6-8 units at once)

I basically overpower the opponent regardless of what he has prepared, unless he has like 7-8 tanks waiting on siege on high ground

 

[HomerX]

The first army is for sacrifice of course, especially since I don't have any medivacs, but replacements are coming fast from behind(6-8 units at once)

I basically overpower the opponent regardless of what he has prepared, unless he has like 7-8 tanks waiting on siege on high ground

fungal growth will ruin you day ^^

a midgame bio push without medivacs against a zerg is a big gamble wether he has fungal growth or not....

 

[JTsyo]

With fungal growth, can you bury banelings and have them popup under while the enemy is stuck with FG?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I didn't do the exact math, but I'm having nearly constant production of MM's from 4 rax with labs from a single base with 30 scv's working. I go concussive-stim -shields with the first one before getting out the first marauder even and the other two after 8 or so minutes in the game. One scv is constantly building depots(up to say 110 supply or so, after that you can use the orbital command to add supply if required, but it happens that your army gets thinned during assault) and from time to time a second one is required, but you have to use mules asap.

I get 2 other rax while expanding(I'm only getting the mineral line mining) and another 2 when the second base is up and running at full capacity. Yet I'm not building any factory or starport.

The first army is for sacrifice of course, especially since I don't have any medivacs, but replacements are coming fast from behind(6-8 units at once)

I basically overpower the opponent regardless of what he has prepared, unless he has like 7-8 tanks waiting on siege on high ground

you're wrong.

 

[dust]

you're wrong.

Perhaps you'd like a replay. PM your email.

 

[eLiu]

you're wrong.

It sounds like he has 4 tech lab rax. If he's making marines & marauders, then 4rax is possible. I'd be pretty surprised to see constant marauder production out of 4 tech lab rax, b/c that's 800/200 per minute... + SCVs + depots = too much spending. Or constant production with like 2 labs & 2 reactors. If he's on top of his timing, trading off the army will cut the need for depots in time to expand. Or he can cut some units; lots of options available. I'll throw down a 4th rax on 1 base if I'm in some kind of major fight where I'm not accumulating units quickly enough to need depots. 2reactor + 2lab gives you a lot of staying power with terran infantry.

This is probably a stylistic choice. 4rax sounds a little more 1-base-ish and 3rax leaves more room for expanding earlier.

That said, I hope scout actively b/c rushing the tech lab upgrades & waiting till ~8min to get the second pair of rax may leave you pretty vulnerable to a push in the 5-8minute range. That happens to be in my timing window for the first poke Also, if you aren't making only marauders (in most situations, I'd say all maruaders is a pretty bad idea), you can save yourself some $ by not building the tech lab add-ons. There's nothing wrong a 'naked' rax, esp since the reactor takes forever to build & sometimes you don't have that kind of time.

As for fungal growth & banelings, have a look at this:
http://day9fan.com/day9daily/day9-daily-214-madfrog-vs-tarson
Tarson goes almost all marines+medivacs (after a banshee opening) & even loses entire armies to banelings from time to time (so fun to watch, so horrible to experience!). But he maintains an epic number of rax, allowing him to overpower the zerg in a way similar to what the OP suggests, but on a bigger scale.

on an unrelated note: i hate DTs!!!!! GAH lol. It's even worse when I react mega stupidly.

Also, does anyone have tips for spotting DTs mixed into armies? It was a team game, and the DT guy would throw his DTs into his team's pushes... where the ripples are really hard to see & the DT attack is hard to hear b/c there's so much other noise (esp marauders shooting). I'm looking for solutions outside of "just build detection n00b." Ravens aren't exactly the lowest tech unit & it's hard to control what my teammates are doing, but if I can see DTs manually I can at least scan for them.

 

[Dumac]

I didn't do the exact math, but I'm having nearly constant production of MM's from 4 rax with labs from a single base with 30 scv's working.

4rax off 1base is pretty extreme. Also, what tech/reactor/plain ratio?

I get 2 other rax while expanding(I'm only getting the mineral line mining) and another 2 when the second base is up and running at full capacity. Yet I'm not building any factory or starport.

Pretty late expo if you wait for 4rax, which means your factory/starport will be ridiculously late

I basically overpower the opponent regardless of what he has prepared, unless he has like 7-8 tanks waiting on siege on high ground

I don't know. Based on your slow expand, lack of agression in the early game, your opponent could easily have a better economy. What league are you in? Plat?