** Official Star Craft 2 Multiplayer Thread **

[PUN]

I wish you could rejoin a game if you dropped or had to reconnect or whatever like you can in LOL. Furthermore, the penalty for leaving a game early should also be in affect.

They shouldn't penalize you if you leave or get dropped in the first 15secs of the game.
When I had a router issue, I lost so many games from not being able to launch after randomly setup.

Anyone played against 4 Protoss, Zealot rush? I think this is the hardest one to counter. I once had 30 Zealot push my mate within 5mins. Barely won the game after 1:10hr (they were ranked less favored). If they had been equally ranked, it would've been gg after 7mins.

 

[Dumac]

Yeah, when you see 2+ zergs on 4v4, they are sure to 6 pool you.

And this is why I don't like 4v4, or even 3v3. Every match is just sixpool if zerg, cannon or zealot rush is protoss, and marine rush (rarely marauder) if terran

No one ever has a decent strategy, and it is all up to luck and chance

I guess that is why they play 1v1 at tourneys and not 4v4....

 

[dank69]

They shouldn't penalize you if you leave or get dropped in the first 15secs of the game.
When I had a router issue, I lost so many games from not being able to launch after randomly setup.

Anyone played against 4 Protoss, Zealot rush? I think this is the hardest one to counter. I once had 30 Zealot push my mate within 5mins. Barely won the game after 1:10hr (they were ranked less favored). If they had been equally ranked, it would've been gg after 7mins.

banelings?

 

[PUN]

banelings?

banelings won't take down 30Zs rushing in the first 5mins.
Choke point needs to be sealed and long range damage is required, but with 30z, they are sure to break through with ease (unless you are a terran, repairing the hell out of the barracks)

So many players (even Gold/Plat) seal the choke point the wrong way.

As for Terrans, you build 2 barracks, and 2 Supply depot (vertically aligned) in the corner. 4 marines without a bunker, and 4 SCV will surely stop anything.

As for Protoss, you build one gate and pylons in the corners with canons around&next to the gate. They will try to break through the pylons first and it requires extra sec or two to get to the canons. Spread the canons (2-3) as it requires the opponents to move around more.

As for Zergs, two sunken with 6pool. Use lings to surround the sunken

 

[dank69]

banelings won't take down 30Zs rushing in the first 5mins.
Choke point needs to be sealed and long range damage is required, but with 30z, they are sure to break through with ease (unless you are a terran, repairing the hell out of the barracks)

I think you'd be surprised. Banelings are hella effective vs zealots.

 

[PUN]

I think you'd be surprised. Banelings are hella effective vs zealots.

1v1 Z rush can be stopped with banelings. But 30Zs knocking at your door, you don't stand a chance unless you have at least 2-3 Zergs all baneling. That being said, if you have 2-3 Zergs on 4v4, you'd be better off 6 pooling them instead.

 

[HomerX]

As for Zergs, two sunken with 6pool. Use lings to surround the sunken

do you really advise to 6pool in order to build two sunkens + lings very early in order to defend a possible rush???

you know that your eco will be absolutely CRAP compared to anybody else in that game... there is really no need to harass a zerg player with this bo.. he harassed himself enough....

 

[PUN]

do you really advise to 6pool in order to build two sunkens + lings very early in order to defend a possible rush???

you know that your eco will be absolutely CRAP compared to anybody else in that game... there is really no need to harass a zerg player with this bo.. he harassed himself enough....

Yeah 6 pool really lags you behind. But when you have 2-3 zergs 6 pooling someone (assuming of course), you are better off 6 pooling and harrass to draw their 2-3x 6 pool to their base and buy your mate some time.

If they 6 pool at your mates door first, you can use your lings to hold while long range does the damage and counter.

 

[eLiu]

If you get multi 6-pooled in many v many, you let the person who gets attacked die. That person should attempt to die slowly (reference: Day 9). Maybe he/she builds bunkers or cannons or sunkens or whatever. The others should secure their bases & assist each other if the attackers move on to the next target. Otherwise macro up like fucking crazy. You'll have a substantial economic advantage over the 6-poolers & be at worst on-par with the non 6-poolers. Move out *together* attacking one of the non-6poolers and you'll be doing all right.

Losing a teammate early on != losing the game.

Also I've found it helpful ot share unit control w/the dead player. He/she can then help w/micro-ing units, grab portions of armies & harass, etc, freeing the other players to ensure their macro doesn't slip at all.

Definitely need to post forward scouts at xel-nagas or along rush paths so you know the 6-pool is coming at a point before they move up your ramp. This helps you die much more slowly if you're prepared.

You can definitely beat back 6-pools, even with random teams. But you need to have information. Fuck this "oh i have to do a stupid rush in order to respond to a stupid rush" shit. There are totally ways to deal with all opposing strategies in SC2 that are not "copy it and pray for defensive advantage."

 

[PUN]

If you get multi 6-pooled in many v many, you let the person who gets attacked die. That person should attempt to die slowly (reference: Day 9). Maybe he/she builds bunkers or cannons or sunkens or whatever. The others should secure their bases & assist each other if the attackers move on to the next target. Otherwise macro up like fucking crazy. You'll have a substantial economic advantage over the 6-poolers & be at worst on-par with the non 6-poolers. Move out *together* attacking one of the non-6poolers and you'll be doing all right.

Losing a teammate early on != losing the game.

Also I've found it helpful ot share unit control w/the dead player. He/she can then help w/micro-ing units, grab portions of armies & harass, etc, freeing the other players to ensure their macro doesn't slip at all.

Definitely need to post forward scouts at xel-nagas or along rush paths so you know the 6-pool is coming at a point before they move up your ramp. This helps you die much more slowly if you're prepared.

You can definitely beat back 6-pools, even with random teams. But you need to have information. Fuck this "oh i have to do a stupid rush in order to respond to a stupid rush" shit. There are totally ways to deal with all opposing strategies in SC2 that are not "copy it and pray for defensive advantage."

Beating 4x 6pool is tough if you have a random team who are not working together.
I completely agree about letting your mate die. If all mates try to help, it'll just be a disaster. Losing 1 mate in 4x 6 pool is not a big deal, since all 4 are not teched and economically lagged behind. 3 (teched + higher eco) will always triumph over 4 6pool zergs.

Last night, I played against 3 zergs + 1 Terran with our 2 Protoss/Zerg/Terran. They actually 3x roached with marines early in the game. Luckily our zerg and terran had enough units to hold for a minute before my VR came out. We lost our Protoss (he had 1 z with 3 warpgates, WTF) With 1 VR, took out 20+ roaches and countered with 4 VR. Expanded 2 immediately and started pumping Zs and VRs, gg after few mins.

Our Zerg was smart about killing off the marines first as he knew my vr was heading out at any moment.

 

[eLiu]

Beating 4x 6pool is tough if you have a random team who are not working together.
I completely agree about letting your mate die. If all mates try to help, it'll just be a disaster. Losing 1 mate in 4x 6 pool is not a big deal, since all 4 are not teched and economically lagged behind. 3 (teched + higher eco) will always triumph over 4 6pool zergs.

Last night, I played against 3 zergs + 1 Terran with our 2 Protoss/Zerg/Terran. They actually 3x roached with marines early in the game. Luckily our zerg and terran had enough units to hold for a minute before my VR came out. We lost our Protoss (he had 1 z with 3 warpgates, WTF) With 1 VR, took out 20+ roaches and countered with 4 VR. Expanded 2 immediately and started pumping Zs and VRs, gg after few mins.

Our Zerg was smart about killing off the marines first as he knew my vr was heading out at any moment.

Yeah it is tough... if it were easy, people wouldn't employ that strategy so much D:

I've had experiences like that. It was a 3v3, PZT (us) vs ZZT. P was terrible about communicating & joining up w/us. Double 6 pool punished Z pretty hard. I had enough units to push back pretty quickly, but P had 1 zealot... and 5 warp gates. 1 zealot. I didn't want to move out alone so I kept macroing/upgrading. Eventually P had a decent army, but he kept it in his base. So the enemy's 2nd push steamrolled my supply cap'd army & Z's tiny army by the time P showed up w/his forces. Luckily it was enough. His skillful micro held the line + my reinforcements pushed them back, then we pushed soon after and won.

 

[JTsyo]

Got rushed by 2 zerg in a game yesterday. I had 2 bunkers, one outside the ramp to cover my ramp and an ally ramp and another near my SCVs. I only had 2 marines in each and when I grabbed 3 SCVs repair, 2 entered the bunker. But it was enough to hold them off until help arrived. Just lost the two bunkers and 2 marines in the first one and a marauder.

 

[eLiu]

Got rushed by 2 zerg in a game yesterday. I had 2 bunkers, one outside the ramp to cover my ramp and an ally ramp and another near my SCVs. I only had 2 marines in each and when I grabbed 3 SCVs repair, 2 entered the bunker. But it was enough to hold them off until help arrived. Just lost the two bunkers and 2 marines in the first one and a marauder.

2 bunkers is a lot of bunkers, esp if you aren't repairing them effectively. If you fear (or scout) the rush, I'd suggest 1 bunker near your mineral line or just wall-off. Bunker behind that if banelings are suspected/seen.

When you forward scout/xel-naga scout sees the rush coming, get ready to grab some SCVs near the bunker and right-click the repair autocast. If you want, direct them to move near the bunker & the repair autocast will handle the rest. Autocast has the added effect that SCVs will repair each other; I'm not sure if this is truly beneficial but its saved me some SCVs in the past. And of course don't forget to keep making SCVs and units throughout the attack.

It may also be wise to put early buildings/depots in a position that blocks access into your mineral line. You can seal it off on one side & bunker on the other side, for example. This is generally useful against future speedling run-bys, blueflame drops, etc.

Covering your ramp & your ally's ramp won't do much (but it is a friendly gesture, lol) against zerglings or roaches... they can & will just run past to the mineral line. Unless you have a wall-in of some kind, defend in your base, near repairing SCVs & your production structures.

 

[JTsyo]

2 bunkers is a lot of bunkers, esp if you aren't repairing them effectively. If you fear (or scout) the rush, I'd suggest 1 bunker near your mineral line or just wall-off. Bunker behind that if banelings are suspected/seen.

When you forward scout/xel-naga scout sees the rush coming, get ready to grab some SCVs near the bunker and right-click the repair autocast. If you want, direct them to move near the bunker & the repair autocast will handle the rest. Autocast has the added effect that SCVs will repair each other; I'm not sure if this is truly beneficial but its saved me some SCVs in the past. And of course don't forget to keep making SCVs and units throughout the attack.

It may also be wise to put early buildings/depots in a position that blocks access into your mineral line. You can seal it off on one side & bunker on the other side, for example. This is generally useful against future speedling run-bys, blueflame drops, etc.

Covering your ramp & your ally's ramp won't do much (but it is a friendly gesture, lol) against zerglings or roaches... they can & will just run past to the mineral line. Unless you have a wall-in of some kind, defend in your base, near repairing SCVs & your production structures.

The two ramps were nearby. Figured our units to block the ramp while the bunker was a stopgap.

 

[Xed]

Lol at skipping supply depots to build extra command centers/mules and being 200/200 at 13ish min mark.

 

[Dumac]

Balance
* • PROTOSS
o -- Hallucination research time decreased from 110 to 80.
o -- Observer

+ Cost decreased from 50/100 to 25/75.
​

o -- Phoenix

+ Build time decreased from 45 to 35.
​

o -- Void Ray

+ Now deals 20% more damage to massive targets.
+ Flux Vanes speed upgrade removed.
​

* • TERRAN
o -- Bunker

+ Build time decreased from 35 to 30.
# This is only a temporary change for the patch 1.2.0 PTR.
​

* -- SCV

o Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they’re repairing.
+ SCV construction movement made more consistent.
​

* • ZERG
o -- Infestor

+ Fungal Growth no longer affects air units.​

Wow, I can't believe I'm reading this.

This huge buff to phoenix build time will make phoenixes near impossible to stop v Z. Next, they take out fungal air effect, which was the best way to catch and kill phoenixes?

Why would they take out fungal air effect? Zerg already has shitty AA, and fungal was one of the few ways they had to catch annoying shit that flies around the maps. Now zerg is FORCED to go muta pretty much every match, as they can no longer do this like fungal terran drops, etc.

Sounds pretty terrible to me. Reducing the effectiveness of zergs ONLY useful spell...
​

 

[PUN]

Wow, I can't believe I'm reading this.

This huge buff to phoenix build time will make phoenixes near impossible to stop v Z. Next, they take out fungal air effect, which was the best way to catch and kill phoenixes?

Why would they take out fungal air effect? Zerg already has shitty AA, and fungal was one of the few ways they had to catch annoying shit that flies around the maps. Now zerg is FORCED to go muta pretty much every match, as they can no longer do this like fungal terran drops, etc.

Sounds pretty terrible to me. Reducing the effectiveness of zergs ONLY useful spell...
[/INDENT]

Build time on Pheonix is no big deal as it does air to air only and requires tier 2 tech.
It looks like this new patch gave a huge upper hand to the protoss.
Zerg really got screwed with this fungal growth....Mutas all the way, then get screwed with Phoenix as it's build time has decreased by 20%

 

[Dumac]

Build time on Pheonix is no big deal as it does air to air only and requires tier 2 tech.
It looks like this new patch gave a huge upper hand to the protoss.
Zerg really got screwed with this fungal growth....Mutas all the way, then get screwed with Phoenix as it's build time has decreased by 20%

Build time of phoenix is a HUGE deal. Since most phoenix play v z waits till 3 phoenix, that means they will be out 21 seconds faster than before, which is a LOT of time in Starcraft.

Back when I played P, I never lost a single match vs zerg with Phoenix play (on diamond). Most of the time they had no or little anti-air except queens, meaning you can snipe queens and overlords all day long, destroying their economy and supply. Now with those phoenixes coming out 21 seconds faster, they will be that more defenseless.

Zerg was already very weak vs phoenix builds. The best thing that could happen was to get a fungal growth on the phoenixes so you can prevent them from running. Now, you can't do that anymore.

 

[PUN]

Build time of phoenix is a HUGE deal. Since most phoenix play v z waits till 3 phoenix, that means they will be out 21 seconds faster than before, which is a LOT of time in Starcraft.

Back when I played P, I never lost a single match vs zerg with Phoenix play (on diamond). Most of the time they had no or little anti-air except queens, meaning you can snipe queens and overlords all day long, destroying their economy and supply. Now with those phoenixes coming out 21 seconds faster, they will be that more defenseless.

Zerg was already very weak vs phoenix builds. The best thing that could happen was to get a fungal growth on the phoenixes so you can prevent them from running. Now, you can't do that anymore.

Playing pheonix vs Zerg is a risky move. It is only played among silver/gold players.
Hydras are usually pumped before pheonix are out, and they are easily destroyed.
You are better off going DTS than pulling a pheonix move.
This is the same reason why Corsairs were never utilized against the zergs in SC:BW.
This under-utilization of Pheonix is what Blizzard wanted to push, thus this new patch.

Ideal thing would be to scout/harrass with 1-2 Pheonix in the beginning, then pump VR with Pheonix to take them out. You can't expect to win a game with Pheonix, which is not true with VR.

 

[Dumac]

Playing pheonix vs Zerg is a risky move. It is only played among silver/gold players.
Hydras are usually pumped before pheonix are out, and they are easily destroyed.
You are better off going DTS than pulling a pheonix move.
This is the same reason why Corsairs were never utilized against the zergs in SC:BW.
This under-utilization of Pheonix is what Blizzard wanted to push, thus this new patch.

Ideal thing would be to scout/harrass with 1-2 Pheonix in the beginning, then pump VR with Pheonix to take them out. You can't expect to win a game with Pheonix, which is not true with VR.

Wow, are you serious? I can't believe how wrong you are.

Great phoenix play is only seen in Diamond league. It is even relatively popular in PvZ matches in pro matches.

JulyZerg (one of the most famous SC1 legends) lost to multiple phoenix builds in the GSL just recently . It is a great way to play PvZ, popularized first by Nony. It really isn't that risky at all, and is a great way to take map control and vision from zerg.

I don't even know what to say to you if you think phoenix builds are for silver and gold players. Why don't you tell me that I owned every diamond zerg I've played with phoenix builds

 

[JJChicken]

Wow, are you serious? I can't believe how wrong you are.

Great phoenix play is only seen in Diamond league. It is even relatively popular in PvZ matches in pro matches.

JulyZerg (one of the most famous SC1 legends) lost to multiple phoenix builds in the GSL just recently . It is a great way to play PvZ, popularized first by Nony. It really isn't that risky at all, and is a great way to take map control and vision from zerg.

I don't even know what to say to you if you think phoenix builds are for silver and gold players. Why don't you tell me that I owned every diamond zerg I've played with phoenix builds

Agreed with above. I'm a i love you who keeps annoying zergs with phoenixes (just go for queens/OLs). Sniping queens is particularly devastating, because it really affects their macro.

On another note, since chat channels are going to be set up - let's all create an Anandtech one and have some games/tourneys. Have you guys been organising games much? I haven't had time to log into NA servers for a while, since most of my friends are on SEA.

 

[JJChicken]

Wow, I can't believe I'm reading this.

This huge buff to phoenix build time will make phoenixes near impossible to stop v Z. Next, they take out fungal air effect, which was the best way to catch and kill phoenixes?

Why would they take out fungal air effect? Zerg already has shitty AA, and fungal was one of the few ways they had to catch annoying shit that flies around the maps. Now zerg is FORCED to go muta pretty much every match, as they can no longer do this like fungal terran drops, etc.

Sounds pretty terrible to me. Reducing the effectiveness of zergs ONLY useful spell...
[/INDENT]

Yeah, just build a spore now. Get some hydralisks. Now you know how it feels like to be T/P and face that annoying muta ball.

 

[JJChicken]

And this is why I don't like 4v4, or even 3v3. Every match is just sixpool if zerg, cannon or zealot rush is protoss, and marine rush (rarely marauder) if terran

No one ever has a decent strategy, and it is all up to luck and chance

I guess that is why they play 1v1 at tourneys and not 4v4....

Need to scout better =)

Agree 4v4 is very hard. There's so many more rush strategies out there. My friend is top 100 in SC2 on SEA 1v1 and even he's not 100% sure how to play 4v4s at a reasonable level (not top).

 

[JJChicken]

Holy crap.... so I decided to try 1v1. I'm platinum in all the other leagues, but I got my butt handed to me over and over and placed in silver. Then I lost 2/3 games after that. 1v1 is just so completely different. I would always win the first battle but then fall behind. I think it'll a while until I can figure how to counter enemy units. Zealots+stalkers+collosus was the worst.

The only game I won after placing was interesting... I was about to rush him with mm when I scanned and saw 3 tanks. I was still about to charge but called it off last second. Instead of going air, I just built a bunch of tanks, bunkers, and turrets outside his main. I just kept making more and more tanks and mm outside his main. He would try to sneak a command center out but I'd shoot it down with vikings. I won the game without killing any units.

It's going to be a loooong time until I can even make to platinum. Any tips for getting better? I play terran for now.

Okay here's the thing, unless you are mid-high diamond, there is only one thing you need to worry about.

Macro.

Build workers, build units. Don't get supply blocked.

Throw the term "strategy" out of the window, it's all mechanics for us.

ALL pros will tell you this. And I'm in your boat, similar situation, trying to improve myself. Focused initially on macro, so upto about 7-8 minutes, my builds were tight. Then, because I focused on timing pushes (at the time I played random so it was either 3rax, 4gate, 14 hatch muta rush, etc.) I either ended the game quickly with my first attack or would lose longer games.

So I didn't really think much why I was not improving. Then I played with my friends, saw 1 diamond league friend of mine versus another plat league friend of mine. The diamond leaguer had 10 more supply by 9 minutes. Then I realised my macro must be slipping. So all I do now is focus on build units, build workers, don't get supply blocked.

Try it, it will do wonders. Also, I suggest going for fast expand builds because that force you to practice your macros. I mass gamed, and upto 8minutes my macro is as good as a diamond leaguer, but I didn't play long games enough so I haven't learned to multi-task that well. Now I fast expand every game (as long as its viable) just to practise.

 

[PUN]

Wow, are you serious? I can't believe how wrong you are.

Great phoenix play is only seen in Diamond league. It is even relatively popular in PvZ matches in pro matches.

JulyZerg (one of the most famous SC1 legends) lost to multiple phoenix builds in the GSL just recently . It is a great way to play PvZ, popularized first by Nony. It really isn't that risky at all, and is a great way to take map control and vision from zerg.

I don't even know what to say to you if you think phoenix builds are for silver and gold players. Why don't you tell me that I owned every diamond zerg I've played with phoenix builds

I have an exclusive Protoss account with 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 Diamond and 4v4 Plat.
In 1v1, it may work like the DTS but it could be a hit or miss. If they went mutas or hydra, you are in for some deep $hit.
In 2v2+, you can't effectively win by massing pheonix. They are meant to be used to harass and take down heavy units with their lift. They work in conjunction with other units, like the VR, but massing Pheonix against the Zerg in mid/late game is a sure loss.

Any Plat/Diamond Zerg I have encountered have not taken serious damage from my Pheonix. Zergs either mass Hydra, or they can just build AA (Spore) around the base and place the OL on top and there is nothing you can do. A good Zerg player would instead send the lings to your base for total abdomination as you won't be able to counter them.

Building VR instead of Pheonix is a better rush as it can do some devastating damage to the workers and their ground units without AA.

I've watched over 100+ hrs of top tournament clips and yet not one protoss utilized corsair to counter the zergs.
Yes they are instances where corsairs are utilized to win, and yes, I've seen a worker's rush to win a tourney as well.