**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

[maniacalpha1-1]

here is Tat outside a settlement in open world pvp..

this will give you an idea of what you are dealing with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYXkffXWCtg&noredirect=1

Hm, at first I thought there were more people fighting than there really are...then I remembered Companions...what's the respawn timer on companions that die?

 

[CVSiN]

Hm, at first I thought there were more people fighting than there really are...then I remembered Companions...what's the respawn timer on companions that die?

none... but you have to be out of combat to resummon or res them.

 

[fo0k]

i really wish companions were inactive or put away for pvp

 

[CVSiN]

i really wish companions were inactive or put away for pvp

they are in Warzones.. or if you are in groups..

but companions are part of your char.. and part of your abilties and the game was built around them being part of the player..

so Open World PVP youll have yours up too..

trust me they are very cool to have up.. specially the healer. I also really liked having a pet Jedi as well both Kira and Jeassa both kicked major butt.

 

[velillen]

they are in Warzones.. or if you are in groups..

but companions are part of your char.. and part of your abilties and the game was built around them being part of the player..

so Open World PVP youll have yours up too..

trust me they are very cool to have up.. specially the healer. I also really liked having a pet Jedi as well both Kira and Jeassa both kicked major butt.

The only time i disagree with the companions is basically what the guy had ot say in the comments on that video. That its most beneficial to be in groups or two than one large group in world pvp just cause you can then have the companions out. Seems like there should be a group world pvp mode you could enter to get a buff based on number in your party to offset not having the companions or something. just seems silly for it to be best to be in groups of 2 rather than a group of 16.

But other than that i love the companions. makes playing a healer and soloing quests doable and not to bad. Theres plenty of quests/areas i wouldnt have been to able to do as a healer without my companion to tank/dps for me

 

[CVSiN]

The only time i disagree with the companions is basically what the guy had ot say in the comments on that video. That its most beneficial to be in groups or two than one large group in world pvp just cause you can then have the companions out. Seems like there should be a group world pvp mode you could enter to get a buff based on number in your party to offset not having the companions or something. just seems silly for it to be best to be in groups of 2 rather than a group of 16.

But other than that i love the companions. makes playing a healer and soloing quests doable and not to bad. Theres plenty of quests/areas i wouldnt have been to able to do as a healer without my companion to tank/dps for me

that was their choice.. nothing at all says if you have the real manpower and classes to roll a fewer peeps with companions out..
the problem is companions are so much more than pets.. they count as a player in groups so in order to have them up you do have to either solo or groups of 2 max..

they are not allowed in warzones at all though..

anything open world they will be allowed though..
for all means they are the equivalent of a player though.. in fact they are better than some average players I have delt with.. they don't break CCs they cast CCs... and they know their roles..

 

[velillen]

that was their choice.. nothing at all says if you have the real manpower and classes to roll a fewer peeps with companions out..
the problem is companions are so much more than pets.. they count as a player in groups so in order to have them up you do have to either solo or groups of 2 max..

they are not allowed in warzones at all though..

anything open world they will be allowed though..
for all means they are the equivalent of a player though.. in fact they are better than some average players I have delt with.. they don't break CCs they cast CCs... and they know their roles..

o i know that its their choice. Just seems silly to me is all. And yes companions are definitely better than some players i encoutnered. Nothing like ccing an add only to have him attack that add >.<

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

although I'm sure companions have excellent reflexes to not break CC(assuming you mean crowd control like mezzes/roots), and players who can't stop themselves from screwing those up are often inferior to one I'm sure, how is their raw power, ie hit points and damage output compared to a player? Both PvE and PvP purposes.

 

[CVSiN]

although I'm sure companions have excellent reflexes to not break CC(assuming you mean crowd control like mezzes/roots), and players who can't stop themselves from screwing those up are often inferior to one I'm sure, how is their raw power, ie hit points and damage output compared to a player? Both PvE and PvP purposes.

Depends on the gear you give them..
you have to gear them out..
so if you bought them an entire set of L50 PVP gear or gave them a full set of Purple raid gear they would be very bit as good as a player.. in some cases better..

as a Sith Marauder and Jedi Sentinel Kira and Jeassa ( both pole arm saber weilding jedi comps ) did more DPS than the player did..

Vette is pretty amazing as well..

and the healers are all very good..

Blizz and the ranged tank comps are all crazy good too..

but again... that is ALL based on how you gear them.. they need a full set of weps and armor just as the player does..

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Depends on the gear you give them..
you have to gear them out..
so if you bought them an entire set of L50 PVP gear or gave them a full set of Purple raid gear they would be very bit as good as a player.. in some cases better..

as a Sith Marauder and Jedi Sentinel Kira and Jeassa ( both pole arm saber weilding jedi comps ) did more DPS than the player did..

Vette is pretty amazing as well..

and the healers are all very good..

Blizz and the ranged tank comps are all crazy good too..

but again... that is ALL based on how you gear them.. they need a full set of weps and armor just as the player does..

Companions use the same gear as the players? That's cool actually.

This reminds me...how many gear slots are there?

 

[CVSiN]

Companions use the same gear as the players? That's cool actually.

This reminds me...how many gear slots are there?

yes exact same gear.. which is going to casue some need/greed issues


lots cant remeber off the top of my head..

all the standards plus some new ones... head torso legs boots bracers gloves weps/offhand

earpiece.. implant and 2 relic slots

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

yes exact same gear.. which is going to casue some need/greed issues


lots cant remeber off the top of my head..

all the standards plus some new ones... head torso legs boots bracers gloves weps/offhand

earpiece.. implant and 2 relic slots

hmmm...I'm guessing there's no lore tags(uniqueness to high level items) otherwise it would interfere with you giving your companion the same gear you have...and that guilds will probably have a "live players first" policy, lol.

and that reminds me. Previous games, to get into a raid guild you have to kiss major ass and rimjobs while you're doing it didn't hurt...how does the fact that raid sizes are only 14 people(or whatever) affect this? Everybody and their brother has a guild, or guilds still get huge and simply have 2-3 raids going on at once?

 

[CVSiN]

hmmm...I'm guessing there's no lore tags(uniqueness to high level items) otherwise it would interfere with you giving your companion the same gear you have...and that guilds will probably have a "live players first" policy, lol.

and that reminds me. Previous games, to get into a raid guild you have to kiss major ass and rimjobs while you're doing it didn't hurt...how does the fact that raid sizes are only 14 people(or whatever) affect this? Everybody and their brother has a guild, or guilds still get huge and simply have 2-3 raids going on at once?

noone knows how thats going to work yet.. very few beta guilds had more than 20 peeps..

and even fewer got to high levels..

Raid guilds for the most part are elitist scum so I imagine you better get the golden knee pads ready in order to secure a slot.. especially being there are no raid addons to hold your hand in this game.

I will be playing casual this time around and care less really.. ive had enough of the WoW elitist attitudes to last me the rest of my life..

 

[Soccerman06]

Depends on the gear you give them..
you have to gear them out..
so if you bought them an entire set of L50 PVP gear or gave them a full set of Purple raid gear they would be very bit as good as a player.. in some cases better..

as a Sith Marauder and Jedi Sentinel Kira and Jeassa ( both pole arm saber weilding jedi comps ) did more DPS than the player did..

Vette is pretty amazing as well..

and the healers are all very good..

Blizz and the ranged tank comps are all crazy good too..

but again... that is ALL based on how you gear them.. they need a full set of weps and armor just as the player does..

Honestly, as someone who played 5 builds, if your being outdpsed by your companion as a mara (aside from build 4) your just bad. To go deeper into the playstyle, vette does more dps and is a better companion than jaessa overall since she doesnt have to move between mobs to do damage. However you should be using quinn as a companion simply because he has cc and heals just as good as a player if geared well. In every build Ive been in, quinn can keep me alive against every mob level except boss elites, yes including 5 star/plat level mobs. I was able to solo 2+ heroics with him, including the build where they made heroics hard.

Just because you can kill a little faster with a dps companion doesnt mean you cant complete quests just as fast with a healer companion.

 

[velillen]

noone knows how thats going to work yet.. very few beta guilds had more than 20 peeps..

and even fewer got to high levels..

Raid guilds for the most part are elitist scum so I imagine you better get the golden knee pads ready in order to secure a slot.. especially being there are no raid addons to hold your hand in this game.

I will be playing casual this time around and care less really.. ive had enough of the WoW elitist attitudes to last me the rest of my life..

Im sure you will see plenty of casual guilds doing raids still. With 8 man's that is an easy group to assemble. I know one thing Republic Justice did mention was how the at least entry raid was pretty casual. How you dont really need boss timers or anything as you got messages for big things. I just remember fighting the lava guy in the first raid and they said you get a red message when he did whatever it was that ment you moved to the next platform.

but im liking the fact they said it wasnt something you had to be hardcore about either and that a group of level 50's who knew their classes could probably complete the instance. Thats probably what has me the most excited as i can get in a nice casual guild and just have fun. vs WoW and having to put multiple nights every week into the game.

and that reminds me. Previous games, to get into a raid guild you have to kiss major ass and rimjobs while you're doing it didn't hurt...how does the fact that raid sizes are only 14 people(or whatever) affect this? Everybody and their brother has a guild, or guilds still get huge and simply have 2-3 raids going on at once?

im sure you will see both. Some smaller guilds with only 20 or so members. And other large guilds who run 2 16 mans every week. And im sure youll see larger guilds who have raids, pvpers, and just casuals as well. My ideal guild would probably be around 25 people, run one 16 man a week (and maybe an optional 8 or something for alts) and pvp together. but most importantly i just want to have fun and like CVSiN im going to be a lot more casual than i was in WoW.

As for large having 2 groups.....when WoW went from 40 man raids to 25 i know a few guilds tried to have two raids going. But usually within a month or two the two groups split as you always ended up with one raid having all the hardcore/good raiders and the rest having everyone else or people from raid b being pulled into a to fill a slot.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Maybe this will come to me quickly after release, but what I don't get is how it can be that....difficult and...distinguished... with 16 man max raids. Seems like it would be extremely easy to get that many people together, in EQ part of the problem was getting the higher number required. Is there something different about it that makes it so that it will scale down and make it hard to get 16 competent (doesn't even have to be uber) people?

Also, what kind of expansion policy has been mentioned? New expansion(and therefore new gearing up) every year, 2 years, what?

 

[BenSkywalker]

Previous games, to get into a raid guild you have to kiss major ass and rimjobs while you're doing it didn't hurt...

Honestly, I've never dealt with this at all. Normally if I'm looking to get into a progression raiding guild I get a gear check and a trial run. Either you make it in, or you don't(I've never failed to get in) and I make it a point to keep my mouth shut until I am well aware of who is who in a new guild.

Raid guilds for the most part are elitist scum

I've been in progression raid guilds for years, and for the most part they actually have rather harsh rules about being nice to the scrubs on the server. Last guild I was in in Rift booted someone out of the guild for talking trash to a casual guild(he was one of our top 5 dps toons too). Between the other progression guilds, it was open game.

Honestly, as someone who played 5 builds, if your being outdpsed by your companion as a mara (aside from build 4) your just bad.

You been following this thread Soccer? Not a lot of real MMO players in here, seems like this game is attracting a bunch of people that don't have any experience with MMO mechanics in general. In time I'm sure they will look back and facepalm over some of the comments.

Maybe this will come to me quickly after release, but what I don't get is how it can be that....difficult and...distinguished... with 16 man max raids.

You play during Wrath at all? 10 mans were always 'harder' then 25 mans(and gave inferior loot, that was just a bad design decission though- all of it was faceroll, but the 25 mans you could go in 5 players short and have no problem). The smaller the raid size the tighter the tuning can be.

Is there something different about it that makes it so that it will scale down and make it hard to get 16 competent (doesn't even have to be uber) people?

You can tune the content to require 16 uber people, not saying they will, but they could easily do so.

Also, what kind of expansion policy has been mentioned? New expansion(and therefore new gearing up) every year, 2 years, what?

Expansions for modern MMOs mean new leveling. Regearing happens every couple/few months when new tiers of raid/pvp gear hit.

 

[CVSiN]

Honestly, as someone who played 5 builds, if your being outdpsed by your companion as a mara (aside from build 4) your just bad. To go deeper into the playstyle, vette does more dps and is a better companion than jaessa overall since she doesnt have to move between mobs to do damage. However you should be using quinn as a companion simply because he has cc and heals just as good as a player if geared well. In every build Ive been in, quinn can keep me alive against every mob level except boss elites, yes including 5 star/plat level mobs. I was able to solo 2+ heroics with him, including the build where they made heroics hard.

Just because you can kill a little faster with a dps companion doesnt mean you cant complete quests just as fast with a healer companion.

Quinn was flat ass buggy last build as was Mar DPS.. in previous builds it was MUCh higher.. since the so called "FIX" it went into the shitter.

Quinn would just stand there and no heal or attack last build.. he would start healing.. and then for unknown reasons just stand there.. this was a confirmed bug with many other people last build.. where Mako would stand there and spam heals on a BH the entire time and quinn would be stargazing or some crap..
i flat disagree as many other people do.. Jeassa and Kira are flat the best DPS I saw during my 6 months of beta..

And btw the beauty of this game is it can be played different ways.. nothing says you have to use ANY companion.. its about roleplaying.. and personally Id rather have a beautiful funny flirty female companion with a lightsaber than some stiff military prick dude that can sometimes heal me..

but hey that's me..

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Honestly, I've never dealt with this at all. Normally if I'm looking to get into a progression raiding guild I get a gear check and a trial run. Either you make it in, or you don't(I've never failed to get in) and I make it a point to keep my mouth shut until I am well aware of who is who in a new guild.

Expansions for modern MMOs mean new leveling. Regearing happens every couple/few months when new tiers of raid/pvp gear hit.

Actually, I think I would miss it if raid guilds weren't elitist. It's just the way things are supposed to be! If they aren't elitist maybe it's because the game is too transitory for anyone to stick around long enough to be elitist in the first place!

Has EA actually confirmed how often they plan to release expansions? Also, I know, puke-puke, but comparing to EQ, it could take 1-2 expansions before you could reasonably solo old hard group content, and 3-4 expansions before you could group or solo old large raid content. I wonder if there's even a reason to go back and solo old raid content. Probably can't even loot it...

 

[CVSiN]

Honestly, I've never dealt with this at all. Normally if I'm looking to get into a progression raiding guild I get a gear check and a trial run. Either you make it in, or you don't(I've never failed to get in) and I make it a point to keep my mouth shut until I am well aware of who is who in a new guild.



I've been in progression raid guilds for years, and for the most part they actually have rather harsh rules about being nice to the scrubs on the server. Last guild I was in in Rift booted someone out of the guild for talking trash to a casual guild(he was one of our top 5 dps toons too). Between the other progression guilds, it was open game.



You been following this thread Soccer? Not a lot of real MMO players in here, seems like this game is attracting a bunch of people that don't have any experience with MMO mechanics in general. In time I'm sure they will look back and facepalm over some of the comments.

Sorry but you're flat wrong... I've played and been in competitive PVP and raiding guilds in every MMO since day one of UO..
and yes we tested this extensively and I was not the only one to notice that most DPS companions could chew through 2 mobs before the player could kill 1..
this was well documented especially in the 20-30 range on the Marauder and Sentinel especially.. even after their so called "fix" they are still very weak in the mid levels..

I'm flat tired of the WoW raiding attitudes.. must have x DPS must have x achievement.. must have x rotation.. must have x gearscore.. back in the old days we didnt give a shit about all of this as long as the boss dropped..

it was about friends and killing things with your friends.. somewhere along the lines people forgot about friends and only care about the numbers.

When guilds get so fucking competitive that friends get dumped from a raid beacsue another rogue was 3% better than him... and you can only have so many rogues per raid that's flat retarded..

or being told because you dont have gear BETTER than that drops where you want to go that you cant go? so how exactly are to supposed to get the lower gear if they only want to badge farm it with overgeared people?

I refuse to play like this anymore.. I refuse to enter into a endless gearscore DPS race with so called friends to make the raiding cut..

when you are talking about such small percentages its ridiculous.. to literally have to try out for a raid spot for your class... this is a game not a job..

if SWTOR ever turns into this.. I will quit MMOs forever..
but for now it's KOTOR that has multiplayer in it.. and that's what I'm looking for.

 

[HumblePie]

Actually, I think I would miss it if raid guilds weren't elitist. It's just the way things are supposed to be! If they aren't elitist maybe it's because the game is too transitory for anyone to stick around long enough to be elitist in the first place!

Has EA actually confirmed how often they plan to release expansions? Also, I know, puke-puke, but comparing to EQ, it could take 1-2 expansions before you could reasonably solo old hard group content, and 3-4 expansions before you could group or solo old large raid content. I wonder if there's even a reason to go back and solo old raid content. Probably can't even loot it...

Elitist doesn't make a game profitable. You can make content HARD, but you can not make it impossible for some people to experience. Doing the later is bad game design.

Going back to WoW, before BC, almost all the raids were 40 man raids. They were hard for most 40 man guilds. Especially when they were just adding them. I was in many a guild, and unless the majority of the raid had at least some raid level gear or stock/strath gear and knew what they were doing then completing the raids was damn near impossible for some guilds. Not to mention to effort it took trying to get 40 people you knew and trusted to run a raid together all at the same time and could afford to be able to play the 3-6 hours it may take to complete a raid. For many people the logistics of even trying it was impossible for them. There were huge segments of the online population that were then unable to experience much of the late game content that Blizzard was providing. Which in turn hampered them in other ways. No raid gear? Well PVP is going to suck for you. They didn't even have PVP rewards in place when they first put in 40 man raid dungeons. There was literally nothing left for the average and overwhelming majority of the player base to do once reaching max level beyond stock/strath/LBRS/UBRS runs. Progression was completely stuck for many.

I was in one of those elitist guilds at the time though. Let me tell you it was annoying as hell. The amount of ass you had to kiss to get gear. Even using the DKPS or point system that the guild would come up with didn't mean squat. Especially if you just joined. A piece of gear drops on a raid you can use, but since just joined the guild you would have zero to little points to "bet" with. So the chances of you getting gear would literally take MONTHS of weekly raids. I knew many a player that had to wait full on 3 months of constant raiding before they got to own a single piece of raid gear. Then there was the real bullshit. I played a hunter and say for example a good melee weapon drops in the raid. I want it, can use it, and have the points to outbbid anyone. BUT the weapon is 2.0 dps better than what the current tank is using. So because the "tank" needs to be outfitted first, they get it for free. Not that the tank needs the extra 2.0 dps. That is the crap I used to see happen all the time. I'm not talking about a single isolated guild here. This was the crap that the original EQ had pulled way back in the day. It was junk game design then, and it's junk game design now.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Elitist doesn't make a game profitable. You can make content HARD, but you can not make it impossible for some people to experience. Doing the later is bad game design.

Going back to WoW, before BC, almost all the raids were 40 man raids. They were hard for most 40 man guilds. Especially when they were just adding them. I was in many a guild, and unless the majority of the raid had at least some raid level gear or stock/strath gear and knew what they were doing then completing the raids was damn near impossible for some guilds. Not to mention to effort it took trying to get 40 people you knew and trusted to run a raid together all at the same time and could afford to be able to play the 3-6 hours it may take to complete a raid. For many people the logistics of even trying it was impossible for them. There were huge segments of the online population that were then unable to experience much of the late game content that Blizzard was providing. Which in turn hampered them in other ways. No raid gear? Well PVP is going to suck for you. They didn't even have PVP rewards in place when they first put in 40 man raid dungeons. There was literally nothing left for the average and overwhelming majority of the player base to do once reaching max level beyond stock/strath/LBRS/UBRS runs. Progression was completely stuck for many.

I was in one of those elitist guilds at the time though. Let me tell you it was annoying as hell. The amount of ass you had to kiss to get gear. Even using the DKPS or point system that the guild would come up with didn't mean squat. Especially if you just joined. A piece of gear drops on a raid you can use, but since just joined the guild you would have zero to little points to "bet" with. So the chances of you getting gear would literally take MONTHS of weekly raids. I knew many a player that had to wait full on 3 months of constant raiding before they got to own a single piece of raid gear. Then there was the real bullshit. I played a hunter and say for example a good melee weapon drops in the raid. I want it, can use it, and have the points to outbbid anyone. BUT the weapon is 2.0 dps better than what the current tank is using. So because the "tank" needs to be outfitted first, they get it for free. Not that the tank needs the extra 2.0 dps. That is the crap I used to see happen all the time. I'm not talking about a single isolated guild here. This was the crap that the original EQ had pulled way back in the day. It was junk game design then, and it's junk game design now.

Well, I never played WoW, and while there was a lot of the "keep the tank maximized" going on in my EQ days, what I really meant by elitist was socially elitist, meaning not that they would figure out that someone was 2&#37; more DPS than you and drop you from the raid for him, but instead that they wanted you to be constantly "sending tells to guild members, getting to know them" blah blah blah. I say if your guild isn't full, and I want to raid, and I'm not a known douchebag on the server, and I can commit to your schedule, just fuckin invite me.

Now, as for giving the tank every minor upgrade, I did see that a lot, but remember I played on FV, the all tradeable server. In my guilds, some of them had official procedures that when you got an upgrade, you turned in your old gear for disbursement to someone else and some guilds people did it voluntarily, but either way, I firmly believe, based on 5 years experience on that server, in the all-tradeable concept. It worked and it did not cause people to not start new toons. In fact, the knowledge that I could start a new toon and, once I managed to reach high level, not have to spend 2 years raiding on it to get equipped helped keep me making more toons, otherwise I would not.

And I was never one to enjoy leaving a toon sitting there in the market, so I'd always sell cheap. Group gear that sold for 50k plat I'd sell for 10k to get it moving...if I managed to acquire spare raid gear, I probably kept for alts lol, otherwise I sold it at similarly reduced prices - 500k normal price I sold for 200k for example.

But remember, when I talk about "raid gear", that's either the lowest tier raid gear of the current expansion, or old expansion gear. Selling the current expansion's highest gear simply did not happen, except in shady back corner deals for millions of plat, they were NOT put on public display, probably because they didn't want to get caught by their guild. At any rate, those deals are insignificant to the greater game, tradeable gear keeps gear flowing to new guild members without them having to raid 3 months to get stuff, and it does NOT stop people from making new toons and continuing to subscribe, it in fact encourages people to make new toons.

One extra point on "keeping the tank maxxed". Sometimes that's a good policy, it can make the difference between your guild being able to beat an extra encounter or not. I mean, if by doing this your guild could raid 6 out of 7 high end raids, but if you don't, you will only be able to do 4 out of 7 for the next 6 weeks, that's 6 weeks X 2 raids = a lot of extra guild gear. Because a lot of high encounters have AE effects or adds that require the whole guild to be good geared but some of them are single non-AE encounters that focus on the tank.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

How long do you think it will take for the price on regular edition to drop, even if just to $50 from $60? I'm already thinking of how much to spend on the upcoming Steam sale and frankly $10 goes a long way.

 

[CVSiN]

How long do you think it will take for the price on regular edition to drop, even if just to $50 from $60? I'm already thinking of how much to spend on the upcoming Steam sale and frankly $10 goes a long way.

several years...

 

[Phanuel]

Well, I never played WoW, and while there was a lot of the "keep the tank maximized" going on in my EQ days, what I really meant by elitist was socially elitist, meaning not that they would figure out that someone was 2% more DPS than you and drop you from the raid for him, but instead that they wanted you to be constantly "sending tells to guild members, getting to know them" blah blah blah. I say if your guild isn't full, and I want to raid, and I'm not a known douchebag on the server, and I can commit to your schedule, just fuckin invite me.

Uh, how about no? You kinda need to prove to a raiding guild that you can A) Do what is required of you the entire encounter, B) Fit in with the group, C) Commit to this group of people for the foreseeable future. Hint, we're not randoming out loot for a reason because we see loot as payment for services rendered in arrears. Some guilds are more douchey than others, that's a given. Success can = ego inflation and elitism, and sometimes justifiably so if the content is legitimately hard enough that a group of random, semi-coordinated people cannot complete it easily.

The new LFR in WoW is perfect for you if you want to see the content, get some mild upgrades, and keep rolling alts. I'm enjoying it when I can queue with some guild mates and just spend a couple hours basically dicking around with encounters that normally require a bit more concentration from us in normal and heroic mode.