**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

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lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Meant to log on yesterday to check pop level but got busy. Given how previous server was all but actually deserted, and if all the other seed ones are even remotely similar, could be a decently packed destination server.
 

Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,752
25
91
I had moved over my 2 chars and on the imp fleet at about 1pmish on weds there was about 150ppl before like less than 50ish at evening/weekends

my other char a rep on tattooine logged in at about the same time there was aobut 30is ppl on there, before it was like less then 10
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Apparently the other day showed us a big patch that added neat features.

Looks fun, I'm in, if only for a month.
Unless theres a free weekend or somebody has a guest pass or something?
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Just read the 1.3 full patch notes, man they're long. Really good though, there's a lot of little changes here and there that are really nice that just add to making the game a lot more 'friendly'. GTNs are now universal, you no longer lose your party when entering a warzone, adrenal/relic balancing to reduce PVP burst, improved loot from normal flashpoints, more intelligent AoE effects to reduce unintentional CC breaks, improvements to tank threat all stuck out to me.

Gonna finish transferring my characters today/tonight, I'm not sure if my friends will ever get back into the game but oh well. I still want to beat EC HM lol.
 

Sentrosi2121

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2004
2,568
2
81
That's my guilds only driving force right now; to complete HMs in EV (done), KP (Attempting) and EC (Haven't tried. Just getting into SM with that one).

BUT one major hurdle will be Planetside 2. A number of us came to the Dragon Wolves at first to play the original. Now that the sequel has been announced I figure that I have about a month to clear KP HM and both ECs before PS2 Beta hits us. Then we're pretty much gone. You can't argue with F2P and most of us have families that we like to see more than twice a week. I put it to my guild and they all pretty much confirmed my suspicions that they're going to be playing PS2 exclusively because of those two reasons. Just a couple of guys were going to progress to getting HK-51.

I'm happy with my guilds progression. We weren't hardcore. We took our time. And we grew as a team. But I want to see EC all the way through.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Augmentation update more or less annoys the piss out of me.

Developers argued that they would be "throwing a bone to the crafting community" and make them an even more integral part of the economy.

horseshit.

Now, the only incentive for crafting (for Synth, arms, armor) is to craft the augmentation kits. Now that all gear, all relics, all anything can be augmented, there is absolutely no reason to use custom crafted pieces for end-game content. No reason.

So, we're basically just crafting to sell kits. whoop-d-fucking-do. The obnoxious gear grind for end game has only gotten worse, as now you pretty much "have to" get full campaign/Columni/whatever sets.

On top of that, (not surprisingly, though) augments have become retarded expensive to craft. Used to be ~50k. now the mats put you at ~160k per augment. I know this will eventually come down, but it's annoying.

I guess I shouldn't be the kind soul that I am and keep giving out the kits like I'm doing, making it more and more difficult to afford the augment crafting.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Augmentation update more or less annoys the piss out of me.

Developers argued that they would be "throwing a bone to the crafting community" and make them an even more integral part of the economy.

horseshit.

Now, the only incentive for crafting (for Synth, arms, armor) is to craft the augmentation kits. Now that all gear, all relics, all anything can be augmented, there is absolutely no reason to use custom crafted pieces for end-game content. No reason.

So, we're basically just crafting to sell kits. whoop-d-fucking-do. The obnoxious gear grind for end game has only gotten worse, as now you pretty much "have to" get full campaign/Columni/whatever sets.

On top of that, (not surprisingly, though) augments have become retarded expensive to craft. Used to be ~50k. now the mats put you at ~160k per augment. I know this will eventually come down, but it's annoying.

I guess I shouldn't be the kind soul that I am and keep giving out the kits like I'm doing, making it more and more difficult to afford the augment crafting.

I have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

Guess I'll have to learn when I jump in. :awe:
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
I have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

Guess I'll have to learn when I jump in. :awe:

crafting/economy mumbo-jumbo.

This, specifically, is mostly relevant in the endgame. So, if you're into gear grinding for slightly better stats to help you grind slightly better the next time to get more slightly better stuff to grind even slightly better....then it matters.

 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
logged on after swapping over. Had almost 300 in fleet and a good number outside on other planets.

guess seeing someone besides myself show up in fleet is good
 

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
9,427
16
81
Ugh. I literally can't log on to any of my characters since today's update. They all just hang on the load screen.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Without making crafting obscenely time consuming and expensive to level (a la FFXI) it's hard to give crafters anything other than 'consumables' that there's a demand for without making it too easy to obtain the gear. It's pretty similar to what they gave Blacksmiths in WoW.

I think it's a good compromise, because it takes the emphasis off of crit crafting which resulted in astute crafters realizing that only certain companions (and therefore classes) were useful for certain crafts and truly provides a way for characters to look 'exactly' how they want, whereas there wasn't always appropriate craftable gear for the look you wanted before. The demand for the kits should create a fairly steady outlet for crafters over time as well I'd think.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
Now, the only incentive for crafting (for Synth, arms, armor) is to craft the augmentation kits. Now that all gear, all relics, all anything can be augmented, there is absolutely no reason to use custom crafted pieces for end-game content. No reason.

Before, you could craft, craft, craft, pop a crit- sell for ~150K ish for four different item slots and double on that for augments. Now, you craft augment slot kits x14 for ~$100K a pop then craft augments themselves for ~150K a pop. Old system crafters were limited to a potential revenue stream of ~1.2Million per character. With the new system, ~4.2 million per character. They didn't throw us a bone, they gave us a huge T-Bone steak with a couple sides. If you can't figure out how to make money hand over fist with the changes in crafting, perhaps solitaire is more your speed?

On top of that, (not surprisingly, though) augments have become retarded expensive to craft. Used to be ~50k. now the mats put you at ~160k per augment.

I had to check, guess it would be ~120K for 4x advanced neural augment on my server. There is a way around that, roll a slicer. Yet again, these changes made a significant positive cash flow to another crafting profession.

So, if you're into gear grinding for slightly better stats to help you grind slightly better the next time to get more slightly better stuff to grind even slightly better....then it matters.

This comment has me scratching my head, what are you grinding? ToR has to be *by far* the least grindy MMO I've ever seen in terms of acquiring gear. Eight man ops bosses drop ~4 pieces of gear each, a SM EV/KP run takes ~an hour. That's ~20 pieces of Coumni ish gear in about an hour, roughly 3 *minutes* per item. How much easier could it be to get yourself geared?
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,096
0
81
1.3 changes are nice [I haven't logged in for awhile].

- Augment kits - cool, but a huge time/resource sink.
- LFG panel - haven't tried it, but I'm going to assume it works just like other MMO's. And I've heard you are shuttled to the group [insta teleport FTW!]
- legacy xp perks - activated on my level 30 jugg, but really haven't noticed any significant xp gains from space, exploration, class quests. I'm going to test this theory out on a republic character from level 1 to see if I can bypass ALL of the non-class quests [I will explore, run space missions, and class quests]
- Quite a lot more players actively playing the game during off hours [EST server from ~8am-1pm and 7:30pm-midnight].

Definitely a step in the right direction - I just hope they add more things to keep us busy/entertained at a regular basis else people will get bored and quit.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Before, you could craft, craft, craft, pop a crit- sell for ~150K ish for four different item slots and double on that for augments. Now, you craft augment slot kits x14 for ~$100K a pop then craft augments themselves for ~150K a pop. Old system crafters were limited to a potential revenue stream of ~1.2Million per character. With the new system, ~4.2 million per character. They didn't throw us a bone, they gave us a huge T-Bone steak with a couple sides. If you can't figure out how to make money hand over fist with the changes in crafting, perhaps solitaire is more your speed?

prices are dropping, of course. augment kits are now about 60k each, so half the price in less than a week. Sure, they are "easier" to make than crit crafted gear, but assuming that the universal augment on crit crafted gear now makes them theoretically more valuable doesn't compensate for that, because there is generally not much of a reason for people to purchase those. And again, my original point isn't completely about the economy--it's simply that for those crafting skills--you are now only useful as an augment kit crafter. That is it.

believe me--I know how to make money with this economy. And I also knew that the market for kits would collapse quite quickly. crit crafting was stable and dependable. expect MK-6 kits to hit the 20k-30k mark soon enough. I was at 3 million at the time of 1.3 on my main character (only through main character work), so not sure what you mean by that 1.2 million limit per character?

ToR now has piles and piles of crafting plans that are essentially useless to long-term players. They effectively made all of the armor from synth and armortech obsolete. That's not a T-bone--that's a fucking McDonald's patty of empty sawdust.

I had to check, guess it would be ~120K for 4x advanced neural augment on my server. There is a way around that, roll a slicer. Yet again, these changes made a significant positive cash flow to another crafting profession.

Oh, I already have a slicer, now at about 180 in slicing at level 29. Don't get to work on him much, though, because my play time is limited to BS grinding on my main (I really don't do it too much, because that is boring as fuck.) This is the one item that has continued to rise in price since the update. Funny--augments are less profit than they used to me. At the moment, they are selling pretty close to cost (some people even had some of the less-desirable ones (for me, anyway) at a loss--guessing these don't require neural augmenters?). I was able to sell Redoubt augments at ~90-100k each, with about 35-40k cost to craft them. rather reliably.

Now, they are turning about 30k in profit (140-150k at 120k cost). So, no...that is not a new revenue stream. It is the loss/handicap of a previous revenue stream. (the augments, that is. Yes--the material value now gives slicers a HUGE push in terms of profit. That's for sure). In fact, I think slicing is likely the only crew skill that has seen a real boost in sustainable profit.


This comment has me scratching my head, what are you grinding? ToR has to be *by far* the least grindy MMO I've ever seen in terms of acquiring gear. Eight man ops bosses drop ~4 pieces of gear each, a SM EV/KP run takes ~an hour. That's ~20 pieces of Coumni ish gear in about an hour, roughly 3 *minutes* per item. How much easier could it be to get yourself geared?

to answer your grinding explanation--I pretty much only have time to do dailies on any given day. Once I get the implants, ear, and relics with those daily comms (only the ear left to go), I will focus more on HM and bosses and such. Which...you still have to do them over, several times, to get something for your class--or if you get some "junk," pay the cost to rip out the one mod that is somewhat useful for your class...then trash the piece as it probably can't be used for your comps, either (class limits).

My answer to "least grindy" is that you should play some others--chiefly MMOs that don't require gear to determine your usefulness, but your actual skill with your class. hint, hint...

Don't get why people think that such end game find the gear "content" is a necessary mode for MMO play, but there you go. If you don't believe me, but want to see how well that can be done without the gear grind, then keep your eyes open on Aug 28.


By the way--I still enjoy ToR, to some degree. it's just that every time I join a FP, even with guildies, there's always "WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DO THAT?" I'm like--sorry douchenozzle, this is my first time through here. I learn quickly, perhaps it took you several runs, but be patient, dick. We didn't even die, barely lost any health...get over it. People are weird.

Far too much of that in this game, which is the main reason I tend not to bother with the content that requires a dedicated 1 hour or so of your time to complete something, with a group.
 
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darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Following 1.2 I worked on making a set of augmentable gear, took an exceedingly long time to get the chest piece I wanted (and I'm pretty sure that's the only one I ever did get as I searched and searched for pieces that would go well with it to little to no avail) and couldn't sell the second crit chest I did manage to make.

Crit crafting was hardly reliable or lucrative in my experience, and puts characters without a +crit companion at a severe disadvantage and generally creates an environment/economy where non-crit crafts are near worthless. Further for the overall player experience kit usage is far more preferable as players are no longer shackled by the fact certain looks/colorations of gear are/were not able to be crafted.

Kit price will obviously see sudden drops early on as numerous crafters try to cash on in a new market with high demand and/or turn to their own personal means of crafting, but it will become less volatile with time as both supply and demand decrease once the 'newness' wears off and many players have bought their fill of kits.

In the long run kits and augments will likely be sustainable markets where crafters can make modest profits.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Following 1.2 I worked on making a set of augmentable gear, took an exceedingly long time to get the chest piece I wanted (and I'm pretty sure that's the only one I ever did get as I searched and searched for pieces that would go well with it to little to no avail) and couldn't sell the second crit chest I did manage to make.

Crit crafting was hardly reliable or lucrative in my experience, and puts characters without a +crit companion at a severe disadvantage and generally creates an environment/economy where non-crit crafts are near worthless. Further for the overall player experience kit usage is far more preferable as players are no longer shackled by the fact certain looks/colorations of gear are/were not able to be crafted.

Kit price will obviously see sudden drops early on as numerous crafters try to cash on in a new market with high demand and/or turn to their own personal means of crafting, but it will become less volatile with time as both supply and demand decrease once the 'newness' wears off and many players have bought their fill of kits.

In the long run kits and augments will likely be sustainable markets where crafters can make modest profits.

yes, I do like the idea and in the end--would prefer the use of augment kits. My criticism, though--is that for the best gear, there is no real reason, now, to get anything but campaign/black hole, columni, etc. These are the only pieces that offer set bonuses. Before, the second tier bonus for a full set of these was so meager as to be trumped by ignoring those and using crafted, augmented chest/legs/head. (you couldn't augment the hands and feet, anyway) This allowed you real, individual customization.

Now, you are essentially limited with the end game gear sets, and so more and more--people will look far less individualized. On top of that--the skins for all of these sets is absolute garbage (for my class, assassin, anyway :\).

Now, I like that you can pick up armor pieces that are uncraftable, with skins you prefer, and augment them....but at the same time of offering this new customization potential, its value is essentially removed.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
And again, my original point isn't completely about the economy--it's simply that for those crafting skills--you are now only useful as an augment kit crafter.

Augments.

Augments.

Augments.

Before you could craft 4 pieces of gear that you crit on that was worth people buying if you were synth/arms and four augments to sell. Now you can craft 14 augment kits *AND* 14 augments. There has been a *very* sharp increase in how much you can craft and sell to people.

I was at 3 million at the time of 1.3 on my main character (only through main character work), so not sure what you mean by that 1.2 million limit per character?

You could make ~1.2Million credits selling everything of use you could make for a single player. Now you can make quite a bit more then that.

ToR now has piles and piles of crafting plans that are essentially useless to long-term players.

Like every other MMO with a crafting system, yes. You comment that you used to be able to make 55K-60K profit per augment, now you can only make 30K profit per augment. Before the patch, you could sell 4 augments per person, now you can sell 14. Forgetting the augment kits altogether that is an increase of ~200K credits of potential profit per player. Using your numbers, your earnings potential has increased with patch 1.3.

to answer your grinding explanation--I pretty much only have time to do dailies on any given day. Once I get the implants, ear, and relics with those daily comms (only the ear left to go), I will focus more on HM and bosses and such. Which...you still have to do them over, several times, to get something for your class--or if you get some "junk," pay the cost to rip out the one mod that is somewhat useful for your class...then trash the piece as it probably can't be used for your comps, either (class limits).

You choose to do the only grinding in the game over doing anything that requires any form of skill whatsoever. You don't want to gear up, you don't want to do anything at all that requires any skill, you sound like you want to be playing a dumbed down multiplayer game, not a MMO.

Don't get why people think that such end game find the gear "content" is a necessary mode for MMO play, but there you go. If you don't believe me, but want to see how well that can be done without the gear grind, then keep your eyes open on Aug 28.

Yep, there it is. You want to avoid anything with a challenge, have a shockingly limited set of abilities and ignore long term improvement of your character. Guild Wars or Street Fighter, sound like they would be more your type of game. Both of them require skill to play, but given the extreme limitations on an individual character not too much of a learning curve.

Far too much of that in this game, which is the main reason I tend not to bother with the content that requires a dedicated 1 hour or so of your time to complete something, with a group.

So the best way to go is to complain about how you choose to do the grinding and not anything that requires skill? Go run some HM EC and get back to me about how this is a no skill grind fest. It isn't like that is approaching extremely difficult by any means, but you complaining about the skill required when you refuse to do the content that is designed for it is somewhat comical.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Augments.

Augments.

Augments.

Before you could craft 4 pieces of gear that you crit on that was worth people buying if you were synth/arms and four augments to sell. Now you can craft 14 augment kits *AND* 14 augments. There has been a *very* sharp increase in how much you can craft and sell to people.


No idea why others keep saying this.

Here's a simple fact: 90% of your craftable gear, meaning actual armor pieces--is largely valueless.

That is my point. Why has no one responded to this comment? We could always craft augments. They were always very useful, and now a bit more valuable.

However--again--the interest in crafted gear (read: armor sets) is essentially nill. Yeah, they are good for leveling through, at which point you just grab a level 11 set and push it until the end.

so we're not really crafting armor so much as we're crafting augments. that's it. You guys keep agreeing with me, but never seem to recognize how different that is. Why augment a crafted set that has no bonuses like the end game comm sets? It makes no sense to do that now.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Augments.




Yep, there it is. You want to avoid anything with a challenge, have a shockingly limited set of abilities and ignore long term improvement of your character. Guild Wars or Street Fighter, sound like they would be more your type of game. Both of them require skill to play, but given the extreme limitations on an individual character not too much of a learning curve.



So the best way to go is to complain about how you choose to do the grinding and not anything that requires skill? Go run some HM EC and get back to me about how this is a no skill grind fest. It isn't like that is approaching extremely difficult by any means, but you complaining about the skill required when you refuse to do the content that is designed for it is somewhat comical.


yeah--you clearly don't understand the differences.

whether or not a play a HM or solo through quests--I'm still doing the same thing. No diference, whatsoever. every role the same. We all have the same skill sets, each class has, essentially ONE BUILD that is ever acceptable.

If you think this somehow requires more skill than a game like Guild Wars, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. There is one rotation for each class in ToR. that is it. Good luck trying to convince anyone that has spent time in GW that this is the case.

I like games were skill determines skill; not where gear determines your usefulness. Again--I can do these HM--I have, they are no problem--they are just much longer, protracted instances of the same thing, that require me to focus on the group all at once. Can't answer the phone, cook dinner, etc. this is the time I have. Sorry you don't get that.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
Here's a simple fact: 90% of your craftable gear, meaning actual armor pieces--is largely valueless.

Which is the exact same as it is in every other MMO with crafting. It is *not* a TOR issue, it is a MMO one.

That is my point. Why has no one responded to this comment?

It is akin to complaining that you need to be online to play a MMO. Would that really warrant a response?

whether or not a play a HM or solo through quests--I'm still doing the same thing. No diference, whatsoever. every role the same. We all have the same skill sets, each class has, essentially ONE BUILD that is ever acceptable.

Have you so much as looked at a screenshot of the game? Or do you just read patch notes and create rants?

I'll use one class, Inquisitor. For *viable* end game content there is a total of *eight* different builds you can use, on each path every tree is viable on its' own plus both paths have viable hybrid specs.

There is one rotation for each class in ToR.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about to put it mildly. I'd say Guild Wars is a good fit for you, dumbed down mechanics to an extreme level.

Again--I can do these HM--I have

Which ops have you cleared? Because based on your comments you have absolutely no clue about anything involving the end game. One build? One rotation? Name me an ops boss and a class and tell me what this singular rotation is. I'd love to be able to post it around to get some good laughs from people who actually play the game.

If you don't have the time to devote to learning the mechanics and playing the end game content, a game like Guild Wars should be great for you. The mechanics are so simplified it is very easy to just pick up and play. Street Fighter would be another alternative for you. Simple mechanics that are easy to grasp and far quicker then even Guild Wars. All of the games we have discussed require skill, one of them simply requires significantly greater understanding of mechanics and quite frankly you have no clue about them and don't seem to have any desire to learn either.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
It is akin to complaining that you need to be online to play a MMO. Would that really warrant a response?

wut? This is what I said: An original mehcanic of the game has now been reduced by 90% of it's original, and functional, utility.

You say that this is the same as "needing to be online to play an online game?" Are you even reading what I'm typing, here?

Perhaps you posted that response to the wrong comment? I'll assume the latter.

Have you so much as looked at a screenshot of the game? Or do you just read patch notes and create rants?

I'll use one class, Inquisitor. For *viable* end game content there is a total of *eight* different builds you can use, on each path every tree is viable on its' own plus both paths have viable hybrid specs.



You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about to put it mildly. I'd say Guild Wars is a good fit for you, dumbed down mechanics to an extreme level.



Which ops have you cleared? Because based on your comments you have absolutely no clue about anything involving the end game. One build? One rotation? Name me an ops boss and a class and tell me what this singular rotation is. I'd love to be able to post it around to get some good laughs from people who actually play the game.

If you don't have the time to devote to learning the mechanics and playing the end game content, a game like Guild Wars should be great for you. The mechanics are so simplified it is very easy to just pick up and play. Street Fighter would be another alternative for you. Simple mechanics that are easy to grasp and far quicker then even Guild Wars. All of the games we have discussed require skill, one of them simply requires significantly greater understanding of mechanics and quite frankly you have no clue about them and don't seem to have any desire to learn either.



difference is this:

no one is looking for someone with particular skill sets, particular roles in this game (outside what is expected of their class) they are looking for GEARED PLAYERS. period.

That is the request, that is it. each class has 3 tiers, and out of those 3 tiers of skills, there are about 2 or 3 builds to work with, what your class could ever do, effectively. Even so, the class has the same skills, more or less, to run those 2 or 3 builds.

A game that depends on "DPS charts" lmfao!


button mashing rotations across 6-8 skills, waiting for this hilarious "global cooldown" = skill?



sorry, your analogy is weak. simple fact is that a single player like street fighter actually does have more strategy and skill permutations, from one player to the next, than does this cookie cutter MMO.

I can only assume that your user name, bespeaks of you, and pretty much locks your perception of this game into something "that can do no wrong." It is nothing new, sadly. What you defend as simply "that's just what an MMO is," is absolutely nothing that an MMO has to be.

Take your head out of the sand. There is a lot I like about this game, as I've said, and I never wanted to be drawn into this...."defense" of a fucking game . Only because you started to, I don't know...insult me? based on the fact that I understand that there is not one singular model for how these joke MMO games should exist.

lemme guess--you've never even played any of these games which you use as a counterargument? Just a wee stab at populism, to defend lack of outside experience and a cherished childhood memory? (the Star Wars universe: already long, long ago ruined by sub-par content)


I like this game. I mentioned what annoys me about the updates, and the duplicitous announcements form the devs abolut how certain updates have "improved" certain mechanics--then they most certainly have not from certain perspectives--and you go tell me to play Street Fighter?

LMFAO, brah.

seriously.

 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
An original mehcanic of the game has now been reduced by 90% of it's original, and functional, utility.

This is the same as crafting in every other MMO that has it. Very clearly unlike yourself, I speak from many years of experience.

no one is looking for someone with particular skill sets, particular roles in this game (outside what is expected of their class) they are looking for GEARED PLAYERS. period.

Wrong. My guild takes skilled players and carries them through a lockout worth of HMs to get them geared. We are not the only guild that operates as such. We run 16 man HM Ops because it drops more gear to get players that are worth while what they need. This is not uncommon. You have clearly demonstrated that you understand almost nothing about MMOs, so you certainly wouldn't be one of the candidates we would bring along.

A game that depends on "DPS charts" lmfao!

I put these next to each to demonstrate your profound ignorance. A DPS chart is a much better indicator of where problems lie with mechanics. If you want a game that requires almost no skill, where someone missing one out of every 5 GCDs is no big deal, play a game like GuildWars with a very laid back and casual friendly mechanic built in.

That is the request, that is it. each class has 3 tiers, and out of those 3 tiers of skills, there are about 2 or 3 builds to work with, what your class could ever do, effectively.

Spell out these limitations. I keep asking you, you say there is one build and one precise rotation so spell it out. If the game is so incredibly limited, you should very easily be able to handle this simple request. I even narrowed it down for you, just the exacting rotation you would use for one precise build on a single Ops boss. If what you say has a shred of truth, this should be trivial.

sorry, your analogy is weak. simple fact is that a single player like street fighter actually does have more strategy and skill permutations, from one player to the next, than does this cookie cutter MMO.

You can't list a single Op spec or rotation and you think for an instant you understand MMO strategy? Really?

I can only assume that your user name, bespeaks of you, and pretty much locks your perception of this game into something "that can do no wrong."

You are new around here, I've been playing MMOs for a lot longer then you have been on these forums. We have had very many discussion about many different games over the years. What you are attacking has nothing to do with the fact that this is a Star Wars themed MMO, nothing in the slightest. You are attacking core MMO gameplay mechanics. If you don't like them, go play something else. It truly is that simple. People like you take good games and do to them what was done to WoW through your complaints.

lemme guess--you've never even played any of these games which you use as a counterargument?

Want to meet me online for some SF? I'm no match for SickBeast, but I can hold my own. GuildWars didn't hold my attention long, the game is dumbfoundingly simplistic and shockingly limited. For a F2P MMO it isn't bad, but I'm not a fan of F2P style MMOs. The big difference is, I don't go crap on their threads about how the game needs to change to fill some miniscule niche.

Just a wee stab at populism, to defend lack of outside experience and a cherished childhood memory? (the Star Wars universe: already long, long ago ruined by sub-par content)

I've been using this online tag since the good old community BB setups back in the 80s.

I like this game.

Let's see, you don't like the combat, you don't like the content, you don't like the classes, you don't like the talent trees and you don't like the crafting. I'm going to say that you don't like this game. That is perfectly fine, I can't stand GuildWars but several of my RL friends love it. I don't try to fool people though.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
GW is not, and never has been F2P. You don't seem to understand that model.

If you think it is simplisitc, that is because you didn't play it long enough. It is still more or less unmatched in amount and variety of PvP content (I'm not that much into PvP, honestly)

The simple fact is this: It is a game that is designed to equalize everyone in terms of gear, very early on. this way, you focus on what the game is truly about--designing your class build. There are somewhere on the order of 600+ skills to be found, all of which can be used in any number of ways for any class. This allows for an incomparable amount potential builds for each class. Meaning--just about any profession can essentially play any role you want it to, so long as you know what you are doing.

It takes time to get there, of course.

GW sucks for story--always has. I haven't played an MMO that does this nearly as well as ToR.

The difference between the two models is that in this traditional model which you claim to be the only valid model for MMo is that you are limited by skills, by a handful of builds, and once you learn your little rotation, you are essentially defined by your gear. I haven't really seen anyone deny this.

With a GW model--gear and level is pretty much thrown out. What you're left with is creativity in creating a general, or often highly specific build that sometimes will only work with a complementary set of very specific builds from other players. In these instances--nothing really matches GuildWars for teamwork and customization.

To think that Guild Wars requires no skill is to admit that you haven't really played it.

But yes--I do like ToR. I mentioned some things that bother, you came after me for no particular reason, and I responded to try and clarify what I mean.

It's just a game, bro. Do I need to apologize for not appreciating your beloved endless cycle to get gear to play the same HM and OPs to get better gear to play that HM and OPs a little faster to get better gear to do it again, and again, and again? Running the same exact build every single time?
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
yes, I do like the idea and in the end--would prefer the use of augment kits. My criticism, though--is that for the best gear, there is no real reason, now, to get anything but campaign/black hole, columni, etc. These are the only pieces that offer set bonuses. Before, the second tier bonus for a full set of these was so meager as to be trumped by ignoring those and using crafted, augmented chest/legs/head. (you couldn't augment the hands and feet, anyway) This allowed you real, individual customization.

There's almost never been a good reason to use anything but the set gear. With the possible exception of using 4 set pieces and 1 off set piece (or the instances where the 4set is not thought to be valuable), almost everyone I played with just used re-modded columi/rakata/blackhole gear anyway, and it's pretty much been that way since release. Whether you consider augmented gear to be of greater value than your 4 set is simply a matter of circumstance, and different for each class.

I fail to see how finally being able to use your choice of endgame armorings in almost any gear appearance you wish is a step backwards.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
There's almost never been a good reason to use anything but the set gear. With the possible exception of using 4 set pieces and 1 off set piece (or the instances where the 4set is not thought to be valuable), almost everyone I played with just used re-modded columi/rakata/blackhole gear anyway, and it's pretty much been that way since release. Whether you consider augmented gear to be of greater value than your 4 set is simply a matter of circumstance, and different for each class.

I fail to see how finally being able to use your choice of endgame armorings in almost any gear appearance you wish is a step backwards.


True, it is a step in the right direction, but they did it poorly. Instead of just allowing campaign gear/war hero armorings to contain the set bonus, they should have applied this to the armorings for Tionese/Columi/Rakata. I heard people say on their forums this "The devs already explained why they can't do this" which is not correct. They could have doen that, but they didn't. There was no technical difficulty with it.

Much like how you can trade a BM shell (with NOTHING in it) for a Warhero + Rated Comms. There was no reason they could not have done the the set bonus on Tionese/Columi/Rakata. The worst part is that they tied the armoring to the the specific slot, but didn't put the bonus on on. The arguement is that if the set bonus did not transfer on T/C/R then why bind it to that specific slot? Seemed petty and short sighted.

Additionally, I still cannot give M1-4X (Droid) my left over Columi armorings, because Droid parts don't see 'Feet, Gloves, Pants, etc...' so my companion (not a huge deal, I never solo anyway) cannot get better than the the daily armoring mods. with the exception of the 25 (Rakata) grade armorings from NM EV or KP. But since those are worth 500K - 750K a pop, they are worth far more as the Belt/Bracers item than they are on your companion. I suppose if you had 50+ million credits, you could get around the companion armoring restriction by throwing money and time in it, but it is a poor choice of spending. I have about 10 million credits, and I wouldn't dream of spending or waiting weeks to gather enough L25 non specific armorings to fit my droid with.

I definitely fault Bioware for the T/C/R armoring lock downs. It only makes sense if they attached the set bonus to them.

In regards to money, making money is very easy in this game. In fact, the only reason I only have 10 million is because I don't even 'try' to actively make money. I am sure if I actually cared and made it a goal, I'd be well into the 100 million credits range. But to what end?

Economy is fine and booming better than ever. I can actually BUY stuff on the AH now. Useful stuff. Before the merge, the only thing on the AH was crappy overprice L49 stuff. Although, there the Veractiy L49 implants augmented were very close to a BIS piece, at least, IMO. They had low primary stat and endurance, but a heck of a lot of defence/shield/accuracy and your choice of an augment.

Right now BIS for Bracers & Belt is NOT Campaign Augmented. Rakata Amoring + Black Hole Mod Augmented is quite a bit better. Surprised, actually, that they overlooked this.

Edit **

Just wanted to add that while some things really annoy me about Bioware and their implementation, they have done a lot of things right. The new group finder is actually really good. It has allowed many in my guild to take gearing up into their own hands. I am also pretty impressed with the PUGs I have joined. 90% of the time I have been with some decent players and in a few times some outstanding players. There is no reason that someone cannot be full columi+ level gear within a week of turning L50 and in fact, you ought to be higher with some of those pieces. Heck, you can practicly BUY your way to great gear now. As Ben said... Gearing up is easy in this game.
 
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