**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

[the unknown]

Watched the video because a group from my old DAoC guild are going to play it. They've been talking about it for two years, but based on the video I don't get why. The more I see of the game play the less attracted to it I am. Five minutes of boring "multi-player dialog" followed by a cut-scene transition into a linear instance. Wow, look at that set-piece ship crash in the background! Isn't this exciting?

If I blink my eyes really fast I can't tell what game this is. There's a guy with a glowy sword, a cloth-wearing squishy who pulls aggro when she shouldn't, and a stealther who hides behind a rock when the fight begins. Which way is Ogrimmar?

And maybe I'm just being a nabob of negativity at this point, but multi-player conversations with quest-giving NPCs? That's the next big thing? Meh, think I'll go play a UO freeshard or reroll in Camelot again.

You're complaining that the game has FEATURES? What's an RPG supposed to have then? No dialogue, no classes, no cinematics? You guys are so funny complaining that there's dialogue and story, actions with consequences. Anyone that complains about that is just looking for a few buttons to push for a few hours.

 

[Cogman]

You're complaining that the game has FEATURES? What's an RPG supposed to have then? No dialogue, no classes, no cinematics? You guys are so funny complaining that there's dialogue and story, actions with consequences. Anyone that complains about that is just looking for a few buttons to push for a few hours.

He is complaining that the "features" are pointless ones. We expect all that he described to be a part of RPGs, so why are they touting them as these huge game changing features? It is like a new hamburger chain opening up today and saying "Our burgers use a new revolutionary meat called 'beef'!".

 

[Pr0d1gy]

He is complaining that the "features" are pointless ones. We expect all that he described to be a part of RPGs, so why are they touting them as these huge game changing features? It is like a new hamburger chain opening up today and saying "Our burgers use a new revolutionary meat called 'beef'!".

Ever head of Angus? lol

 

[the unknown]

He is complaining that the "features" are pointless ones. We expect all that he described to be a part of RPGs, so why are they touting them as these huge game changing features? It is like a new hamburger chain opening up today and saying "Our burgers use a new revolutionary meat called 'beef'!".

Nothing has to be particularly "game changing" to be great if it is executed well. See: ipod, WoW, etc. And I don't think story, cinematics, and actions with consequences are "pointless."
I can see the crowd that hates that its an MMO, but if you others just don't like RPGs I'm thinking.

 

[Cogman]

Nothing has to be particularly "game changing" to be great if it is executed well. See: ipod, WoW, etc. And I don't think story, cinematics, and actions with consequences are "pointless."
I can see the crowd that hates that its an MMO, but if you others just don't like RPGs I'm thinking.

You sort of missed my point. By pointless, I mean they aren't features, they are expected attributes that are being hyped as features.

iPods were popular because they introduced easy to use interfaces, legal music retrievals, and decent HD sizes. WoW was widely popular because of the company that backed it. It was one of the first MMOs made by a large well respected company.

You see, there are two factors you need to become popular, Being innovative or being popular. I've rarely seen "me too"s become the defacto standard.

 

[waggy]

i wish lucas would put a new space combat sim. but then those don't have monthly charges (ohhh shit shouldn't have givin him the idea).

bu this does look good. odds are i will get it. i read the quest and txt. well unless it starts off get me 90 knoll eyes.

 

[Markbnj]

You're complaining that the game has FEATURES? What's an RPG supposed to have then? No dialogue, no classes, no cinematics? You guys are so funny complaining that there's dialogue and story, actions with consequences. Anyone that complains about that is just looking for a few buttons to push for a few hours.

If I see a commercial for a car and I don't like the way they did the instrument cluster, are you going to accuse me of thinking cars shouldn't have instrument clusters?

Whatever. The last thing I have time for is a spirited dialog with the Star Wars fan club. I've been playing RPGs online since British Legends on Compuserve. I have a sense of what I think they should have in them, and according to that sense everything that has come after WoW has been overproduced and soulless. Rather than a large and engaging world we get more gimmicks and tightly managed experiences. I guess some people's idea of a fun time is exploring a forest, and for others it's a trip to Knott's Berry World.

 

[gorcorps]

Nothing has to be particularly "game changing" to be great if it is executed well. See: ipod, WoW, etc. And I don't think story, cinematics, and actions with consequences are "pointless."
I can see the crowd that hates that its an MMO, but if you others just don't like RPGs I'm thinking.

If you don't think the ipod was game changing then you're just kidding yourself. MP3 players used to be a PITA to use and incredibly bit (I remember the Nomad being the first HDD player I saw). The ipod took that and put on an easy to understand control method no bigger than a deck of cards. That was huge for the time.

 

[smackababy]

If you don't think the ipod was game changing then you're just kidding yourself. MP3 players used to be a PITA to use and incredibly bit (I remember the Nomad being the first HDD player I saw). The ipod took that and put on an easy to understand control method no bigger than a deck of cards. That was huge for the time.

I agree with that. Sure there were MP3 players before and after, but the 2nd gen iPod (because the first gen was Mac only) was a huge game changer. WoW as well. No MMO did what Blizzard had done before (or after) WoW. Played an MMO before WoW? I know at UO's peak it had 300,000 active subscribers. WoW sold more copies than that on its release day.

 

[zinfamous]

If I see a commercial for a car and I don't like the way they did the instrument cluster, are you going to accuse me of thinking cars shouldn't have instrument clusters?

Whatever. The last thing I have time for is a spirited dialog with the Star Wars fan club. I've been playing RPGs online since British Legends on Compuserve. I have a sense of what I think they should have in them, and according to that sense everything that has come after WoW has been overproduced and soulless. Rather than a large and engaging world we get more gimmicks and tightly managed experiences. I guess some people's idea of a fun time is exploring a forest, and for others it's a trip to Knott's Berry World.

haha, I like your posts and I think they're spot on. I agree that the crashing spaceship was just a set piece--how cool will it "appear" on a fifth play through? Much of it is the same old same old--but what is important to note is that this is Bioware and as we now know--this could go one of two ways: KotOR/ME1, or DA2. There really is nothing original about KoTOR or ME1, but most people agree they are both incredibly fantastic games that do well established things very, very well. DA2 does something "new" (for Bioware), and most fans agree that it is a failure.

ToR is something that I will have to see through a beta or free trial whether or not I will like it. Of course--a subscription fee would ensure that I never like it, much less consider it.

One thing I did like in that video--the saboteur taking down that tower to cause some chaos amongst the enemy. Not sure if that is another set piece, or one example of abilities that let you interact with the environment in certain ways (assuming such interactable pieces are around) to affect outcomes--whether you choose to or not. That would be cool--much better than that one Jedi's skill which appears to summon up rock chunks from the ground to hurl at people. That would be much better if such a skill were limited by what was actually hurlable.


I also think "a squishy cloth-wearing toon" should be able to hold or pull aggro, if the class is capable of it. On one hand, people will complain that it's the same old MMO with new skin--might as well play LotRO; and on the other--complain that some holy rule about the MMO world has been completely shattered and is thus NOT COOL! Well--which is it? DO people honestly want something a little different, with potentially novel class designs and strategies, or do they truly want the same old thing with lightsabers?

 

[BoberFett]

He is complaining that the "features" are pointless ones. We expect all that he described to be a part of RPGs, so why are they touting them as these huge game changing features? It is like a new hamburger chain opening up today and saying "Our burgers use a new revolutionary meat called 'beef'!".

That was kind of my impression of the whole video. I laughed when he talked about the crashing ship. Really? A pre-scripted event in an instance is really that exciting?

And then the player roles, wow, what a novel concept. Crowd control, tank, DPS, healer. It's like nothing I've ever seen before. Amazing.

Meh, Bioware is overrated.

I guess some people's idea of a fun time is exploring a forest, and for others it's a trip to Knott's Berry World.

 

[BoberFett]

i wish lucas would put a new space combat sim. but then those don't have monthly charges (ohhh shit shouldn't have givin him the idea).

bu this does look good. odds are i will get it. i read the quest and txt. well unless it starts off get me 90 knoll eyes.

An MMO space sim could easily support a large subscription crowd. Look at EVE.

A properly done space combat game that was Star Wars themed could be huge. Lots of people who played SWG were chomping at the bit for exactly that, but SOE dropped the ball long before the space expansion came out.

 

[Anomaly1964]

I gotta say, for all the complaining about MMOs, regardless of the "backdrop," if "you" have the answer, gather a team of programmers, get the game going and "do it right."

Otherwise quit complaining...

 

[Cogman]

I gotta say, for all the complaining about MMOs, regardless of the "backdrop," if "you" have the answer, gather a team of programmers, get the game going and "do it right."

Otherwise quit complaining...

"do it right" is less profitable than MMOs. Thus it will never be done. You can't just slap together a programming/design team and then make a game based on some copyrighted material.

For anything more than a 2d game you'll potentially need some deep pockets.

 

[Anomaly1964]

The answer is less profitable than to "do it right" Thus it will never be done. You can't just slap together a programming/design team and then make a game based on some copyrighted material.

For anything more than a 2d game you'll potentially need some deep pockets.

Well again, if you KNOW YOU GOT IT RIGHT, then you should have no problem convincing the DEEP POCKETS to invest in you...

 

[Cogman]

Well again, if you KNOW YOU GOT IT RIGHT, then you should have no problem convincing the DEEP POCKETS to invest in you...

WRONG. That isn't how big business works. You give a business the option

A. Take a route that has been taken by others with pretty good success.

or

B. Do my idea that is completely unproven and my way of doing things. But I think it is a great idea.

Which route do you think they will take? 99/100 it will be option A. Do you ever wonder why we see pretty standard genres? FPS, MMO, RPG, RTS. Games fit nicely into their own little boxes and innovation comes in very small spurts. It is EXTREMELY rare for a new genre to form.

Convincing someone to invest in your idea is hardly an easy thing to do. Take hollywood for example. Some say "Oh, there are no original ideas left in hollywood." This is actually false. Every year, 1000's upon 1000's of original script ideas come forward. Yet, very few are actually made into movies. However, the chances of a semi-successful movie getting a second, third, reboot is extremely high. Why is that? because they are tried and true and almost guaranteed to have some sort of return.

Why do you think we have 5000 versions of madden football? Or 300 different expansion sets for the sims series? All adding little to nothing to the gameplay. Yet, a truly original game idea is almost never tried.

The whole "Oh, you can't complain because you haven't changed the scene" argument is BS. Things happen and change because people complain, not because everyone lives in happy la la land.

 

[cronos]

I gotta say, for all the complaining about MMOs, regardless of the "backdrop," if "you" have the answer, gather a team of programmers, get the game going and "do it right."

Otherwise quit complaining...

This is not the thread for that though. This is a thread about SW:TOR so it should talk about SW:TOR and not some other game.

(and apparently you're the OP so you should know what this thread is about, now I'm confused why you would say something like that )

 

[Markbnj]

That was kind of my impression of the whole video. I laughed when he talked about the crashing ship. Really? A pre-scripted event in an instance is really that exciting?

And then the player roles, wow, what a novel concept. Crowd control, tank, DPS, healer. It's like nothing I've ever seen before. Amazing.

Yeah that was a big part of my reaction. He was all "Look at that ship! It just crashed into that tower and exploded" and like you I'm laughing... what? Same thing with that dialog sequence... interesting, but now many times are you going to want to go through that? Hopefully getting a certain outcome doesn't depend on the group responding in specific ways, because GL with that if it's a p/u group. "Blueberry!" "No, dammit, tell him 'I've seen worse than this'" "Blueberry!" "Gaaaaah"

But a big part of my underwhelmed reaction is just that I don't like the direction things have been going in. No help for that with the new mass market, I know, but give me a huge and dangerous world and keep the force-fed storyline to a minimum. Everyone knows you can't really do story in an MMO in any coherent way. Everyone experiences the world at different times, at different speeds, in different orders... it's not narrative. This trend toward canning up mini-tales in packaged replayable instances is lamentable. Create a big world, fill it with challenges, and let the players make their own stories. I miss the days of running into other groups in big dungeons, but then the last MMO I really was enthralled by was DAoC, and the standard for me is still EQ1 pre-Planes. How many games post-WoW have had the ability to keep a player's attention for years? I think people get in, get sick of killing mobs and running instances, find themselves in a smallish, linear world with little really new to see, and move on to the next thing.

 

[Arsinek]

Wrong.

And it isn't like Old Republic is innovative anyway. Sci-fi visuals doesn't change core gameplay mechanics.

Who cares if MMOs are fantasy based? What matters is the gameplay.

As a general rule, the less MMOs the better, but everyone sees WoW and thinks $$$.

Wrong.

I didnt say anything about gameplay. I said the less fantasy MMOs the better. Which is right.

And youre wrong the general rule is the more MMOs the better.

 

[gorcorps]

Wrong.

And it isn't like Old Republic is innovative anyway. Sci-fi visuals doesn't change core gameplay mechanics.

Who cares if MMOs are fantasy based? What matters is the gameplay.

As a general rule, the less MMOs the better, but everyone sees WoW and thinks $$$.

I would say the genre,locale and story makes quite a bit of difference. I don't like the fantasy genre much at all but because it's so popular I do play some at times. When I played Oblivion I modded it to take out some of the stupid things like the leveling monsters and such. Even all the mods couldn't save me from getting bored with it. Now Fallout 3 OTOH was great. You can say they're not the same game and I agree with you, but I think it's the difference between fantasy and post apocalyptic settings that MADE them different and I'd pick Fallout every time.

I say the theme of the game can make a huge difference.

 

[coloumb]

I'm just happy that there aren't orcs, elves, and dwarfs.

Not sure I like Smugglers healing - smugglers don't heal - they make drugs/spices, modify armor/weapons/technology, use dirty tactics to win battles, and have a high charisma value [wink wink nudge nudge]

Not sure how much you can change the core group formula - tank, healer, cc, dps.

Interesting take on the highest roll determines the dialogue - I doubt it'll affect the overall outcome of whatever you're doing. But it would be pretty cool if a random event spawned depending upon who speaks - though I doubt it'll affect the major storyline.

l'd personally like to see more "permanent phasing" in MMO's - once you kill a boss mob, you can't kill it again and you can't go back and help your friends kill it again because YOU already killed it.

 

[Soccerman06]

l'd personally like to see more "permanent phasing" in MMO's - once you kill a boss mob, you can't kill it again and you can't go back and help your friends kill it again because YOU already killed it.

That would make the game very bad, cant help your friends, cant kill stuff for loot, no replay value, bad bad bad.

 

[zerocool84]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckj6CnUXelk&feature=player_embedded

 

[Cogman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckj6CnUXelk&feature=player_embedded

Wow, that gameplay looks like crap. It is like they tried to combine Kotor's turn based system with an MMO and ended up with something that is akin to crappy stick figure animation.

 

[smackababy]

Wow, that gameplay looks like crap. It is like they tried to combine Kotor's turn based system with an MMO and ended up with something that is akin to crappy stick figure animation.

Looked just like other MMOs. Even the moves look like WoWs. They just have a charge, throw light saber, dual hit finisher. Even a kick I bet.